Ancient DNA of Roman Danubian Frontier and Slavic Migrations (Olalde 2021)

[Angela]

Not sure if you have read this one. Its quite a good article.
Haplogroup diversity, ranging from 3800 to 2700 bp for various clades, spanning from Colombia to India.
Overrepresented haplogroup in the Kohanim priestly lines.

https://j2-m172.info/2015/10/j2b2a1-...wish-lineages/


So here and there... there was some mingling, whether in the Balkans, Italy or Germany.

It doesn't prove any such thing. Arabs have it too and a lot of groups in the Middle East.

[Archetype0ne]

I think the cultural links in the wiki page, which I had also posted, gives some compelling evidence of Catacomb influence in Italy, the Balkans, and Greece. As well as Scythian, and Iranic people.

Oh, I got no qualms with that. In fact to me it makes perfect sense. In fact if that Eneolithic L283 ever turns out to be true around Moldova. Its pretty strong evidence for your point.

I was referring to this point:

Albanians were Southern Italian-like until they received about 20% Slavic admixture it seems, to me.

Since Catacombs despite being from a region today inhabited by Slavs, predated Slavic ethnogenesis by as much as 3000 years.

I really think the paper using Mordovian has something to it that the public is not aware of. Reich would not let such mediocrity fly otherwise. We are missing pieces of the puzzle, and the researchers have those aces up their sleeves.

And... for some reason its connected to Finno-Urgics.

[Francis Drake]

Oh, I got no qualms with that. In fact to me it makes perfect sense. In fact if that Eneolithic L283 ever turns out to be true around Moldova. Its pretty strong evidence for your point.

I was referring to this point:



Since Catacombs despite being from a region today inhabited by Slavs, predated Slavic ethnogenesis by as much as 3000 years.

I really think the paper using Mordovian has something to it that the public is not aware of. Reich would not let such mediocrity fly otherwise. We are missing pieces of the puzzle, and the researchers have those aces up their sleeves.

And... for some reason its connected to Finno-Urgics.

As a piece of anecdotal evidence; I score 3% Finnish on DNA.LAND.

[Archetype0ne]

It doesn't prove any such thing. Arabs have it too and a lot of groups in the Middle East.

Who are these Arabs and groups in the Middle East. You got me really curious. I would think I know L283...

And it proves something. You need people to mingle, and these Judeans did mingle with some IE people for L283 to be that high 5%-10%.
You were adamant they would not marry "you/us", and I am not sure it is in line with the genetic facts.

Anyways have a good night it was a pleasure.

[Constantine]

Albanians were Southern Italian-like until they received about 20% Slavic admixture it seems, to me.

I think it more accurate to say that people in today's Albania were southern Italian-like until the Ghegs showed up.

[Hawk]

Albanians were Southern Italian-like until they received about 20% Slavic admixture it seems, to me.

Not really, they probably lacked WHG anyway.

[blevins13]

What are you talking about????

Did you read the paper? Where did it say the Balkanites were descended from the wealthy Near Eastern cluster of, probably, administrators etc? They specifically said they WEREN'T.

If you're talking about the make up of the Balkan Iron Age cluster have you never heard that Greece and the Balkans were populated by farmers from Anatolia in the Neolithic ( given that the Balkans were one of the few places where you couldn't find many hunter-gatherers at all, except up by the gates)??? They formed the great culture known as "Old Europe", master metal workers,, builders of cities and artists. Now they're people to be proud of...

Where on earth have you been for the last seven years or so?

In terms of the Illyrians, Northeastern Italians are closer to Illyrians than the Albanians are. Heck, I'm part Tuscan and I'M closer to the Illyrians than the Albanians are...I'm also really close to the admixed Scythians, and I'm way to the west of the east/west divide in Italy.

As for those "steppe heavy" Eastern Balkans populations, unless you have a crystal ball there's no way in hell you know what they were like autosomally, because we don't have any samples from them.

I haven't read such an unsupported post in ages. Congratulations.

Stop spreading baseless and erroneous information on this thread.

Which Illyrians, are you closer to the Illyrians Proper, how you establish that. In MTA Albanians are very close to Log04 , so I would expect them to be very close to Illyrii proprii/proprie dicti.


