To burn or not to burn: LBA/EIA Balkan case

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That's absolutely not true. That guy is a J2b2-L283 carrier who is closely associated with Rrenjet project and perhaps the other one as well. So, please don't bring his propaganda in this thread. His opinion, his barking like a dog in internet is not welcomed.

I do not really respect your opinion here.

Especially seeing how acceptiny you are when it comes to huban/asurg and how prone you are to paranoiac conspiracy thinking from whay i've seen in the past.

I was shocked to see you insinuate that the Albanian projects are somehow supressing E-v13 or minimising it artificially, when almost all you know about E-v13 comes from these projects, and we would have absolutely nothing without them.

Huban/Aspurg is one of the most deranged users on these forums, he constantly admits to not being objective, he constantly admits to his creepy rape fantasies and how this colours almost all of his "analysis", he constantly projects his insane and incorrect stereotypes about albanians in every comment he makes, he is one of the most ugly creeps I have witnessed on here, one of those weakling types that do school shootings and to see you have such a visceral reaction to Bruzmi ("a barking dog"), but casually accept this Huban/Aspurg guy as a "reasonable" commentary provider, all because he has convinced you of some non-existant J2b-l283 "consiparcy" agianst E-v13. This is so pathetic.
 
I do not really respect your opinion here.
Especially seeing how acceptiny you are when it comes to huban/asurg and how prone you are to paranoiac conspiracy thinking from whay i've seen in the past.
I was shocked to see you insinuate that the Albanian projects are somehow supressing E-v13 or minimising it artificially, when almost all you know about E-v13 comes from these projects, and we would have absolutely nothing without them.
Huban/Aspurg is one of the most deranged users on these forums, he constantly admits to not being objective, he constantly admits to his creepy rape fantasies and how this colours almost all of his "analysis", he constantly projects his insane and incorrect stereotypes about albanians in every comment he makes, he is one of the most ugly creeps I have witnessed on here, one of those weakling types that do school shootings and to see you have such a visceral reaction to Bruzmi ("a barking dog"), but casually accept this Huban/Aspurg guy as a "reasonable" commentary provider, all because he has convinced you of some non-existant J2b-l283 "consiparcy" agianst E-v13. This is so pathetic.

Not really, not true at all. I do not agree with Huban/Aspurg in many issues, you are bringing him just to cover up that guy which is extremely weird. But i agree on him on the case of Bruzmi. He is 100% correct in that and every E-V13 member will agree on that what that guy is trying to promote.

So one more time, please don't derail this thread with that kind of propaganda. Not from that guy. We all saw in that thread how pathetic that guy is and how obsessed he is. I am straight to the point guy, i am not a passive-aggressive type, hiding behind nicknames and insulting others in indirect ways.
 
Not really, not true at all. I do not agree with Huban/Aspurg in many issues, you are bringing him just to cover up that guy which is extremely weird. But i agree on him on the case of Bruzmi. He is 100% correct in that and every E-V13 member will agree on that what that guy is trying to promote.

So one more time, please don't derail this thread with that kind of propaganda. Not from that guy. We all saw in that thread how pathetic that guy is and how obsessed he is.

You are the one that derailed it. I posted interesting point by him which still stands about sardinian ev13, and you tried to discredit it and hand waive it by syaing he is J2b-L283, and trying to make demands that i not post his arguments.

Many of his counter points are perfectly valid. Sardinian ev13 is real and has tmrca dates of MBA-EIA.
 
You are the one that derailed it. I posted interesting point by him which still stands about sardinian ev13, and you tried to discredit it and hand waive it by syaing he is J2b-L283, and trying to make demands that i not post his arguments.
Many of his counter points are perfectly valid. Sardinian ev13 is real and has tmrca dates of MBA-EIA.

Oh yeah, do you agree with him and his attempts lumping all E-V13 and originating somewhere in modern Kosovo and were underclass/slaves?

You strike me as very fishy in all of this. This thread was created in good faith, so i don't want to see any more of your post or his.
 
Oh yeah, do you agree with him and his attempts lumping all E-V13 and originating somewhere in modern Kosovo and were underclass/slaves?
He literally never once said that so how could I agree to that.
That is a demented paranoid straw man projection of the Huban/Aspurg type.

I agree with him that sardinian ev13, 10 out of all 27 Italian ev13 in yfull, is significant. I was not convinced by the argument that all these older branches were piggybacked to sardinia later on. Very simple.

You strike me as very fishy in all of this. This thread was created in good faith, so i don't want to see any more of your post or his.
I strike you as fishy? Why, because I am posting information which doesn't match Hubans rapist fantasies?
You don't want to see me or his post? You are free to log off, because I will continue to post if something doesn't make sense. You have grave misperceptions if you think you can tell me where to post.
 
