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Thread: The origin and legacy of the Etruscans through a 2000-year archeogenomic time transec

  1. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    mydnaportal.com allows you to upload raw data, and it gives you predictions based on SNPs. It works for aDNA, but you have to do it one at a time, and it is very time consuming; there's a lot of Etruscan samples. It is likely that some of them did indeed have blonde hair, or genes for blonde hair. They had steppe admixture in them after all.
    Thanks, I have downloaded the etruscan samples, however I found the raw data only includes Mdna. Could this website analysis the color of hair only by Mdna data?

  2. #577
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    Jovialis do you have Medival Tuscany K12b coordinates? I found Imperial and Republican ones in some of your posts but not the medieval. Not sure if I missed them.

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    5 members found this post helpful.
    Here you go:

    Code:
    C.Italy_Etruscan:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_780-540BCE:CAM001,1.38,0.19,1.2,0,47.62,24.58,0,0,6.88,0,17.87,0.27
    C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_770-520BCE:CAM002,4.72,0.03,0,1.59,40.47,34.19,0,0,4.64,0,13.94,0.44
    C.Italy_Etruscan:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_770-540BCE:CAM003,0.93,0.04,0.79,0,49.21,23.83,0,0,7,0.18,16.98,1.04
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN001,0.74,0,1.6,0.73,46.5,23.83,0,0,7.19,0,19.25,0.16
    C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu_related:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE:CSN002,0,0.36,0,0,41.12,32.35,0,0,0,0,26.17,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_380-204BCE:CSN003,0.97,0.01,2,0,49.14,21.97,1.05,0,7.95,0.53,15.93,0.45
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN004,1.49,0,2.17,0.71,51.75,19.41,0.13,0,5.2,0,18.21,0.93
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN005,1.48,0,4.65,0,39.23,28.19,0.65,0,6.11,0.54,19.16,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_533-392BCE:CSN006,3.62,0,0,1.53,45.77,24.02,0.29,0,4.9,0,19.6,0.27
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN007,0,0,0,0.5,50.29,20.45,0,0,10.86,0,17.91,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN008,4.93,0,0,0.4,43.71,27.95,0,0,4.16,0,18.84,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE:CSN009,2.52,0,2.03,0,39.86,27.95,0,0,2.52,0.43,23.93,0.75
    C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_380-204BCE:CSN010,4.43,0.27,3.49,0,40.36,31.59,0,0,5.33,1.81,11.48,1.25
    :Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN012,7.01,0,10.55,0,41.84,29.45,0,0,0,0,11.15,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN013,4.87,0,0.54,0,45.93,21.96,0.41,0,5.92,0.25,19.55,0.57
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_997-1149CE:ETR003,10.36,0,2.55,0,30.58,19.47,0,0,10.98,0,25.66,0.41
    :Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany):ETR004,17.44,0,0,0,19.59,19.63,0,0,11.7,0,31.64,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_805-774BCE:ETR005,2,0,0,1.54,45.54,20.52,0.17,0,9.35,1.02,18.73,1.13
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_772-888CE:ETR006,3.87,1.22,0,0,39.39,15.01,0,0,12.67,0,26.45,1.39
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)775-945CE:ETR007,5.51,0,2.37,1.28,30.11,25.01,0,0,8.81,0,26.92,0
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany):ETR010,4.58,0.05,1.08,0.22,37.3,17.15,0.08,0,9.4,0,29.53,0.6
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany):ETR012,17.52,1.96,0,0,41.58,12.98,3.45,0.35,5.74,0,16.42,0
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)C899-1016CE:ETR013,6.64,0.06,1.86,0,35.44,14.98,0,0,9.51,0,31.24,0.28
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval_ETR014:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_977-1022CE:ETR014,3.51,0,2.87,0,27.31,14.86,0.51,0,14.53,0,36.4,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:MaglianoinToscana(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:MAG001,0.84,0,0,0,47.05,24.88,0.37,0.08,3.46,0.47,22.84,0.02
    C.Italy_Etruscan_MAS001:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_350-100BCE:MAS001,7.2,0.84,4.18,0,26.73,30.23,1.6,0.6,6.25,1.12,21.08,0.18
    C.Italy_Imperial:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_240-380CE:MAS002,6.49,1.52,3.63,0,23.56,7.82,0,0.48,18.33,0.02,38.16,0
    C.Italy_Imperial:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_400-530CE:MAS003,2.81,0,8.6,1.47,34.71,11.66,0,1.28,11.86,0,26.84,0.76
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_804-557BCE:MAS004,1.12,0,0.85,0,44.63,29.23,0,0,1.36,1.35,21.46,0
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval:PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_772-960CE:POP001,4.72,0.15,0.86,0,35.02,19.76,0,0,8.74,1.36,28.84,0.55
    C.Italy_Etruscan:PoggioRenzo(Siena_Tuscany)_794-543BCE:PRZ001,1.55,0.11,0,0,48.41,23.78,0,0,6.08,0.13,19.22,0.71
    C.Italy_Etruscan:PoggioRenzo(Siena_Tuscany)_772-436BCE:PRZ002,0,0,2.6,0.54,47.1,27.43,0,0,4.06,1.06,17.2,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE:TAQ001,2.36,0,4.12,0.57,47.15,23.95,0,0,4.6,0,17.25,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_103BCE-54CE:TAQ002,0,0,1.15,0.26,46.51,23.88,0,0,5.81,0,21.27,1.12
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_729-942CE:TAQ003,5.6,0,2.14,1.3,29.31,17.09,0.1,0.93,11.36,0,31.59,0.58
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_:TAQ004,1.71,0.66,0.95,0.36,48.5,23.89,0,0,5.59,0,17.87,0.48
    C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE:TAQ005,1.39,0.44,5.14,0,46.29,17.75,0.22,0.33,8.86,0.41,18.68,0.49
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_:TAQ006,1.18,0,3.59,0,42.96,25.05,0.15,0,2.83,0,24.24,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_391-207BCE:TAQ007,3.25,0.65,8.19,0,33.36,6.55,0.82,0,13.72,0.07,31.87,1.52
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ008,4.27,1.3,0.28,0.84,49.67,21.5,0,0,3.99,0,17.53,0.63
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_899-1021CE:TAQ009,4.13,0.23,2.43,0.82,33.16,19.69,0.14,0,9.54,0,28.81,1.06
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ010,0,0,1.32,0.05,48.43,24.81,0.71,0,4.04,0,20.41,0.24
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_895-1016CE:TAQ011,6.51,0.15,1.38,0.03,33.17,19.02,0,1.09,10.21,0,27.5,0.96
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ012,3.32,0,1.79,0,51.8,17.96,0.72,0,7.3,0,16.79,0.33
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ013,2.83,1.64,1.78,0,46.46,21.33,0,0,6.68,0,19.04,0.23
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE:TAQ015,1.72,0,2.42,0,46.31,21.99,0,0,6.46,0.63,19.66,0.81
    C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ016,2.43,0,1.67,0,46.91,24.12,0.84,0,5.34,0,18.06,0.63
    C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE:TAQ017,4.08,0,1.96,0,48.92,20.11,0,0,5.6,0,19.12,0.21
    C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE:TAQ018,0,0,0.47,0,48.53,20.84,0.43,0,6.5,1.43,20.91,0.89
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_358-98BCE:TAQ019,0.49,0,2.18,0,47.66,24.5,0.17,0,5.48,0.04,19.27,0.21
    C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89-236CE:TAQ020,9.02,0.66,1.49,0.5,34.13,18.73,0.12,0,7.43,0,27.92,0
    C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_262-424CE:TAQ021,3.74,0,2.51,0,33.22,11.47,2.01,0,12.62,0,34.44,0
    C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_1018-1151CE:TAQ022,5.66,0,2.84,0,34.54,19.74,2.22,0,6.34,0,28.11,0.54
    C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_396-216BCE:TAQ023,0.11,0,9.86,0,38.6,11.68,0.88,1.34,10.18,0,26.04,1.31
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE:TAQ024,1.55,0.2,4.01,0.27,46.92,21.83,0,0.36,4.57,0,20.29,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan_UDC_P:Chiostraccio(Siena_Tuscany)_174-53BCE:UDC_P,0,0,4.31,0,52.14,29.39,0,0,0.89,0,13.22,0.04
    S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN001,5.14,0,3.87,0.01,28.18,17.6,0,0,11.33,2.38,29.77,1.73
    S.Italy_Venosa_VEN002:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN002,2.79,8.01,0,12.59,16.3,9.93,3.89,0.01,6.34,27.43,12.71,0
    S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN005,6.66,0,4.28,1.53,32.55,10.92,0,0,10.86,0.37,32.83,0
    S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN006,8.51,0.54,5.29,0.22,27.14,16.32,0,0,9.76,1.99,30.08,0.16
    S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008,4.55,6.58,0,0,36.17,16.54,2.72,0,8.77,0,23.04,1.63
    S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN009,4.96,0,10.9,0.28,29.02,16.26,0,3.03,6.57,0,28.99,0
    S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN010,16.14,0,2.12,1.09,37.1,15.42,0,0.05,13.2,0,14.88,0
    S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN012,2.86,0,1.41,0.17,24.58,14.71,0,1.75,12.7,5.77,36.03,0.03
    S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN013,7.7,0,5.12,0,28.43,14.81,0,0,10.94,1.22,30.32,1.45
    S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN014,12.68,0,5.83,0,33.04,0,0,0.24,17.71,1.35,28.74,0.42
    S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN015,7.16,0,3.85,0.73,28.62,13.96,0.39,0,13.73,0,30.9,0.64
    S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN016,6.56,0,6.02,0,25.63,16.98,0,0,13.65,0.44,30.73,0
    S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN017,1.13,1.55,0,0.12,32.91,17.47,3.75,0,12.37,3.07,27.62,0
    S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN018,9.33,0,3.69,0,27.33,17.18,0,0,19.59,0,20.74,2.14
    S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN021,8.65,0,0.51,3.3,17.54,14.06,0,2.43,21.68,1.47,30.37,0
    S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN022,7.04,0,0,5.28,15.13,25.83,0,0.13,20.82,0,25.77,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-406BCE:VET001,1.52,0,2.24,1.15,42.15,23.87,0,1.18,6.3,0,21.57,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:VET002,0.77,1.24,2.59,0,48.74,18.77,0,0,7.8,0.08,20.03,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_800-590BCE:VET003_4,1.33,0,2.66,0,47.08,21.2,0.25,0.26,7.04,0.15,20.03,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_360-200BCE:VET005,7.72,0.55,0,0,43.13,37.83,0,1.41,1.61,0,7.74,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_806-599BCE:VET007,0,0,2.57,0.68,51.02,20.09,0.22,0,6.74,0.42,17.63,0.63
    C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_372-204BCE:VET008,0.41,0,8.27,0,38.29,9.06,0,1.75,12.78,0.04,28.42,0.99
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_788-545BCE:VET010,0,0,4.61,0.76,48.22,21.92,0.27,0,3.53,0,20.12,0.57
    :Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-413BCE:VET011,0,0,6.57,0,51.11,17.17,0,2.72,3.32,0,19.1,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:VEU001,0,0,1.86,2.69,45.76,22.07,0,0.83,3.79,0,23.01,0
    C.Italy_Etruscan:Volterra(Pisa_Tuscany)_200-60BCE:VOL001,0.94,0,1.77,0,44.5,24.66,0.61,0.03,5.61,0,21.4,0.48