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[blevins13]

I think it more accurate to say that people in today's Albania were southern Italian-like until the Ghegs showed up.

Sure, these Gegs that are close to Log04, disappeared and showed up again. It is all magical.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

[Angela]

Which Illyrians, are you closer to the Illyrians Proper, how you establish that. In MTA Albanians are very close to Log04 , so I would expect them to be very close to Illyrii proprii/proprie dicti.


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Northeastern Italians are way closer; even people like Stuvane, who is from Romagna. It has to do with the east/west divide in Italy created by the Apennini.

I don't think they're accurate, but since you like MTA:
Roman (3.604)
Roman + Illyrian (4.023)
Roman + Samnite (4.53)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (4.553)
Samnite + Illyrian (5.859)
Roman Hispania + Roman (7.088)
Samnite (7.89)
Gallo-Roman (9.674)
Illyrian (10.27)
Roman Hispania (13.46)


1. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 3.604 - SZ43
Top

100 %

match vs all users







2. Central Roman
630 AD - Genetic Distance: 4.502 - CL36
Top

100 %

match vs all users



3. Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 5.422 - Log02_cap
Top

100 %

match vs all users



4. Tuscan Medieval Villa Magna Italy
905 AD - Genetic Distance: 5.953 - R60
Top

100 %

match vs all users



5. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro
930 BC - Genetic Distance: 6.192 - R1
Top

99 %

match vs all users



6. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 6.355 - TAQ003
Top

100 %

match vs all users



7. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.736 - SZ36
Top

100 %

match vs all users



8. Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.046 - Log02_wgs
Top

99 %

match vs all users



9. Ancient Venosa Samnite
400 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.89 - VEN016
Top

100 %

match vs all users



10. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.333 - SZ37
Top

99 %

match vs all users



11. Late Roman Empire Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.36 - R107
Top

100 %

match vs all users



12. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.42 - TAQ009
Top

100 %

match vs all users



13. Tivoli Palace Late Renaissance
1650 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.512 - R970
Top

100 %

match vs all users



14. Etruria Iron Age Italy
1000 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.556 - ETR013
Top

100 %

match vs all users



15. Roman Empire Monterotondo
165 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.711 - R1540
Top

100 %

match vs all users



16. Etruscan Populonia
400 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.743 - POP001
Top

100 %

match vs all users



17. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.777 - SZ31
Top

100 %

match vs all users



18. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.932 - SZ32
Top

99 %

match vs all users



19. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 9.424 - TAQ011
Top

100 %

match vs all users



20. Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.478 - R36
Top

99 %

match vs all users



21. Medieval Italy Abbadia SS Plague
1348 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.536 - BSS31
Top

100 %

match vs all users



22. Tuscan Medieval Cancelleria Basilica
1350 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.548 - R1290
Top

100 %

match vs all users



23. Imperial Rome Cluana Ancona
165 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.566 - R835
Top

100 %

match vs all users



24. Gallo-Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.674 - SZ28
Top

98 %

match vs all users



25. Central Roman
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.687 - CL121
Top

99 %

match vs all users



26. Etruria Iron Age Italy
1000 BC - Genetic Distance: 9.699 - ETR003
Top

100 %

match vs all users



27. Avar Szolad Hungary
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.712 - SZ1
Top

99 %

match vs all users



28. North Roman Warrior
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.03 - NS3c
Top

99 %

match vs all users



29. Scythian Southern Moldova
270 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.07 - scy192
Top

98 %

match vs all users



30. Byzantine Roman Warrior
605 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.16 - NS3b
Top

100 %

match vs all users



31. Skeleton Lake Traveller - Hellenic
1805 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.17 - I3404
Top

100 %

match vs all users



32. Illyrian / Dalmatian
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.27 - I3313
Top

96 %

match vs all users




Since you also seem to like K13, which I don't...

