Genetic study Ancient DNA of Roman Danubian Frontier and Slavic Migrations (Olalde 2021)
- Thread starter Maciamo
- Start date
And who tied the Slavs to a certain territory and what would not allow them to roam freely throughout Europe and beyond, as all other nations, as evidenced by DNA so far. The spread of IE language/PIE which is only one has influenced many non-IE in nature languages along the way, is one of the many proofs that your claim is baseless. How would people stuck in a place affect someone culturally? This requires real contact. How many people speak Slavic today? Something doesn’t fit your theory.
Language is neither bound to territory nor to a fictional hypothetical period when it originated. It can be bound only to people.
Everything you wrote is only an assumption and theories, unlike my statement, which lies on real parameters, those of the most important and stable part of a language - its grammar. Bulgarian is the most archaic version of Slavic and there are no assumptions, and this is a fact stated in the scientific literature by specialists.
You are just guessing who the Slavs are or you have preferences and you neglect the historical reality and science as the fact which is the first Slavic state and that we have older Bulgaria in Crimea and later conquest of the Volga with the same name. We are talking about a nation with a developed sense of state, not an ordinary tribe. Or, as Sergey Paramonov writes, "the Bulgarian state existed under the same name for several centuries before, and not in the form of a chaotic wandering horde, but a state to which Byzantium turned for help, with which Byzantium fought, concluded military alliances, peace treaties, and so on. . e. "
I don't understand are you suggesting the Finns were the first Slavs and why they didn't leave behind a cultural imprint at least on toponymy? Anthropologically, they don't seem to fit either. I am simply amazed by the jumps to Finland just to continue with the misconceptions of who is who in Europe. The Slavic gods are the Thracian one de facto and their names clearly prove this: Svitulen, Din, Deos, Zemla, Bagayos, Perkon, Sabazii ...
For example, Deos comes from the Bulgarian DIV, DIVEN, check if these other Slavs have a parallel with the word at all. The influence of the Bulgarians linguistically on the neighboring languages is huge and consists not only in borrowing words but also grammatical changes. Here, too, one cannot be deceived, as I have pointed out. Thus, the oldest Slavic book in Poland is recognized as Bulgarian because of the specific grammar. In linguistics, you can't hide anything like awkward samples not participating in genetic reports or to use single contaminated sample over which grandiose theories are built without any linguistic data.
Most DNA papers lack the combinatorial approach that is needed to prove statement or to called it a scientific work at all.
This logic who is real and not is pretty nationalistic at best.It is same as saying north Italians are the real Italians and south are not,or only Mycenaean were real Greeks present day are not,south Swedes are real Germanics and Austrians not and such dubious comparison can go on and on.Please leave this ethno-linguistic and ethno national comparison alone.And I see this particular comparison directed toward South Slavs and Balkans in general.What is your point,what you're trying to proof that we were Italics or Italian like or Romans prior Slavs came and admixed with us.And please remember that no historian or linguist ever linked the gulf of Finland with origin of Slavs.Everybody can believe in whatever they like you can agree or disagree.Didn't want to comment but this becomes really annoying.I do not care if I will be banned or not.
Last edited:
Angela
Elite member
- Messages
- 21,823
- Reaction score
- 12,328
- Points
- 113
- Ethnic group
- Italian
If you can't or won't believe the evidence provided by the bones dug up in the Balkans, nothing I say will convince you. You're free to believe whatever you like. Who is forcing you to do otherwise?
I don't see why, however, in that case, you frequent a site dedicated, among other things, to the study of population genetics, i.e. scientific, "genetic" studies of ancient dna. Nor do I see why you're blaming me for what the population geneticists are asserting. If you have problems with the results, the ultimate authority to whom you should plead your case is the collection of scientists who tested and analyzed the bones.
Btw, none of this is to say that I believe the Danubian Limes paper is flawless, because I don't, and I indicated that in my posts on this thread. The authors lacked a proximate source in space for the migrations which fit mathematically (i.e. early Czech Slav samples didn't fit), so they chose a source as unadmixed as possible. That's not to say that all the migrations which reached the Balkans started in that particular place. If you can't understand the distinction, I can't help you.
