Genetic study Ancient DNA of Roman Danubian Frontier and Slavic Migrations (Olalde 2021)

[Dushman]

Great, it seems everyone finally understood blevins point that Albanians need only to be autosmally close to preferably the Roman Imperial period Southern (or Central) Illyrians or Dardanians, with the second preferred option being Late Iron Age Southern Illyrians.

Whereas a Bronze Age Indo-European found in Dalmatia is of not particular value besides his Y-DNA, considering that he predates the turbulent period after the 13th century BC, as well as probably lacked enough time to have merged fully/intermixed enough with the locals, be them Indo-European or not.

Once we see how much Steppe and East Med a Late Empire Illyro-Roman has (I say Late Empire to include the Goths who could?ve increased the Steppe as well), then we can do the math and deduct how much of that Steppe can be attributed to the Slavs as well as figure out if the East Med is from the Roman period, resettled Armenians during the Byzantine times, or Ottoman period admixture.

 

[Angela]

Exactly, i don’t know, and I am glad you realized that you don’t know either.

First you claimed that NE Italians are closer to Illyrians than Albanians, but we don’t know that yet. Given the extensive geographical area covered by Illyrian, their genetic admixture might have been different from north to south.

I am glad we finally agree even though it took more posts that I initially thought.


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You didn't say no one could know which of those two Log samples were closest to the Illyrians, if either of them are... You picked a sample to be the Illyrians because they plot closest to modern Albanians.

You always start out trying to prove how close Albanians are to Illyrians no matter how you have to twist the actual data to show it, and anyone with half a brain knows the game you're always playing.

Not only is it not scientific or logical, it's dishonest.

You're as bad as Laberia, whom I'm sure is here under some false name, but he's learned not to start ranting b.s.

I suggest you follow suit.

 

[blevins13]

You didn't say no one could know which of those two Log samples were closest to the Illyrians, if either of them are... You picked a sample to be the Illyrians because they plot closest to modern Albanians.

I never said Log samples were Illyrians, you inferred that. I choose them because of their proximity to Albania, and because there is no other choice available and stated that in my posts.

You always start out trying to prove how close Albanians are to Illyrians no matter how you have to twist the actual data to show it, and anyone with half a brain knows the game you're always playing.

Give an example from my posts in the past including this one.

Not only is it not scientific or logical, it's dishonest.

You claimed that NE Italians are closer to Illyrians than Albanians. I never claimed that for Albanians.

You're as bad as Laberia, whom I'm sure is here under some false name, but he's learned not to start ranting b.s.

I have no comment for this one. This is personal insult. I leave this to the moderators for review.


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[Archetype0ne]

Is it still a question that Albanians have continuity from Illyrians?

Ima ignore all the other stuff in the discussion that I find inconsequential. But like, have we made no progress at all the last 10 years. Might want to review genetic, historic, archeological and linguistic evidence and conjectures if still in doubt.

In a week or two the final nail in the coffin for nagging haters is coming. tik tok... tik tok...

Also, since aparently I might have forgot CHG/Iran Neo... BGR IA and HRV MBA and Mokrin had high Steppe / Yamnaya components. Yamnaya is up to 50% CHG. I did not forget it, its implicit in my last post. Also Sardinian BA had 10% so its implicit there as well.

People need to be aware of their double standards here. Mods included. The sword cuts both ways, yet some are using their arguments to only target theories they don't like ignoring the implications.

example

X pop not necesarily continuous from Y pop, despite calculator results, just coincidence they have similar compositions confusing calculator.

Z pop is continuous with Y pop, despite above statement applying just the same.

X pop is closest to Q ancient sample, hence closer to Q samples culture then Z pop.

Z pop not necesarily descendant from Q ancient culture, despite having close autosomal and same Y...

This whole arguments are clownish af.

 

[torzio]

Is it still a question that Albanians have continuity from Illyrians?

If you want to claim the Dardanians are from illyrian stock ............which seems 100% wrong for myself .

The only common association of the ancient Dardanians with other tribes is with the Paeonians ,.....their direct southern neighbour

but as usual....albanians hate being known as Dardanians as it makes them an inland tribe and not near the sea ................oh yea, albanian have no Sea/coastal words , but are all borrowed

 

[blevins13]

If you want to claim the Dardanians are from illyrian stock ............which seems 100% wrong for myself .

