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Thread: Ancient DNA of Roman Danubian Frontier and Slavic Migrations (Olalde 2021)

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Post Ancient DNA of Roman Danubian Frontier and Slavic Migrations (Olalde 2021)

    Here is the preprint of the new Reich lab paper Cosmopolitanism at the Roman Danubian Frontier, Slavic Migrations, and the Genomic Formation of Modern Balkan Peoples

    I have summarised the Y-DNA and mtDNA on this table.

    ID Location Date Y-DNA mtDNA
    I15527 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis 70-208 cal CE R1b-U106 H30b1
    I15528 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis .. T1a1n
    I15529 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis J1,J-Z2215,J-Z2217,J-CTS1026,J-Z1828,J-Z18463,J-Z18471,J-BY94 H11a2
    I15530 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis .. K1a2a
    I15531 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis 258-413 cal CE I1 H10a1
    I15532 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis T-L206,T-M70,T-L131 J2b1c
    I15533 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis 246-365 cal CE R1a-M417,R-Z645 V1a1
    I15534 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis .. H5
    I15535 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis .. H1b
    I15536 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis .. U5a1j
    I15486 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. T2
    I15490 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273 H6b
    I15491 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis H7
    I15492 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis R1b-U152,R-L2,R-Z258,R-Z367,R-L20 H7
    I15493 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. H8c
    I15494 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. H5a2
    I15495 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880,E-Z5017,E-Z5016,E-Y3762,E-CTS6377,E-CTS9320 H49
    I15498 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis H36
    I15499 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis 80-215 cal CE E-M78,E-Z1902,E-V12,E-Y2863,E-FGC14377,E-FGC14378,E-V32 L2a1j
    I15501 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. J1c1
    I15502 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis E-Z830,E-PF1962,E-M123 U3a2a1
    I15509 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. I4b
    I15510 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis G-PF3148 H26a1
    I15511 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. H
    I15512 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. X2+225
    I15514 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. U4a2a
    I15515 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis R1b-Z2103 K1a3a
    I15516 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis G-P303 H13a1a1
    I15517 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis 124-228 cal CE J2a-L26,J-PF5087,J-PF5160,J-L24,J-Y22662,J-L25,J-Z438,J-Z387,J-L70 HV
    I15485 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. H
    I15487 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. T1a
    I15488 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. H41a
    I15489 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis G-PF3148,G-PF3177,L91,G-Z6484,G-Z6284,G-Z6128,G-Y140837,G-Y140827 H
    I15496 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. T2b+16362
    I15497 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. J1c
    I15500 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis 129-247 cal CE .. R0a1a
    I15504 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880 H47a
    I15505 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. J1d1a1
    I15506 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. HV9+152
    I15507 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880 K1c2
    I15508 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. W6
    I15519 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. R0a2d
    I15503 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis .. U5a2c
    I15513 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880 H8c
    I15518 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273 U2e1a1
    I15520 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis R1a-M417,R-Z645 U5b2b
    I15521 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis G-P303 H
    I15522 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis .. H
    I15523 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis .. H+152
    I15524 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis I2c-L596,I-Y16649,I-Y16419 HV9+152
    I15525 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273 H13a1a1
    I15526 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis E-M123,E-M34,E-Z841,E-Z849,E-CTS1727,E-L791 H13a2b2
    I15549 Mediana 259-409 cal CE I1,I-Z58,I-Z59,I-CTS8647,Z60,Z140,Z141 H5b
    I15550 Mediana .. H41a
    I15544 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis 261-418 cal CE E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880 HV9
    I15545 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis 417-538 cal CE I1,I-Z58,I-Z59,I-CTS8647,Z60,Z140,Z141 H1
    I15546 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis J2b2a-L283,J-Z622,J-Z600,J-Z585,J-Z615,J-Z597 L2a1+143+16189 (16192)
    I15547 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis J2b2a-L283 H+152
    I15548 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis J2b2a-L283,J-Z585,J-Z615,J-Z597,J-Z638,J-Z1297,J-Z8421,J-Z631,J-Z1043 W+194
    I15551 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis 242-375 cal CE R1b-Z2103,R-Z2105 T1a
    I15552 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis R1b-Z2103,R-M12149,R-Z2106,R-Z2108,R-Z2110,R-CTS7556,R-Y5592,R-CTS1450 H1c
    I15553 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273 T2b25
    I15554 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880 H
    I15555 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis G-P303,G-L140,G-PF3346,G-PF3345,G-CTS342,G-FGC12126 [email protected]
    I15556 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis .. H10d
    I15537 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880,E-Z5017,E-Z5016,E-Y3762 H13a2a
    I15538 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis 892-989 cal CE R1b-P312,R-D99 H1e1a6
    I15539 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis R1b-P312,R-D99 H1e1a6,H1e1a6
    I15540 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis .. J1b1a1
    I15541 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis I2a1b-L621,I-CTS10936,I-S19848,I-CTS4002,I-CTS10228,I-Y3120 K1a4
    I15542 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis 897-1021 cal CE I2a1b-L621,I-CTS10936,I-S19848,I-CTS4002,I-CTS10228,I-Y3120 H9a
    I15543 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis J2-L26,J-Z6064,J-Z6055,J-Z6057,J-Y7013,J-Y7010 H1f+16093