Also, to dispel the misunderstanding held by a number of posters, the samples chosen to represent the Slavs, were SLAVS, not Finns or Ugrics.
Now all we need is the Serbian who spams Razib Khan's site to make our day complete.
Last edited:
The Cyrillic alphabet is much older than it is officially stated and this is evident if we compare it with the Coptic alphabet, for example. The Glagolitic alphabet has parallels with the linear scripts A and B and with the old Balkan script.There are old inscriptions in Cyrillic letters from before Christ.
Neither I am Serbian nor I know or care who Razib Khan is much less to spam him.And by the same token you are not real Italian,but a mix of Etruscan who are not IE,Lombard Germanic and much more.How that feel? And what is even real or not is not on me to judge especially not certain people feelings.Thank you and better even not to talk with you.If you can't or won't believe the evidence provided by the bones dug up in the Balkans, nothing I say will convince you.
I don't see why, however, in that case, you frequent a site dedicated, among other things, to the study of population genetics, i.e. "genetic" studies of ancient dna.
This doesn't mean that I believe the Danubian Limes paper is flawless, because it isn't, and I indicated that in my posts on the thread discussing that paper. The authors lacked a proximate source in space for the migrations which fit mathematically (i.e. early Czech Slav samples didn't fit), so they chose a source as unadmixed as possible. That's not to say that all the migrations which reached the Balkans started in that particular place. If you can't understand the distinction, I can't help you.
I would remind everyone that this thread is dedicated to the discussion of the ancient Etruscans, and thus to Italian genetics. Anyone who wishes to discuss Balkan genetics is free to discuss the issue in the appropriate thread.
Now all we need is the Serbian who spams Razib Khan's site to make our day complete.
Angela
Elite member
- Messages
- 21,823
- Reaction score
- 12,328
- Points
- 113
- Ethnic group
- Italian
Good grief, I never said you were that Serbian. Calm down.
See, this is the problem when posters are not really comfortable with the English language.
As for your attempt to t-roll me, you obviously don't get it. Italians are the product of all those people: Italian Neolithic, Beaker like Bronze Age steppe admixed, Etruscans (who are indeed steppe admixed whatever the language they spoke, just like the Basques, if you've heard of them), Latins, who are almost indistinguishable genetically from them, Greeks, Aegean Iron Age, some Celtic, and maybe a bit of Germanic, but the latter is doubtful.
What, do you think Bulgarians have existed unchanged since the Ice Age or something? If you do you're sadly uninformed.
If you don't want to contribute, you know what they say: Don't let the door hit you in the you know what on your way out.
Your contribution so far is only with insults and bias toward certain people.That really show your own intellectual level not mine.This low answers doesn't seem to help,consult some specialist in the field.
Angela
Elite member
- Messages
- 21,823
- Reaction score
- 12,328
- Points
- 113
- Ethnic group
- Italian
Sorry for the delay; I didn't see your post.
Of course, there is WHG in EEF, more in some places than in others, so any "WHG" found would be additional WHG to that amount, or, in actuality, "excess" WHG.
As for Spain, if one looks at the MN figures it's clear that there was a "resurgence" of WHG since the early Neolithic. (Whether caused by WHG coming down from their places of refuge, or finally being accepted by the EEF groups I don't know.) That didn't happen in Italy to my knowledge, although no one, including me, has paid much attention to the Neolithic Italian samples, nor the Parma Beaker Bronze Age ones for that matter. I do know that one of the Parma Beaker samples had almost no steppe, one had a bit, and one had a significant amount.
Going by that G25 chart, post number 681, Northern Italians don't have much more WHG than the Tuscans, except for the Veneto, where it's still very low. One can forget the Trentino Alto Adige; half the people living there are ethnic Germans. Why we fought World War I to acquire it and places like Istria is beyond me.
I wonder why Aosta isn't included? It would be interesting to see what all those French descendants in the population do to the percentages compared to neighboring Piemonte.
I would also re-iterate for the umpteenth time that the modern Italian samples in G25 are highly suspect, as they are in Vahaduo. I don't know if the Tuscan samples are only the TSI or HGDP samples, or, like the other places in Italy they've been "supplemented" by non scientifically chosen samples by that Lombard Nordicist. So, there's that to consider as well. (Btw, even the TSI may be admixed a bit, as for some unknown reason the scientists only required 3 out of 4 grandparents to be born in the area. Go figure!)
