Genetic study Ancient DNA of Roman Danubian Frontier and Slavic Migrations (Olalde 2021)

blevins13 said:
No one has denied that, i specified that Albanians as part of this continuum can be closer to the South Illyrians compared to NE Italians using Log4 and Log2 as hints. Is this such a wild speculation? Should I CUT IT OUT for this reason?


Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum
Click to expand...
Im with you in this one. I believe the Slavic input in Albanians is overestimated. Who do they use as an Albanian proxy, people from Korca?

Hopefully we?ll get more samples around Albania and we should calculate our own Slavic input considering that the majority of Albanians lived in remote areas and married within the region, as was the case in Italy.

By the way, did you receive infractions too? I got my first 2 for God knows what insult.
 
bronze age aegean
remains in G25 ( davidski)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867421003706



Distance to: Helladic_MBA:Log02
0.02523331 Greek_Thessaly
0.02642431 Italian_Tuscany
0.02680568 Italian_Piedmont
0.02711457 Italian_Lombardy
0.02791138 Italian_Marche
0.02845305 Italian_Liguria
0.02943631 Albanian
0.03011735 French_Corsica
0.03103996 Italian_Umbria
0.03223088 Greek_Macedonia
0.03232640 Italian_Bergamo
0.03374879 Italian_Lazio
0.03421376 Greek_Peloponnese
0.03432588 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03546127 Swiss_Italian
0.03594062 Italian_Veneto
0.03611853 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03699253 Italian_Molise
0.03787082 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03938887 Italian_Apulia
0.03939264 Rumelia_East
0.03941018 Macedonian:Central
0.04241476 Greek_Izmir
0.04333878 Greek_Laconia
0.04359595 Italian_Northeast


Distance to: Helladic_MBA:Log04
0.03338522 Macedonian:pelagonia1
0.03533605 Greek_Thessaly
0.03578505 Macedonian:East2
0.03745346 Gagauz
0.03778287 Greek_Macedonia
0.03797783 Italian_Northeast
0.03881694 Albanian
0.03883212 Italian_Piedmont
0.03909755 Bulgarian
0.03948434 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03986721 Romanian
0.03991323 Macedonian:Central
0.04069586 Swiss_Italian
0.04078406 Italian_Veneto
0.04141950 Rumelia_East
0.04155838 Italian_Liguria
0.04218237 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04228890 Italian_Lombardy
0.04322381 Italian_Bergamo
0.04355271 Italian_Tuscany
0.04426418 Macedonian:Northwest
0.04443579 Macedonian:Southeast
0.04545280 French_Provence
0.04654212 Montenegrin
0.04671440 Serbian

Distance to: Helladic_EBA:Mik15
0.07595865 Sardinian
0.08271601 Italian_Calabria
0.08298441 Italian_Jew
0.08382109 Italian_Campania
0.08448195 Sicilian_East
0.08480988 Italian_Apulia
0.08615882 Italian_Basilicata
0.08638623 Romaniote_Jew
0.08725117 Sephardic_Jew
0.08735623 Maltese
0.08789993 Italian_Lazio
0.08808007 Greek_Dodecanese
0.08892301 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.08937307 Italian_Abruzzo
0.09007834 Greek_Kos
0.09016055 Sicilian_West
0.09040410 Cypriot_B
0.09072775 Italian_Molise
0.09122491 French_Corsica
0.09179614 Greek_Laconia
0.09226700 Greek_Crete
0.09300389 Italian_Umbria
0.09325521 Tunisian_Jew
0.09328802 Italian_Marche
0.09437571 Moroccan_Jew

Distance to: Cycladic_EBA:Kou03
0.05204134 Greek_Kos
0.05385652 Greek_Dodecanese
0.05480986 Cypriot_B
0.05680599 Italian_Calabria
0.05856668 Italian_Campania
0.05971432 Romaniote_Jew
0.06059452 Italian_Jew
0.06078801 Italian_Basilicata
0.06180311 Greek_Crete
0.06216075 Italian_Apulia
0.06230512 Cypriot
0.06317933 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.06476211 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.06480381 Sephardic_Jew
0.06506609 Sicilian_East
0.06632712 Greek_Izmir
0.06704354 Maltese
0.06706089 Italian_Abruzzo
0.06824511 Italian_Molise
0.06931194 Greek_Laconia
0.07018232 Italian_Lazio
0.07288819 Italian_Umbria
0.07298538 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.07331913 Greek_Cappadocia
0.07365125 Ashkenazi_Poland