  4. #579
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Thanks Jovialis :)

    … top 5:

    Distance to: Salento
    3.65926222 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_72 9-942CE:TAQ003
    4.74684105 C.Italy_Early.Medieval_ETR014:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany )_977-1022CE:ETR014
    5.19440083 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN015
    5.52571262 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN016
    5.76488508 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN001

  5. #580
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Jovialis do you have Medival Tuscany K12b coordinates? I found Imperial and Republican ones in some of your posts but not the medieval. Not sure if I missed them.
    I believe they have already been published. They probably do not represent all medieval Tuscans, because of geography it might be a bit more complex. Seven come from Chiusi, literally on the border with Umbria, and one from Poggio Pelliccia, Gavorrano, Grosseto, so from south-western Tuscany. ETR014 is an outlier and ends with the southern Italians, all the others join the cluster of central Italy a bit south of the modern Tuscan averages.

    EMA= Early Middle Ages






  6. #581
    Moderator Pax Augusta's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    The four medieval people from Tarquinia, Lazio, are not quite in line with the average based on modern people from Lazio. One is closer to the academic averages of modern Tuscans, two are closer to medieval Tuscans from Chiusi, and one TAQ003 ends up with Molise and Abruzzo. When hundreds of medieval people from all over Italy will be sampled, I think the inconsistencies will multiply.