The only common association of the ancient Dardanians with other tribes is with the Paeonians ,.....their direct southern neighbour

but as usual....albanians hate being known as Dardanians as it makes them an inland tribe and not near the sea ................oh yea, albanian have no Sea/coastal words , but are all borrowed

You know it all it seems.


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[Excine]

Is it expected that the autosomal files will be published within this month?

 

[Excine]

The absence of navigational and fishing terminology may not be enough of an evidence to disprove the Illyrian origin of the Albanian language.

 

[Angela]

Please re-read my post on CHG/Iran Neo carefully.

I am emphatically NOT talking about the CHG in steppe people. How could I be for God's sake? Was Oetzi steppe admixed???

I am talking about ADDITIONAL CHG/Iran Neo coming into Europe from Anatolia in the late Copper/Early Bronze Age. You know, the stuff that went into Crete and the Mycenaeans????

Has anybody posting currently paid any attention to the papers?

I don't know how much "Illyrian" ancestry is in Albanian, nor do I care, as I've said before. Why would I?

The point is that conclusions have been repeatedly drawn for years and are drawn over and over again in this and other current threads without a scintilla of actual evidence, and anyone who dares to point that out gets branded an Albanian hater.

Do you know how many threads on this site you've ruined? Don't you notice how after a while no one else wants to respond?

Well, I'm not easily intimidated.

CUT IT OUT.

You want to post on this thread, then discuss the DATA. No more wild speculation.

Any more of it and I'm just going to go back an erase whole swathes of posts. Have I made myself clear?

 

[Dushman]

Post deleted by moderator.

 

[Jovialis]

If anyone wants to see what the ancient balkans looked like genetically, they should go to modern Italy.

 

[Dushman]

If anyone wants to see what the ancient balkans looked like genetically, they should go to modern Italy.

This is a map of Bulgaria IA. Only Tuscans appear closer it compared to Albanians. Is the map plotting wrong?

Below are some Albanian members.


Again here, Albanians appear much closer than both Republic and Imperial Romans.

 

[Jovialis]

No in the real pca from the study balkans IA from Bulgaria is west of Sicily. Eurogenes is crap.

 

[Jovialis]

No in the real pca from the study balkans IA from Bulgaria is west of Sicily. Eurogenes is crap.

For the new Balkan IA samples from this study one end clusters over south Italy/Sicily and a bit west, going as far north as Tuscany. Ergo, they resemble Tuscany to South Italy.

 

[Dushman]

For the new Balkan IA samples from this study one end clusters over south Italy/Sicily and a bit west, going as far north as Tuscany. Ergo, they resemble Tuscany to South Italy.

Can you post some pictures please? I?m curious to see the differences and to filter out the unreliable calculators as well as charts.

So far from the chart it seems that the locals of Viminacium (probably a Thraco-Illyrian mix) are in between Croatia BA and Bulgaria BA, but slightly shifted North, whereas Albanians are slightly more North, with the Northernmost IA locals almost overlapping with the Southernmost Albanian samples used here.

By the way, what does the Slovenian IA represent? It seems to plot very near modern Serbs. Was it some Illyro-Celt sample?

 

[torzio]

For the new Balkan IA samples from this study one end clusters over south Italy/Sicily and a bit west, going as far north as Tuscany. Ergo, they resemble Tuscany to South Italy.

do you have any ancient bosnian samples in your new balkan IA samples ?

 

[Fustan]

What is the justification of this papers claims that Albanians are 25% Slavic? This obviously does not reflect any sort of ydna studies or statistics (such as gjenetika), so I'm wondering if it's maternal?

 

[Dushman]

do you have any ancient bosnian samples in your new balkan IA samples ?

It?s page 18 of this topic, didn?t you know the samples are collected from settlements located in modern Serbia?

No wonder you keep asking about Bosnia and Montenegro, as well as mentioning Slovenian vessels.

 

[Dushman]

What is the justification of this papers claims that Albanians are 25% Slavic? This obviously does not reflect any sort of ydna studies or statistics (such as gjenetika), so I'm wondering if it's maternal?

25? This paper is claiming more like 40%. According to them Albanians are as Slavic as the 10th century Kuline samples. But at the same time they post charts where Albanians plot very near the local Balkans samples, unlike the Kuline samples which are rather shifted to the left towards Germanics.

 

[ihype02]

For the new Balkan IA samples from this study one end clusters over south Italy/Sicily and a bit west, going as far north as Tuscany. Ergo, they resemble Tuscany to South Italy.

Lazio Italians are the closests to the Balkan_IA sample.