Guys, it actually doesn't matter, please come back to real arguments.
@Hawk: He doesn't even post here, and he will be proven wrong on all levels, because his comments on the spread of E-V13 just make absolutely no sense. The data is against him.
 
Huban/Aspurg is one of the most deranged users on these forums, he constantly admits to not being objective,


In what way am I not objective? I am the one bringing actual data in far greater % than the others.


one of those weakling types

I am all for rational debate. But once things get irrational such as said individual or anyone not being rational, providing evidence.


I would very much prefer if we had a little public debate, then some of you would learn first hand how "weak" I am.. Physically, strength wise I am quite gifted, and I never took steroids to pump paper muscles.. Mentally likewise as confirmed by DNA actually. I do have a bunch of favorable SNP's associated with higher performance.


No wonder I have been a Nietzschean.


What is really pathetic, Bruzmi objected to me posting analysis of Serbian historian of Vimnacium names based on her supposed "Milosevic" connections. You too objected to Garasanin for similar reason. She wrote than in 1976 actually and Garasanin too wrote much before the 1990.. I despise "nationalism" based on "victimology" because it is against the Nietzschean and Darwinist principles I adhere to.

So whenever anyone complains about things that were done to his/her ancestors he is a weakling by definition.. Most Albanian nationalists are weaklings, most Serbian nationalists are weaklings.. In my book and in the book of those who think the way I do..

I said to him that you unlike him are an example of someone who is willing to accept the facts.


that do school shootings and to see you have such a visceral reaction to Bruzmi ("a barking dog"), but casually accept this Huban/Aspurg guy as a "reasonable" commentary provider, all because he has convinced you of some non-existant J2b-l283 "consiparcy" agianst E-v13. This is so pathetic.


He can "bark" with 80 % of nonsense in posts. He can't bite though, and as they say "the barking dog doesn't bite".. I put him in his place almost everywhere. Lastly he claimed most Polish E is not V13. I brought papers proving the opposite..


It's just that Albanians have extra favor on some internet fora so they can get away with posting more nonsense..
 
That's absolutely not true. That guy is a J2b2-L283 carrier who is closely associated with Rrenjet project and perhaps the other one as well. So, please don't bring his propaganda in this thread. His opinion, his barking like a dog in internet is not welcomed.

One of his views sums him up well. When Daunian study was out he said that actually there were great many E-V13 in Daunians, it's just that they didn't test the slaves and underclass. Supposedly had they done that they would have found out that they were mostly E-V13.. But as they supposedly tested elites J-L283 is there..

He vehemently opposes any notion of E-V13 having any relation to IE while vehemently supporting that J2b2 is 100 % IE.. Those Nuragics were actually of Illyrian origin...

My job is to crush these E-V13 haters once and for all and beat them into submission, and I have been successful in general and upcoming data will put them where they belong. I don't care whether they are Bruzmi or some Serbian admins of poreklo for example, and I have history opposing them on this topic as well.

NE Hungarian LBA and EBA samples will do exactly that..
 
He can "bark" with 80 % of nonsense in posts. He can't bite though, and as they say "the barking dog doesn't bite".. I put him in his place almost everywhere. Lastly he claimed most Polish E is not V13. I brought papers proving the opposite..

It wasn't just you, but 4 more knowledgeable posters, all provided him with actual papers and material, an explanation for the pattern and why he can't just sum up Polish flag results from YFull that easily. And he still keeps saying the same wrong things. Of course, that's annoying and complete nonsense, but let's come back to the topic in question. Otherwise other readers will just stop reading on and its, honestly, just wasted energy and space. He is already proven wrong and the more results will trickle in, the more ridiculous his or other people's views on the matter will become.
On the other hand, 5 years ago many of the results which came in lately were not that easy to anticipate. There were just a few writers which came even close to how it really turned out. Regardless of whether I'm right in every aspect of my theory, but the general pattern of an rapid LBA-EIA expansion from one group and centre is now beyond doubt. Its actually even written in the recent studies, so the scientists which care for the subject already know - presumably from additional material we don't have as well.
 
I opened the thread on good faith, so i don't have any intention to derail it. In fact most of what we supposed in this thread was indirectly confirmed by the new paper.

I insist that perhaps Illyri proprii dicti can be loaded with E-V13, like Ardiaei-Pirusti-Enchelei-Taulanti. With Enchelei being far more purer E-V13, while the other tribes more mixed.

I know that Taulanti are related to Enchelei, and they used cremation urns in Epidamnus noted by archeologists that those were not brought by Greek colonizers but were native.

Pirusti and Dardanii are noted to use cremation urns.

