Genetic study Ancient DNA of Roman Danubian Frontier and Slavic Migrations (Olalde 2021)

Jovialis said:
Albanians were Southern Italian-like until they received about 20% Slavic admixture it seems, to me.
Click to expand...

Not really, they probably lacked WHG anyway.
 
Angela said:
What are you talking about????

Did you read the paper? Where did it say the Balkanites were descended from the wealthy Near Eastern cluster of, probably, administrators etc? They specifically said they WEREN'T.

If you're talking about the make up of the Balkan Iron Age cluster have you never heard that Greece and the Balkans were populated by farmers from Anatolia in the Neolithic ( given that the Balkans were one of the few places where you couldn't find many hunter-gatherers at all, except up by the gates)??? They formed the great culture known as "Old Europe", master metal workers,, builders of cities and artists. Now they're people to be proud of...

Where on earth have you been for the last seven years or so?

In terms of the Illyrians, Northeastern Italians are closer to Illyrians than the Albanians are. Heck, I'm part Tuscan and I'M closer to the Illyrians than the Albanians are...I'm also really close to the admixed Scythians, and I'm way to the west of the east/west divide in Italy.

As for those "steppe heavy" Eastern Balkans populations, unless you have a crystal ball there's no way in hell you know what they were like autosomally, because we don't have any samples from them.

I haven't read such an unsupported post in ages. Congratulations.

Stop spreading baseless and erroneous information on this thread.
Click to expand...

Which Illyrians, are you closer to the Illyrians Proper, how you establish that. In MTA Albanians are very close to Log04 , so I would expect them to be very close to Illyrii proprii/proprie dicti.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
Constantine said:
I think it more accurate to say that people in today's Albania were southern Italian-like until the Ghegs showed up.
Click to expand...

Sure, these Gegs that are close to Log04, disappeared and showed up again. It is all magical.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
blevins13 said:
Which Illyrians, are you closer to the Illyrians Proper, how you establish that. In MTA Albanians are very close to Log04 , so I would expect them to be very close to Illyrii proprii/proprie dicti.


Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum
Click to expand...

Northeastern Italians are way closer; even people like Stuvane, who is from Romagna. It has to do with the east/west divide in Italy created by the Apennini.

I don't think they're accurate, but since you like MTA:
Roman (3.604)
Roman + Illyrian (4.023)
Roman + Samnite (4.53)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (4.553)
Samnite + Illyrian (5.859)
Roman Hispania + Roman (7.088)
Samnite (7.89)
Gallo-Roman (9.674)
Illyrian (10.27)
Roman Hispania (13.46)


1. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 3.604 - SZ43 [FONT=&quot]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users







2. Central Roman
630 AD - Genetic Distance: 4.502 - CL36 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



3. Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 5.422 - Log02_cap
Top
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match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



4. Tuscan Medieval Villa Magna Italy
905 AD - Genetic Distance: 5.953 - R60 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



5. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro
930 BC - Genetic Distance: 6.192 - R1 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



6. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 6.355 - TAQ003
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



7. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.736 - SZ36 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



8. Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.046 - Log02_wgs
Top
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match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



9. Ancient Venosa Samnite
400 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.89 - VEN016
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



10. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.333 - SZ37 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



11. Late Roman Empire Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.36 - R107 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



12. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.42 - TAQ009
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



13. Tivoli Palace Late Renaissance
1650 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.512 - R970 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



14. Etruria Iron Age Italy
1000 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.556 - ETR013
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



15. Roman Empire Monterotondo
165 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.711 - R1540
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



16. Etruscan Populonia
400 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.743 - POP001
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



17. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.777 - SZ31 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



18. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.932 - SZ32 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



19. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 9.424 - TAQ011
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



20. Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.478 - R36 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



21. Medieval Italy Abbadia SS Plague
1348 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.536 - BSS31
Top
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match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



22. Tuscan Medieval Cancelleria Basilica
1350 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.548 - R1290 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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23. Imperial Rome Cluana Ancona
165 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.566 - R835 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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24. Gallo-Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.674 - SZ28 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
98 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



25. Central Roman
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.687 - CL121 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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26. Etruria Iron Age Italy
1000 BC - Genetic Distance: 9.699 - ETR003
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match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



27. Avar Szolad Hungary
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.712 - SZ1 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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28. North Roman Warrior
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.03 - NS3c [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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29. Scythian Southern Moldova
270 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.07 - scy192 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
98 %​
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30. Byzantine Roman Warrior
605 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.16 - NS3b [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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31. Skeleton Lake Traveller - Hellenic
1805 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.17 - I3404 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



32. Illyrian / Dalmatian
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.27 - I3313 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
96 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]




Since you also seem to like K13, which I don't...

