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Thread: R1a Z93 in Greece

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    R1a Z93 in Greece

    Hello there, I am Greek with 100% European autosomal my ftdna test predicted me as R1a-Z93 (subclade R-Y934,I haven't test downstream yet) I was wondering how is this possible and if there are more greeks with the same y haplo with European backgrounds.

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    R1a Z93 in Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos Simos View Post
    Hello there, I am Greek with 100% European autosomal my ftdna test predicted me as R1a-Z93 (subclade R-Y934,I haven't test downstream yet) I was wondering how is this possible and if there are more greeks with the same y haplo with European backgrounds.
    Which part of Albania are you from since you have the Albanian flag?


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    wrong flag
    Last edited by Giorgos Simos; 12-09-21 at 03:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos Simos View Post
    Hello there, I am Greek with 100% European autosomal my ftdna test predicted me as R1a-Z93 (subclade R-Y934,I haven't test downstream yet) I was wondering how is this possible and if there are more greeks with the same y haplo with European backgrounds.

    Are you on FTDNA? How many matches do you have on level 12 and 25? Do you see other Greeks on the matches map? I think some Scytho-Sarmatians would have come for sure to Greece, but there is also the question whether some came with original Greeks, like Babino-KMK.

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    Yep. So far, afaik no z93 in Greece. But in the recent Croatian paper there was z93 from around 400 CE. Likely Sarmatian/Cimmerian/Scythian.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos Simos View Post
    Hello there, I am Greek with 100% European autosomal my ftdna test predicted me as R1a-Z93 (subclade R-Y934,I haven't test downstream yet) I was wondering how is this possible and if there are more greeks with the same y haplo with European backgrounds.
    The oldest R1a-Z93 ancient sample in the Balkans was found in Bulgaria and is dated around 1675 BC. Its ID is I2163 and you can read about it here. https://www.nature.com/articles/nature25778#Sec16 But it lef no descendants since it is Z93*. There also the SZ1 sample from Szolad which was first reported as dating from 1000 BC but is now presented by MTA as an Avar sample from 700 AD.

    To have an idea about how your line arrived in Greece, you would need to identify your specific subclade first as R-Y934 has several with different distributions and a TMRCA of 4100 ybp, which authorizes various theories.

    Regarding modern samples, all I could found is a R1a-Z93 member of the Greek DNA Project on FTDNA (it represents one on 24 other R1a lines). Since he is not specified further downstream, you can look and compare the STR values to see whether he is close to you or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illyri View Post
    The oldest R1a-Z93 ancient sample in the Balkans was found in Bulgaria and is dated around 1675 BC. It ID is I2163 and you can read about it here. https://www.nature.com/articles/nature25778#Sec16 But it lef no descendants since it is Z93*.
    There is also the SZ1 sample from Szolad which was first reported as dating from 1000 BC but is now presented by MTA as an Avar sample from 700 AD.

    To have an idea about how your line arrived in Greece, you would need to identify your specific subclade first. R-Y934 has several subclades with different distributions and a TMRCA of 4100 ybp, which authorizes various theories.

    Regarding modern samples, all I could found is a R1a-Z93 member of the Greek DNA Project on FTDNA (it represents one on 24 other R1a lines). Since he is not specified further downstream, you can look (it is public) and compare the STR values to see whether he is close to you or not.
    So the SZ1 sample is Avar 700 AD ot urnfielder 1000 BC?


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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    So the SZ1 sample is Avar 700 AD ot urnfielder 1000 BC?
    Personnally I think that it is from 1000 BC (based on the findings of the authors of the paper), but I am not an authority on the subject and I know that it is debated.

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    On level 12 there is a Bulgarian with big y
    1 Italian 1 German and one with unknown origin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos Simos View Post
    On level 12 there is a Bulgarian with big y
    1 Italian 1 German and one with unknown origin
    As such, matches at 12 STRs will not tell you much.
    At this level, you can exactly match someone with a MRCA who lived 4000/5000 ybp.
    What are your matches' terminal SNPs ? Do they also fall under your subclade ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos Simos View Post
    Hello there, I am Greek with 100% European autosomal my ftdna test predicted me as R1a-Z93 (subclade R-Y934,I haven't test downstream yet) I was wondering how is this possible and if there are more greeks with the same y haplo with European backgrounds.
    Where is your paternal ancestry from ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illyri View Post
    As such, matches at 12 STRs will not tell you much.
    At this level, you can exactly match someone with a MRCA who lived 4000/5000 ybp.
    What are your matches' terminal SNPs ? Do they also fall under your subclade ?
    Actually it depends. For some testers the 12 STR level means nothing, for others it means something. But that's in any case a small number of matches, if these are all. Sometimes the chosen STR are not the best for the haplogroup in question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos Simos View Post
    On level 12 there is a Bulgarian with big y
    1 Italian 1 German and one with unknown origin
    Nothing higher than that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Actually it depends. For some testers the 12 STR level means nothing, for others it means something. But that's in any case a small number of matches, if these are all. Sometimes the chosen STR are not the best for the haplogroup in question.



    Nothing higher than that?
    i just checked my matches again, sooo in 12 markers there are 2 germans(R-M198) 1 italian(R-M198) 1 bulgarian(R-YP1548) and 1 guy with unknown origin(R-M198) that he is also in my 25 markers,i had a contact with him, he have 100% european autosomal and he believes that his family is from greece(he lives in usa).

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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Where is your paternal ancestry from ?

    my paternal ancestry is from epirus region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos Simos View Post
    Hello there, I am Greek with 100% European autosomal my ftdna test predicted me as R1a-Z93 (subclade R-Y934,I haven't test downstream yet) I was wondering how is this possible and if there are more greeks with the same y haplo with European backgrounds.
    Hello, I am also a Greek with paternal haplogroup R-Z93! However I belong to a different subclade (R-YP4768). I have heard about few R-Z93 in Greece but I don't know details.

    In my case based on the distribution and TMRCA it is from Iranics, probably Scythians or Sarmatians/Alans. It could also be from other Eurasian peoples like Avars or Proto-Bulgars since Iranic peoples very possibly took part in their ethnogenesis.

    I would definitely suggest you a yDNA test. If you can't afford FTDNA you can buy SNPs from ySEQ since you know you know you are R-Y934.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xri34 View Post
    Hello, I am also a Greek with paternal haplogroup R-Z93! However I belong to a different subclade (R-YP4768). I have heard about few R-Z93 in Greece but I don't know details.

    In my case based on the distribution and TMRCA it is from Iranics, probably Scythians or Sarmatians/Alans. It could also be from other Eurasian peoples like Avars or Proto-Bulgars since Iranic peoples very possibly took part in their ethnogenesis.

    I would definitely suggest you a yDNA test. If you can't afford FTDNA you can buy SNPs from ySEQ since you know you know you are R-Y934.
    Better saving for a BigY or WGS, because the SNP packs can just confirm the more obvious, while leading up to a dead end for further research most of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos Simos View Post
    Hello there, I am Greek with 100% European autosomal my ftdna test predicted me as R1a-Z93 (subclade R-Y934,I haven't test downstream yet) I was wondering how is this possible and if there are more greeks with the same y haplo with European backgrounds.
    R-Y934 TMRCA=4100 , all your cousins on Yfull years https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y934/

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    I would strongly recommend taking the Big Y-700 test of you want to advance further down in the Y934 tree. We are quite a few Europeans now within Y934 branches. It would be really interesting to see where you really end up fitting. Cheers.

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