  7. #582
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    TAQ003 is the one I am closest to:

    Distance to: Jovialis
    3.64458502 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_72 9-942CE:TAQ003
    4.09070899 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN006
    4.15604379 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN013
    5.08536134 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN001
    5.39290274 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN015
    6.16317288 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN016
    6.78350942 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89 5-1016CE:TAQ011
    7.04449430 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)C899-1016CE:ETR013
    7.08010593 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89 9-1021CE:TAQ009
    7.10228836 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_997-1149CE:ETR003
    7.24289997 C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89-236CE:TAQ020
    7.74268687 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN005
    8.41327522 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tu scany)_772-960CE:POP001
    8.57403639 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_10 18-1151CE:TAQ022
    8.62318387 C.Italy_Early.Medieval_ETR014:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany )_977-1022CE:ETR014
    9.44833848 C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_262-424CE:TAQ021
    9.48255767 C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscan y):ETR010
    9.76431769 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)775-945CE:ETR007
    9.92680714 S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_ 660-766CE:VEN009
    11.06943991 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN012
    11.16845110 S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_ 672-800CE:VEN017
    12.35336796 C.Italy_Imperial:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tusc any)_400-530CE:MAS003
    13.35992515 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_772-888CE:ETR006
    13.99985714 :Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany):ETR004
    14.12746262 C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_391-207BCE:TAQ007

  8. #583
    Moderator Pax Augusta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    TAQ003 is the one I am closest to
    TAQ003 does plot with Molise and Abruzzo, so it makes sense is the one you'ore closest to.

  9. #584
    Regular Member Er Monnezza's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Here you go:
    These are the same samples but divided into autosomal clusters. I could have done more specific clusters but then they would have become too many.