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    4 members found this post helpful.
    thanks maciamo for sharing this important paper

    ). A local origin is supported by a high frequency of Ychromosome lineage E-V13, which has been hypothesized to have experienced a Bronze-to-IronAge expansion in the Balkans and is found in its highest frequencies in the present-day Balkans \. We interpret this cluster as the descendants of local Balkan Iron Age populations living atViminacium, where they represented an abundant ancestry group during the Early Imperial andlater periods (~47% of sampled individuals from the 1-550 CE)


    The other major cluster (44% of the samples from Viminacium between 1-250 CE) isrepresented by individuals who projected towards ancient and present-day EasternMediterranean groups in PCA (Figure 1A), close to ancient individuals from Rome duringImperial times . Their ancestry can be modelled as deriving deeply from Chalcolithic WesternAnatolian groups (Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.2), and we refer to this cluster as theNear Eastern-related cluster. The same signal of arrivals individuals with Anatolian/NearEastern ancestral origins is also evident in Rome during the same period , consistent with largescale gene-flow originating from the major eastern urban centers of the Empire (such asConstantinople, Antioch, Smyrna and Alexandria). These results suggest that immigration fromthe east was a common feature across urban centers in the Roman Empire, including in borderareas and large cities/military outposts such as Viminacium. Individuals with EasternMediterranean ancestry could have high social status: 3 out of the 4 individuals buried in twosarcophagi (each containing a male-female pair) with exceptionally rich grave goods at the Ritnecropolis in Viminacium belonged to the Near Eastern-related cluster, while the remainingone belonged to the Balkans Iron Age-related cluster. This kind of burial was common in theEastern Roman settlements for aristocratic members of society 20. Individuals from this clusterwere also more likely to be inhumated in a wooden coffin rather than freely buried, which couldalso be an indication of higher social prestige.

    The most remarkable outlier is male I15499, excavated at Pirivojnecropolis in Viminacium, who projects outside West Eurasian genetic diversity (Figure S7).When we incorporated African populations onto the PCA (Figure S8), he projected within thevariation of present-day East African populations and close to early Christians from NorthernSudan from 500-800 CE 21 who provide a good fit for his ancestry in qpAdm (Figure 2;Supplementary section 12.4). An Eastern African ancestral origin agrees with his uniparentalmarkers mtDNA L2a1j and Y-chromosome E1b-V32, both common in East Africa today 17,22.Archeological examination of I15499’s grave found an oil lamp depicting an eagle, the symbolof Roman legion (Figure S2C). Although lamps are a common finding in Viminacium graves 23,not many depict military iconography. We hypothesize that this male was a Roman legionary orauxiliary stationed at Viminacium. We cannot determine if he was a Roman citizen, althoughauxiliary military service for a prolonged period of time resulted in citizenship. Historicalevidence also points to African recruits being tapped to reinforce the Roman Danubian limes



    p.s
    the e-m123 individual I15526
    is e-L791 E1B1B12A1A4 ( not e-m84 i checked the supplemental)
    autosomally he belong to near east cluster
    it look like the east african outlier was e-v32

    I missed I15502 he could also be E-M84
    since he IS E-M123 also
    and he is defiently e-z830 derived branch
    Last edited by kingjohn; 31-08-21 at 20:02.
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

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    Regular Member Johane Derite's Avatar
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    5 members found this post helpful.
    Just look at all those "Balkan IA" clusters, majorly E-V13, R1b-Z2103, and J2b-L283:


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    All samples from ancient Moesia ............now known as Serbia

    purely thracians as Moesia was one of the 4 regions of Thracian people, others Dacia, Getae ( romania and moldova ) and Odyssian ( bulgaria )
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-Z282

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Just look at all those "Balkan IA" clusters, majorly E-V13, R1b-Z2103, and J2b-L283:


    Also thisImage1630429949.051523.jpg


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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    thanks maciamo for sharing this important paper

    ). A local origin is supported by a high frequency of Ychromosome lineage E-V13, which has been hypothesized to have experienced a Bronze-to-IronAge expansion in the Balkans and is found in its highest frequencies in the present-day Balkans \. We interpret this cluster as the descendants of local Balkan Iron Age populations living atViminacium, where they represented an abundant ancestry group during the Early Imperial andlater periods (~47% of sampled individuals from the 1-550 CE)