As for Enchelei, the Early Iron Age Enchelei as noted by Pasko Kuzman cremated their deaths on a pyre. Latter Trebeniste Culture used also rectangular pits and eventually necropolises to bury their death.
 
It's just that Albanians have extra favor on some internet fora so they can get away with posting more nonsense..

Don't mix Albanians here, this is a very specific group which has nothing to do with mainstream Albanians. And are using Serbs as scape-goat to hide behind it and promote their agenda.
 
How did those middle bronze age E-V13 branches get to Sardinia. Some branches getting piggybacked later on by germanics, etc, can be feasible, but all of them, and all of them maintaining a mean Tmrca of ~3000 ybp, doesnt make sense.
 
I opened the thread on good faith, so i don't have any intention to derail it. In fact most of what we supposed in this thread was indirectly confirmed by the new paper.

I insist that perhaps Illyri proprii dicti can be loaded with E-V13, like Ardiaei-Pirusti-Enchelei-Taulanti. With Enchelei being far more purer E-V13, while the other tribes more mixed.

I know that Taulanti are related to Enchelei, and they used cremation urns in Epidamnus noted by archeologists that those were not brought by Greek colonizers but were native.

Pirusti and Dardanii are noted to use cremation urns.

As for Enchelei, the Early Iron Age Enchelei as noted by Pasko Kuzman cremated their deaths on a pyre. Latter Trebeniste Culture used also rectangular pits and eventually necropolises to bury their death.

The cremation tradition also matters, because E-V13 quite obviously is primarily connected with G?va-Holigrady culture and Belegis II-G?va, Fluted Ware horizon respectively. Whether they were even dominant in the whole Channelled Ware has to be shown, but inside of it they spread. The more Western Middle Danubian Urnfielders seem to have been from a different group and are unlikely to have been heavy in E-V13.
The Pannonian region became just penetrated by E-V13 carriers on a larger scale by Thraco-Cimmerian and Basarabi-Hallstatt, as well as the succeeding groups which all had an East -> West impact primarily on the Pannonian-Northern Illyrian and Celtic areas. The Dardanians had in their Eastern archaeological group strong Belegis II influences, so there is a direct link.

How did those middle bronze age E-V13 branches get to Sardinia. Some branches getting piggybacked later on by germanics, etc, can be feaaible, but all of them, and all of them maintaining a mean Tmrca of ~3000 ybp, doesnt make sense.

We don't know yet! But it seems to have come in later, because like I wrote before, they are mostly restricted to Cagliari and came together with other Central European haplotypes. The typical transitional phase age is common in many V13 local populations and leads back to the massive early LBA-EIA expansion, of which, presumably, a lot of lineages died out, whereas others became later successful in various different people. The Channelled Ware and Basarabi unit was later broken.

I still have a big problem with Northern Italy, because the frequency of E-V13 is not that high there, and we don't know for sure when and with which groups it came. Could have been as early as Thraco-Cimmerian horizon and Hallstatt influences, or as late as Germanics and even Germans and Balkan people. We'll see, there is just a need for way more data. There is also the option that some Southern Italian ones (Greco-Thracian and Balkan Medieval derived) came to the North, for individual cases it already seems like that.
 
With respect to "Mycenaean-like" autosomal results of Albanians, please keep in mind that archaeologically myceneans literally did have soldiers from west balkans and even italy serving for them:

E8fibz-WYAMYFBn



The tumulus of Mati, Albania are known for having many mycenaean weapons found in them, they are known as weapon loving.
 
With respect to "Mycenaean-like" autosomal results of Albanians, please keep in mind that archaeologically myceneans literally did have soldiers from west balkans and even italy serving for them:
E8fibz-WYAMYFBn

The tumulus of Mati, Albania are known for having many mycenaean weapons found in them, they are known as weapon loving.

That's how Channelled Ware people too first met Greeks and even lived among them probably, they were migrants, especially mercants and artisans. We know from the Barbarian ware that it preceded the downfall of Mycenaean Greeks. So first there were small groups of migrants, which even lived among these Bronze Age Greeks, then they did unite with their tribal brethren to overturn the Greek rule. Naue II swords and iron swords played an important role in this, when the Carpathian people (Channelled Ware) started their mass production. You can see that both the Naue II sword production and first iron swords had a massive centre in the Carpathians.