    Code:
    Cluster_1:_Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-413BCE_VET011,0,0,6.57,0,51.11,17.17,0,2.72,3.32,0,19.1,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu_related_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE_CSN002,0,0.36,0,0,41.12,32.35,0,0,0,0,26.17,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_770-540BCE_CAM003,0.93,0.04,0.79,0,49.21,23.83,0,0,7,0.18,16.98,1.04
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_780-540BCE_CAM001,1.38,0.19,1.2,0,47.62,24.58,0,0,6.88,0,17.87,0.27
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_380-204BCE_CSN003,0.97,0.01,2,0,49.14,21.97,1.05,0,7.95,0.53,15.93,0.45
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE_CSN009,2.52,0,2.03,0,39.86,27.95,0,0,2.52,0.43,23.93,0.75
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_533-392BCE_CSN006,3.62,0,0,1.53,45.77,24.02,0.29,0,4.9,0,19.6,0.27
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_805-774BCE_ETR005,2,0,0,1.54,45.54,20.52,0.17,0,9.35,1.02,18.73,1.13
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_MaglianoinToscana(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE_MAG001,0.84,0,0,0,47.05,24.88,0.37,0.08,3.46,0.47,22.84,0.02
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_804-557BCE_MAS004,1.12,0,0.85,0,44.63,29.23,0,0,1.36,1.35,21.46,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_PoggioRenzo(Siena_Tuscany)_772-436BCE_PRZ002,0,0,2.6,0.54,47.1,27.43,0,0,4.06,1.06,17.2,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_PoggioRenzo(Siena_Tuscany)_794-543BCE_PRZ001,1.55,0.11,0,0,48.41,23.78,0,0,6.08,0.13,19.22,0.71
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_related_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE_TAQ005,1.39,0.44,5.14,0,46.29,17.75,0.22,0.33,8.86,0.41,18.68,0.49
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_related_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE_TAQ018,0,0,0.47,0,48.53,20.84,0.43,0,6.5,1.43,20.91,0.89
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_related_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE_TAQ001,2.36,0,4.12,0.57,47.15,23.95,0,0,4.6,0,17.25,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_related_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE_TAQ017,4.08,0,1.96,0,48.92,20.11,0,0,5.6,0,19.12,0.21
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_103BCE-54CE_TAQ002,0,0,1.15,0.26,46.51,23.88,0,0,5.81,0,21.27,1.12
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE_TAQ015,1.72,0,2.42,0,46.31,21.99,0,0,6.46,0.63,19.66,0.81
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE_TAQ024,1.55,0.2,4.01,0.27,46.92,21.83,0,0.36,4.57,0,20.29,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_358-98BCE_TAQ019,0.49,0,2.18,0,47.66,24.5,0.17,0,5.48,0.04,19.27,0.21
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_CSN001,0.74,0,1.6,0.73,46.5,23.83,0,0,7.19,0,19.25,0.16
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_CSN004,1.49,0,2.17,0.71,51.75,19.41,0.13,0,5.2,0,18.21,0.93
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_CSN005,1.48,0,4.65,0,39.23,28.19,0.65,0,6.11,0.54,19.16,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_CSN007,0,0,0,0.5,50.29,20.45,0,0,10.86,0,17.91,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_CSN008,4.93,0,0,0.4,43.71,27.95,0,0,4.16,0,18.84,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_CSN013,4.87,0,0.54,0,45.93,21.96,0.41,0,5.92,0.25,19.55,0.57
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)__TAQ004,1.71,0.66,0.95,0.36,48.5,23.89,0,0,5.59,0,17.87,0.48
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)__TAQ006,1.18,0,3.59,0,42.96,25.05,0.15,0,2.83,0,24.24,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_TAQ008,4.27,1.3,0.28,0.84,49.67,21.5,0,0,3.99,0,17.53,0.63
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_TAQ010,0,0,1.32,0.05,48.43,24.81,0.71,0,4.04,0,20.41,0.24
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_TAQ012,3.32,0,1.79,0,51.8,17.96,0.72,0,7.3,0,16.79,0.33
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_TAQ013,2.83,1.64,1.78,0,46.46,21.33,0,0,6.68,0,19.04,0.23
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_TAQ016,2.43,0,1.67,0,46.91,24.12,0.84,0,5.34,0,18.06,0.63
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-406BCE_VET001,1.52,0,2.24,1.15,42.15,23.87,0,1.18,6.3,0,21.57,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_788-545BCE_VET010,0,0,4.61,0.76,48.22,21.92,0.27,0,3.53,0,20.12,0.57
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE_VET002,0.77,1.24,2.59,0,48.74,18.77,0,0,7.8,0.08,20.03,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE_VEU001,0,0,1.86,2.69,45.76,22.07,0,0.83,3.79,0,23.01,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_800-590BCE_VET003_4,1.33,0,2.66,0,47.08,21.2,0.25,0.26,7.04,0.15,20.03,0
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_806-599BCE_VET007,0,0,2.57,0.68,51.02,20.09,0.22,0,6.74,0.42,17.63,0.63
    Cluster_1:C.Italy_Etruscan_Volterra(Pisa_Tuscany)_200-60BCE_VOL001,0.94,0,1.77,0,44.5,24.66,0.61,0.03,5.61,0,21.4,0.48
    Cluster_2:_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_CSN012,7.01,0,10.55,0,41.84,29.45,0,0,0,0,11.15,0
    Cluster_2:C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu_CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_770-520BCE_CAM002,4.72,0.03,0,1.59,40.47,34.19,0,0,4.64,0,13.94,0.44
    Cluster_2:C.Italy_Etruscan.Ceu_Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_360-200BCE_VET005,7.72,0.55,0,0,43.13,37.83,0,1.41,1.61,0,7.74,0
    Cluster_2:C.Italy_Etruscan_related_Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_380-204BCE_CSN010,4.43,0.27,3.49,0,40.36,31.59,0,0,5.33,1.81,11.48,1.25
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)775-945CE_ETR007,5.51,0,2.37,1.28,30.11,25.01,0,0,8.81,0,26.92,0
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_772-888CE_ETR006,3.87,1.22,0,0,39.39,15.01,0,0,12.67,0,26.45,1.39
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_997-1149CE_ETR003,10.36,0,2.55,0,30.58,19.47,0,0,10.98,0,25.66,0.41
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)C899-1016CE_ETR013,6.64,0.06,1.86,0,35.44,14.98,0,0,9.51,0,31.24,0.28
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_ETR014_Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_977-1022CE_ETR014,3.51,0,2.87,0,27.31,14.86,0.51,0,14.53,0,36.4,0
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_772-960CE_POP001,4.72,0.15,0.86,0,35.02,19.76,0,0,8.74,1.36,28.84,0.55
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_729-942CE_TAQ003,5.6,0,2.14,1.3,29.31,17.09,0.1,0.93,11.36,0,31.59,0.58
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_895-1016CE_TAQ011,6.51,0.15,1.38,0.03,33.17,19.02,0,1.09,10.21,0,27.5,0.96
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_899-1021CE_TAQ009,4.13,0.23,2.43,0.82,33.16,19.69,0.14,0,9.54,0,28.81,1.06
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_1018-1151CE_TAQ022,5.66,0,2.84,0,34.54,19.74,2.22,0,6.34,0,28.11,0.54
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated_Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_ETR010,4.58,0.05,1.08,0.22,37.3,17.15,0.08,0,9.4,0,29.53,0.6
    Cluster_3:C.Italy_Imperial_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89-236CE_TAQ020,9.02,0.66,1.49,0.5,34.13,18.73,0.12,0,7.43,0,27.92,0
    Cluster_3:S.Italy_Venosa_related_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE_VEN009,4.96,0,10.9,0.28,29.02,16.26,0,3.03,6.57,0,28.99,0
    Cluster_3:S.Italy_Venosa_related_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE_VEN017,1.13,1.55,0,0.12,32.91,17.47,3.75,0,12.37,3.07,27.62,0
    Cluster_3:S.Italy_Venosa_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE_VEN006,8.51,0.54,5.29,0.22,27.14,16.32,0,0,9.76,1.99,30.08,0.16
    Cluster_3:S.Italy_Venosa_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE_VEN001,5.14,0,3.87,0.01,28.18,17.6,0,0,11.33,2.38,29.77,1.73
    Cluster_3:S.Italy_Venosa_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE_VEN008,4.55,6.58,0,0,36.17,16.54,2.72,0,8.77,0,23.04,1.63
    Cluster_3:S.Italy_Venosa_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE_VEN012,2.86,0,1.41,0.17,24.58,14.71,0,1.75,12.7,5.77,36.03,0.03
    Cluster_3:S.Italy_Venosa_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE_VEN013,7.7,0,5.12,0,28.43,14.81,0,0,10.94,1.22,30.32,1.45
    Cluster_3:S.Italy_Venosa_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE_VEN015,7.16,0,3.85,0.73,28.62,13.96,0.39,0,13.73,0,30.9,0.64
    Cluster_3:S.Italy_Venosa_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE_VEN016,6.56,0,6.02,0,25.63,16.98,0,0,13.65,0.44,30.73,0
    Cluster_4:_Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_ETR004,17.44,0,0,0,19.59,19.63,0,0,11.7,0,31.64,0
    Cluster_5:C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated_Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_ETR012,17.52,1.96,0,0,41.58,12.98,3.45,0.35,5.74,0,16.42,0
    Cluster_5:S.Italy_Venosa_related_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE_VEN010,16.14,0,2.12,1.09,37.1,15.42,0,0.05,13.2,0,14.88,0
    Cluster_6:C.Italy_Etruscan_MAS001_Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_350-100BCE_MAS001,7.2,0.84,4.18,0,26.73,30.23,1.6,0.6,6.25,1.12,21.08,0.18
    Cluster_7:C.Italy_Imperial_Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_240-380CE_MAS002,6.49,1.52,3.63,0,23.56,7.82,0,0.48,18.33,0.02,38.16,0
    Cluster_8:C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_391-207BCE_TAQ007,3.25,0.65,8.19,0,33.36,6.55,0.82,0,13.72,0.07,31.87,1.52
    Cluster_8:C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_396-216BCE_TAQ023,0.11,0,9.86,0,38.6,11.68,0.88,1.34,10.18,0,26.04,1.31
    Cluster_8:C.Italy_Etruscan.Afr_Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_372-204BCE_VET008,0.41,0,8.27,0,38.29,9.06,0,1.75,12.78,0.04,28.42,0.99
    Cluster_8:C.Italy_Imperial_Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_400-530CE_MAS003,2.81,0,8.6,1.47,34.71,11.66,0,1.28,11.86,0,26.84,0.76
    Cluster_8:C.Italy_Imperial_Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_262-424CE_TAQ021,3.74,0,2.51,0,33.22,11.47,2.01,0,12.62,0,34.44,0
    Cluster_8:S.Italy_Venosa_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE_VEN005,6.66,0,4.28,1.53,32.55,10.92,0,0,10.86,0.37,32.83,0
    Cluster_9:C.Italy_Etruscan_UDC_P_Chiostraccio(Siena_Tuscany)_174-53BCE_UDC_P,0,0,4.31,0,52.14,29.39,0,0,0.89,0,13.22,0.04
    Cluster_10:S.Italy_Venosa_VEN002_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE_VEN002,2.79,8.01,0,12.59,16.3,9.93,3.89,0.01,6.34,27.43,12.71,0
    Cluster_11:S.Italy_Venosa_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE_VEN014,12.68,0,5.83,0,33.04,0,0,0.24,17.71,1.35,28.74,0.42
    Cluster_12:S.Italy_Venosa_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE_VEN018,9.33,0,3.69,0,27.33,17.18,0,0,19.59,0,20.74,2.14
    Cluster_13:S.Italy_Venosa_related_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE_VEN021,8.65,0,0.51,3.3,17.54,14.06,0,2.43,21.68,1.47,30.37,0
    Cluster_14:S.Italy_Venosa_related_Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE_VEN022,7.04,0,0,5.28,15.13,25.83,0,0.13,20.82,0,25.77,0
    Averages