Distance to:Angela
2.93497871SZ43_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1431_ybp
5.41744405CL36_longobard_north_italy
5.73090743I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp
6.05641808R1287_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
6.59609733SZ37_Hungary_Langobard_1447_ybp
6.59807548SZ36_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp
6.86632362R33_Lazio_Rome_Early_Medieval_Italy
6.93144285R1_Abruzzo_Teramo_Late_Bronze_Age_Italy
7.32957707R55_Lazio_Rome_Late_Medieval_Italy
7.39407871I7424_morisco_
7.40771220I7041_Hungary_BA_brother.I7043_4300_ybp
7.63038007CL23_longobard_north_italy
7.68359942Greece_MBA_Log02
7.83203039R36_Lazio_Rome_Italy_Late_Antiquity
7.92385007SZ31_Longobard_M_T1a1a_PF5620_U4c2a_60th_century
8.08064973I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
8.12940342R1285_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
8.34281128R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
8.41153969col018_col018_M_R1b0Z2123_T2b_
8.50960046I7425_morisco_
8.61828869scy300_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG
8.62188494I3499_Croatia_Starcevo_EN_o_4725_ybp
8.71884167STR535_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1491_ybp
8.89206388I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp
8.97791178SZ32_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp


Those aren't Langobards; they're Romans.

K12b from Vahaduo
Distance to:Angela
5.95522460I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
5.96391650I8475_NE_Iberia_RomP_atypical
6.06853360I3313_Balkans_BronzeAge
6.16497364R1285_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
6.20277357R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
6.36923857Szolad43
6.86863888I3499_NWBalkans_PannonianPlain_Vucedol_EN
6.88056684R111_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
6.99997143I2176_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.16744724I1979_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy
7.41179465I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.69315930Collegno36
8.27704053scy197_Scythian
8.39610029Szolad28
8.75462164Bul6_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.83820117scy192_Scythian
8.85023164Bul10_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.99692725Szolad31
9.01075469R1283_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
9.01258010Collegno23
9.10639336R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
9.23910169I4331_Balkans_BronzeAge
9.25401534R120_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
9.40637550R36_Late_Antiquity_Celio
9.44550687R33_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto
[/FONT]
From Jovialis, the most complete set using K12b:
Distance to:Angela
5.04939600MOK17A:Zegarac_2021
5.96391650I8475:Olalde_2019
6.06853360Croatia_LBA:I3313:Mathieson_2018
6.10643922Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome:R111:Antonio_2019
6.11085919C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1287:Antonio_2019
6.16497364C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1285:Antonio_2019
6.36923857Szolad43:Amorim_2018
6.39419268ETR010:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
6.66446547TAQ022:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
6.71269692Bulgaria_EBA:I2176:Mathieson_2018
6.86863888Vucedol:I3499:Mathieson_2018
7.09575930I1979:Olalde_2018
7.26718653POP001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
7.33042973Bulgaria_EBA:I2175:Mathieson_2018
7.66150116MA2197:Damgaard_2018
7.69315930Collegno36:Amorim_2018
7.90459993MOK31:Zegarac_2021
8.05195628VET001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.13190630Scythian:scy197:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
8.26525257TAQ006:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.33593426TAQ020:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.36580540Armenoi_Crete:I9123:Lazaridis_2017
8.39610029Szolad28:Amorim_2018
8.80221563Hungary_BA:I7041:Olalde_2018
8.83255342Bulgaria_EBA:Bul6:Mathieson_2018
8.88801440ETR006:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.96155678TAQ009:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.99692725Szolad31:Amorim_2018
9.01104322C6-Celio_Late_Antiquity:R36:Antonio_2019
9.01258010Collegno23:Amorim_2018
9.04024889VEU001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.05317624Scythian:scy192:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
9.10909436Latini_IA:R1016:Antonio_2019
9.17791915C7-Mausole_di_Augusto_Late_Antiquity:R33:Antonio_2019
9.20749152Bulgaria_EBA:Bul10:Mathieson_2018
9.25401534C6-S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_Late_Antiquity:R120:Antonio_2019
9.27407677ETR013:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.28820758TAQ011:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.31211576Scythian:scy300:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
9.35244888Croatia_EMBA:I4331:Mathieson_2018
9.36452882VOL001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.44751819I5015:Olalde_2018
9.50057893CSN013:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.58759615C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1283:Antonio_2019
9.59114696Bulgaria_BA:I2520:Mathieson_2018
9.65696122Croatia_EMBA:I4332:Mathieson_2018
9.65707513Beaker_Central_Europe:I2364:Olalde_2018
9.77791900C7-Crypta_Balbi_Late_Antiquity:R110:Antonio_2019
9.87484177Protovillanovan_IA:R1:Antonio_2019
9.91709131ans007:Sánchez-Quinto_2019


