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Thread: The Aryan-Semitic link

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    The Aryan-Semitic link

    Studying history, I realize the rise of the IndoEuropeans and the Semites is closely linked.
    To begin with, we have to say that Europe and the Middle East have always been related.
    Europe was colonized from the MidEast during the end of Ice Ages and the beggining of the Neolithic.
    They also share a lot of mt-DNA Haplogroups. U, K, J and H are both present at both sides of the Mediterranean. Even though each region has its own subclades.
    Y-DNA MidEast Haplogroup J and Native European I are also closest relatives, even though I was largely substituted by unrelated R.

    Going to the actual IndoEuropeans(IEs) and Semites. The point that makes them similar is tha date of their rise. Around 2300 BC.
    In Europe they reach Germany at that time, and Sargon of Akkad, a Semite, creates the first ever empire in Mesopotamia. This was the beggining of a domination in their respective lands that continues to these days.
    We know that IEs were large distance horse riders, and Semites were nomadic tribes reported to be around Mesopotamia, causing ocasional border trouble or migrating peacefully.

    The similar date is not the only coincidence.
    Both were nomadic peoples. And the common point between Sargon creating the first empire, and IEs traveling(connecting) long distances with horses is obvious:
    Uniting large chunks of land.

    This makes me think both were part of the same civilizational change. One that involved more globalization, more metal working, a higher degree of economic complexity, social estratification and cultural changes that later will evolve into pre-classical paganism.

    The Biblic history of the Prophet Abraham, which is set around 2000 BC. Describe Abraham's tribe as travelling long distances, From Iraq to Egypt. And receiving important tributes from other peoples, which suggest the were kind of an important tribe.
    These is again similar to IEs, which were long distance travellers and highly succesful.

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    It would be helpful to clarify the "Semite" part. Northern Semites (Jews, Assyrians, Druze, and Arabized peoples of the Fertile Crescent and Levant) are indeed close to Europeans because they have admixture other than Basal Eurasian. They have "Unknown Hunter-Gatherer" ancestry, plus usually at least a little Ancient North Eurasian. Both of these tie them to Europe. Iranians to the east, who are Indo-Europeans, have a similar pattern, but with more ANE and less of the other 2.

    Southern Semites, who inhabit the mountains and desert in Yemen, Oman, and southern Saudi Arabia are not close to Europeans at all. They have little non-Basal Eurasian admixture and they even look very different from their neighbors who speak standard Arabic.

    It is clear that northern Semites were descended from some tribe of hunter-gatherers with links to Europe who then intermarried with Basal Eurasians.

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    Neolithic Europe was colonized by people from Turkey, which where genetically distant from Levantines(Natufians) and Iranian Hunter Gatherers.

    While Anatolian Hunter Gatherers contributed to today's European ancestry, Natufians contributed ancestry to today's Middle Easterns, but not so much to Europeans. Iranian Hunter Gatherers contributed their ancestry to toady's Middle Easterns with an extend to India, but not to Europeans.

    They where 3 different populations.

    The Yamnaja peoples who are thought to be the bringers of Indoeuropean/Aryan culture in Europe are related to Eastern Hunter Gatherers/Siberian Hunter Gatherers, Caucasus Hunter gatherers and partly Neolithic Farmers.

    Semites where a late development in history and are not a separated genetic group or share a special common ancestor in the past, but share a unique and simple mythology, which founded the development of today's dominant religions.
    There are Semitic groups which are becoming a unique genetic group through the ages by marriage rules, Jews for example which also share special lines of female ancestors.

    Indoeuropean/Aryan tribes/ethnic groups share a complex and open minded mythology, which evolved over the centuries and absorbed local traditions of conquered and neighbor tribes, this is very distant from Semitic view of religion and origin of mankind.
    In that sense Indoeuropean/Aryian culture and mythology is more similar to Ancient Mesopotamia, Hittites, Aztecs or modern India.
    I would suspect an east African and Arabian origin of Semitic Culture and Religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mmiikkii View Post
    Studying history, I realize the rise of the IndoEuropeans and the Semites is closely linked.
    You are absolutely right.

    << Proto-Indo-European Homeland >>

    Ancient pre-Yamnayan paternal R1b migrations, the Balto-Slavic WHG, Finnic EHG & Kurdic-Oghur Farmers of the Middle East are unified in just 1 ethnic group: the Chuvash people. The migration pattern corresponds to the hybrid Indo-European model by Johannes Krause.

    The 23rd chromosome (autosome) of the Chuvash correlates with the Iraqi Arabs:

    This pattern follows the mating network of Y-Dna R1b with mtDna HV2. Similarities in language and ethnocultural customs complete the ethnohistorical picture.