    Code:
    Cluster_1,1.50825,0.15475,1.90325,0.3395,46.8615,23.13975,0.1915,0.14475,5.5195,0.228,19.65325,0.35625
    Cluster_2,5.97,0.2125,3.51,0.3975,41.45,33.265,0,0.3525,2.895,0.4525,11.0775,0.4225
    Cluster_3,5.6514286,0.53285714,2.777619,0.27047619,31.435238,17.388571,0.47761905,0.32380952,10.444762,0.77285714,29.354762,0.57190476
    Cluster_4,17.44,0,0,0,19.59,19.63,0,0,11.7,0,31.64,0
    Cluster_5,16.83,0.98,1.06,0.545,39.34,14.2,1.725,0.2,9.47,0,15.65,0
    Cluster_6,7.2,0.84,4.18,0,26.73,30.23,1.6,0.6,6.25,1.12,21.08,0.18
    Cluster_7,6.49,1.52,3.63,0,23.56,7.82,0,0.48,18.33,0.02,38.16,0
    Cluster_8,2.83,0.10833333,6.9516667,0.5,35.121667,10.223333,0.61833333,0.72833333,12.003333,0.08,30.073333,0.76333333
    Cluster_9,0,0,4.31,0,52.14,29.39,0,0,0.89,0,13.22,0.04
    Cluster_10,2.79,8.01,0,12.59,16.3,9.93,3.89,0.01,6.34,27.43,12.71,0
    Cluster_11,12.68,0,5.83,0,33.04,0,0,0.24,17.71,1.35,28.74,0.42
    Cluster_12,9.33,0,3.69,0,27.33,17.18,0,0,19.59,0,20.74,2.14
    Cluster_13,8.65,0,0.51,3.3,17.54,14.06,0,2.43,21.68,1.47,30.37,0
    Cluster_14,7.04,0,0,5.28,15.13,25.83,0,0.13,20.82,0,25.77,0

  10. #585
    Moderator Pax Augusta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Er Monnezza View Post
    These are the same samples but divided into autosomal clusters. I could have done more specific clusters but then they would have become too many.
    I have some doubts about some of these clusters. In any case, the clusters + modern academic samples









  11. #586
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Tarquinia-Monterozzi ones are missing, yes?


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  12. #587
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    H6a1b7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The Tarquinia-Monterozzi ones are missing, yes?
    This is from the initial post I made with the coordinates, when it was first available :

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...553#post631553

  13. #588
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The Tarquinia-Monterozzi ones are missing, yes?
    Supposedly, the majority of the Taq samples come from the Monterozzi necropolis.

    … “According to the limited catalogue descriptions on the provenance, the majority of the analyzed skulls derived from either private or municipal excavations in the Monterozzi necropolis conducted between 1877 and 1879. However, an assignment of the skulls to the associated burial contexts or to certain areas of the necropolis is not possible due to the incomplete available information.
    Radiocarbon dating shows that at least four individuals (TAQ003, TAQ009, TAQ011, TAQ022) likely represent inhabitants of the medieval town of Corneto that had moved towards the Monterozzi hill. Their catalogue descriptions do not refer to the Monterozzi necropolis, and apart from a simple ascending numbering (“Tarquinia 1, Tarquinia 2”, etc.) there is no specification about their provenance. Two other skulls (TAQ020, TAQ021) belong to the same numbering system, but date to the Imperial Roman period. Additionally, four of the analyzed skulls are described in the catalogue as tomba etrusca (Etruscan tomb) (TAQ004, TAQ006, TAQ007, TAQ010) and seven are referred to as tomba romana (Roman tomb) or deposito romano (Roman deposit) (TAQ012, TAQ015, TAQ016, TAQ017, TAQ018, TAQ019, TAQ023), without an explanation of how this classification had been performed. Most likely classification was performed by grave goods and/or tomb building style. According to radiocarbon dating, all five dated individuals listed as tomba romana or deposito romano have an age that is in line with the Roman Republic period” …

    https://www.science.org/action/downl...abi7673_SM.pdf

  14. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Supposedly, the majority of the Taq samples come from the Monterozzi necropolis.

    … “According to the limited catalogue descriptions on the provenance, the majority of the analyzed skulls derived from either private or municipal excavations in the Monterozzi necropolis conducted between 1877 and 1879. However, an assignment of the skulls to the associated burial contexts or to certain areas of the necropolis is not possible due to the incomplete available information.
    Radiocarbon dating shows that at least four individuals (TAQ003, TAQ009, TAQ011, TAQ022) likely represent inhabitants of the medieval town of Corneto that had moved towards the Monterozzi hill. Their catalogue descriptions do not refer to the Monterozzi necropolis, and apart from a simple ascending numbering (“Tarquinia 1, Tarquinia 2”, etc.) there is no specification about their provenance. Two other skulls (TAQ020, TAQ021) belong to the same numbering system, but date to the Imperial Roman period. Additionally, four of the analyzed skulls are described in the catalogue as tomba etrusca (Etruscan tomb) (TAQ004, TAQ006, TAQ007, TAQ010) and seven are referred to as tomba romana (Roman tomb) or deposito romano (Roman deposit) (TAQ012, TAQ015, TAQ016, TAQ017, TAQ018, TAQ019, TAQ023), without an explanation of how this classification had been performed. Most likely classification was performed by grave goods and/or tomb building style. According to radiocarbon dating, all five dated individuals listed as tomba romana or deposito romano have an age that is in line with the Roman Republic period” …

    https://www.science.org/action/downl...abi7673_SM.pdf
    O.K., but I think the samples that were specifically labelled as being from Monterozzi are different from the ones in the list Jovialis just posted. I know that because while I get a distance of 5 to a B.C. Etruscan sample (R10343), my closest distance to a B.C. sample using the list of samples posted by Jovialis is an 8.

    Distance to: Angela
    5.15410516 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    6.30652836 R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE
    7.97667224 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    9.06009382 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    10.57215683 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    11.94774874 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    13.14547070 R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    13.24072506 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    13.33748852 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    13.72491894 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    13.87059119 R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    14.11623533 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    14.27710755 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    15.14151908 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    15.50673725 R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    15.93252962 R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    16.09062771 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    16.11301337 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    16.35236374 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    16.84864386 R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE

    6.39419268 C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscan y):ETR010
    6.66446547 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_10 18-1151CE:TAQ022
    7.26718653 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tu scany)_772-960CE:POP001
    8.05195628 C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-406BCE:VET001
    8.26525257 C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_ :TAQ006
    8.33593426 C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89-236CE:TAQ020
    8.88801440 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_772-888CE:ETR006
    8.96155678 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89 9-1021CE:TAQ009
    9.04024889 C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:VEU001
    9.27407677 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)C899-1016CE:ETR013
    9.28820758 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89 5-1016CE:TAQ011
    9.36452882 C.Italy_Etruscan:Volterra(Pisa_Tuscany)_200-60BCE:VOL001
    9.50057893 C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tusca ny):CSN013
    10.00465891 C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE:TAQ015
    10.05611257 C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE:TAQ024
    10.12604069 C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE:CSN009
    10.13955620 C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_800-590BCE:VET003_4
    10.22931572 C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio): TAQ013
    10.25778729 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008
    10.48135487 C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_533-392BCE:CSN006
    10.54234319 C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_103BCE-54CE:TAQ002
    10.66444091 C.Italy_Etruscan:MaglianoinToscana(Grosseto_Tuscan y)_790-550BCE:MAG001
    10.97209187 C.Italy_Etruscan:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_805-774BCE:ETR005
    11.24998667 C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_ 346-51BCE:TAQ018
    11.25538094 C.Italy_Etruscan_related:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_ 356-96BCE:TAQ017

    As Jovialis implied, new samples have come out.