Target: Angela
Distance: 0.5327% / 0.53268546 | ADC: 0.25x RC

23.7Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome
19.9TAQ006
15.8TAQ022
10.9MOK17A
10.4Baden_LCA
7.9I8475
6.5I3587
4.9Latini_IA



Target: Angela
Distance: 0.5327% / 0.53268546 | ADC: 0.25x RC

23.7Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome
19.9TAQ006
15.8TAQ022
10.9MOK17A
10.4Baden_LCA
7.9I8475
6.5I3587
4.9Latini_IA
 
Ralphie Boy said:
The Roman Greek clusters or is close to the haplogroup J2a-L70 fellow from Viminacium. The Antonio et al. Rome L70 C5 sample R136 plots between Cyprus and south Italy. These two look like modern Aegean islanders or Cypriots. It is not surprising, according to YFull, with a modern basal sample in the Levant and many in Turkey. As far as my own L70 in my bloodline, I have no idea what are the subbranches, but this ancestor may have from the Levant or Anatolia at some point, with the eastern Roman contacts.
Click to expand...

J2 L70 is probably Anatolian and/or greek in origin, as the Finocchio paper stated on 2018. If you check on Yfull ''live'' you can see the two basal samples at the moment are from Spain and Albania. It was probably spread to western Europe through classical greeks on the IX century BCE, although its first expansion, specially on the eastern Mediterranean, could have been with the Myceaneans and/or other Aegean/Anatolian people. Maybe L70 was part of Magna Graecia (we will hopefully have further news from the incoming papers), and then part of the big roman expansion all over Europe, as I personally think that is the case of the Viminacium individual.
 
Constantine said:
I think it more accurate to say that people in today's Albania were southern Italian-like until the Ghegs showed up.
Click to expand...


Thats a misnomer, you mean the proto-Albanians.
 
I never gave it much thought, but it's interesting that I'm closest on Jovialis' 12b to someone from the Maros Culture in the Bronze Age.

EBA necropolis of Mokrin, located near the town of Kikinda in the northern Banat, Serbia. The necropolis was used by a population belonging to the Maros culture (2700–1500 cal BC), which encompasses a set of communities extending through southeastern Hungary, western Romania, and northern Serbia37 (Fig. 1; Supplementary information 1). Radiocarbon dating indicates that the Mokrin necropolis was used for 300 years, from around 2100–1800 cal BC3

Distance to:MOK17A:Zegarac_2021
4.55975877Italian_Romagna
4.79056364French_Corsica
4.86831593Italian_Tuscany
5.84622819Italian_Marche
6.07696470Italian_Emilia
6.50433701Italian_Liguria
6.89936954Italian_Lazio
8.70247666Italian_Lombardy
9.95629951Italian_Piedmont
9.97372548Italian_Veneto
10.24577474Albanian
11.18326428Albanian_Kosovo
 
^^
Olalde et al 2019 ( Doubtless a Roman from Roman Era Empuries in Catalonia)

Distance to:I8475:Olalde_2019
5.28160960French_Corsica
5.50402580Italian_Liguria
6.36328531Italian_Emilia
6.74143902Italian_Tuscany
7.01267424Italian_Lombardy
7.79796127Italian_Piedmont
8.50914214Italian_Romagna
9.16421846Italian_Veneto
9.93606562Spanish_Canarias
10.10349259Swiss_Italian
10.76134583Italian_Marche
10.93044830Portuguese
11.32834498Italian_Lazio
 
Angela said:
I never gave it much thought, but it's interesting that I'm closest on Jovialis' 12b to someone from the Maros Culture in the Bronze Age.

