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Thread: Dynamic changes in genomic and social structures in third millennium BCE central Euro

  1. #76
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I'm a bit surprised (not too much, in fact). I had read the Alt-Europäisch could have ties with an IE dialect of Rhaetia (as a challenger to the Etruscanlike Rhaetian) and maybe even with eastern Venetic, all pushed by some scholars into the bag of a Pan-Italic group. But I rather would place the very Italic neat individualisation around East Austria-Croatia around Urnfield times where numerous contacts seem having found place, involving more southeastern ethnies of Hungary and Noerthern Balkans. That doesn't exclude the conservationof first tight links with other Pan-Italic dialects and people, in fact, still close enough to other western primitive IE dialects (post-BB heritage). Languages do'nt differentiate abruptly but step by step, and surely some common evolutions took place before intermediary close dialects died, evolutions shared by what would be true Italic a bit later.

    Concerning the early CWC of Bohemia rich in Y-R1b-L151, I should guess they were rather on the U-106 side than the P-312 one, what don't exclude some P-312. I wait for more legible downstream SNP's in this region and elsewhere for this period. P312-U152-L2 could also be considered there as a peripheric (marginal?) remnant of the bulk of P312 which evolved later in the BB's sphere. But I can be mistaken.
    I hope we 'll have more Sögel-Wohlde Y-haplos. To date, I suppose the R1b-L51 there were rather on the U106 side. Wait and see.
    concerning BB's, no problem, since a long time I think that they were also of Steppic origin, or soon "steppicised" and that they adopted the BB's artefacts and incorporated them in their network.
    As you know, I try to draw a global figure and not to drown myself in a cosmos of too local archeological cultures, separated by few and little.

    https://www.academia.edu/44684416/Raetic
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-Z282

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    Thanks, Torzio.
    I 'll read this paper, but what is the goal? To affirm Rhaetic was a Tyrsenian language?
    THis is accepted since long ago. But some scholars (based on toponymy?) think there was an other languages spoken on their territory (just before the Etruscanlike?) badly understood but whose imprecise I-E affiliation (some rare ties with Venetic other with Germanic) which could evok the famous Northwest Block and some kind of meta-Italic.
    When I said "challenger" it was meaning challenger as competing for some bits of territory, not challenger as replacing the origin proposed for the better known forms of Rhaetic?
    ATW I'm going to read your paper.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    go to
    supplementary Materials:

    other supplementary material for this manu - script includes the following :
    Table S1 to S37

    press- Download


    go to table S3


    you will see the site of each ancient sample



    I thank you, but the link didn't work with me.

  4. #79
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Thanks, Torzio.
    I 'll read this paper, but what is the goal? To affirm Rhaetic was a Tyrsenian language?
    THis is accepted since long ago. But some scholars (based on toponymy?) think there was an other languages spoken on their territory (just before the Etruscanlike?) badly understood but whose imprecise I-E affiliation (some rare ties with Venetic other with Germanic) which could evok the famous Northwest Block and some kind of meta-Italic.
    When I said "challenger" it was meaning challenger as competing for some bits of territory, not challenger as replacing the origin proposed for the better known forms of Rhaetic?
    ATW I'm going to read your paper.

    read this one ............it is more accurate and they update twice a year

    https://www.univie.ac.at/raetica/wik...aetic_language

    also use the contents area on the left side

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    Thanks, Torzio.
    But it doesn't answer the questioning of some linguists concerning the cohabitation of languages on their territory.
    INteresting all the way.

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