    For the sake of completeness the new Etruscan samples should be added to the list, yes?

    Also, I really don't understand all the talk from the authors and some in the anthro world that the Medieval Tuscans were Eastern Med like. These are the closest populations to my first three "Early Medieval" Tuscan samples.

    Distance to: C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscan y):ETR010
    5.02440046 French_Corsica
    5.26141084 Italian_Marche
    5.52515158 Italian_Romagna
    5.71244256 Italian_Umbria
    6.59193447 Italian_Tuscany
    6.84526113 Italian_Lazio
    8.15754865 Italian_Emilia
    8.87920605 Italian_Liguria
    9.69074301 Italian_Abruzzo
    10.01716527 Italian_Molise
    10.99793617 Albanian
    11.10661515 Italian_Campania
    11.19838381 Italian_Lombardy
    11.75719780 Greek_Central
    11.84891134 Greek_Athens
    12.31078795 Greek_Thrace
    12.36642228 Italian_Apulia
    12.44993574 Italian_Basilicata
    12.45418002 Greek_Thessaly
    12.45619525 Italian_Piedmont
    12.49764378 Italian_Sicily
    12.64545373 Italian_Veneto
    12.79305671 Albanian_Kosovo
    12.86448600 Greek_Peloponnese
    13.48138717 Greek_Thessaloniki




    Distance to: C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_10 18-1151CE:TAQ022
    3.91677163 Italian_Romagna
    4.05738832 Italian_Umbria
    4.62531339 Italian_Marche
    5.07221845 Italian_Lazio
    5.31941726 Italian_Tuscany
    6.52240753 Italian_Emilia
    6.86460487 French_Corsica
    7.29891088 Italian_Liguria
    8.50792572 Albanian
    9.38618133 Greek_Thessaly
    9.51462558 Greek_Thrace
    9.63508173 Italian_Lombardy
    9.63739073 Italian_Abruzzo
    9.64062757 Albanian_Kosovo
    9.79988265 Italian_Veneto
    10.10194041 Italian_Piedmont
    10.31402443 Greek_Central
    10.57133861 Greek_Peloponnese
    10.66870189 Greek_Thessaloniki
    10.69634050 Greek_Athens
    10.94870769 Italian_Molise
    10.98788424 Macedonian_South
    11.09392627 Macedonian_Vardar
    11.64879393 Italian_Apulia
    11.87412313 Italian_Friuli_VG

    Distance to: C.Italy_Early.Medieval:PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tu scany)_772-960CE:POP001
    2.98288451 Italian_Umbria
    3.02848147 Italian_Romagna
    3.73006756 Italian_Marche
    4.57890817 Italian_Lazio
    4.90730068 Italian_Tuscany
    6.49943074 Italian_Emilia
    6.55141206 French_Corsica
    7.34635284 Italian_Liguria
    7.91252172 Albanian
    9.05593176 Italian_Abruzzo
    9.11566235 Greek_Thrace
    9.17095415 Greek_Thessaly
    9.30773334 Albanian_Kosovo
    9.54426006 Greek_Central
    9.77453835 Italian_Lombardy
    9.78190677 Greek_Athens
    9.87338848 Italian_Molise
    10.17379968 Greek_Peloponnese
    10.29294419 Italian_Veneto
    10.34659364 Greek_Thessaloniki
    10.53009022 Italian_Piedmont
    10.90444863 Macedonian_South
    11.11422512 Italian_Apulia
    11.31634658 Italian_Campania
    11.37142032 Macedonian_Vardar

  15. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Supposedly, the majority of the Taq samples come from the Monterozzi necropolis.
    There are supposed to be more necropolises in Tarquinia, for example, there is a necropolis from the Villanovan period at 'Le Rose'. I believe that the one at Monterozzi is by far the largest. Monterozzi is a very large hill, after which the necropolis is named. So it is plausible that the majority of the samples in the Posht 2021 study come from there, as do those in the still pre-print study by Moots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    For the sake of completeness the new Etruscan samples should be added to the list, yes?
    Code:
    R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,8.39,0,4.23,0.02,14.92,0,0,1.82,26.08,0.60,43.93,0.02
    R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,1.43,0,1.33,1.31,45.54,24.78,0,0,5.23,0,20.20,0.17
    R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.72,0,0,0,47.09,27.17,0,0.38,3.98,0.96,16.09,0.61
    R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,5.36,0.92,2.37,0,44.54,35.11,0,0,0.67,0.29,10.47,0.28
    R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.53,0,0.89,0.50,42.32,22.36,0,0.20,6.37,0,23.83,0
    R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,0,0,1.23,0,46.50,22.77,0,0.45,5.62,0,23.36,0.06
    R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,2.99,0.05,0,0.53,50.17,22.59,0,0,5.48,0,17.89,0.30
    R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.60,0,0.51,0.44,47.07,28.51,0,0,3.73,0.34,15.32,0.48
    R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,1.29,0.37,1.15,0.50,45.66,26.89,0.46,0,5.41,0,17.79,0.48
    R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,0,0,0.03,0,48.34,33.89,0,0,3.33,0.03,13.48,0.90
    R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,2.02,0,1.27,0.73,48.52,24.33,0,0,4.65,0,17.94,0.54
    R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,1.58,0.48,0.37,0,51.51,23.78,0,0,5.12,0,16.42,0.73
    R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,0,0,1.27,0,51.48,23.67,0,0,6.23,0.38,16.75,0.22

  17. #592
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    edit: nevermind, … Pax did it already :)

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post645929
    Last edited by Salento; 11-08-22 at 00:37.