    The other major cluster (44% of the samples from Viminacium between 1-250 CE) isrepresented by individuals who projected towards ancient and present-day EasternMediterranean groups in PCA (Figure 1A), close to ancient individuals from Rome duringImperial times . Their ancestry can be modelled as deriving deeply from Chalcolithic WesternAnatolian groups (Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.2), and we refer to this cluster as theNear Eastern-related cluster. The same signal of arrivals individuals with Anatolian/NearEastern ancestral origins is also evident in Rome during the same period , consistent with largescale gene-flow originating from the major eastern urban centers of the Empire (such asConstantinople, Antioch, Smyrna and Alexandria). These results suggest that immigration fromthe east was a common feature across urban centers in the Roman Empire, including in borderareas and large cities/military outposts such as Viminacium. Individuals with EasternMediterranean ancestry could have high social status: 3 out of the 4 individuals buried in twosarcophagi (each containing a male-female pair) with exceptionally rich grave goods at the Ritnecropolis in Viminacium belonged to the Near Eastern-related cluster, while the remainingone belonged to the Balkans Iron Age-related cluster. This kind of burial was common in theEastern Roman settlements for aristocratic members of society 20. Individuals from this clusterwere also more likely to be inhumated in a wooden coffin rather than freely buried, which couldalso be an indication of higher social prestige.

    The most remarkable outlier is male I15499, excavated at Pirivojnecropolis in Viminacium, who projects outside West Eurasian genetic diversity (Figure S7).When we incorporated African populations onto the PCA (Figure S8), he projected within thevariation of present-day East African populations and close to early Christians from NorthernSudan from 500-800 CE 21 who provide a good fit for his ancestry in qpAdm (Figure 2;Supplementary section 12.4). An Eastern African ancestral origin agrees with his uniparentalmarkers mtDNA L2a1j and Y-chromosome E1b-V32, both common in East Africa today 17,22.Archeological examination of I15499’s grave found an oil lamp depicting an eagle, the symbolof Roman legion (Figure S2C). Although lamps are a common finding in Viminacium graves 23,not many depict military iconography. We hypothesize that this male was a Roman legionary orauxiliary stationed at Viminacium. We cannot determine if he was a Roman citizen, althoughauxiliary military service for a prolonged period of time resulted in citizenship. Historicalevidence also points to African recruits being tapped to reinforce the Roman Danubian limes



    p.s
    the e-m123 individual
    is e-L791 E1B1B12A1A4 ( not e-m84 i checked the supplemental)
    autosomally he belong to near east cluster
    it look like the east african outlier was e-v32




    Thanks kingjohn for summing up the paper. The running gag with E-V13 is over.


    The exotic East African male, is Horner-like. He is E-V32 which is a dominant hp among Somalis, Eritreans etc.

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Just look at all those "Balkan IA" clusters, majorly E-V13, R1b-Z2103, and J2b-L283:
    It's not surprising considering that these samples do come from the Balkans, and the Balkan cluster are all dated prior to the Slavic migrations.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    thanks maciamo for sharing this important paper

    ). A local origin is supported by a high frequency of Ychromosome lineage E-V13, which has been hypothesized to have experienced a Bronze-to-IronAge expansion in the Balkans and is found in its highest frequencies in the present-day Balkans \. We interpret this cluster as the descendants of local Balkan Iron Age populations living atViminacium, where they represented an abundant ancestry group during the Early Imperial andlater periods (~47% of sampled individuals from the 1-550 CE)


    The other major cluster (44% of the samples from Viminacium between 1-250 CE) isrepresented by individuals who projected towards ancient and present-day EasternMediterranean groups in PCA (Figure 1A), close to ancient individuals from Rome duringImperial times . Their ancestry can be modelled as deriving deeply from Chalcolithic WesternAnatolian groups (Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.2), and we refer to this cluster as theNear Eastern-related cluster. The same signal of arrivals individuals with Anatolian/NearEastern ancestral origins is also evident in Rome during the same period , consistent with largescale gene-flow originating from the major eastern urban centers of the Empire (such asConstantinople, Antioch, Smyrna and Alexandria). These results suggest that immigration fromthe east was a common feature across urban centers in the Roman Empire, including in borderareas and large cities/military outposts such as Viminacium. Individuals with EasternMediterranean ancestry could have high social status: 3 out of the 4 individuals buried in twosarcophagi (each containing a male-female pair) with exceptionally rich grave goods at the Ritnecropolis in Viminacium belonged to the Near Eastern-related cluster, while the remainingone belonged to the Balkans Iron Age-related cluster. This kind of burial was common in theEastern Roman settlements for aristocratic members of society 20. Individuals from this clusterwere also more likely to be inhumated in a wooden coffin rather than freely buried, which couldalso be an indication of higher social prestige.