Distance to:	Angela
2.93497871	SZ43_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1431_ybp
5.41744405	CL36_longobard_north_italy
5.73090743	I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp
6.05641808	R1287_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
6.59609733	SZ37_Hungary_Langobard_1447_ybp
6.59807548	SZ36_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp
6.86632362	R33_Lazio_Rome_Early_Medieval_Italy
6.93144285	R1_Abruzzo_Teramo_Late_Bronze_Age_Italy
7.32957707	R55_Lazio_Rome_Late_Medieval_Italy
7.39407871	I7424_morisco_
7.40771220	I7041_Hungary_BA_brother.I7043_4300_ybp
7.63038007	CL23_longobard_north_italy
7.68359942	Greece_MBA_Log02
7.83203039	R36_Lazio_Rome_Italy_Late_Antiquity
7.92385007	SZ31_Longobard_M_T1a1a_PF5620_U4c2a_60th_century
8.08064973	I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
8.12940342	R1285_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
8.34281128	R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
8.41153969	col018_col018_M_R1b0Z2123_T2b_
8.50960046	I7425_morisco_
8.61828869	scy300_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG
8.62188494	I3499_Croatia_Starcevo_EN_o_4725_ybp
8.71884167	STR535_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1491_ybp
8.89206388	I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp
8.97791178	SZ32_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp

Those aren't Langobards; they're Romans.

K12b from Vahaduo

Distance to:	Angela
5.95522460	I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
5.96391650	I8475_NE_Iberia_RomP_atypical
6.06853360	I3313_Balkans_BronzeAge
6.16497364	R1285_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
6.20277357	R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
6.36923857	Szolad43
6.86863888	I3499_NWBalkans_PannonianPlain_Vucedol_EN
6.88056684	R111_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
6.99997143	I2176_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.16744724	I1979_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy
7.41179465	I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.69315930	Collegno36
8.27704053	scy197_Scythian
8.39610029	Szolad28
8.75462164	Bul6_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.83820117	scy192_Scythian
8.85023164	Bul10_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.99692725	Szolad31
9.01075469	R1283_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
9.01258010	Collegno23
9.10639336	R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
9.23910169	I4331_Balkans_BronzeAge
9.25401534	R120_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
9.40637550	R36_Late_Antiquity_Celio
9.44550687	R33_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto

From Jovialis, the most complete set using K12b:

Distance to:	Angela
5.04939600	MOK17A:Zegarac_2021
5.96391650	I8475:Olalde_2019
6.06853360	Croatia_LBA:I3313:Mathieson_2018
6.10643922	Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome:R111:Antoni o_2019
6.11085919	C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1287:Antonio_2019
6.16497364	C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1285:Antonio_2019
6.36923857	Szolad43:Amorim_2018
6.39419268	ETR010:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
6.66446547	TAQ022:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
6.71269692	Bulgaria_EBA:I2176:Mathieson_2018
6.86863888	Vucedol:I3499:Mathieson_2018
7.09575930	I1979:Olalde_2018
7.26718653	POP001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
7.33042973	Bulgaria_EBA:I2175:Mathieson_2018
7.66150116	MA2197amgaard_2018
7.69315930	Collegno36:Amorim_2018
7.90459993	MOK31:Zegarac_2021
8.05195628	VET001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.13190630	Scythian:scy197:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
8.26525257	TAQ006:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.33593426	TAQ020:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.36580540	Armenoi_Crete:I9123:Lazaridis_2017
8.39610029	Szolad28:Amorim_2018
8.80221563	Hungary_BA:I7041:Olalde_2018
8.83255342	Bulgaria_EBA:Bul6:Mathieson_2018
8.88801440	ETR006:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.96155678	TAQ009:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.99692725	Szolad31:Amorim_2018
9.01104322	C6-Celio_Late_Antiquity:R36:Antonio_2019
9.01258010	Collegno23:Amorim_2018
9.04024889	VEU001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.05317624	Scythian:scy192:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
9.10909436	Latini_IA:R1016:Antonio_2019
9.17791915	C7-Mausole_di_Augusto_Late_Antiquity:R33:Antonio_2019
9.20749152	Bulgaria_EBA:Bul10:Mathieson_2018
9.25401534	C6-S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_Late_Antiquity:R120:An tonio_2019
9.27407677	ETR013:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.28820758	TAQ011:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.31211576	Scythian:scy300:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
9.35244888	Croatia_EMBA:I4331:Mathieson_2018
9.36452882	VOL001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.44751819	I5015:Olalde_2018
9.50057893	CSN013:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.58759615	C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1283:Antonio_2019
9.59114696	Bulgaria_BA:I2520:Mathieson_2018
9.65696122	Croatia_EMBA:I4332:Mathieson_2018
9.65707513	Beaker_Central_Europe:I2364:Olalde_2018
9.77791900	C7-Crypta_Balbi_Late_Antiquity:R110:Antonio_2019
9.87484177	Protovillanovan_IA:R1:Antonio_2019
9.91709131	ans007:Sánchez-Quinto_2019