  18. #593
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    More or less, the new Etruscan samples are very similar to those already published




  19. #594
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    More or less, the new Etruscan samples are very similar to those already published




  20. #595
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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Thanks to Jovialis and Pax and Salento:

    My results using the complete set of Etruscan samples: B.C., Imperial and EMA as presented here.
    Distance to: Angela
    5.15410516 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    6.39419268 C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscan y):ETR010
    6.66446547 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_10 18-1151CE:TAQ022
    7.26718653 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tu scany)_772-960CE:POP001
    8.05195628 C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-406BCE:VET001
    8.26525257 C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_ :TAQ006
    8.33593426 C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89-236CE:TAQ020
    8.88801440 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_772-888CE:ETR006
    8.96155678 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89 9-1021CE:TAQ009
    9.04024889 C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:VEU001
    9.06009382 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    9.27407677 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)C899-1016CE:ETR013
    9.28820758 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89 5-1016CE:TAQ011
    9.36452882 C.Italy_Etruscan:Volterra(Pisa_Tuscany)_200-60BCE:VOL001
    9.50057893 C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tusca ny):CSN013
    10.00465891 C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE:TAQ015
    10.05611257 C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE:TAQ024
    10.12604069 C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE:CSN009
    10.13955620 C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_800-590BCE:VET003_4
    10.22931572 C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio): TAQ013
    10.25778729 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008
    10.48135487 C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_533-392BCE:CSN006
    10.54234319 C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_103BCE-54CE:TAQ002
    10.57215683 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    10.66444091 C.Italy_Etruscan:MaglianoinToscana(Grosseto_Tuscan y)_790-550BCE:MAG001

    The modern closest samples to 2,3,and 4 I provided up thread.

    This is the closest modern group to my first closest sample:
    Distance to: R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    4.23489079 Italian_Lombardy
    5.18297212 Italian_Liguria
    5.53000000 Italian_Emilia
    6.44970542 French_Corsica
    6.51933279 Italian_Tuscany
    6.81667808 Italian_Piedmont
    7.52742071 Swiss_Italian
    7.59028326 Italian_Veneto
    9.16475313 Italian_Trentino
    9.29428857 Italian_Romagna
    10.44050765 Spanish_Baleares
    10.59155796 Italian_Friuli_VG
    10.87286991 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    11.21395113 Italian_Umbria
    12.02955111 Spanish_Castilla-Leon
    12.27713729 Spanish_Valencia
    12.31253605 Italian_Marche
    12.38050080 Portuguese
    12.98645448 Spanish_Catalonia
    12.99473355 Italian_Lazio
    13.08614917 Spanish_Canarias
    13.84442487 Spanish_Andalusia
    14.19827454 Spanish_Aragon
    14.37990612 Spanish_Galicia
    14.74407678 Albanian_Kosovo


    My closest EMA samples are closest to Corsica, Romagna, Marche and Umbria.

    Distance to: C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscan y):ETR010
    5.02440046 French_Corsica
    5.26141084 Italian_Marche
    5.52515158 Italian_Romagna
    5.71244256 Italian_Umbria
    6.59193447 Italian_Tuscany
    6.84526113 Italian_Lazio
    8.15754865 Italian_Emilia
    8.87920605 Italian_Liguria
    9.69074301 Italian_Abruzzo
    10.01716527 Italian_Molise
    10.99793617 Albanian
    11.10661515 Italian_Campania
    11.19838381 Italian_Lombardy
    11.75719780 Greek_Central
    11.84891134 Greek_Athens
    12.31078795 Greek_Thrace
    12.36642228 Italian_Apulia
    12.44993574 Italian_Basilicata
    12.45418002 Greek_Thessaly
    12.45619525 Italian_Piedmont
    12.49764378 Italian_Sicily
    12.64545373 Italian_Veneto
    12.79305671 Albanian_Kosovo
    12.86448600 Greek_Peloponnese
    13.48138717 Greek_Thessaloniki





    Distance to: C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_10 18-1151CE:TAQ022
    3.91677163 Italian_Romagna
    4.05738832 Italian_Umbria
    4.62531339 Italian_Marche
    5.07221845 Italian_Lazio
    5.31941726 Italian_Tuscany
    6.52240753 Italian_Emilia
    6.86460487 French_Corsica
    7.29891088 Italian_Liguria
    8.50792572 Albanian
    9.38618133 Greek_Thessaly
    9.51462558 Greek_Thrace
    9.63508173 Italian_Lombardy
    9.63739073 Italian_Abruzzo
    9.64062757 Albanian_Kosovo
    9.79988265 Italian_Veneto
    10.10194041 Italian_Piedmont
    10.31402443 Greek_Central
    10.57133861 Greek_Peloponnese
    10.66870189 Greek_Thessaloniki
    10.69634050 Greek_Athens
    10.94870769 Italian_Molise
    10.98788424 Macedonian_South
    11.09392627 Macedonian_Vardar
    11.64879393 Italian_Apulia
    11.87412313 Italian_Friuli_VG


    Distance to: C.Italy_Early.Medieval:PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tu scany)_772-960CE:POP001
    2.98288451 Italian_Umbria
    3.02848147 Italian_Romagna
    3.73006756 Italian_Marche
    4.57890817 Italian_Lazio
    4.90730068 Italian_Tuscany
    6.49943074 Italian_Emilia
    6.55141206 French_Corsica
    7.34635284 Italian_Liguria
    7.91252172 Albanian
    9.05593176 Italian_Abruzzo
    9.11566235 Greek_Thrace
    9.17095415 Greek_Thessaly
    9.30773334 Albanian_Kosovo
    9.54426006 Greek_Central
    9.77453835 Italian_Lombardy
    9.78190677 Greek_Athens
    9.87338848 Italian_Molise
    10.17379968 Greek_Peloponnese
    10.29294419 Italian_Veneto
    10.34659364 Greek_Thessaloniki
    10.53009022 Italian_Piedmont
    10.90444863 Macedonian_South
    11.11422512 Italian_Apulia
    11.31634658 Italian_Campania
    11.37142032 Macedonian_Vardar

    I don't see East Med populations anywhere, and as with the Latin samples, I'm at a respectable distance to some Etruscan B.C. samples.

    So, the Etruscans and the Latins didn't go anywhere; they just mixed with some Minoan/Anatolian Bronze Age people, with the amount following the "Italian cline".

  21. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Thanks to Jovialis and Pax and Salento:

    My results using the complete set of Etruscan samples: B.C., Imperial and EMA as presented here.
    Distance to: Angela
    5.15410516 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    6.39419268 C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscan y):ETR010
    6.66446547 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_10 18-1151CE:TAQ022
    7.26718653 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tu scany)_772-960CE:POP001
    8.05195628 C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-406BCE:VET001
    8.26525257 C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_ :TAQ006
    8.33593426 C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89-236CE:TAQ020
    8.88801440 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_772-888CE:ETR006
    8.96155678 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89 9-1021CE:TAQ009
    9.04024889 C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:VEU001
    9.06009382 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    9.27407677 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)C899-1016CE:ETR013
    9.28820758 C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89 5-1016CE:TAQ011
    9.36452882 C.Italy_Etruscan:Volterra(Pisa_Tuscany)_200-60BCE:VOL001
    9.50057893 C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tusca ny):CSN013
    10.00465891 C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE:TAQ015
    10.05611257 C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE:TAQ024
    10.12604069 C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE:CSN009
    10.13955620 C.Italy_Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_800-590BCE:VET003_4
    10.22931572 C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio): TAQ013
    10.25778729 S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008
    10.48135487 C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_533-392BCE:CSN006
    10.54234319 C.Italy_Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_103BCE-54CE:TAQ002
    10.57215683 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    10.66444091 C.Italy_Etruscan:MaglianoinToscana(Grosseto_Tuscan y)_790-550BCE:MAG001

    The modern closest samples to 2,3,and 4 I provided up thread.