    The most remarkable outlier is male I15499, excavated at Pirivojnecropolis in Viminacium, who projects outside West Eurasian genetic diversity (Figure S7).When we incorporated African populations onto the PCA (Figure S8), he projected within thevariation of present-day East African populations and close to early Christians from NorthernSudan from 500-800 CE 21 who provide a good fit for his ancestry in qpAdm (Figure 2;Supplementary section 12.4). An Eastern African ancestral origin agrees with his uniparentalmarkers mtDNA L2a1j and Y-chromosome E1b-V32, both common in East Africa today 17,22.Archeological examination of I15499’s grave found an oil lamp depicting an eagle, the symbolof Roman legion (Figure S2C). Although lamps are a common finding in Viminacium graves 23,not many depict military iconography. We hypothesize that this male was a Roman legionary orauxiliary stationed at Viminacium. We cannot determine if he was a Roman citizen, althoughauxiliary military service for a prolonged period of time resulted in citizenship. Historicalevidence also points to African recruits being tapped to reinforce the Roman Danubian limes



    p.s
    the e-m123 individual
    is e-L791 E1B1B12A1A4 ( not e-m84 i checked the supplemental)
    autosomally he belong to near east cluster
    it look like the east african outlier was e-v32




    The Channeled-Ware people were the world's first mass iron producers. So Channeled Ware was probably more than 80% E-V13.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    Thanks kingjohn for summing up the paper. The running gag with E-V13 is over.


    The exotic East African male, is Horner-like. He is E-V32 which is a dominant hp among Somalis, Eritreans etc.


    here are some important clusters

    https://i.imgur.com/q6DrPKL.png

    and the geneflow dates

    https://i.imgur.com/aAfDRg6.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    All samples from ancient Moesia ............now known as Serbia

    purely thracians as Moesia was one of the 4 regions of Thracian people, others Dacia, Getae ( romania and moldova ) and Odyssian ( bulgaria )
    Definitely Moldova. When you are right you are right.


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  11. #11
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    It's not surprising considering that these samples do come from the Balkans, and the Balkan cluster are all dated prior to the Slavic migrations.
    This is from your E-V13 page on Eupedia:

    "There are at least three distinct sources of E-V13 in Italy.

    The first would be the Bronze Age Italic tribes from Central Europe, who in all logic would have possessed at least some E-V13 lineages before they invaded the Italian peninsula. Proto-Italics would have been a predominantly R1b-U152 tribe, but also carried a minority of E-V13, G2a-L140 (L13, L1264 and Z1816 subclades) and J2a1-L70 (PF5456 and Z2177 subclades). The second would be the ancient Greeks, who heavily colonized southern Italy from the 9th century BCE until the Roman conquest in the 3rd century BCE. The third are the Goths. As a Germanic tribe they might have carried a small percentage of E-V13. But that percentage very certainly increased after spending several centuries in Central and Southeast Europe and assimilating Proto-Slavs and Balkanic people before invading Italy. The Goths settled over all the Italian peninsula. They would have brought typically Germanic lineages like I1 and R1b-U106, but also the Proto-Slavic R1a-CTS1211, which is now found uniformly in 1 to 2% of the population. Since R1a-CTS1211 is not originally Germanic, it is likely that the Goths also brought a small but noticeable percentage of assimilated lineages from the Balkans, including E-V13 and J2b1 (I2a1b-CTS10228 would have come later from the East Slavic migrations from Ukraine during the Early Middle Ages, hence its absence from Italy, apart from a few coastal areas facing the Adriatic Sea)."

    I think now we have enough evidence for this to be updated and add balkan groups like Illyrians, Thracians, etc, to the list of E-V13 spreaders. Far more probable than Bronze Age Italic tribes and Goths and Greeks.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Hawk's Avatar
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    Are the BAM files available? If yes someone should check the subclades.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    A comment from the paper.

    Individuals from the first cluster fall on an area of the PCA delimited by the “Balkan Iron Agecline” (Figure 1A). Consistent with this, we model the ancestry of this Balkans Iron Age Clusteras predominantly deriving from Iron Age (IA) groups from nearby areas in the Balkans, with67% Aegean Bronze Age-related ancestry and the remainder Slovenia Iron Age-related ancestry(Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.1). A
    another one

    Excavations of Iron AgeBalkans prior to the Roman rule showed the dead where predominantly cremated 18, but thischanged in Viminacium where inhumation became common suggesting a high degree ofRomanization of the local society.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Hawk's Avatar
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    Authors are indirectly assuming that Roman time Viminacium population was 47% E-V13, that means that Early to Late Iron Age population there was more than ~80% E-V13 since the remaining ~40% are Eastern Mediterranean comers. And there is absolutely nothing less to assume that they were the Gava-Urnfield/Channeled-Ware people coming down from Carpathian/Beskidy mountains during Late Bronze Age to Iron Age transition.