I think the WHG was probably decreased in Italy by Greek like, Aegean IA like, Anatolian like or whatever it turns out to be, ancestry. Like everything else in Italy it's on a cline.
However, Iron Age first millennium BCE Etruscans didn't have much more WHG than modern Tuscans if you use the qpAdm generated stats found in the Supplement of the Posthe Etruscan paper, and I think that goes back to the fact that there weren't many WHG in Italy, and so no or less "resurgence" in Italy, although someone might want to check the Italian Neo samples for that; I just don't have the time anymore. It also might have something to do with the source of the steppe in the Balkanites, Greeks who may have mixed into the Italian gene pool.
I highly doubt, given the yDna, that "Germanics" moved them that much, nor do I think it likely that whole masses of Northern Italians moved south. There's certainly nowhere in the historical record.
Anyone look at how much WHG was in Balkans Iron Age cluster? I've always leaned toward the idea that the WHG present in the Balkans today may mostly have come with the Slavs.
I've been speculating for years that perhaps the "steppe" which went into the Balkans (prior to the arrival of the Slavs) was, rather than Corded Ware like, more Catacomb like, and so R1b, not R1a. I have no proof for that, of course. It's just speculation.
My other speculation was that, as an alternative, it might turn out that Corded Ware samples themselves would contain people who were WHG heavy, having picked up WHG from reservoirs in northeastern Europe, and who did not have the CHG/Iran Neo 40% proportions of the Yamnaya. That's why I never believed that people like Estonians, for example, or even Latvians, and certainly not the Finns, were the most "steppe" like people in Europe, if by steppe one meant Yamnaya Indo-European like. They are all far too WHG heavy and far too CHG light for that. An understanding of this is why, I think, the geneticists have moved away from talking about Yamnaya like or Indo-European like to "steppe like", for this admixture into more Central Europe. In actuality, most of the people, as I said, carried a lot of ancestry not even from the "steppe" steppe, as it were, but from the forest steppe, with big lashings of WHG added in certain cases.
From the leaks coming out, a paper on Corded Ware will show something very like that, perhaps validating my prediction.
One thing that I vaguely remember is a paper or an analysis looking into the varying proportions of WHG and EHG in Italy, and Toscana had more EHG than WHG. That would make sense if there was admixture from Iron Age like Aegean or western Anatolian like people whose "steppe" might have been more actual EHG like, and without all the additional WHG which was added in far northern Europe.
Imagine being "slav" in 2021
| Distance to: | BaiNed |
|---|---|
| 3.33522113 | Bulgaria_EBA:I2165:Mathieson_2018 |
| 6.55415898 | Nordic_Type-(ADH)_Female:STR310:Veeramah_2018 |
| 6.60945535 | C.Italy_Etruscan_MAS001:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_350-100BCE:MAS001 |
| 6.60945535 | MAS001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021 |
| 6.62440941 | Collegno49:Amorim_2018 |
| 6.90018840 | Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021 |
| 7.18298684 | Szolad27:Amorim_2018 |
| 7.32370808 | NE_Iberia_c6CE_PL:I12031:Olalde_2019 |
| 7.89380137 | Hungary_BA:I7043:Olalde_2018 |
| 8.33390065 | Altenerding-Klettham_480-519AD_Female:AED513:Veeramah_2018 |
| 8.54053862 | Collegno57:Amorim_2018 |
| 8.66107384 | C7-Villa_Magna_MA:R61:Antonio_2019 |
| 8.69564834 | Protovillanovan_IA:R1:Antonio_2019 |
| 8.72630506 | Szolad18:Amorim_2018 |
| 8.94171125 | La_Tène_B_IA:COL153A:Brunel_2020 |
| 8.98512103 | MOK32:Zegarac_2021 |
| 9.31171842 | C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)775-945CE:ETR007 |
| 9.31171842 | ETR007:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021 |
| 9.35599273 | I3596:Olalde_2018 |
| 9.36053951 | Szolad1:Amorim_2018 |
| 9.39785082 | NE_Iberia_c6-8CE_ES:I3866:Olalde_2019 |
| 9.42550794 | I5017:Olalde_2018 |
| 9.50142095 | C7-Villa_Magna_MA:R55:Antonio_2019 |
| 9.58532211 | Collegno47:Amorim_2018 |
| 9.69126927 | Beaker_Central_Europe:I4885:Olalde_2018 |
Archetype0ne
Regular Member
- Messages
- 1,715
- Reaction score
- 595
- Points
- 113
- Ethnic group
- Albanian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- L283>Y21878>Y197198
Your response had me rolling
On a serious note your distance to that EBA Bulgaria sample is insane! Can you please do the AC-BC calculation on Vahaduo, yours vs the Bulgarian sample, to see what sort of shift you have. That would be really interesting.