Target: Angela Distance: 0.5327% / 0.53268546 | ADC: 0.25x RC
23.7	Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome
19.9	TAQ006
15.8	TAQ022
10.9	MOK17A
10.4	Baden_LCA
7.9	I8475
6.5	I3587
4.9	Latini_IA

Target: Angela Distance: 0.5327% / 0.53268546 | ADC: 0.25x RC
23.7	Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome
19.9	TAQ006
15.8	TAQ022
10.9	MOK17A
10.4	Baden_LCA
7.9	I8475
6.5	I3587
4.9	Latini_IA

[Juan.delajara]

The Roman Greek clusters or is close to the haplogroup J2a-L70 fellow from Viminacium. The Antonio et al. Rome L70 C5 sample R136 plots between Cyprus and south Italy. These two look like modern Aegean islanders or Cypriots. It is not surprising, according to YFull, with a modern basal sample in the Levant and many in Turkey. As far as my own L70 in my bloodline, I have no idea what are the subbranches, but this ancestor may have from the Levant or Anatolia at some point, with the eastern Roman contacts.

J2 L70 is probably Anatolian and/or greek in origin, as the Finocchio paper stated on 2018. If you check on Yfull ''live'' you can see the two basal samples at the moment are from Spain and Albania. It was probably spread to western Europe through classical greeks on the IX century BCE, although its first expansion, specially on the eastern Mediterranean, could have been with the Myceaneans and/or other Aegean/Anatolian people. Maybe L70 was part of Magna Graecia (we will hopefully have further news from the incoming papers), and then part of the big roman expansion all over Europe, as I personally think that is the case of the Viminacium individual.

[Francis Drake]

I think it more accurate to say that people in today's Albania were southern Italian-like until the Ghegs showed up.

Thats a misnomer, you mean the proto-Albanians.

[Angela]

I never gave it much thought, but it's interesting that I'm closest on Jovialis' 12b to someone from the Maros Culture in the Bronze Age.

EBA necropolis of Mokrin, located near the town of Kikinda in the northern Banat, Serbia. The necropolis was used by a population belonging to the Maros culture (2700–1500 cal BC), which encompasses a set of communities extending through southeastern Hungary, western Romania, and northern Serbia37 (Fig. 1; Supplementary information 1). Radiocarbon dating indicates that the Mokrin necropolis was used for 300 years, from around 2100–1800 cal BC3

Distance to:	MOK17A:Zegarac_2021
4.55975877	Italian_Romagna
4.79056364	French_Corsica
4.86831593	Italian_Tuscany
5.84622819	Italian_Marche
6.07696470	Italian_Emilia
6.50433701	Italian_Liguria
6.89936954	Italian_Lazio
8.70247666	Italian_Lombardy
9.95629951	Italian_Piedmont
9.97372548	Italian_Veneto
10.24577474	Albanian
11.18326428	Albanian_Kosovo

[Angela]

^^
Olalde et al 2019 ( Doubtless a Roman from Roman Era Empuries in Catalonia)

Distance to:	I8475:Olalde_2019
5.28160960	French_Corsica
5.50402580	Italian_Liguria
6.36328531	Italian_Emilia
6.74143902	Italian_Tuscany
7.01267424	Italian_Lombardy
7.79796127	Italian_Piedmont
8.50914214	Italian_Romagna
9.16421846	Italian_Veneto
9.93606562	Spanish_Canarias
10.10349259	Swiss_Italian
10.76134583	Italian_Marche
10.93044830	Portuguese
11.32834498	Italian_Lazio

[Archetype0ne]

I never gave it much thought, but it's interesting that I'm closest on Jovialis' 12b to someone from the Maros Culture in the Bronze Age.