    The last example of a close relationship between the Žuto Brdo – Girla Mare and Gavafinds is demonstrated in the necropolis of Pećinein the vicinity of Kostolac (Figure 1, 1).19 The excavator D. Jacanović observed that in all undisturbed contexts (or stratigraphic units) the ŽutoBrdo – Girla Mare, Hügelgräber and Gava typicalceramic forms were found together.20 This particularly applies to the four cremated burials withincrusted and burnished pottery found togetherin same context. A similar mix was documentedin 13 pits, most probably dedicated to ritual atthis site. These instances caused some archaeologists to classify the last phase of the Žuto Brdo– Girla Mare culture in the territory of the IronGates as belonging to the period of Ha A1, whichaccording to chronology of M. Garašanin covers the transitional period between Late Bronze andEarly Iron Ages.

    In favour of its end in the late 12th century BC.6Contrary to the situation with the �uto Brdo � Girla Mare culture, the Gava culture complex, identified through the presence of the channelled and burnished pottery, is in the Serbian archae-ology considered as the trigger of the transition from the Late Bronze to the Early Iron Age.

    http://www.anubih.ba/godisnjak/god47...%20Kapuran.pdf

    Where is Riverman btw?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    This is from your E-V13 page on Eupedia:

    "There are at least three distinct sources of E-V13 in Italy.

    The first would be the Bronze Age Italic tribes from Central Europe, who in all logic would have possessed at least some E-V13 lineages before they invaded the Italian peninsula. Proto-Italics would have been a predominantly R1b-U152 tribe, but also carried a minority of E-V13, G2a-L140 (L13, L1264 and Z1816 subclades) and J2a1-L70 (PF5456 and Z2177 subclades). The second would be the ancient Greeks, who heavily colonized southern Italy from the 9th century BCE until the Roman conquest in the 3rd century BCE. The third are the Goths. As a Germanic tribe they might have carried a small percentage of E-V13. But that percentage very certainly increased after spending several centuries in Central and Southeast Europe and assimilating Proto-Slavs and Balkanic people before invading Italy. The Goths settled over all the Italian peninsula. They would have brought typically Germanic lineages like I1 and R1b-U106, but also the Proto-Slavic R1a-CTS1211, which is now found uniformly in 1 to 2% of the population. Since R1a-CTS1211 is not originally Germanic, it is likely that the Goths also brought a small but noticeable percentage of assimilated lineages from the Balkans, including E-V13 and J2b1 (I2a1b-CTS10228 would have come later from the East Slavic migrations from Ukraine during the Early Middle Ages, hence its absence from Italy, apart from a few coastal areas facing the Adriatic Sea)."

    I think now we have enough evidence for this to be updated and add balkan groups like Illyrians, Thracians, etc, to the list of E-V13 spreaders. Far more probable than Bronze Age Italic tribes and Goths and Greeks.

    I don't recall any Greeks in Italy prior to 600BC ...........corinthian greeks settled in sicily and southern Italy ..ie taranto , spartans also arrived during the pelopenesse wars

    Italic tribes on the adriatic seem to be the same markers as ancient bronze-age ( and prior ) dalmatians , ie..G2a2, I2a2 and later R1b and J2b .............the E looks like ironage times in italy

    Goths where already mixed with sarmatians on the black sea area for over 300 years , before going to Italy......I doubt we can claim any ydna marker for them


    Pointless to refer to anything after the fall of Rome............ydna markers arrived in italy from everywhere

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    interesting is who plotting in fig A

    shows republican Rome closer to Croatia, Slovenia and Spain

    while Roman empire ( Imperial Rome ) shows it is closer with Anatolia and the Levant

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    interesting is who plotting in fig A

    shows republican Rome closer to Croatia, Slovenia and Spain

    while Roman empire ( Imperial Rome ) shows it is closer with Anatolia and the Levant
    Logical


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

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    If I’m reading correctly, two or more of the J2a haplogroup samples are L70. *update: only one of the samples is L70. That is one of my great grandfathers’ haplogroup, so it’s interesting on a personal level.

    Here are models of modern Balkan populations when testing admixture types, from the supplementals. They look about like what other studies imply or have found.
    C705DEAC-1251-4D0B-84C8-D3A029E62225.jpg
    Last edited by Ralphie Boy; 01-09-21 at 04:20.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Nice paper!

    All three J2b-L283 samples are from the archeological site of Timacum Minus, Roman period, and all three are under "Balkans IA Cluster".

    One of them is more specifically J-Z631>Z1043! Some think this J2b-L283 subclade expanded with the Celts. I held this theory myself a while back, though, it wasn't my main one. We need older J-Z631 aDNA to know for sure, but this makes it unlikely, although some of its lineages could've been incorporated with Celtic expansions to the west..
    Y-DNA: J-L283
    Maternal Y-DNA: E-V13

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The paper was also discussed here:

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...cium-etc/page2

    It's important to have the whole quote for some of these conclusions as some people still don't seem to get it; or perhaps they didn't actually read the paper:

    I'll highlight so it can't be missed.