Your response had me rolling
On a serious note your distance to that EBA Bulgaria sample is insane! Can you please do the AC-BC calculation on Vahaduo, yours vs the Bulgarian sample, to see what sort of shift you have. That would be really interesting.
I'm not sure how to do it. Can you explain please, kinda new to the vahaduo.
Archetype0ne
Regular Member
- Messages
- 1,715
- Reaction score
- 595
- Points
- 113
- Ethnic group
- Albanian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- L283>Y21878>Y197198
Sure.
Sorry for the late reply.
First you need this: https://dnagenics.com/admixture-studio/ Free version is good enough.
Afterwards you go here: https://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/Eurogenes_k13_ancient-vahaduo.htm
On target paste the coordinates you just copied plus these ones
I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30.00,9.21,28.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00
Format your coordinates as such:
Then go to Distance Tab. Click on the Distance option once. You will see AC-BC take its place. Then you click on Baine first then the name of the ancient sample second.
And that's it
Alright,on k12b with the EBA sample:
| Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↑ A: BaiNed B: Bulgaria_EBA:I2165:Mathieson_2018 C: ↴ | |
|---|---|
| -2.93778136 | Alalakh_MLBA:ALA084:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.88166372 | Ashkelon_LBA:ASH033:Feldman_2019_(Jul.) |
| -2.87925232 | Ebla_EMBA:ETM018:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.86188878 | Alalakh_MLBA:ALA015:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.84572093 | Ashkelon_LBA:ASH029:Feldman_2019_(Jul.) |
| -2.83740714 | Arslantepe_LC:ART004:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.83091083 | Caucasus_lowlands_LC:ALX002_SR:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.82756998 | Alalakh_MLBA:ALA039:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.82695870 | Ashkelon_IA2:ASH008:Feldman_2019_(Jul.) |
| -2.82385706 | Alalakh_MLBA:ALA035:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.81622521 | Ebla_EMBA:ETM004:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.81487368 | Alalakh_MLBA:ALA020:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.79630654 | Alalakh_MLBA:ALA037:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.79572304 | Alalakh_MLBA:ALA025:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.79393379 | Alalakh_MLBA:ALA001:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.79119607 | Arslantepe_LC:ART019_PE:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.79025404 | Ebla_EMBA:ETM001:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.78764203 | Ebla_EMBA:ETM023:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.78706798 | Alalakh_MLBA:ALA008:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.78664237 | Arslantepe_EBA:ART001_PE:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.78183972 | Alalakh_MLBA:ALA004:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.78021246 | C4-ANAS_Imperial_Rome:R67:Antonio_2019 |
| -2.77904645 | Alalakh_MLBA:ALA024:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -2.77843190 | Armenia_MLChL:I1631:Lazaridis_2016 |
| -2.77227571 | Ebla_EMBA:ETM026:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↓ A: BaiNed B: Bulgaria_EBA:I2165:Mathieson_2018 C: ↴ | |
