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Thread: Who were the people of Trebeniste Culture?

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    Who were the people of Trebeniste Culture?

    Let me quote wikipedia for basic informations:

    Trebeništa (Macedonian: Требеништа) is an ancient necropolis dating from the Iron Age, i.e. around the 7th century BC.[1] The site is located near Trebeništa in modern-day North Macedonia.[1] It is believed that the necropolis was used by the people from the ancient town of Lychnidos. Whether product of Illyrian,[2]Thracian, or a mixed Thraco-Aegean civilization,[3] its characteristics suggests some cultural continuity throughout a wide area, despite there lived different tribes.[4]
    Modern discovery[edit]

    Trebeništa was discovered by Bulgarian soldiers during World War I Bulgarian occupation of Kingdom of Serbia in 1918. The Bulgarian government sent the archaeologist Karel Škorpil to organize excavations. The artifacts were later researched by the archaeologist Bogdan Filov. Since then, large amounts of graves, five golden masks,[5] and some iron earrings and plates have been found. The excavations continued in 1930-1934, 1953-1954 and 1972 in Yugoslavia. The finds are housed now in the Archaeological Museums in Ohrid, Sofia and Belgrade.
    A number of artifacts excavated in the necropolis are said to be imported from ancient Greece while the rest are of a local Thracian-barbarian origin with Greek influences.[3] Archeological findings include a bronze Krater, a Corinthian helmet, Illyrian type helmets[6] and golden funeral masks reminiscent of Aegean culture.[3]
    A corrupt passage from Greek historian Strabo suggests that the Thraco-Illyrian tribe of Peresadyes and the Illyrian tribe of the Enchelei allied to create a new state in the area of modern Ohrid. If that suggestion is correct then the royal cemetery located in the necropolis is that of the Peresadyes.[1]
    A golden mask from Trebeništa is depicted on the obverse of the 500 Macedonian denar banknote, issued in 1996 and 2003.[7]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebeni%C5%A1ta
    It is usually believed that the so called Enchelei or Sesarethi known as the first Illyrians who created a state were representatives of the Trebeniste Culture. In an upcoming seminar the lead Macedonian archeologist Pasko Kuzman will reveal more of their material culture, in an abstract he represents a bit.

    Representations of Power – an ancient Macedonian Elite?

    Pazko Kuzman

    Enheleian Tibal Aristocracy from Lychnis. Archaic Tomb of Warriors from Gorna Porta in Ohrid

    The discovery of the “Tombs of the Princes” in the Lychnidos area (“Trebeništa” 1918, 1930–1934 and Gorna Porta (Upper Gate) Ohrid, 2002) opened new view points in archaeological science (“Trebeništa” 1918), especially with the appearance of the golden ritual masks, with the same function a thousand years after the Mycenaean ones (Schliemann, 1876) and the archaeological discoveries at Gorna Porta-Ohrid confirming the fact that “Trebeništa” is not an exception in Lychnis. The archaic tomb constructions from the site Zabraneta Ledinka (Forbidden Meadow) at Gorna Porta offer valuable data on the funerary and eschatological beliefs and rituals of the people from the richer social layers who lived in this area.On this occasion, special attention is given to the Tomb of the Warriors (Tomb 1) in which 6 warriors were buried together with their complete military armor. The tomb (dimensions: 5.50 x 4.50 m) was built with a row of larger limestone blocks, and after the cremation burial it was filled with amorphous stones and earth, shaping a low mound-like structure. The pyre was set in the central part of the tomb, and around it, embedded and arranged in a specially brought lake sand, were the military attributes: 6 bronze helmets, 11 greaves, and 15 iron spears, with features suggesting some military subordination or simply warriors who have died in a battle being “the Leader and his comrades.”The tomb represents an initial base for discussions that would contribute to the further shedding of light about the individual “princes’ tombs” of the Trebeništa necropolis that are still insufficiently “illuminated”. This tomb construction is in close proximity to two more Late Archaic tombs: one with a cremated deceased person (Tomb 132) and the other with an inhumed deceased person – a child (Tomb 167) – a parallel occurrence of inhumation and cremation, which allows discussion for many other significant conclusions, compared to the results determined in other Archaic necropolises with similar funerary ritual approaches and similarly rich offerings discovered in the Balkans, more precisely those located along the old prehistoric Candavian road communication, and the future road from Antiquity – the Via Egnatia (along the Trebeništa necropolis near Ohrid and Petilep-Beranci near Bitola, Archontiko near Pella and Sindos near Thessaloniki).Specifically, given all the circumstances, our Tomb of the Warriors, we can say, represents an archaeological geyser of knowledge of the Enheleian (Engeleian) tribal community which inhabited the area of Lychnis at the time.https://pebasite.wordpress.com/peba-2020/representations-of-power-an-ancient-macedonian-elite/
    So, it appears that the elite tombs used cremation on a pyre with beneath having a mound-like tumuli tomb, a similar burial is explained by Homer in his Iliad when he wrongly attributed to Achaeans something which was not true of course since even the historical classical age Achaeans continued the earlier Mycenean tradition of burial customs and cremation on a pyre was not it. It was more of a newer Greek tribes who practiced it (Dorians, Ionians, Aeolians, with other burial customs of course).