    ""The Roman Empire expanded through the Mediterranean shores and brought human mobility and cosmopolitanism across this inland sea to an unprecedented scale. However, if this was also common at the Empire frontiers remains undetermined. The Balkans and Danube River were of strategic importance for the Romans acting as an East-West connection and as a defense line against “barbarian” tribes. We generated genome-wide data from 70 ancient individuals from present-day Serbia dated to the first millennium CE; including Viminacium, capital of Moesia Superior province. Our analyses reveal large scale-movements from Anatolia during Imperial rule, similar to the pattern observed in Rome, and cases of individual mobility from as far as East Africa. Between ~250-500 CE, we detect gene-flow from Central/Northern Europe harboring admixtures of Iron Age steppe groups. Tenth-century CE individuals harbored NorthEastern European-related ancestry likely associated to Slavic-speakers, which contributed >20% of the ancestry of today's Balkan people.

    "A key feature of the data is two parallel genetic clines running along PC1 (Fig. 1). We call the first the “Balkan Iron Age cline”, with southern Balkan populations such as Bronze Age and Iron Age Aegean groups on the right extreme closer to Near Eastern populations (larger values in PC1), northern populations such as Slovenian Iron Age groups on the left extreme closer to Central European populations (smaller values in PC1), and a Bulgarian Iron Age individual and Bronze Age and Iron Age Croatian groups taking intermediate positions but closer to the southern and northern extremes, respectively. This Iron Age cline is mirrored by the “presentday Balkan cline”, which is shifted towards the upper-left of the plot (lower values in PC1 and higher values in PC2) with respect to the Iron Age cline but maintains the same geographical pattern of southern Balkan populations such as the Greeks on the right, and northern Balkan populations such as Croatians on the left. This suggests that present-day populations are not direct descendants without admixture of Iron Age groups from the same region, and that similar demographic shaped Balkan populations from North to South over the past 2,000 years."

    "Consistent with this, we model the ancestry of this Balkans Iron Age Clusteras predominantly deriving from Iron Age (IA) groups from nearby areas in the Balkans, with 67% Aegean Bronze Age-related ancestry and the remainder Slovenia Iron Age-related ancestry (Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.1). A local origin is supported by a high frequency of Ychromosome lineage E-V13, which has been hypothesized to have experienced a Bronze-to-Iron Age expansion in the Balkans and is found in its highest frequencies in the present-day Balkans 17. We interpret this cluster as the descendants of local Balkan Iron Age populations living at Viminacium, where they represented an abundant ancestry group during the Early Imperial and later periods (~47% of sampled individuals from the 1-550 CE).

    "The other major cluster (44% of the samples from Viminacium between 1-250 CE) is represented by individuals who projected towards ancient and present-day Eastern Mediterranean groups in PCA (Figure 1A), close to ancient individuals from Rome during Imperial times 3. Their ancestry can be modelled as deriving deeply from Chalcolithic Western Anatolian groups (Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.2), and we refer to this cluster as the Near Eastern-related cluster. The same signal of arrivals individuals with Anatolian/Near Eastern ancestral origins is also evident in Rome during the same period 3, consistent with largescale gene-flow originating from the major eastern urban centers of the Empire (such as Constantinople, Antioch, Smyrna and Alexandria). These results suggest that immigration from the east was a common feature across urban centers in the Roman Empire, including in border areas and large cities/military outposts such as Viminacium. Individuals with Eastern Mediterranean ancestry could have high social status: 3 out of the 4 individuals buried in two sarcophagi (each containing a male-female pair) with exceptionally rich grave goods at the Rit necropolis in Viminacium belonged to the Near Eastern-related cluster, while the remaining one belonged to the Balkans Iron Age-related cluster. This kind of burial was common in the Eastern Roman settlements for aristocratic members of society 20. Individuals from this cluster were also more likely to be inhumated in a wooden coffin rather than freely buried, which could also be an indication of higher social prestige."
    Three individuals from ~1-250 CE did not fit into the two major clusters. Two males from Viminacium could be modelled using Iron Age individuals from Northwest Europe as their only source (Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.5), pointing to a Northwestern European origin also supported by the R1b-U106 paternal lineage, which was not been detected in the Balkans in earlier periods but was found at high frequencies in Germanic-speaking areas, both in ancient and present-day individuals. The most remarkable outlier is male I15499, excavated at Pirivoj necropolis in Viminacium, who projects outside West Eurasian genetic diversity (Figure S7). When we incorporated African populations onto the PCA (Figure S8), he projected within the variation of present-day East African populations and close to early Christians from Northern Sudan from 500-800 CE 21 who provide a good fit for his ancestry in qpAdm (Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.4). An Eastern African ancestral origin agrees with his uniparental markers mtDNA L2a1j and Y-chromosome E1b-V32, both common in East Africa today 17,22. Archeological examination of I15499’s grave found an oil lamp depicting an eagle, the symbol of Roman legion (Figure S2C). Although lamps are a common finding in Viminacium graves 23, not many depict military iconography. We hypothesize that this male was a Roman legionary or auxiliary stationed at Viminacium. We cannot determine if he was a Roman citizen, although auxiliary military service for a prolonged period of time resulted in citizenship. Historical evidence also points to African recruits being tapped to reinforce the Roman Danubian limes 24."