    << Chuvash-Kurdish lexical parallels & Subartu (Kurdic-Oghur) Identity >>

    These lexical parallels play an important role in the formation of the Chuvash people. Subartu may have been in the general sphere of influence of the Hurrians. There are various alternate theories associating the ancient Subartu with one or more modern cultures found in the region, including Armenian, Kurdish, and Turkic. Some scholars, such as Harvard Professor Mehrdad Izady, have identified Subartu with the current Kurdish tribe of Zibaris inhabiting the northern ring around Mosul up to Hakkari in Turkey. But, Montclair State University Professor H. Mark Hubey explained that the word "Subartu" is a Turkic name in ANE (Cambridge Ancient Near East) series of books: - "Name of the country, or people, known as “Subar”/ “Subir”/ “Subartu” [ANE-I-2:733]. The mountain tribes were named “Su” (in Turkish: Water, River, Lake) people. Turkic “Sabirs” / “Suvash” / “Chuvash” comes from this and means “River People” i.e. “Suwar” or “Suwer”. The turbulent tribesmen of the Zagros mountains such as the “Turukku” were defeated by the Assyrian Adan-Nirari [ANE-II-2:274]. The “Turukku” were the peoples of the land of “Subarians” [ANE-II-2:276]. The warlike race of “Turukkians”, which lived on the slopes of Zagros and entered into conflict with Hammurabi himself probably belonged to the Hurrian family according to standard history [ANE-II-1:22]."

    Despite a large number of common vocabulary in the Chuvash and Germanic languages, the Chuvash language has quite a lot of words you can find a match in the Iranian languages or even just in a few of them, but the Chuvash-Kurdish lexical parallels are the most numerous.

    The ultimate origin of all farming populations (according to latest 322-publishings) may overlap in an area between Anatolia, Levant, Southern Caucasus and Iranian Zagros:

    French ancient historian and comparative mythologist Bernard Sergent writes that the lithic assemblage of the first Kurgan culture in Ukraine (Sredni Stog II), with origins in the Volga and South Urals, recalls that of the Mesolithic-Neolithic sites to the east of the Caspian sea, Dam Dam Chesme II and the cave of Dzhebel.

    Thus, he places the roots of the Gimbutas' Kurgan cradle of Indo-Europeans in a more southern cradle, and adds that the Dzhebel material is related to a Paleolithic material of Northwestern Iran, the Zarzian culture, dated 10,000-8,500 BC, and in the more ancient Kebarian of the Near East. He concludes that more than 10,000 years ago the Indo-Europeans were a small people grammatically, phonetically and lexically close to Semitic-Hamitic populations of the Near East.

    Before Anatolian and Iranian farmers migrated northwards to mix with the WHG/EHG population of pre-Yamnaya Ukraine, Kurdic-Oghur R1b settlers also migrated into Italy (Villabruna man, 12.000 bc). They were the Western Hunter Gatherers (WHG) who now appear to be closest to Balto-Slavic people (compare Global 25 results) similar in their genetic make-up to the Loschbour man of Luxembourg (Y-Dna I2a, 6.000 bc). They had light to light-tanned skin and blue eyes. The origin of light skin and blue eyes also lies in the Kurdistan regions of Eastern Anatolia, Northern Iraq and Northwestern Iran where the paragroup of Y-Dna R1b can also be found. Living carriers of IJ* have been reported from the Iranian Plateau among Western Iranic speakers and are closely related to Ingush-Chechen and Semitic peoples.

    VERY IMPORTANT: only WHGs with Y-Dna I were the Slavic people who must have been of Kurdish (PIE) origin, too. "sûpas" in Kurdish and Slavic means 'thanks' for example. "slav" in Kurdish means 'hello', in Balto-Slavic it means 'glory', which in turn reflects Turkish "ulu" ('holy' -> hello). But it is also worth mentioning that Proto-Indo-European *bʰewgʰ- ('to curve, bend') corresponds to standard Chuvash 'pǝʷk-' ('to curve, bend').

    WHGs separated from eastern Eurasians around 40,000 BP, and from Ancient North Eurasians (ANE) around 24,000 BP.

    The Basque people is a remnant of these Kurdic-Oghur people. Linguistic evidence is provided by Yuri Tambovtsev (2003):

    Haplogroup K, the cousin of IJ, is also of Kurdish orign, but made a journey into Eurasia and Americas as Ancient North Siberians (ANS) and Ancient North Eurasians (ANE) with Y-Dna P1-> R-M2017 + Q-M242. The ancestor of haplogroup LT for example is K, too, but they never participated fully with the steppe peoples except two Hunnic samples with Y-Dna L from Hungary and Kazakhstan. Y-Dna N (Finno-Uralics) and Y-Dna O (East Asians) also stem from K. These long-distance kinships also exaplain that the nature of the Proto-Indo-European laryngeals find it's nearest parallel in a Salish language, Shuswap (Canada, B.C.). It was described by Aert Kuipers in 1974.

    The most important cultural aspect which connects Kurds, Iranian and Turkic peoples is the "goat kilim" and the shepherd's bagpipe, whis is unique to the Anatolian and Iranian Farmers. Indian Indo-Europeans can be divided into Rajputs (from ANS) and Dravidians.

    It is also most likely that the dark-skinned blue-eyed ancient individuals such as "La Braña man" and "Cheddar man" are used for fake propaganda to hide the pan-European Balto-Slavic identity of Old Europe. Unfortunately there is also complete silence on Qashqai genetics. The Qashqai people may represent the first non-Africans who evolved into proto-Kurds.

    0:00 / 3:22

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