EBA necropolis of Mokrin, located near the town of Kikinda in the northern Banat, Serbia. The necropolis was used by a population belonging to the Maros culture (2700–1500 cal BC), which encompasses a set of communities extending through southeastern Hungary, western Romania, and northern Serbia37 (Fig. 1; Supplementary information 1). Radiocarbon dating indicates that the Mokrin necropolis was used for 300 years, from around 2100–1800 cal BC3

Distance to:	MOK17A:Zegarac_2021
4.55975877	Italian_Romagna
4.79056364	French_Corsica
4.86831593	Italian_Tuscany
5.84622819	Italian_Marche
6.07696470	Italian_Emilia
6.50433701	Italian_Liguria
6.89936954	Italian_Lazio
8.70247666	Italian_Lombardy
9.95629951	Italian_Piedmont
9.97372548	Italian_Veneto
10.24577474	Albanian
11.18326428	Albanian_Kosovo

I am guessing that is the L283 sample. Earliest European L283 to date.

[torzio]

Which Illyrians, are you closer to the Illyrians Proper, how you establish that. In MTA Albanians are very close to Log04 , so I would expect them to be very close to Illyrii proprii/proprie dicti.


Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum

the term Illyrii proprii/proprie dicti. was only done by Pliny the Elder in AD times to describe people south of southern Dalmatians ..............no one else used this term
"Illyrii Proprie Dicti" were the Illyrians proper, so called by Pliny (23–79 AD) in his Natural History. They later formed the Docleatae. They were the Taulantii, the Pleraei or Pyraei, the Endirudini, Sasaei, Grabaei, Labeatae.

The Greeks wrote .....Ancient Greek writers used the name "Illyrian" to describe peoples between the Liburnians and Epirus. 4th-century BC Greek writers clearly separated the people along the Adriatic coast from the Illyrians,
Clearly indicating only the Dalmatians as Illyrian.............because Epirus is where the bulk of modern albania and NW greece are today ............the Epirote tribes where 14 in total

Roman Illyricum comprised of all tribes between the Histrians of Istria , Slovenia through the Liburnians of north Croatia , through the Dalmatians of southern Croatia , through all of Montenegro to the Drin river ...............south of this was the Epirotes as per Roman writers


The 4 year long, Great illyrian revolt against the Romans was only by Dalmatian and Pannonian tribes against the Roman Empire

[blevins13]

the term Illyrii proprii/proprie dicti. was only done by Pliny the Elder in AD times to describe people south of southern Dalmatians ..............no one else used this term
"Illyrii Proprie Dicti" were the Illyrians proper, so called by Pliny (23–79 AD) in his Natural History. They later formed the Docleatae. They were the Taulantii, the Pleraei or Pyraei, the Endirudini, Sasaei, Grabaei, Labeatae.

The Greeks wrote .....Ancient Greek writers used the name "Illyrian" to describe peoples between the Liburnians and Epirus. 4th-century BC Greek writers clearly separated the people along the Adriatic coast from the Illyrians,
Clearly indicating only the Dalmatians as Illyrian.............because Epirus is where the bulk of modern albania and NW greece are today ............the Epirote tribes where 14 in total

Roman Illyricum comprised of all tribes between the Histrians of Istria , Slovenia through the Liburnians of north Croatia , through the Dalmatians of southern Croatia , through all of Montenegro to the Drin river ...............south of this was the Epirotes as per Roman writers


The 4 year long, Great illyrian revolt against the Romans was only by Dalmatian and Pannonian tribes against the Roman Empire

Sure man whatever you say.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

[blevins13]

Northeastern Italians are way closer; even people like Stuvane, who is from Romagna. It has to do with the east/west divide in Italy created by the Apennini.

I don't think they're accurate, but since you like MTA:
Roman (3.604)
Roman + Illyrian (4.023)
Roman + Samnite (4.53)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (4.553)
Samnite + Illyrian (5.859)
Roman Hispania + Roman (7.088)
Samnite (7.89)
Gallo-Roman (9.674)
Illyrian (10.27)
Roman Hispania (13.46)


1. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 3.604 - SZ43
Top

100 %

match vs all users







2. Central Roman
630 AD - Genetic Distance: 4.502 - CL36
Top

100 %

match vs all users



3. Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 5.422 - Log02_cap
Top

100 %

match vs all users



4. Tuscan Medieval Villa Magna Italy
905 AD - Genetic Distance: 5.953 - R60
Top

100 %

match vs all users



5. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro
930 BC - Genetic Distance: 6.192 - R1
Top