EBA necropolis of Mokrin, located near the town of Kikinda in the northern Banat, Serbia. The necropolis was used by a population belonging to the Maros culture (2700–1500 cal BC), which encompasses a set of communities extending through southeastern Hungary, western Romania, and northern Serbia37 (Fig. 1; Supplementary information 1). Radiocarbon dating indicates that the Mokrin necropolis was used for 300 years, from around 2100–1800 cal BC3

Distance to:MOK17A:Zegarac_2021
4.55975877Italian_Romagna
4.79056364French_Corsica
4.86831593Italian_Tuscany
5.84622819Italian_Marche
6.07696470Italian_Emilia
6.50433701Italian_Liguria
6.89936954Italian_Lazio
8.70247666Italian_Lombardy
9.95629951Italian_Piedmont
9.97372548Italian_Veneto
10.24577474Albanian
11.18326428Albanian_Kosovo
Click to expand...

I am guessing that is the L283 sample. Earliest European L283 to date.
 
blevins13 said:
Which Illyrians, are you closer to the Illyrians Proper, how you establish that. In MTA Albanians are very close to Log04 , so I would expect them to be very close to Illyrii proprii/proprie dicti.


Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum
Click to expand...


the term Illyrii proprii/proprie dicti. was only done by Pliny the Elder in AD times to describe people south of southern Dalmatians ..............no one else used this term
"Illyrii Proprie Dicti" were the Illyrians proper, so called by Pliny (23–79 AD) in his Natural History. They later formed the Docleatae. They were the Taulantii, the Pleraei or Pyraei, the Endirudini, Sasaei, Grabaei, Labeatae.

The Greeks wrote .....Ancient Greek writers used the name "Illyrian" to describe peoples between the Liburnians and Epirus. 4th-century BC Greek writers clearly separated the people along the Adriatic coast from the Illyrians,
Clearly indicating only the Dalmatians as Illyrian.............because Epirus is where the bulk of modern albania and NW greece are today ............the Epirote tribes where 14 in total

Roman Illyricum comprised of all tribes between the Histrians of Istria , Slovenia through the Liburnians of north Croatia , through the Dalmatians of southern Croatia , through all of Montenegro to the Drin river ...............south of this was the Epirotes as per Roman writers


The 4 year long, Great illyrian revolt against the Romans was only by Dalmatian and Pannonian tribes against the Roman Empire
 
torzio said:
the term Illyrii proprii/proprie dicti. was only done by Pliny the Elder in AD times to describe people south of southern Dalmatians ..............no one else used this term
"Illyrii Proprie Dicti" were the Illyrians proper, so called by Pliny (23–79 AD) in his Natural History. They later formed the Docleatae. They were the Taulantii, the Pleraei or Pyraei, the Endirudini, Sasaei, Grabaei, Labeatae.

The Greeks wrote .....Ancient Greek writers used the name "Illyrian" to describe peoples between the Liburnians and Epirus. 4th-century BC Greek writers clearly separated the people along the Adriatic coast from the Illyrians,
Clearly indicating only the Dalmatians as Illyrian.............because Epirus is where the bulk of modern albania and NW greece are today ............the Epirote tribes where 14 in total

Roman Illyricum comprised of all tribes between the Histrians of Istria , Slovenia through the Liburnians of north Croatia , through the Dalmatians of southern Croatia , through all of Montenegro to the Drin river ...............south of this was the Epirotes as per Roman writers


The 4 year long, Great illyrian revolt against the Romans was only by Dalmatian and Pannonian tribes against the Roman Empire
Click to expand...

Sure man whatever you say.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
Angela said:
Northeastern Italians are way closer; even people like Stuvane, who is from Romagna. It has to do with the east/west divide in Italy created by the Apennini.