    "At Slog, we found one directly radiocarbon dated individual with a clear Near Eastern ancestral origin, likely from the Northern Levant (Figure 1B Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.3), as well as directly radiocarbon dated individuals belonging to the Balkans Iron Age-related cluster. This confirms that the two major ancestry clusters from 1-250 CE period co-existed at least three centuries in the Danubian limes. The legacy of Balkans Iron Age groups persists in admixed form in later groups including present-day Balkan populations (see below), whereas the Near Eastern-related ancestral legacy eventually ebbed in favor of Northern/Eastern European-related ancestry, similar to the patterns observed in the city of Rome itself 3."

    "These findings support the hypothesis that such individuals were part of a cosmopolitan group comprising a large proportion of individuals in Imperial towns and cities who over time were demographically overwhelmed by populations in the countryside or by faster reproductive rates of rural or populations without as much Near Eastern influence."

    "The legacy of Balkans Iron Age groups persists in admixed form in later groups including present-day Balkan populations (see below), whereas the Near Eastern-related ancestral legacy eventually ebbed in favor of Northern/Eastern European-related ancestry, similar to the patterns observed in the city of Rome itself 3. These findings support the hypothesis that such individuals were part of a cosmopolitan group comprising a large proportion of individuals in Imperial towns and cities who over time were demographically overwhelmed by populations in the countryside or by faster reproductive rates of rural or populations without as much Near Eastern influence.

    "We found highly similar ancestry trajectories across time in Rome and Viminacium, with a strong Anatolian/Near Eastern influence during the Imperial period that resulted in a large portion of the analyzed individuals in both cities having Near Eastern ancestry, followed by a resurgence of local ancestry after the Empire’s decline 3. These results highlight how mobility from the Easternmost areas of the Empire was a common feature of large cities and towns from the capital city of Rome to the Danubian limes, but that demographically these populations were a veneer without long-lasting influences, suggesting either that they were greatly outnumbered by local rural populations, or that their reproductive rates were much lower than that of local rural populations, consistent with evidence that cities and towns in the Roman empire did not successfully reproduce themselves demographically and instead constantly had to be repopulated through immigration 29. In the Imperial period, genetic data suggest that a large proportion of this immigration derived from the Eastern Mediterranean highlighting the centrality of this region in the period of intense human connectivity during Imperial Rome. Conversely, the decline in the geographic scale and number of people involved in transMediterranean movements following the Empire’s decline is reflected in the fact that in later periods, Eastern Mediterranean influence largely disappeared in both the city of Rome and in the large towns of the Balkans."

    (Finally, someone got it!)

    We also observe new ancestry during this period at Mediana, Slog necropolis at Timacum Minus and Viminacium (mostly at Pecine and Vise Grobalja necropoli), as early as the 4thcentury CE. A cluster of 10 individuals from these necropoli is shifted in PCA from the Balkans Iron Age-related cluster toward Central/Northern European ancient and present-day populations (Figure 1B). This group which we refer to as Central/Northern European cluster, could be modeled as deriving from two main sources: ~38% related to the local Balkans Iron Age substratum (we use the Balkans Iron Age-related cluster as a proxy for this type of ancestry) and 50% Central/Northern European ancestry (we use as a proxy individuals from a roughly contemporaneous Langobard-associated cemetery in Hungary 25). To obtain a fitting model, a significant proportion of ancestry (~14%) related to contemporaneous nomadic steppe groups (proxied in our analysis by Late Sarmatians from the Eastern Pontic-Caspian steppe 26) is also needed (Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.6). This is even more evident in two individuals from the Pecine necropolis in Viminacium (referred to as Steppe cluster), who could be modelled as deriving ~43% of ancestry from the Balkans Iron Age-related cluster and 57% ancestry from Late Sarmatian-related Steppe groups (Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.7). Ychromosome lineages also provide evidence for gene-flow, as 5 of 7 males in the Central/Northern European and Steppe cluster belonged to two lineages not found in the Balkans earlier: haplogroup I1 with a strong Northern European distribution and haplogroup R1a-Z645, common in the Steppe during the Iron Age and early 1st millennium CE 26–28. The Roman Empire had a prolonged history of contact with Germanic tribes, whose homelands were in Northern Europe between the Rhine and Vistula rivers. During the Great Migration period groups that coalesced as the Goths moved southwards, and settled at the Black Sea north coast prior to their entry in the Roman Empire 6. Our observations are consistent with the hypothesis that such tribes interacted with Steppe-related nomadic populations reaching the Eastern European plateau, and incorporated their ancestry into their gene pool before moving into the Balkans. However, the occurrence and manner of this interaction needs to be clarified with a more thorough sampling of this region and time period.