99 %

match vs all users



6. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 6.355 - TAQ003
Top

100 %

match vs all users



7. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.736 - SZ36
Top

100 %

match vs all users



8. Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.046 - Log02_wgs
Top

99 %

match vs all users



9. Ancient Venosa Samnite
400 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.89 - VEN016
Top

100 %

match vs all users



10. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.333 - SZ37
Top

99 %

match vs all users



11. Late Roman Empire Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.36 - R107
Top

100 %

match vs all users



12. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.42 - TAQ009
Top

100 %

match vs all users



13. Tivoli Palace Late Renaissance
1650 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.512 - R970
Top

100 %

match vs all users



14. Etruria Iron Age Italy
1000 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.556 - ETR013
Top

100 %

match vs all users



15. Roman Empire Monterotondo
165 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.711 - R1540
Top

100 %

match vs all users



16. Etruscan Populonia
400 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.743 - POP001
Top

100 %

match vs all users



17. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.777 - SZ31
Top

100 %

match vs all users



18. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.932 - SZ32
Top

99 %

match vs all users



19. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 9.424 - TAQ011
Top

100 %

match vs all users



20. Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.478 - R36
Top

99 %

match vs all users



21. Medieval Italy Abbadia SS Plague
1348 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.536 - BSS31
Top

100 %

match vs all users



22. Tuscan Medieval Cancelleria Basilica
1350 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.548 - R1290
Top

100 %

match vs all users



23. Imperial Rome Cluana Ancona
165 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.566 - R835
Top

100 %

match vs all users



24. Gallo-Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.674 - SZ28
Top

98 %

match vs all users



25. Central Roman
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.687 - CL121
Top

99 %

match vs all users



26. Etruria Iron Age Italy
1000 BC - Genetic Distance: 9.699 - ETR003
Top

100 %

match vs all users



27. Avar Szolad Hungary
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.712 - SZ1
Top

99 %

match vs all users



28. North Roman Warrior
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.03 - NS3c
Top

99 %

match vs all users



29. Scythian Southern Moldova
270 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.07 - scy192
Top

98 %

match vs all users



30. Byzantine Roman Warrior
605 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.16 - NS3b
Top

100 %

match vs all users



31. Skeleton Lake Traveller - Hellenic
1805 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.17 - I3404
Top

100 %

match vs all users



32. Illyrian / Dalmatian
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.27 - I3313
Top

96 %

match vs all users




Since you also seem to like K13, which I don't...

Distance to:	Angela
2.93497871	SZ43_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1431_ybp
5.41744405	CL36_longobard_north_italy
5.73090743	I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp
6.05641808	R1287_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
6.59609733	SZ37_Hungary_Langobard_1447_ybp
6.59807548	SZ36_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp
6.86632362	R33_Lazio_Rome_Early_Medieval_Italy
6.93144285	R1_Abruzzo_Teramo_Late_Bronze_Age_Italy
7.32957707	R55_Lazio_Rome_Late_Medieval_Italy
7.39407871	I7424_morisco_
7.40771220	I7041_Hungary_BA_brother.I7043_4300_ybp
7.63038007	CL23_longobard_north_italy
7.68359942	Greece_MBA_Log02
7.83203039	R36_Lazio_Rome_Italy_Late_Antiquity
7.92385007	SZ31_Longobard_M_T1a1a_PF5620_U4c2a_60th_century
8.08064973	I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
8.12940342	R1285_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
8.34281128	R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
8.41153969	col018_col018_M_R1b0Z2123_T2b_
8.50960046	I7425_morisco_
8.61828869	scy300_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG
8.62188494	I3499_Croatia_Starcevo_EN_o_4725_ybp
8.71884167	STR535_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1491_ybp
8.89206388	I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp
8.97791178	SZ32_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp

Those aren't Langobards; they're Romans.