I don't think they're accurate, but since you like MTA:
Roman (3.604)
Roman + Illyrian (4.023)
Roman + Samnite (4.53)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (4.553)
Samnite + Illyrian (5.859)
Roman Hispania + Roman (7.088)
Samnite (7.89)
Gallo-Roman (9.674)
Illyrian (10.27)
Roman Hispania (13.46)


1. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 3.604 - SZ43 [FONT=&quot]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users







2. Central Roman
630 AD - Genetic Distance: 4.502 - CL36 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



3. Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 5.422 - Log02_cap
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



4. Tuscan Medieval Villa Magna Italy
905 AD - Genetic Distance: 5.953 - R60 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



5. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro
930 BC - Genetic Distance: 6.192 - R1 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



6. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 6.355 - TAQ003
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



7. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.736 - SZ36 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



8. Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.046 - Log02_wgs
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



9. Ancient Venosa Samnite
400 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.89 - VEN016
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



10. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.333 - SZ37 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



11. Late Roman Empire Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.36 - R107 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



12. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.42 - TAQ009
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



13. Tivoli Palace Late Renaissance
1650 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.512 - R970 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



14. Etruria Iron Age Italy
1000 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.556 - ETR013
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



15. Roman Empire Monterotondo
165 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.711 - R1540
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



16. Etruscan Populonia
400 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.743 - POP001
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



17. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.777 - SZ31 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



18. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.932 - SZ32 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



19. Etruscan Tarquinii Italy
800 BC - Genetic Distance: 9.424 - TAQ011
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



20. Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.478 - R36 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



21. Medieval Italy Abbadia SS Plague
1348 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.536 - BSS31
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



22. Tuscan Medieval Cancelleria Basilica
1350 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.548 - R1290 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



23. Imperial Rome Cluana Ancona
165 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.566 - R835 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



24. Gallo-Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.674 - SZ28 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
98 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



25. Central Roman
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.687 - CL121 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



26. Etruria Iron Age Italy
1000 BC - Genetic Distance: 9.699 - ETR003
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



27. Avar Szolad Hungary
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.712 - SZ1 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



28. North Roman Warrior
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.03 - NS3c [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
99 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



29. Scythian Southern Moldova
270 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.07 - scy192 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
98 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



30. Byzantine Roman Warrior
605 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.16 - NS3b [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



31. Skeleton Lake Traveller - Hellenic
1805 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.17 - I3404 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
100 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]



32. Illyrian / Dalmatian
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.27 - I3313 [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Top
96 %​
match vs all users [FONT=&quot][/FONT]




Since you also seem to like K13, which I don't...

Distance to:Angela
2.93497871SZ43_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1431_ybp
5.41744405CL36_longobard_north_italy
5.73090743I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp
6.05641808R1287_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
6.59609733SZ37_Hungary_Langobard_1447_ybp
6.59807548SZ36_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp
6.86632362R33_Lazio_Rome_Early_Medieval_Italy
6.93144285R1_Abruzzo_Teramo_Late_Bronze_Age_Italy
7.32957707R55_Lazio_Rome_Late_Medieval_Italy
7.39407871I7424_morisco_
7.40771220I7041_Hungary_BA_brother.I7043_4300_ybp
7.63038007CL23_longobard_north_italy
7.68359942Greece_MBA_Log02
7.83203039R36_Lazio_Rome_Italy_Late_Antiquity
7.92385007SZ31_Longobard_M_T1a1a_PF5620_U4c2a_60th_century
8.08064973I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
8.12940342R1285_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
8.34281128R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
8.41153969col018_col018_M_R1b0Z2123_T2b_
8.50960046I7425_morisco_
8.61828869scy300_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG
8.62188494I3499_Croatia_Starcevo_EN_o_4725_ybp
8.71884167STR535_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1491_ybp
8.89206388I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp
8.97791178SZ32_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp


Those aren't Langobards; they're Romans.