    This is the closest modern group to my first closest sample:
    Distance to: R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    4.23489079 Italian_Lombardy
    5.18297212 Italian_Liguria
    5.53000000 Italian_Emilia
    6.44970542 French_Corsica
    6.51933279 Italian_Tuscany
    6.81667808 Italian_Piedmont
    7.52742071 Swiss_Italian
    7.59028326 Italian_Veneto
    9.16475313 Italian_Trentino
    9.29428857 Italian_Romagna
    10.44050765 Spanish_Baleares
    10.59155796 Italian_Friuli_VG
    10.87286991 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    11.21395113 Italian_Umbria
    12.02955111 Spanish_Castilla-Leon
    12.27713729 Spanish_Valencia
    12.31253605 Italian_Marche
    12.38050080 Portuguese
    12.98645448 Spanish_Catalonia
    12.99473355 Italian_Lazio
    13.08614917 Spanish_Canarias
    13.84442487 Spanish_Andalusia
    14.19827454 Spanish_Aragon
    14.37990612 Spanish_Galicia
    14.74407678 Albanian_Kosovo


    My closest EMA samples are closest to Corsica, Romagna, Marche and Umbria.

    Distance to: C.Italy_Early.Medieval_undated:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscan y):ETR010
    5.02440046 French_Corsica
    5.26141084 Italian_Marche
    5.52515158 Italian_Romagna
    5.71244256 Italian_Umbria
    6.59193447 Italian_Tuscany
    6.84526113 Italian_Lazio
    8.15754865 Italian_Emilia
    8.87920605 Italian_Liguria
    9.69074301 Italian_Abruzzo
    10.01716527 Italian_Molise
    10.99793617 Albanian
    11.10661515 Italian_Campania
    11.19838381 Italian_Lombardy
    11.75719780 Greek_Central
    11.84891134 Greek_Athens
    12.31078795 Greek_Thrace
    12.36642228 Italian_Apulia
    12.44993574 Italian_Basilicata
    12.45418002 Greek_Thessaly
    12.45619525 Italian_Piedmont
    12.49764378 Italian_Sicily
    12.64545373 Italian_Veneto
    12.79305671 Albanian_Kosovo
    12.86448600 Greek_Peloponnese
    13.48138717 Greek_Thessaloniki





    Distance to: C.Italy_Early.Medieval:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_10 18-1151CE:TAQ022
    3.91677163 Italian_Romagna
    4.05738832 Italian_Umbria
    4.62531339 Italian_Marche
    5.07221845 Italian_Lazio
    5.31941726 Italian_Tuscany
    6.52240753 Italian_Emilia
    6.86460487 French_Corsica
    7.29891088 Italian_Liguria
    8.50792572 Albanian
    9.38618133 Greek_Thessaly
    9.51462558 Greek_Thrace
    9.63508173 Italian_Lombardy
    9.63739073 Italian_Abruzzo
    9.64062757 Albanian_Kosovo
    9.79988265 Italian_Veneto
    10.10194041 Italian_Piedmont
    10.31402443 Greek_Central
    10.57133861 Greek_Peloponnese
    10.66870189 Greek_Thessaloniki
    10.69634050 Greek_Athens
    10.94870769 Italian_Molise
    10.98788424 Macedonian_South
    11.09392627 Macedonian_Vardar
    11.64879393 Italian_Apulia
    11.87412313 Italian_Friuli_VG


    Distance to: C.Italy_Early.Medieval:PoggioPelliccia(Grosseto_Tu scany)_772-960CE:POP001
    2.98288451 Italian_Umbria
    3.02848147 Italian_Romagna
    3.73006756 Italian_Marche
    4.57890817 Italian_Lazio
    4.90730068 Italian_Tuscany
    6.49943074 Italian_Emilia
    6.55141206 French_Corsica
    7.34635284 Italian_Liguria
    7.91252172 Albanian
    9.05593176 Italian_Abruzzo
    9.11566235 Greek_Thrace
    9.17095415 Greek_Thessaly
    9.30773334 Albanian_Kosovo
    9.54426006 Greek_Central
    9.77453835 Italian_Lombardy
    9.78190677 Greek_Athens
    9.87338848 Italian_Molise
    10.17379968 Greek_Peloponnese
    10.29294419 Italian_Veneto
    10.34659364 Greek_Thessaloniki
    10.53009022 Italian_Piedmont
    10.90444863 Macedonian_South
    11.11422512 Italian_Apulia
    11.31634658 Italian_Campania
    11.37142032 Macedonian_Vardar

    I don't see East Med populations anywhere, and as with the Latin samples, I'm at a respectable distance to some Etruscan B.C. samples.

    So, the Etruscans and the Latins didn't go anywhere; they just mixed with some Minoan/Anatolian Bronze Age people, with the amount following the "Italian cline".
    I believe this is the most plausible theory.

    Basically, the south was Minoan-like, mixed with Italic/Etruscan-like people, as well as some Anatolia_BA-like people which creates the core of it. I believe the same dynamic happened in the Balkans, except, instead of Italic/Etruscans, it was people local Northern-shifted Balkan groups to there who were similar. Because the Balkans is also partly Aegean_IA-like on a cline to southern Greece.

  22. #597
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    I wonder if there is anything to this, if there was a minoan-like presence, there could have also been a yamnaya-minoan-like cline as well. I wonder is there is anything to the fact that Yamnaya_Bulgaria_o, Scythians, Helladic_Lokgos_MBA, Mycenaean form a bridge between Minoan and Yamnaya.




  23. #598
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    ^^If so, then I think it would be Italics/Etruscan-like + Minoan>Yamnaya-Clined people+Anatolia_BA-like.

  24. #599
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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  25. #600
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Very interesting. The ABA would have gone into the Minoans as well.

    Can't wait to see if Reich or someone has Bronze Age Southern Italian samples which look "Minoan like", or if the ABA came largely later.

  26. #601
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    Indeed, minoans themselves look like they're on a cline between ABA and Greece_N. Makes sense Minoans have slightly more CHG from Greece_N.

    Eric Cline states in his book that the Minoans likely came from Anatolia.

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