K12b from Vahaduo

Distance to:	Angela
5.95522460	I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
5.96391650	I8475_NE_Iberia_RomP_atypical
6.06853360	I3313_Balkans_BronzeAge
6.16497364	R1285_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
6.20277357	R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
6.36923857	Szolad43
6.86863888	I3499_NWBalkans_PannonianPlain_Vucedol_EN
6.88056684	R111_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
6.99997143	I2176_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.16744724	I1979_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy
7.41179465	I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.69315930	Collegno36
8.27704053	scy197_Scythian
8.39610029	Szolad28
8.75462164	Bul6_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.83820117	scy192_Scythian
8.85023164	Bul10_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.99692725	Szolad31
9.01075469	R1283_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
9.01258010	Collegno23
9.10639336	R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
9.23910169	I4331_Balkans_BronzeAge
9.25401534	R120_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
9.40637550	R36_Late_Antiquity_Celio
9.44550687	R33_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto

From Jovialis, the most complete set using K12b:

Distance to:	Angela
5.04939600	MOK17A:Zegarac_2021
5.96391650	I8475:Olalde_2019
6.06853360	Croatia_LBA:I3313:Mathieson_2018
6.10643922	Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome:R111:Antoni o_2019
6.11085919	C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1287:Antonio_2019
6.16497364	C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1285:Antonio_2019
6.36923857	Szolad43:Amorim_2018
6.39419268	ETR010:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
6.66446547	TAQ022:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
6.71269692	Bulgaria_EBA:I2176:Mathieson_2018
6.86863888	Vucedol:I3499:Mathieson_2018
7.09575930	I1979:Olalde_2018
7.26718653	POP001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
7.33042973	Bulgaria_EBA:I2175:Mathieson_2018
7.66150116	MA2197amgaard_2018
7.69315930	Collegno36:Amorim_2018
7.90459993	MOK31:Zegarac_2021
8.05195628	VET001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.13190630	Scythian:scy197:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
8.26525257	TAQ006:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.33593426	TAQ020:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.36580540	Armenoi_Crete:I9123:Lazaridis_2017
8.39610029	Szolad28:Amorim_2018
8.80221563	Hungary_BA:I7041:Olalde_2018
8.83255342	Bulgaria_EBA:Bul6:Mathieson_2018
8.88801440	ETR006:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.96155678	TAQ009:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.99692725	Szolad31:Amorim_2018
9.01104322	C6-Celio_Late_Antiquity:R36:Antonio_2019
9.01258010	Collegno23:Amorim_2018
9.04024889	VEU001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.05317624	Scythian:scy192:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
9.10909436	Latini_IA:R1016:Antonio_2019
9.17791915	C7-Mausole_di_Augusto_Late_Antiquity:R33:Antonio_2019
9.20749152	Bulgaria_EBA:Bul10:Mathieson_2018
9.25401534	C6-S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_Late_Antiquity:R120:An tonio_2019
9.27407677	ETR013:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.28820758	TAQ011:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.31211576	Scythian:scy300:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
9.35244888	Croatia_EMBA:I4331:Mathieson_2018
9.36452882	VOL001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.44751819	I5015:Olalde_2018
9.50057893	CSN013:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.58759615	C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1283:Antonio_2019
9.59114696	Bulgaria_BA:I2520:Mathieson_2018
9.65696122	Croatia_EMBA:I4332:Mathieson_2018
9.65707513	Beaker_Central_Europe:I2364:Olalde_2018
9.77791900	C7-Crypta_Balbi_Late_Antiquity:R110:Antonio_2019
9.87484177	Protovillanovan_IA:R1:Antonio_2019
9.91709131	ans007:Sánchez-Quinto_2019

Target: Angela Distance: 0.5327% / 0.53268546 | ADC: 0.25x RC
23.7	Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome
19.9	TAQ006
15.8	TAQ022
10.9	MOK17A
10.4	Baden_LCA
7.9	I8475
6.5	I3587
4.9	Latini_IA

Target: Angela Distance: 0.5327% / 0.53268546 | ADC: 0.25x RC
23.7	Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome
19.9	TAQ006
15.8	TAQ022
10.9	MOK17A
10.4	Baden_LCA
7.9	I8475
6.5	I3587
4.9	Latini_IA

I am not sure if you understood what I said.