K12b from Vahaduo
Distance to:Angela
5.95522460I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
5.96391650I8475_NE_Iberia_RomP_atypical
6.06853360I3313_Balkans_BronzeAge
6.16497364R1285_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
6.20277357R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
6.36923857Szolad43
6.86863888I3499_NWBalkans_PannonianPlain_Vucedol_EN
6.88056684R111_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
6.99997143I2176_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.16744724I1979_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy
7.41179465I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.69315930Collegno36
8.27704053scy197_Scythian
8.39610029Szolad28
8.75462164Bul6_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.83820117scy192_Scythian
8.85023164Bul10_Balkans_BronzeAge
8.99692725Szolad31
9.01075469R1283_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
9.01258010Collegno23
9.10639336R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
9.23910169I4331_Balkans_BronzeAge
9.25401534R120_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
9.40637550R36_Late_Antiquity_Celio
9.44550687R33_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto
[/FONT]
From Jovialis, the most complete set using K12b:
Distance to:Angela
5.04939600MOK17A:Zegarac_2021
5.96391650I8475:Olalde_2019
6.06853360Croatia_LBA:I3313:Mathieson_2018
6.10643922Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome:R111:Antonio_2019
6.11085919C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1287:Antonio_2019
6.16497364C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1285:Antonio_2019
6.36923857Szolad43:Amorim_2018
6.39419268ETR010:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
6.66446547TAQ022:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
6.71269692Bulgaria_EBA:I2176:Mathieson_2018
6.86863888Vucedol:I3499:Mathieson_2018
7.09575930I1979:Olalde_2018
7.26718653POP001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
7.33042973Bulgaria_EBA:I2175:Mathieson_2018
7.66150116MA2197:Damgaard_2018
7.69315930Collegno36:Amorim_2018
7.90459993MOK31:Zegarac_2021
8.05195628VET001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.13190630Scythian:scy197:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
8.26525257TAQ006:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.33593426TAQ020:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.36580540Armenoi_Crete:I9123:Lazaridis_2017
8.39610029Szolad28:Amorim_2018
8.80221563Hungary_BA:I7041:Olalde_2018
8.83255342Bulgaria_EBA:Bul6:Mathieson_2018
8.88801440ETR006:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.96155678TAQ009:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.99692725Szolad31:Amorim_2018
9.01104322C6-Celio_Late_Antiquity:R36:Antonio_2019
9.01258010Collegno23:Amorim_2018
9.04024889VEU001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.05317624Scythian:scy192:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
9.10909436Latini_IA:R1016:Antonio_2019
9.17791915C7-Mausole_di_Augusto_Late_Antiquity:R33:Antonio_2019
9.20749152Bulgaria_EBA:Bul10:Mathieson_2018
9.25401534C6-S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia_Late_Antiquity:R120:Antonio_2019
9.27407677ETR013:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.28820758TAQ011:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.31211576Scythian:scy300:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
9.35244888Croatia_EMBA:I4331:Mathieson_2018
9.36452882VOL001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.44751819I5015:Olalde_2018
9.50057893CSN013:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
9.58759615C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1283:Antonio_2019
9.59114696Bulgaria_BA:I2520:Mathieson_2018
9.65696122Croatia_EMBA:I4332:Mathieson_2018
9.65707513Beaker_Central_Europe:I2364:Olalde_2018
9.77791900C7-Crypta_Balbi_Late_Antiquity:R110:Antonio_2019
9.87484177Protovillanovan_IA:R1:Antonio_2019
9.91709131ans007:Sánchez-Quinto_2019


Target: Angela
Distance: 0.5327% / 0.53268546 | ADC: 0.25x RC

23.7Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome
19.9TAQ006
15.8TAQ022
10.9MOK17A
10.4Baden_LCA
7.9I8475
6.5I3587
4.9Latini_IA



Target: Angela
Distance: 0.5327% / 0.53268546 | ADC: 0.25x RC

23.7Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome
19.9TAQ006
15.8TAQ022
10.9MOK17A
10.4Baden_LCA
7.9I8475
6.5I3587
4.9Latini_IA
Click to expand...

I am not sure if you understood what I said.