|---|---|
| 2.99644451 | Bell_Beaker_Osterhofen-Altenmarkt:RISE564:Allentoft_2015 |
| 2.92690775 | NE_Iberia_c6-8CE_ES:I7672:Olalde_2019 |
| 2.91504747 | Scotland_CA_EBA:I5470:Olalde_2018 |
| 2.86068189 | NW_Iberia_CA_Stp:I3238:Olalde_2019 |
| 2.85017699 | Blatterhohle_MN:I1594:Lipson_2017 |
| 2.83427747 | MOK16A:Zegarac_2021 |
| 2.82694684 | Maros:RISE374:Allentoft_2015 |
| 2.81759097 | SE_Iberia_CA:I8157:Olalde_2019 |
| 2.81706365 | E_Iberia_IA:I12877:Olalde_2019 |
| 2.81208421 | Hungary_4420BC:NE7:Gamba_2014 |
| 2.80677151 | Vatya:RISE483:Allentoft_2015 |
| 2.80144259 | Maros:RISE373:Allentoft_2015 |
| 2.78837377 | France_EBAIR3116B:Brunel_2020 |
| 2.78547060 | Bell_Beaker_Augsburg:RISE559:Allentoft_2015 |
| 2.78176980 | MOK25A:Zegarac_2021 |
| 2.77915626 | I6468:Olalde_2018 |
| 2.77828867 | I6624:Olalde_2018 |
| 2.76984683 | Beaker_Central_Europe:I5660:Olalde_2018 |
| 2.76872357 | WHG-like_Brunn_am_Gebirge:I6913:Nikitin_2019 |
| 2.76613473 | Germany_MN:I1560_d:Lipson_2017 |
| 2.76333194 | France_EBA:RIX2:Brunel_2020 |
| 2.76240361 | Udosolovo_Ingria_Russia_IA:VIII12_1:Saag_2019 |
| 2.76047756 | France_EBA:RIX15:Brunel_2020 |
| 2.75984020 | Hungary_MBA:RISE349:Allentoft_2015 |
| 2.75837841 | Vatya:RISE484:Allentoft_2015 |
And this is on K13 as you requested with the Iron Age sample:
| Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↑ A: BaiNed B: I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp C: ↴ | |
|---|---|
| -21.85324160 | MJ14_West_Scythian_R1a_Z645_ |
| -21.68373331 | I5885_Ukraine_Mesolithic_8110_ybp |
| -21.66351593 | North_Norwegian_HG_Steigen |
| -21.65190093 | I3715_Ukraine_N_7529_ybp |
| -21.64609739 | ZVEJ31_Latvia_MN2_6179_5750_BC4229_3800_cal_BC_ |
| -21.64604322 | I1819_Mesolithic_Ukraine_1st_oldest_R1a_9000_7000_BCE_M_r1a_U5b2_ |
| -21.63787452 | I1378_Mesolithic_Ukraine_6kya_ |
| -21.63194223 | I0011_Sweden_Motala_HG_7569_ybp |
| -21.61340277 | Hum1_Norway_Mesolithic.SG_9364_ybp |
| -21.60961102 | I5883_Ukraine_N_7056_ybp |
| -21.60915820 | I1733_Ukraine_Mesolithic_10200_ybp |
| -21.60244423 | I5879_Ukraine_N_brother.I8590_father.or.son.I3718_7200_ybp |
| -21.60092125 | I1732_Ukraine_N_7239_ybp |
| -21.59581482 | I4628_Latvia_HG_7027_ybp |
| -21.59276664 | I4630_Latvia_HG_9222_ybp |
| -21.58371321 | MJ13_West_Scythian_580_BC_ |
| -21.57898492 | I4436_Latvia_MN_6105_ybp |
| -21.57293291 | Kivutkalns222_Latvia_BA_660_ybp |
| -21.56892050 | Turlojiske3_Lithuania_BA_905_ybp |
| -21.56604672 | I5875_Ukraine_N_7126_ybp |
| -21.56048497 | Kivutkalns153_Latvia_BA_673_ybp |
| -21.56015257 | I1738_Ukraine_N_7350_ybp |
| -21.55863202 | ZVEJ25_latvia_HG2_narva_7791_7586_BC5841_5636_calBC_ |
| -21.55707425 | I5876_Mesolithic_Ukraine_2nd_oldest_R1a_ |
| -21.55655492 | I0015_Sweden_Motala_HG_7747_ybp |
| Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↓ A: BaiNed B: I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp C: ↴ | |
|---|---|
| 19.28890957 | I9041_Greece_Mycenaean_3250_ybp |
| 18.79037352 | I2430_Bulgaria_Late_C_6448_ybp |
| 18.51887889 | I2743_Hungary_ALPc_Szakalhat_MN_7050_ybp |
| 18.43338369 | Boncuklu002 |
| 18.38884468 | I1895_Hungary_Vinca_MN_7151_ybp |
| 18.36225039 | I1891_Hungary_Sopot_LN_6969_ybp |
| 18.32118637 | I2519_Bulgaria_C_6242_ybp |