    The golden mask bears similarity with the so called Agamemnon mask.




    and the founder of Thracian Odrysian kingdom, golden mask of King Teres.



    Once, during Early Iron Age they extended their power down to Greek Macedonia. The members of so called Trebeniste Culture appear to have wear the Illyrian type of helmet. The Enchelei/Sesarethi although were already part of history during classical time it looks like once upon a time were a very powerful tribe during Late Bronze Age and Early Iron Age transition who were still in memory of the surrounding people.



    (From Pella Macedonia, obviously these helmets, swords, and gold decorations are part of Trebeniste Culture and Enchelei/Sesarethi intruders there).

    So, were they Illyrian, Thracian, or a separate entity, very distantly related to either Illyrians or Thracians?

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    Regular Member Hawk's Avatar
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    Worth to note, there is a connection drawn between Enchelei/Sesarethi, other Illyrian tribe Taulanti and in some cases Dardani are included as well.

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    Interesting read:


    The Peresadyes (Ancient Greek: Περεσάδυες)[1] were a tribe that lived in the ancient region of Illyria and ruled[2] over, or with the Enchelii, or the Sesarethi, and were part of the Taulantii group[3] of tribes. About their classification they had been identified as Illyrian tribe,[1] however, recent research has strengthened the possibility that they were Thracians.[4]


    The name itself is very close to Thracian Berisades[2] (Ancient Greek: Bηρισάδης), suggesting a possible Thracian origin. The Peresadyes also seem to have had contact with Thracians.[5] Some historians have suggested that they weren't a distinct Illyrian tribe, but a part of the Dardani.[6] They gave birth to what later became the Bardylis dynasty, eventually ruling the Dardanii themselves.[7] Strabo recorded what most likely Hecataeus wrote about them, saying that they joined the dynasty of the Enchelii[1] and the term Sesarethii is used as a synonym for Peresyades, but at the same time for Enchelii by Strabo.[8] They ruled the area of modern Trebeništa near lake Ohrid around the 7th century BC,[citation needed] in Macedonia, but declined heavily by 475 BC.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peresadyes
    A History of Macedonia: 550-336 B.C by Nicholas Geoffrey Lemprière Hammond,Guy Thompson Griffith, 1978, ISBN 0198148143, page 93, "The Peresadyes, then, were the rulers of Trebenishte, and Hecataeus wrote of them when they were at the height of their power. It is likely, as we have, seen, that they came from the north; they may have been Dardanii, forerunners of the fourth-century dynasty of Bardylis, and they had contact with the Thracians,..."
    There was indeed Thracians with the name of Peresadyes like the Spartokid king: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paerisades_V

    And Odrysian ruler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berisades

    The Spartokids were descendants from an Odrysian named Spartakos who dethroned the Greek Black Sea Kings and usurped their kingdom.

    [note that this is just speculation, but more like educated speculations, although i quoted Wikipedia each of their sentence is quoted by books and excerpts in it, so this is perfectly fine].