If you want to compare Albanians with Illyrians start with South Illyrian, or Illyrian Proper. Since no sample have come yet from Albania , you may use Log04 to give you a hint, since is closer that the samples from Dalmatia. Albanian take their name from Albanoi tribe so first you should start with them or samples in their proximity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoi

Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 17.23 - Log04_wgs_trim5bp
Top 90 % match vs all users


Closest Modern

1. Kosovar (10.17)
2. Romanian (10.39)
3. Bosnian (11.01)
4. Bulgarian (11.17)
5. Serbian (11.56)
6. North_Italian (12.04)
7. Albanian_Tosk (12.36)
8. Macedonian (13.03)



Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
torzio said:
Apollonia, was founded in 588 BC. Greek colonists from the city of Corinth and Corfu. It was originally known as Girakia in honor of the colonist leader Giraks. The name was later changed to honor the memory of the god Apollo. Apollonia lay on the territory of Tavlantia.

https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=107705
Click to expand...

So why you post studies for Caucasian Albania. You believe that is relevant for Apollonia.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
blevins13 said:
I am not sure if you understood what I said.

If you want to campare Albanians with Illyrians start with South Illyrian, or Illyrian Proper. Since no sample have come yet from Albania , you may use Log04 to give you a hint, since is closer that the samples from Dalmatia. Albanian take their name from Albanoi tribe so first you should start with them or samples in their proximity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoi

Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 17.23 - Log04_wgs_trim5bp
Top 90 % match vs all users


Closest Modern

1. Kosovar (10.17)
2. Romanian (10.39)
3. Bosnian (11.01)
4. Bulgarian (11.17)
5. Serbian (11.56)
6. North_Italian (12.04)
7. Albanian_Tosk (12.36)
8. Macedonian (13.03)



Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum
Click to expand...

Log02 should give you a better fit. Log02 is closer than Log04 from what I have seen.
 
Archetype0ne said:
Log02 should give you a better fit. Log02 is closer than Log04 from what I have seen.
Click to expand...

Yes but Albanians are not the top match.

Here is

Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 11.99 - Log02_wgs
Top 98 % match vs all users


Closest Modern

1. Tuscan (5.516)
2. North_Italian (6.652)
3. Albanian_Tosk (9.258)
4. Kosovar (11.80)
5. Greek_Thessaly (11.97)
6. Italian_Abruzzo (12.44)
7. West_Sicilian (12.77)
8. Greek (12.93)



Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
blevins13 said:
I am not sure if you understood what I said.

If you want to compare Albanians with Illyrians start with South Illyrian, or Illyrian Proper. Since no sample have come yet from Albania , you may use Log04 to give you a hint, since is closer that the samples from Dalmatia. Albanian take their name from Albanoi tribe so first you should start with them or samples in their proximity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoi

Ancient Middle Helladic Elati-Logkas Greece
1861 BC - Genetic Distance: 17.23 - Log04_wgs_trim5bp
Top 90 % match vs all users


Closest Modern

1. Kosovar (10.17)
2. Romanian (10.39)
3. Bosnian (11.01)
4. Bulgarian (11.17)
5. Serbian (11.56)
6. North_Italian (12.04)
7. Albanian_Tosk (12.36)
8. Macedonian (13.03)



Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum
Click to expand...

No one has any idea which of those two samples is closest to the "Illyrians"; maybe neither of them is...

You realize that, right????

Get back to me when you have a sample from the right period, with the right burial context. Then we'll see who is closest to them. Not, by the way, who is descended from people like him, but who has similar proportions of ancient populations.
 
Angela said:
No one has any idea which of those two samples is closest to the "Illyrians"; maybe neither of them is...

You realize that, right????

Get back to me when you have a sample from the right period, with the right burial context. Then we'll see who is closest to them. Not, by the way, who is descended from people like him, but who has similar proportions of ancient populations.
Click to expand...

A valid point which should apply to the all other samples as well, including Myceneans.
 
Angela said:
No one has any idea which of those two samples is closest to the "Illyrians"; maybe neither of them is...

You realize that, right????

Get back to me when you have a sample from the right period, with the right burial context. Then we'll see who is closest to them. Not, by the way, who is descended from people like him, but who has similar proportions of ancient populations.
Click to expand...

You realizing that the samples that you are using to validate your point are geographically closer to Italy than Albania. I will get back to you when samples will came from Albania, but meanwhile stop drawing conclusions that Italian are closer to Illyrians that Albanians. They are closer to the Illyrian Dalmatian Tribe but not to all Illyrians, especially the South Illyrians, namely Albanoi.



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