| 18.28974297 | I2355_Hungary_ALBK_Szakalhat_MN_7050_ybp |
| 18.25766552 | I2029_Germany_LBK_EN_7126_ybp |
| 18.25384550 | I1506_NE1_HungaryEN_ |
| 18.22908434 | I0056_Germany_LBK_EN_7061_ybp |
| 18.19479624 | I4918_Serbia_Starcevo_EN_7600_ybp |
| 18.18218520 | I8215_3iberia_ |
| 18.17814491 | N25_Poland_BKG.SG_6250_ybp |
| 18.16240952 | I1899_Hungary_Lengyel_LN_6380_ybp |
| 18.14318394 | I3537_Hungary_ALPc_Szatmar_MN_7371_ybp |
| 18.13144993 | I2380_Hungary_ALPc_Szatmar_MN_7350_ybp |
| 18.12845337 | R17_Marche_Neolithic_Farmer_Italy |
| 18.10711391 | I2509_Bulgaria_C_6353_ybp |
| 18.09151219 | I8215_iberia_ |
| 18.07632688 | I2425_Bulgaria_Late_C_6515_ybp |
| 18.07341017 | I1903_Hungary_Lengyel_LN_son.I10619.son.I10624.halfbro.I10620.halfbro.I10621_6600_ybp |
| 18.05126054 | I2510_Bulgaria_EBA_4758_ybp |
| 18.03288356 | SZ19_Hungary_Langobard_1463_ybp |
| 18.02620961 | Bar31_Anatolia_Early_Neolithic_ |
Archetype0ne
Regular Member
- Messages
- 1,715
- Reaction score
- 595
- Points
- 113
- Ethnic group
- Albanian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- L283>Y21878>Y197198
Interesting. Thanks. I can also model myself using 2-3 Ashkelon samples. I can share a calculator if you want.
Here is the same comparison you did above for my coordinates.
K12b
K13
Here is the same comparison you did above for my coordinates.
K12b
| Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↑ A: A0 B: Bulgaria_EBA:I2165:Mathieson_2018 C: ↴ | |
|---|---|
| -9.34066494 | Arslantepe_LC:ART038:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.33784815 | Arslantepe_LC_rel_of_ART014:ART024_SR:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.31376834 | TellKurdu_MC:KRD002:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.31126928 | Arslantepe_LC_rel_of_ART014:ART024_PE:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.30125424 | Arslantepe_LC:ART014_PE:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.29363272 | ÇamlıbelTarlası_LC:CBT010:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.27386556 | ÇamlıbelTarlası_LC:CBT004:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.26610397 | İkiztepe_LC:IKI024:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.26245312 | ÇamlıbelTarlası_LC:CBT001:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.25816014 | İkiztepe_LC:IKI009:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.25339683 | Arslantepe_LC:ART014_SR:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.23756731 | C5-Viale_Rossini_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome:R78:Antonio_2019 |
| -9.22692814 | MA2205amgaard_2018 |
| -9.22429862 | Büyükkaya_EC:CBT018:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.22111634 | C5-ANAS_Imperial_Rome:R71:Antonio_2019 |
| -9.22106015 | Arslantepe_LC:ART012_PE:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.21552432 | MA2200amgaard_2018 |
| -9.20966179 | MA2206amgaard_2018 |
| -9.20600960 | TitrişHöyük_EBA:TIT021:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.19907355 | ÇamlıbelTarlası_LC:CBT013:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.19728643 | İkiztepe_LC:IKI019:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.17603697 | ÇamlıbelTarlası_LC:CBT016:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.17235349 | ÇamlıbelTarlası_LC:CBT014:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.16682609 | Arslantepe_LC:ART012_SR:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| -9.15633531 | Arslantepe_LC:ART022_SR:Skourtanioti_2020 |
| Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↓ A: A0 B: Bulgaria_EBA:I2165:Mathieson_2018 C: ↴ | |
|---|---|
| 9.50729750 | Nordic_MN_B:RISE61:Allentoft_2015 |
| 9.50180849 | C7-Cancelleria_MA:R1219:Antonio_2019 |
| 9.49260205 | 3DT16:Martiniano_2016 |
| 9.49211725 | Unetice:RISE577:Allentoft_2015 |
| 9.49020990 | Bell_Beaker_LN:I0805:Mathieson_2015 |
| 9.48534520 | oll009:Malmström_2019 |
| 9.48012935 | Straubing_Bajuwarenstraße-(Inter-ADH)_Male:STR491:Veeramah_2018 |
| 9.47293967 | England_CA_EBA:I2464:Olalde_2018 |
| 9.46646936 | NE_Iberia_Greek_(Empúries1):I8212:Olalde_2019 |
| 9.46645683 | NO3423:Martiniano_2016 |
| 9.46503341 | Szolad12:Amorim_2018 |
| 9.45580438 | Beaker_Central_Europe:I7286:Olalde_2018 |
| 9.45160989 | Crusader_Pit:SI39:Haber_2019 |
| 9.44864889 | Szolad8:Amorim_2018 |
| 9.43948429 | C7-Mausole_di_Augusto_Late_Antiquity:R31:Antonio_2019 |
| 9.42938250 | Nordic_BA:RISE47:Allentoft_2015 |
| 9.42936899 | Scythian:scy303:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct) |
| 9.42660787 | Unetice_EBA:I0804_EUL57:Haak_2015 |
| 9.42354513 | Nordic_LN:RISE179:Allentoft_2015 |
| 9.42272721 | Collegno146:Amorim_2018 |
| 9.42028926 | Altheim_485-535AD_Female:Alh10:Veeramah_2018 |
| 9.41756864 | Altenerding-Klettham_460-510AD_Male:AED249:Veeramah_2018 |
| 9.41682202 | Szolad11:Amorim_2018 |
| 9.41671830 | Szolad9:Amorim_2018 |
| 9.41395992 | Bell_Beaker_Knezeves:RISE566:Allentoft_2015 |
K13
| Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↑ A: A0 B: I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp C: ↴ | |
|---|---|
| -17.65020890 | I0211_Russia_Karelia_HG_8280_ybp |
| -17.30973717 | Kivutkalns209_Latvia_BA_318_ybp |
| -17.30074268 | AfontovaGora3_AfontovaGora2_merge_ |
| -17.27614311 | I0433_Russia_Khvalynsk_EN_6550_ybp |
| -17.24581939 | I4554_Latvia_MN_5949_ybp |
| -17.24390591 | vik_kal009_Sweden_Viking.SG_900_ybp |
| -17.06221982 | MJ14_West_Scythian_R1a_Z645_ |
| -17.05638777 | UzOO77_new_Russia_EHG_5250_ybp |
| -17.04155939 | Kivutkalns153_Latvia_BA_673_ybp |
| -17.02395616 | Kivutkalns222_Latvia_BA_660_ybp |
| -17.01537172 | I0124_Russia_Samara_EHG_7549_ybp |
| -17.00906605 | Latvia_MN2_Latvia_MN_Comb_Ware.SG_5965_ybp |
| -17.00648656 | Kivutkalns19_Latvia_BA_565_ybp |
| -17.00116539 | I4435_Latvia_MN_6003_ybp |
| -16.98640372 | I0061_OleniyOstrov_ |
| -16.98334735 | Kivutkalns207_Latvia_BA_560_ybp |
| -16.97553533 | Kivutkalns25_Latvia_BA_673_ybp |
| -16.97405940 | Kivutkalns42_Latvia_BA_685_ybp |
| -16.93412456 | I1733_Ukraine_Mesolithic_10200_ybp |
| -16.92644158 | I4436_Latvia_MN_6105_ybp |
| -16.84366070 | ZVEJ31_Latvia_MN2_6179_5750_BC4229_3800_cal_BC_ |
| -16.84142158 | Sidelkino_Russia_Sidelkino_HG.SG_11259_ybp |
| -16.84007444 | DA29_European_in_Kazakhstan_1300_AD_700_ |
| -16.76362993 | I5885_Ukraine_Mesolithic_8110_ybp |
| -16.74907792 | I0122_Russia_Khvalynsk_EN_6800_ybp |
| Distance difference: ( AC - BC ) ↓ A: A0 B: I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp C: ↴ | |
|---|---|
| 14.61547745 | SZ19_Hungary_Langobard_1463_ybp |
| 14.43301414 | I2430_Bulgaria_Late_C_6448_ybp |