If you want to compare Albanians with Illyrians start with South Illyrian, or Illyrian Proper. Since no sample have come yet from Albania , you may use Log04 to give you a hint, since is closer that the samples from Dalmatia. Albanian take their name from Albanoi tribe so first you should start with them or samples in their proximity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoi

Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 17.23 - Log04_wgs_trim5bp
Top 90 % match vs all users


Closest Modern

1. Kosovar (10.17)
2. Romanian (10.39)
3. Bosnian (11.01)
4. Bulgarian (11.17)
5. Serbian (11.56)
6. North_Italian (12.04)
7. Albanian_Tosk (12.36)
8. Macedonian (13.03)



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[blevins13]

Apollonia, was founded in 588 BC. Greek colonists from the city of Corinth and Corfu. It was originally known as Girakia in honor of the colonist leader Giraks. The name was later changed to honor the memory of the god Apollo. Apollonia lay on the territory of Tavlantia.

https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperi...paperid=107705

So why you post studies for Caucasian Albania. You believe that is relevant for Apollonia.


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[Archetype0ne]

So why you pas studies for Caucasian Albania. You that is relevant for Apollonia.


Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum

Guy is mental.

[blevins13]

Guy is mental.

Than I feel sorry for him.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

[Archetype0ne]

I am not sure if you understood what I said.

If you want to campare Albanians with Illyrians start with South Illyrian, or Illyrian Proper. Since no sample have come yet from Albania , you may use Log04 to give you a hint, since is closer that the samples from Dalmatia. Albanian take their name from Albanoi tribe so first you should start with them or samples in their proximity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoi

Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 17.23 - Log04_wgs_trim5bp
Top 90 % match vs all users


Closest Modern

1. Kosovar (10.17)
2. Romanian (10.39)
3. Bosnian (11.01)
4. Bulgarian (11.17)
5. Serbian (11.56)
6. North_Italian (12.04)
7. Albanian_Tosk (12.36)
8. Macedonian (13.03)



Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum

Log02 should give you a better fit. Log02 is closer than Log04 from what I have seen.

[blevins13]

Log02 should give you a better fit. Log02 is closer than Log04 from what I have seen.

Yes but Albanians are not the top match.

Here is

Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 11.99 - Log02_wgs
Top 98 % match vs all users


Closest Modern

1. Tuscan (5.516)
2. North_Italian (6.652)
3. Albanian_Tosk (9.258)
4. Kosovar (11.80)
5. Greek_Thessaly (11.97)
6. Italian_Abruzzo (12.44)
7. West_Sicilian (12.77)
8. Greek (12.93)



Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

[Angela]

I am not sure if you understood what I said.

If you want to compare Albanians with Illyrians start with South Illyrian, or Illyrian Proper. Since no sample have come yet from Albania , you may use Log04 to give you a hint, since is closer that the samples from Dalmatia. Albanian take their name from Albanoi tribe so first you should start with them or samples in their proximity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoi

Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 17.23 - Log04_wgs_trim5bp
Top 90 % match vs all users


Closest Modern

1. Kosovar (10.17)
2. Romanian (10.39)
3. Bosnian (11.01)
4. Bulgarian (11.17)
5. Serbian (11.56)
6. North_Italian (12.04)
7. Albanian_Tosk (12.36)
8. Macedonian (13.03)



Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum

No one has any idea which of those two samples is closest to the "Illyrians"; maybe neither of them is...

You realize that, right????

Get back to me when you have a sample from the right period, with the right burial context. Then we'll see who is closest to them. Not, by the way, who is descended from people like him, but who has similar proportions of ancient populations.

[Çerç]

No one has any idea which of those two samples is closest to the "Illyrians"; maybe neither of them is...

You realize that, right????

Get back to me when you have a sample from the right period, with the right burial context. Then we'll see who is closest to them. Not, by the way, who is descended from people like him, but who has similar proportions of ancient populations.

A valid point which should apply to the all other samples as well, including Myceneans.

[blevins13]

No one has any idea which of those two samples is closest to the "Illyrians"; maybe neither of them is...

You realize that, right????

Get back to me when you have a sample from the right period, with the right burial context. Then we'll see who is closest to them. Not, by the way, who is descended from people like him, but who has similar proportions of ancient populations.

You realizing that the samples that you are using to validate your point are geographically closer to Italy than Albania. I will get back to you when samples will came from Albania, but meanwhile stop drawing conclusions that Italian are closer to Illyrians that Albanians. They are closer to the Illyrian Dalmatian Tribe but not to all Illyrians, especially the South Illyrians, namely Albanoi.



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