Distance to: Minoan_EBA:pta08
0.07794846 Italian_Jew
0.07888632 Romaniote_Jew
0.07966648 Greek_Dodecanese
0.08001202 Cypriot_B
0.08029646 Italian_Calabria
0.08085760 Sicilian_East
0.08124932 Italian_Campania
0.08180170 Sephardic_Jew
0.08291480 Italian_Apulia
0.08321596 Greek_Kos
0.08375053 Cypriot
0.08429738 Italian_Basilicata
0.08538057 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.08657638 Greek_Crete
0.08690987 Maltese
0.08819190 Tunisian_Jew
0.08870051 Italian_Abruzzo
0.08913941 Italian_Lazio
0.08930199 Sicilian_West
0.08979417 Italian_Molise
0.08995290 Sardinian
0.09259749 Greek_Izmir
0.09262980 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.09272088 Greek_Laconia
0.09292286 Libyan_Jew
 
There they go again. Do you see? Some of our Albanian members don't understand what I'm saying, so they insult me, and then are surprised when they get an infraction.

KEEP IT CIVIL when you disagree. Maybe you don't really understand what the other person is saying, or maybe the cause of the disagreement is that you are saying as a given what is impossible to know, or maybe you are guilty of cherry picking data to find the one that best supports your initial preference.

Don't fly off the handle and insult the other person and imagine all sorts of nefarious motives. Maybe you're used to that in dealing with people from the Balkans, but I have no ulterior motives here, harbor no animosity toward the Albanians as a people.

I specifically said that that if you find a certain autosomal signature in an area, and thousands of years later you find the same autosomal signature, then there is descent. The question is, what are the differences?

Do you need it carved in stone?

I also specifically said that when two groups are similar, it doesn't necessarily mean that one descends from the other. They may just share similar ancestry, i.e. northern Italians and Illyrians. Instead of immediately jumping to the wrong conclusions, try to absorb what has been written and what it means. Plus, there's the fact that north eastern Italians may have been more "Med" like before they got a dose of Langobard. That's where that influence is strongest, although still a minor component.

For the record, Dushman, I gave you only one infraction, and it was completely deserved.
 
