The genetic origin of Daunians

[Salento]

"Thraco-Illyrian" is a paradoxon. Bulgaria_IA or MBA plot far away from IA_Illyrians lol. There is nothing like "Thraco-Illyrians" .

… your opinion on the subject is one of many.

… three years ago I thought I knew what an Illyrian was, … though after reading many posts on the subject, it got really confusing, … it has become more difficult to define it.

[mount123]

… your opinion on the subject is one of many.

… three years ago I thought I knew what an Illyrian was, … though after reading many posts on the subject, it got really confusing, … it has become more difficult to define it.

It is not an "opinion" but rather a fact that has been attested by both archeology and genetics. Illyrians and Thracians are separate groups of people.

[Salento]

It is not an "opinion" but rather a fact that has been attested by both archeology and genetics. Illyrians and Thracians are separate groups of people.

I don't have an opinion about it, and I have not evaluated your facts to form an opinion :)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thraco-Illyrian

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians

[Salento]

"Thraco-Illyrian" is a paradoxon. Bulgaria_IA or MBA plot far away from IA_Illyrians lol. There is nothing like "Thraco-Illyrians" .

I just remembered :)
… not a paradox … from my old MTA results: Thracian and Illyrian share a chromosome segment:

[Illyria]

Not sure why it's difficult for some to understand that Illyrians and Thracians mixed in the South-Central Balkans. Thraco-Illyrian is a real thing. Yes, Proto-Illyrians and Proto-Thracians started in different homelands, but by the time they expanded south, they would have naturally met somewhere along today's Serbia, Kosova, Northern Albania, N. Macedonia, Northern Greece. It's not shocking that they would be genetically similar by the Iron Age, maybe even sooner around the LBA collapse.

We don't know much about their languages, but some scholars and historians think they could have been as similar to eachother as Czech and Slovak, or Spanish and Portuguese. Some Illyrian and Thracian words are of the same root but have different endings.

Ancient groups like the Dardani, Bryges, Enchelae, Paeoni, etc, were recorded as both Illyrian and Thracian by different contemporary historians, and most modern historians say they were Thraco-Illyrians too. Given the location of these ancient groups in the South-Central Balkans, in between the Illyrian and Thracian spheres, and what historians have called them in antiquity, it seems that they definitely did intermix and were genetically similar. There are plenty of J2b2 and E-V13 samples that overlap or plot close to each other

[torzio]

Not sure why it's difficult for some to understand that Illyrians and Thracians mixed in the South-Central Balkans. Thraco-Illyrian is a real thing. Yes, Proto-Illyrians and Proto-Thracians started in different homelands, but by the time they expanded south, they would have naturally met somewhere along today's Serbia, Kosova, Northern Albania, N. Macedonia, Northern Greece. It's not shocking that they would be genetically similar by the Iron Age, maybe even sooner around the LBA collapse.

We don't know much about their languages, but some scholars and historians think they could have been as similar to eachother as Czech and Slovak, or Spanish and Portuguese. Some Illyrian and Thracian words are of the same root but have different endings.

Ancient groups like the Dardani, Bryges, Enchelae, Paeoni, etc, were recorded as both Illyrian and Thracian by different contemporary historians, and most modern historians say they were Thraco-Illyrians too. Given the location of these ancient groups in the South-Central Balkans, in between the Illyrian and Thracian spheres, and what historians have called them in antiquity, it seems that they definitely did intermix and were genetically similar. There are plenty of J2b2 and E-V13 samples that overlap or plot close to each other

its all about timing ..............in modern serbia -kosovo area, the Thracians and macedonians arrived there before the illyrians did ..........so ok one can say there maybe was a Thraco-illyrian...but Romans settled there as well in large numbers as it was a very fertile area

in the north in western Dacia , the celts and Illyrians mixed firstly with the Dacians before the Getae-Thracians arrived later ...............if you want to call this mix Thraco-illyrian as well, ok ............but the term in both areas is irrelevant


Paeonians have always been a mix people of Dardani and Macedonians descent ( they seem to always have been a vassal of the macedonians )

[torzio]

I just remembered :)
… not a paradox … from my old MTA results: Thracian and Illyrian share a chromosome segment:

13313 has been referred to, as a Liburnian ( which also means , mixed with adriatic italic people )

[Salento]

13313 has been referred to, as a Liburnian ( which also means , mixed with adriatic italic people )

… another chrom, … equal amount of Minoan, Mycenaean, Tumulus Culture, and Venetic.

I’m not sure what population the Tumulus Culture could be a representative of in an Apulian context.

[Jovialis]

"Some scholars see Tumulus groups from southern Germany in this context as corresponding to a community that shared an extinct Indo-European linguistic entity, such as the hypothetical Italo-Celtic group that was ancestral to Italic and Celtic.[1][2] This particular hypothesis, however, conflicts with suggestions by other Indo-Europeanists. For instance, David W. Anthony suggests that Proto-Italic (and perhaps also Proto-Celtic) speakers could have entered Northern Italy at an earlier stage, from the east (e.g., the Balkan/Adriatic region).[3]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumu...C3%BCrttemberg.

[Salento]

…maybe Ancestral to Italic and … … thanks Jovialis!

[Hawk]

The Daunians were clearly Illyrians who crossed the Adriatic and mixed with native Italic people, the J2b2-L283 was an attestation to that.

[Jovialis]

The Daunians were clearly Illyrians who crossed the Adriatic and mixed with native Italic people, the J2b2-L283 was an attestation to that.

I think it is probable that they could have crossed the Adriatic, but I think it is more likely they mixed with people with large minoan-like components, rather than Italics.