| 14.18086202 | I9041_Greece_Mycenaean_3250_ybp |
| 14.15270043 | I2425_Bulgaria_Late_C_6515_ybp |
| 13.54709533 | I4189_Hungary_Balaton_Lasinja_CA_6050_ybp |
| 13.41787012 | I5117_Hungary_LCA_4550_ybp |
| 13.39285577 | N27_Poland_BKG.SG_6250_ybp |
| 13.37171978 | N25_Poland_BKG.SG_6250_ybp |
| 13.34974449 | I2743_Hungary_ALPc_Szakalhat_MN_7050_ybp |
| 13.31691531 | I2791_Hungary_Protoboleraz_LCA_5471_ybp |
| 13.27510512 | I2358_Hungary_Tisza_LN_6700_ybp |
| 13.26846454 | I2355_Hungary_ALBK_Szakalhat_MN_7050_ybp |
| 13.23442637 | I4088_Romania_C_6154_ybp |
| 13.23372499 | Boncuklu002 |
| 13.16070897 | I1895_Hungary_Vinca_MN_7151_ybp |
| 13.14008133 | I5118_Hungary_LCA_4550_ybp |
| 13.13293238 | I1891_Hungary_Sopot_LN_6969_ybp |
| 13.11601508 | I1905_Hungary_Lengyel_LN_6664_ybp |
| 13.03625363 | I4199_Hungary_ALPc_Tiszadob_MN_7050_ybp |
| 12.99866879 | I2380_Hungary_ALPc_Szatmar_MN_7350_ybp |
| 12.97923892 | I1908_Hungary_Balaton_Lasinja_CA_6050_ybp |
| 12.89706412 | I2745_Hungary_ALPc_Szakalhat_MN_7050_ybp |
| 12.87678880 | I0056_Germany_LBK_EN_7061_ybp |
| 12.85071324 | R19_Marche_Neolithic_Farmer_Italy |
| 12.84455007 | I4918_Serbia_Starcevo_EN_7600_ybp |
Archetype0ne
Regular Member
- Messages
- 1,715
- Reaction score
- 595
- Points
- 113
- Ethnic group
- Albanian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- L283>Y21878>Y197198
It seems compared to the BA samples, both of us are shifted towards Eastern Sources, Levant and Anatolia respectively. Compared to IA we are shifted towards the Steppe.
If I am not mistaken, if this trend hold population wise, after the BA, if there is continuity, an eastern population was needed to shift us to where we are. While after the IA a steppe population. Sounds counterintuitive to some degree, given what we know about EF and IE peoples. But all the Balkan peoples I have gotten to see this analysis from, have similar results.
Somehow personally never thought to do AC-BC with K13. But interestingly, it is giving me a positive hit for a suspicion I have had for a while. That my 1-2% East Asian is old Siberian HG related (I was suspicious due to it being broken down into Yellow River Neolithic, Amerindian and Papuan, leaving the only common denominator some ancestral Siberian HG). I had some luck modeling myself with a tiny bit of Motala, but I guess this would probably work even better.
If I am not mistaken, if this trend hold population wise, after the BA, if there is continuity, an eastern population was needed to shift us to where we are. While after the IA a steppe population. Sounds counterintuitive to some degree, given what we know about EF and IE peoples. But all the Balkan peoples I have gotten to see this analysis from, have similar results.
Somehow personally never thought to do AC-BC with K13. But interestingly, it is giving me a positive hit for a suspicion I have had for a while. That my 1-2% East Asian is old Siberian HG related (I was suspicious due to it being broken down into Yellow River Neolithic, Amerindian and Papuan, leaving the only common denominator some ancestral Siberian HG). I had some luck modeling myself with a tiny bit of Motala, but I guess this would probably work even better.
| 17.65020890 | I0211_Russia_Karelia_HG_8280_ybp |
LOL you are gonna eat your words.
This thread has been viewed 184350 times.