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    In any case, they should test them :)

    These are some comments I found:
    Since a significant chronological gap of eight centuries exists between the end of the Mycenaean civilization and the golden days of Classical Thrace, we could also accept interpretations of some items of Thracian material culture from the Classic and early Hellenistic period as being reminiscent of the Aegean. There is, however, strong evidence which documents the relocation of the Aegean civilization to the north north-east, and the Trebeniste necropolis can thus be viewed as an intermediary link between the Thracian and Mycenaean civilizations.
    https://journals.openedition.org/archeosciences/2203

    In the third section, with the title Trebenishte andRegion (pp. 153-223), two authors covered the pop - ulation and ethnicit of the Trebenita culture, primar - il on the basis of written sources. N. Proeva (pp. 153-157) emphasized the Encheleis / Engelanes as creatorsof the Trebenita culture in the Ohrid-Struga area, thesouthern Dassaretia of Roman times, while P. Delev(pp. 159-165) presented all tribes of the Trebenitaculture, located along the Via Cadmeia: Egnatia, whoare mentioned in the sources. The data from the writ - ten sources is not eas to understand, because theoriginated in different periods and pertain to different periods, and often it is no simple task to discern thetimes and circumstances being described; thus the aresometimes contradictor, all the more so because overtime man of them were distorted to a greater or lesser degree.
    The contribution ends with anoverview of opinions on the ethnicity of the membersof the Trebenita culture, wherein the author does notsupport the Illyrian character of the Encheleis / Enge - lanes, rather he believes that the belonged to the Brygian sphere (both questions were elucidated in detailin my works, omitted from the bibliography)
    https://www.academia.edu/42127116/10...of_Trebenishte

    Going by what I found, a Thracian/Brygian origin is more likely, but nothing definitive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Worth to note, there is a connection drawn between Enchelei/Sesarethi, other Illyrian tribe Taulanti and in some cases Dardani are included as well.
    You do realise that the Macedonian King Cassander in 314 invaded modern Albania
    destroying Glaucias of the Taulantii, and taking as his first target , Apollonia, then Butrint and finally Durres ...............Basically all of Albania

    The Taulantii did not exist from 314BC

    So these Taulanti who originated from Dardania where lost forever

    Cassander then held these lands followed by his successors who lost these albanian lands to the Romans in 3 wars
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-Z282

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Let me quote wikipedia for basic informations:



    It is usually believed that the so called Enchelei or Sesarethi known as the first Illyrians who created a state were representatives of the Trebeniste Culture. In an upcoming seminar the lead Macedonian archeologist Pasko Kuzman will reveal more of their material culture, in an abstract he represents a bit.

    The interesting (but off topic or not completely on topic) thing about Enchelei is that is that there was a "Mycenaean" with a probably related personal name

    See here:
    http://www.peiraeuspubliclibrary.com...mycenaean.html
    Enkhelyawon -- Possibly the name of wanax or king of Pylos

    That could point to either
    1) an Illyrian related element among the (or some) Mycenaeans
    2) a Mycenean related origin of at least some Illyrians or just the Enchelei in particular

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    I suggest search the Lychnidos
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Regular Member Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    You do realise that the Macedonian King Cassander in 314 invaded modern Albania
    destroying Glaucias of the Taulantii, and taking as his first target , Apollonia, then Butrint and finally Durres ...............Basically all of Albania
    The Taulantii did not exist from 314BC
    So these Taulanti who originated from Dardania where lost forever
    Cassander then held these lands followed by his successors who lost these albanian lands to the Romans in 3 wars
    Man, you are the master of missunderstanding and of mixing stuff up.

    I was talking about an Early Iron Age connection. During Bardylis Macedonia was conquered by Dardanians but latter changed on and lost to Philip II. So this was classical age.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    During Bardylis Macedonia was conquered by Dardanians but latter changed on and lost to Philip II. So this was classical age.
    Yes a fascinating culture
    To recap the broad outlines of the region : Illyrian or Dardanian tribes seemed to have temporarily ruled over Macedonia, even at Vergina (e.g. the Iron Age part of the cemetery)
    Do we accept that the Makedones expanded from the Aliacmon basin ?

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