kingjohn said:
bronze age aegean
remains in G25 ( davidski)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867421003706
Distance to: Helladic_MBA:Log02
0.02523331 Greek_Thessaly
0.02642431 Italian_Tuscany
0.02680568 Italian_Piedmont
0.02711457 Italian_Lombardy
0.02791138 Italian_Marche
0.02845305 Italian_Liguria
0.02943631 Albanian
0.03011735 French_Corsica
0.03103996 Italian_Umbria
0.03223088 Greek_Macedonia
0.03232640 Italian_Bergamo
0.03374879 Italian_Lazio
0.03421376 Greek_Peloponnese
0.03432588 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03546127 Swiss_Italian
0.03594062 Italian_Veneto
0.03611853 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03699253 Italian_Molise
0.03787082 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03938887 Italian_Apulia
0.03939264 Rumelia_East
0.03941018 Macedonian:Central
0.04241476 Greek_Izmir
0.04333878 Greek_Laconia
0.04359595 Italian_Northeast
Distance to: Helladic_MBA:Log04
0.03338522 Macedonian:pelagonia1
0.03533605 Greek_Thessaly
0.03578505 Macedonian:East2
0.03745346 Gagauz
0.03778287 Greek_Macedonia
0.03797783 Italian_Northeast
0.03881694 Albanian
0.03883212 Italian_Piedmont
0.03909755 Bulgarian
0.03948434 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03986721 Romanian
0.03991323 Macedonian:Central
0.04069586 Swiss_Italian
0.04078406 Italian_Veneto
0.04141950 Rumelia_East
0.04155838 Italian_Liguria
0.04218237 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04228890 Italian_Lombardy
0.04322381 Italian_Bergamo
0.04355271 Italian_Tuscany
0.04426418 Macedonian:Northwest
0.04443579 Macedonian:Southeast
0.04545280 French_Provence
0.04654212 Montenegrin
0.04671440 Serbian
Distance to: Helladic_EBA:Mik15
0.07595865 Sardinian
0.08271601 Italian_Calabria
0.08298441 Italian_Jew
0.08382109 Italian_Campania
0.08448195 Sicilian_East
0.08480988 Italian_Apulia
0.08615882 Italian_Basilicata
0.08638623 Romaniote_Jew
0.08725117 Sephardic_Jew
0.08735623 Maltese
0.08789993 Italian_Lazio
0.08808007 Greek_Dodecanese
0.08892301 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.08937307 Italian_Abruzzo
0.09007834 Greek_Kos
0.09016055 Sicilian_West
0.09040410 Cypriot_B
0.09072775 Italian_Molise
0.09122491 French_Corsica
0.09179614 Greek_Laconia
0.09226700 Greek_Crete
0.09300389 Italian_Umbria
0.09325521 Tunisian_Jew
0.09328802 Italian_Marche
0.09437571 Moroccan_Jew
Distance to: Cycladic_EBA:Kou03
0.05204134 Greek_Kos
0.05385652 Greek_Dodecanese
0.05480986 Cypriot_B
0.05680599 Italian_Calabria
0.05856668 Italian_Campania
0.05971432 Romaniote_Jew
0.06059452 Italian_Jew
0.06078801 Italian_Basilicata
0.06180311 Greek_Crete
0.06216075 Italian_Apulia
0.06230512 Cypriot
0.06317933 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.06476211 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.06480381 Sephardic_Jew
0.06506609 Sicilian_East
0.06632712 Greek_Izmir
0.06704354 Maltese
0.06706089 Italian_Abruzzo
0.06824511 Italian_Molise
0.06931194 Greek_Laconia
0.07018232 Italian_Lazio
0.07288819 Italian_Umbria
0.07298538 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.07331913 Greek_Cappadocia
0.07365125 Ashkenazi_Poland
Distance to: Minoan_EBA:pta08
0.07794846 Italian_Jew
0.07888632 Romaniote_Jew
0.07966648 Greek_Dodecanese
0.08001202 Cypriot_B
0.08029646 Italian_Calabria
0.08085760 Sicilian_East
0.08124932 Italian_Campania
0.08180170 Sephardic_Jew
0.08291480 Italian_Apulia
0.08321596 Greek_Kos
0.08375053 Cypriot
0.08429738 Italian_Basilicata
0.08538057 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.08657638 Greek_Crete
0.08690987 Maltese
0.08819190 Tunisian_Jew
0.08870051 Italian_Abruzzo
0.08913941 Italian_Lazio
0.08930199 Sicilian_West
0.08979417 Italian_Molise
0.08995290 Sardinian
0.09259749 Greek_Izmir
0.09262980 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.09272088 Greek_Laconia
0.09292286 Libyan_Jew
Click to expand...

What is clear from the list is the division between the Early Bronze Age and the Middle Bronze Age after the arrival of the steppe peoples, which was emphasized in the paper.

Dodecad K12b already told me that Log 2 is really close to Tuscans, which is why it's my closest match on Jovialis' complete set of samples.

There is Calabria again, always near the top in terms of similarity to Early Bronze Age and Sardinians. Years and years ago Dienekes pointed out that Calabrians were second only to Sardinians in their similarity to pre-northern invasion peoples. My husband will be very pleased, and he'll start teasing me about being part German again. :)

A word of caution before everyone goes off impulsively. This doesn't mean that Thessalians, for example, or Tuscans, are unchanged since the Early Bronze Age.

Nice to see he finally acknowledges that the "Corsican" sample to which I always have a high similarity is French admixed. Core Corsicans are different, although they show Tuscan influence, as the Corsican paper pointed out.
 