I found a comment on Eupedia which might give us a hint for Sardinian clades:
EvoAbruzzo said:
Sards/Sardinians are their own distinct people and culture, with a very distinct genetic heritage and language, not considered part of the
Italian ethnicities. In Sardinia itself, however, you need to be aware that there are historical ethnic minority enclaves which need to be
taken into account in your analysis of genetic markers there - Catalans in Alghero, Genoese/Ligurians on the islands of Sant'Antioco and San Pietro off the southwest coast, and the Gallurese (who are mixed Corsican-Sardinian ancestry) in the northeast region of Gallura. Gallurese, like other Corsicans, have significant Italian (Tuscan and Ligurian) admixture, and their language is a dialect of Tuscan Italian. Thus, the amount of R1b, J1, J2, E-M81 and E-V13 ancestry in Sardinia is actually much lower among the specifically aboriginal, Sardinian-speaking Sards of central and southern Sardinia (Logudorese, Nuorese and Campidanese-speaking regions). J1, R1b and E-M81 are partially inflated because of the Catalan enclave, while J2, E-V13 and R1b are all made higher because of the Ligurian and Gallurese populations. The actual indigenous, Neolithic farmer-descended Sards have even higher I2a and G2 (Mesolithic HG and Neolithic Farmer markers) than reported here, when the Ligurian, Gallurese and Catalan minority populations are excluded.

https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/italian_dna.shtml#maps

That was also my idea of a North Italian origin, even though I couldn't be that concrete. I didn't even know Gallurese:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallurese_dialect

Would be great to have as good of a sample from Corsica, ultimately Tuscany and other Northern Italian regions also, especially the former Ligurian.
 
Wait Aspurg is Huban? :embarassed::LOL:

Now I feel bad for trashing some of his theories on Anthrogenica... Here I try to close an eye when I read some of his cringe statement regarding Albanians, since he is the devil I know, and I know he has some master-slave morality fantasies. Should have gone a bit easier on him on Anthro, at lest on the rhetorical side, had I known it was him.

As long as you account for his biases, he does provide some useful tidbits of esoteric publications not easy to come by, so I value his posts, even the cringe ones.


Sorry mate :cool-v:

Edit: LMAO I was on page 5 when I made this reply, but at least I got something right.

No wonder I have been a Nietzschean.


 
Lol at Derite trying to gaslight us, everyone saw through that guy intentions through and through. :bored:
 
There are apparently inscriptions of the 'Albanoi' in ancient Dardania / North Macedonia believed to of been found after the Roman-Illyrian wars, could this testify that such population movements already occurred back then ?
 
Wait Aspurg is Huban? :embarassed::LOL:

Now I feel bad for trashing some of his theories on Anthrogenica...

The only attempt of yours was to "prove" that Albanians have no Slavic auDNA admxiture or that it is very low. Literally nobody who knows about auDNA agrees with that so you cannot trash anything. And look how they model the Albanians in this new Viminacium study, as having 35 % of Slavic-like, which is way too high..

Here I try to close an eye when I read some of his cringe statement regarding Albanians, since he is the devil I know, and I know he has some master-slave morality fantasies.

Everybody has them. You have them , that's why you want so much to be IE. In Bronze Age IE's were "masters", others were "slaves". At least in the areas where they were active..

Should have gone a bit easier on him on Anthro, at lest on the rhetorical side, had I known it was him.

As long as you account for his biases, he does provide some useful tidbits of esoteric publications not easy to come by, so I value his posts, even the cringe ones.


Sorry mate :cool-v:

Edit: LMAO I was on page 5 when I made this reply, but at least I got something right.

I've never done anything cringe like on this or other fora. I will openly clash with anyone. Here and there some of my statements are abit coded as otherwise I'd be banned. I got banned once on anthrogenica for going hard on that Bruzmi guy. But things I said (that were deleted) I stand by. And it was 100 % Nietzschean. Meaning was you are not going to make dominator hg a servile hg..

I see many Albanians were banned from there, Derite, Hawk, Gjenetika and Rrenjet (Gjergj) admins..
 
There are apparently inscriptions of the 'Albanoi' in ancient Dardania / North Macedonia believed to of been found after the Roman-Illyrian wars, could this testify that such population movements already occurred back then ?

There was a woman Delus daughter of Mucat from Albanopolis.. She was married to a man from Scupi where also some non-Illyrian and non-Thracian names were common. Delus is a name with Phrygian parallels and Mucat is very likely Thracian as compound names with Muca/Muco were extremely common or quintessential Thracian names. Recently I found some Mucanius, which points towards Mucat being Thracian. If not for the "t" at the end it would have been counted instantly as 100 % Thracian.

So the oldest known inhabitant of Albanopolis born in mid 1st century AD was not an Illyrian, neither was his daughter, judging by their names.. Un-Illyrian in a sea of Illyrians as we do have names from various other places in Albanian Illyria from that period (Durrachium etc.).

So Albanians have been avoiding Bessoi like a plague only to find an Albanoi Bessian.:LOL::LOL:
 
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