    "The remaining five individuals clustered in the West-Eurasian PCA (Figure 1C) on top of the “present-day Balkan genetic cline”, close to present-day Serbianspeaking individuals that we newly genotyped for this study, but this apparent similarity is a projection artifact as their ancestry could not be fitted using the same qpAdm models (Supplementary section 12.8). To understand this, we performed a PCA using present-day Germanic- and Slavic-speaking populations (Supplementary section 9; Figure S9) that we expected would be sensitive to more recent drift separating Central, Northern and Eastern European populations. The Kuline individuals are more shifted towards present-day Slavicspeaking populations as compared to individuals in the Central/Northern European cluster, agreeing with the presence of Y-chromosome lineage I2-L621 in Kuline, which is common in present-day Slavic-speaking groups and absent in earlier periods. In light of these results, we modeled the ancestry of the Kuline individuals as a mixture of 56% deriving from the local Balkan Iron Age substratum and 44% deriving from Northeastern European Iron Age groups, and obtained a good statistical fit (Figure 2; Supplementary section 12.8). Our results point to a strong demographic impact of Eastern European groups in the Balkans during the Medieval period, likely associated to the arrival of Slavic-speaking populations. Yet, our results rule out a complete demographic replacement, as we observe a significant portion of local Iron Age Balkan ancestry in Kuline individuals. Interestingly, we found sex bias when modeling the X chromosome of the individuals of this necropolis (Supplementary section 12.8). Perhaps the immigrant groups were constituted by a higher number of women, who therefore impacted more greatly in the demographics of the post-Roman Balkans. However, these findings have only been observed in the Kuline individuals with North-European related ancestry (n=5), we suggest more data will be needed to obtain more evidence Slavic sex bias in the Balkans. To explore whether this Northeastern European ancestry signal persisted in present-day Balkan and Aegean populations, we attempted to model present day groups by using the same qpAdmmodel used for the Kuline individuals (Supplementary section 13). Present-day Serbs, Croats and the rest of central/northern Balkan populations yielded a similar ancestral composition as the Kuline individuals, with approximately 50% Northeastern European-related ancestry admixed with ancestry related to Iron Age native Balkan population (Figure 3), implying substantial population continuity in the region over the last 1,000 years. This ancestry signal significantly decreases in more southern groups, but it is still presents in populations from mainland Greece (~30%) and even the Aegean islands (7-20%)."

    (I think we already postulated about 30% "Slavic" in Thessaly years ago in Dienekes' day.)


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    If I’m reading correctly, two or more of the J2a haplogroup samples are L70. That is one of my great grandfathers’ haplogroup, so if true it’s interesting on a personal level.
    Here are models of modern Balkan populations when testing admixture types, from the supplementals. They look about like what other studies imply or have found.
    C705DEAC-1251-4D0B-84C8-D3A029E62225.jpg
    Yes, there's one J-L70 sample. Appears to be Western Anatolian based on the "NE Cluster" he is placed in. A great find! Oldest J-L70 ancient sample to date!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    This is from your E-V13 page on Eupedia:

    "There are at least three distinct sources of E-V13 in Italy.

    The first would be the Bronze Age Italic tribes from Central Europe, who in all logic would have possessed at least some E-V13 lineages before they invaded the Italian peninsula. Proto-Italics would have been a predominantly R1b-U152 tribe, but also carried a minority of E-V13, G2a-L140 (L13, L1264 and Z1816 subclades) and J2a1-L70 (PF5456 and Z2177 subclades).
    Yeah, I see no reason for the Proto-Italics to have carried J-L70. It's unlikely. What is likely, however, is that we're going to see J-L70 emerge amongst an Eastern Mediterranean group like the Hittites, Hurrians, Mycenaeans or Amorites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Just look at all those "Balkan IA" clusters, majorly E-V13, R1b-Z2103, and J2b-L283:


    just like a certain ethnicity that exists in the balkans...

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Peloponnesians are reported te be 29% shifted towards Russia in the study compared to Empuries Samples (and 36% for Macedonia). I bet they push over 30% with Poles or Ukranians.
    So the non academic calculators were accurate all the time.

    Also Serbs are 48% shifted towards Russians compared to natives after the Germanic and Celtic invasions. The Slavs that occupied Serbia were probably more southern than modern Russians. So their overall Slavic ancestry seem to be roughly 50%, not inflated by Germanic or Celtic invasions as some assumed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    Yes, there's one J-L70 sample. Appears to be Western Anatolian based on the "NE Cluster" he is placed in. A great find! Oldest J-L70 ancient sample to date!
    Yes, one L70 sample. I was looking at a blurry line in the article’s supplement section and mistook it for a second sample. I believe this sample was referred to as J-L24 when this paper was mentioned a while ago. Glad it turned out to L70 and older than the Rome sample. I hope one day we can get an L70 subclade out of this sample.

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