Angela said:
There they go again. Do you see? Some of our Albanian members don't understand what I'm saying, so they insult me, and then are surprised when they get an infraction.

KEEP IT CIVIL when you disagree. Maybe you don't really understand what the other person is saying, or maybe the cause of the disagreement is that you are saying as a given what is impossible to know, or maybe you are guilty of cherry picking data to find the one that best supports your initial preference.

Don't fly off the handle and insult the other person and imagine all sorts of nefarious motives. Maybe you're used to that in dealing with people from the Balkans, but I have no ulterior motives here, harbor no animosity toward the Albanians as a people.

I specifically said that that if you find a certain autosomal signature in an area, and thousands of years later you find the same autosomal signature, then there is descent. The question is, what are the differences?

Do you need it carved in stone?

I also specifically said that when two groups are similar, it doesn't necessarily mean that one descends from the other. They may just share similar ancestry, i.e. northern Italians and Illyrians. Instead of immediately jumping to the wrong conclusions, try to absorb what has been written and what it means. Plus, there's the fact that north eastern Italians may have been more "Med" like before they got a dose of Langobard. That's where that influence is strongest, although still a minor component.

For the record, Dushman, I gave you only one infraction, and it was completely deserved.
Click to expand...
On the contrary, it?s you who doesn?t understand what we?re saying.

1) I said that Arvanites settled in the Greek islands, thus mainland Greeks must have done the same. Got attacked by you immediately, asked for genetic evidence, ?you people??. Luckily a Greek member confirmed.

2) We proved that the model which makes Albanians 40% Slavic seems weird, and after I requested some members to test Italians and French, they also came out as 35-50% Slavic. Got attacked again by you with unnecessary lectures and using CAPITAL LETTERS as if you?re speaking to some retarded person.

3) Blevins indicated the similarities with Log2 and Log4, you accused him of calling them Illyrian, he clearly said ?NO, I?m not calling them Illyrian, Thessaly is just very close to Albania geographically?. Lots of insults from your side simply because you didn?t understand and on top of that you insist.

4) Ironically, now I got a 2 points infractions for telling blevins not to disagree with you. And apparently I deserve it.

Talk about fairness and being motivated to ask questions or share your opinion. Sounds like censorship in communist Albania. I?m done disagreeing with you. You are right, you win. Please don?t quote me anymore, I?d like to continue the discussions with other members. Feel free to ban me for saying this, I?ll continue the discussions somewhere else.
 
Sorry, wrong thread.
 
Angela said:
What is clear from the list is the division between the Early Bronze Age and the Middle Bronze Age after the arrival of the steppe peoples, which was emphasized in the paper.

Dodecad K12b already told me that Log 2 is really close to Tuscans, which is why it's my closest match on Jovialis' complete set of samples.

There is Calabria again, always near the top in terms of similarity to Early Bronze Age and Sardinians. Years and years ago Dienekes pointed out that Calabrians were second only to Sardinians in their similarity to pre-northern invasion peoples. My husband will be very pleased, and he'll start teasing me about being part German again. :)

A word of caution before everyone goes off impulsively. This doesn't mean that Thessalians, for example, or Tuscans, are unchanged since the Early Bronze Age.

Nice to see he finally acknowledges that the "Corsican" sample to which I always have a high similarity is French admixed. Core Corsicans are different, although they show Tuscan influence, as the Corsican paper pointed out.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Among Italians, I'd say they're closest to the "Minoan-side" the the Pan-Mediterranean continuum, thus having the least "northern" influence brought in by groups like Latins and Etruscans at the other side of the continuum, who had a minority of Steppe influence.
 
I think inevitably, we'll find out that the Dardanian genepool was probably a primary Illyrian core with a considerable amount of Thracian admixture the most east you go, now whether this helps Albanians find their origin. It seemingly helps us understand what we knew already, I can only guess that somewhere down the line, we'll eventually figure it out. The question that does arise, is whether Albanians descend from a western front, near the coast where heavily latinization occured, and retracted to the east, somewhere in dardania where latinization was not as impactful, I'm just speculating.
 
Jovialis said:
Indeed, Among Italians, I'd say they're closest to the "Minoan-side" the the Pan-Mediterranean continuum, thus having the least "northern" influence brought in by groups like Latins and Etruscans at the other side of the continuum, who had a minority of Steppe influence.
Click to expand...

Sarno et al. 2021, and Aneli et al. 2021 confirm that the pan-Mediterranean continuum is indeed represented by the population admixtures I present below:

ONagPuX.jpg



Graphic by me (MTA is not a very reliable source, but here is a good use of their map nonetheless):
XUsM0SP.png


VdBAtVR.png


To me, it is likely that the father of ORD001 was similar to perhaps one of these Balkan_IA people.
 
Also, another thing I wanted to bring up is the interprations of the Jireček line, in fact Skok places it lower where it sits closer in modern day Albania, somewhere near Via Egnatia..
 
Jovialis said:
Albanians were Southern Italian-like until they received about 20% Slavic admixture it seems, to me.
Click to expand...

The “speculation” was for south Illyrians, could they also be south Italian like and more close to Albanians?


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Maybe we are some sort of Illyro-Panoni-Thracian complex, that can be the situation, linguistically I don't know how well it fits, but it does certainly make me think.
 
Jovialis said:
Indeed, Among Italians, I'd say they're closest to the "Minoan-side" the the Pan-Mediterranean continuum, thus having the least "northern" influence brought in by groups like Latins and Etruscans at the other side of the continuum, who had a minority of Steppe influence.
Click to expand...

With the addition of the original "Italics", yes, completely agree.

Here's a relief map of Calabria. Take a look especially at the very "toe" of the boot. That's where the last Greek speakers in Calabria reside.
thumbnail.jpg


Relief map of Italy:
italy-relief-map-3002919.jpg


Explains a lot about all the population isolates in Italy, and perhaps, if there was a "resurgence" of pre-Empire genes, as there was a "resurgence" of European Hunter-Gatherer genes after the arrival of the European farmers, and a "resurgence" of Neolithic genes after the arrival of the steppe people, it's because there were a lot of places to hide out or at least keep your autosomal signature intact. Of course, eventually most people moved out of those mountains, even if, in the case of my father's family, not until the 1920s.
 
Jovialis said:
Sarno et al. 2021, and Aneli et al. 2021 confirm that the pan-Mediterranean continuum is indeed represented by the population admixtures I present below:

ONagPuX.jpg



Graphic by me (MTA is not a very reliable source, but here is a good use of their map nonetheless):
XUsM0SP.png


VdBAtVR.png


To me, it is likely that the father of ORD001 was similar to perhaps one of these Balkan_IA people.
Click to expand...

Are you supporting the Anatolian route for Mycenaean or am I wrong?


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
kingjohn said:
bronze age aegean
remains in G25 ( davidski)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867421003706



Distance to:Helladic_MBA:Log02
0.02523331Greek_Thessaly
0.02642431Italian_Tuscany
0.02680568Italian_Piedmont
0.02711457Italian_Lombardy
0.02791138Italian_Marche
0.02845305Italian_Liguria
0.02943631Albanian
0.03011735French_Corsica
0.03103996Italian_Umbria
0.03223088Greek_Macedonia
0.03232640Italian_Bergamo
0.03374879Italian_Lazio
0.03421376Greek_Peloponnese
0.03432588Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03546127Swiss_Italian
0.03594062Italian_Veneto
0.03611853Italian_Abruzzo
0.03699253Italian_Molise
0.03787082Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03938887Italian_Apulia
0.03939264Rumelia_East
0.03941018Macedonian:Central
0.04241476Greek_Izmir
0.04333878Greek_Laconia
0.04359595Italian_Northeast


Distance to:Helladic_MBA:Log04
0.03338522Macedonian:pelagonia1
0.03533605Greek_Thessaly
0.03578505Macedonian:East2
0.03745346Gagauz
0.03778287Greek_Macedonia
0.03797783Italian_Northeast
0.03881694Albanian
0.03883212Italian_Piedmont
0.03909755Bulgarian
0.03948434Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03986721Romanian
0.03991323Macedonian:Central
0.04069586Swiss_Italian
0.04078406Italian_Veneto
0.04141950Rumelia_East
0.04155838Italian_Liguria
0.04218237Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04228890Italian_Lombardy
0.04322381Italian_Bergamo
0.04355271Italian_Tuscany
0.04426418Macedonian:Northwest
0.04443579Macedonian:Southeast
0.04545280French_Provence
0.04654212Montenegrin
0.04671440Serbian

Distance to:Helladic_EBA:Mik15
0.07595865Sardinian
0.08271601Italian_Calabria
0.08298441Italian_Jew
0.08382109Italian_Campania
0.08448195Sicilian_East
0.08480988Italian_Apulia
0.08615882Italian_Basilicata
0.08638623Romaniote_Jew
0.08725117Sephardic_Jew
0.08735623Maltese
0.08789993Italian_Lazio
0.08808007Greek_Dodecanese
0.08892301Ashkenazi_Germany
0.08937307Italian_Abruzzo
0.09007834Greek_Kos
0.09016055Sicilian_West
0.09040410Cypriot_B
0.09072775Italian_Molise
0.09122491French_Corsica
0.09179614Greek_Laconia
0.09226700Greek_Crete
0.09300389Italian_Umbria
0.09325521Tunisian_Jew
0.09328802Italian_Marche
0.09437571Moroccan_Jew

Distance to:Cycladic_EBA:Kou03
0.05204134Greek_Kos
0.05385652Greek_Dodecanese
0.05480986Cypriot_B
0.05680599Italian_Calabria
0.05856668Italian_Campania
0.05971432Romaniote_Jew
0.06059452Italian_Jew
0.06078801Italian_Basilicata
0.06180311Greek_Crete
0.06216075Italian_Apulia
0.06230512Cypriot
0.06317933Ashkenazi_Germany
0.06476211Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.06480381Sephardic_Jew
0.06506609Sicilian_East
0.06632712Greek_Izmir
0.06704354Maltese
0.06706089Italian_Abruzzo
0.06824511Italian_Molise
0.06931194Greek_Laconia
0.07018232Italian_Lazio
0.07288819Italian_Umbria
0.07298538Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.07331913Greek_Cappadocia
0.07365125Ashkenazi_Poland

Distance to:Minoan_EBA:pta08
0.07794846Italian_Jew
0.07888632Romaniote_Jew
0.07966648Greek_Dodecanese
0.08001202Cypriot_B
0.08029646Italian_Calabria
0.08085760Sicilian_East
0.08124932Italian_Campania
0.08180170Sephardic_Jew
0.08291480Italian_Apulia
0.08321596Greek_Kos
0.08375053Cypriot
0.08429738Italian_Basilicata
0.08538057Ashkenazi_Germany
0.08657638Greek_Crete
0.08690987Maltese
0.08819190Tunisian_Jew
0.08870051Italian_Abruzzo
0.08913941Italian_Lazio
0.08930199Sicilian_West
0.08979417Italian_Molise
0.08995290Sardinian
0.09259749Greek_Izmir
0.09262980Ashkenazi_Poland
0.09272088Greek_Laconia
0.09292286Libyan_Jew
Click to expand...

Can you check Log04 as well?

In MTA this comes close to Albanians:

Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 17.23 - Log04_wgs_trim5bp
Top 90 % match vs all users


Closest Modern

1. Kosovar (10.17)
2. Romanian (10.39)
3. Bosnian (11.01)
4. Bulgarian (11.17)
5. Serbian (11.56)
6. North_Italian (12.04)
7. Albanian_Tosk (12.36)
8. Macedonian (13.03)



I did not notice you already did.

Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
blevins13 said:
Can you check Log04 as well?

In MTA this comes close to Albanians:

Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 17.23 - Log04_wgs_trim5bp
Top 90 % match vs all users


Closest Modern

1. Kosovar (10.17)
2. Romanian (10.39)
3. Bosnian (11.01)
4. Bulgarian (11.17)
5. Serbian (11.56)
6. North_Italian (12.04)
7. Albanian_Tosk (12.36)
8. Macedonian (13.03)


Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum
Click to expand...

Sorry? Log 4 is there.
 
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