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Thread: Help me trace my ancient ancestry

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    25-10-21
    Posts
    4

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-Z92
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U2e2

    Country: Germany - Rheinland-Pflaz



    Question Help me trace my ancient ancestry

    Hi :)

    I am new member here and I am happy to be here with you.
    I have recently started my dna testing and for now I have autosomal DNA results saying I am 100 % European. (Greek and Balkan, Eastern Europe and French+German)

    However I am interested in my ancient ancestry because that is where my true heritage lies (not in countries where my recent ancestor lived last 200 or 300 years)

    My paternal HG is R-Z92 and maternal HG is U2e2 (according to 23 and me)

    I would be happy if someone more experienced can give me a hint what does it mean and how can i trace my ancient lines better!
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    19-01-18
    Posts
    92

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H5a1a

    Ethnic group
    Germanic
    Country: Germany - Niedersachsen



    There is no such thing as true heritage, because the definition of heritage depends on many factors. You already know your haplogroup and mtDNA, but that doesn't say anything about your ancestry composition.

    For example: Someone can have a Scandinavian haplogroup but be 100% of African admixture, because he had one slave owner in his family line 200 years ago.

    Many states in Europe are only a few hundred years old and the people before that era did not identify with the people who are actually living in their country today.
    For example Germany has a unified identity today but in the past people identified as Prussians or Austrians, before that time there where Romans, Slavs and Germanic identities.

    Many people focus much on family lines, but if your mom and dad came from different populations, there is not much chance that you are genetically close in optical, medical or psychological traits to your distant ancestors. After 12 Generations traces of an ancestor can be genetically completely lost.

    For the calculation of ancestry there are free calculators on the internet. Many can be found on gedmatch.com where you can use your raw data to compare it to living or ancient populations.

    But ancestry components doesn't say how you look or what your medical and psychological traits are, there is a higher chance that they match with your largest ancestry components, but no guarantee.

    There are many facets of ancestry and in the end you have decide for yourself what has the most value for yourself and build an identity on that, if this was your intention.

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    25-10-21
    Posts
    4

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-Z92
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U2e2

    Country: Germany - Rheinland-Pflaz



    Thanks for your elaborate answer.
    You gave me a lot to think about.
    So if I am not not wrong, according to you my HG alone does not mean anything. But If autosomal DNA shows only European admixture (it does according to 23 and me) + every male tested member of my family (also from mothers side) shares R1a variants HG I could identify myself as an European with ancient ancestors that were Indoeuropeans, later some Balto-Slavic or Germanic tribes?
    And still this does not mean anything in a sense that I share physical or psychological characteristics with my ancestors 1000 or 3000 years ago?
    So one can say all my typically European phenotype ist just normal European appearance today contributed by recent admixture (last 12 generations)
    But I still ask myself why do we still look so different here in Europe. You can easily tell apart northern and Southern European for the most part, and European generally from Middle Eastern, Asian, African or Native American.
    Also I am fascinated with Native Australians, you can say they share amazing linage some 40 000 years. Amazing people
    Sure it would be nice to trace personal ancient ancestors and culture, but you say for us in Europe that is impossible? Only for isolated populations like Australians for example?

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    718


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by necromancer View Post
    Thanks for your elaborate answer.
    You gave me a lot to think about.
    So if I am not not wrong, according to you my HG alone does not mean anything. But If autosomal DNA shows only European admixture (it does according to 23 and me) + every male tested member of my family (also from mothers side) shares R1a variants HG I could identify myself as an European with ancient ancestors that were Indoeuropeans, later some Balto-Slavic or Germanic tribes?
    And still this does not mean anything in a sense that I share physical or psychological characteristics with my ancestors 1000 or 3000 years ago?
    So one can say all my typically European phenotype ist just normal European appearance today contributed by recent admixture (last 12 generations)
    But I still ask myself why do we still look so different here in Europe. You can easily tell apart northern and Southern European for the most part, and European generally from Middle Eastern, Asian, African or Native American.
    Also I am fascinated with Native Australians, you can say they share amazing linage some 40 000 years. Amazing people
    Sure it would be nice to trace personal ancient ancestors and culture, but you say for us in Europe that is impossible? Only for isolated populations like Australians for example?
    that has to do with the fact that saying someone is 100% european doesn't make much sense. europeans are a huge mix of quite different ancestries which all migrated into europe from somewhere else at some point. if 23andme uses terms like european then it's because it is a geographical grouping. the continent of europe has been defined that way, if turkey or iran for example were considered part of europe then 23andme might say they are genetically mostly european and there would be no genetic basis to say otherwise.

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    25-10-21
    Posts
    4

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-Z92
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U2e2

    Country: Germany - Rheinland-Pflaz



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Key word is „at one point“

    For example people from Balkans have ancient I Haplogroup in great percentages so population genetics concludes they are the ancestors of oldest Europeans (maybe even more than 35 000 years ago)

    What is also interesting same people are some of the tallest in Europe, followed by Scandinavians who also share ancient I Haplogroup.

    If population genetics And Hg is irrelevant why we see this huge differences. Why are young people from Dalmatia and BiH more than 10 taller than Italians?

    I still think genetics play some important role and we can say if one population have over 50% I Hg they share much more genes and heritage with protoeuropeans and if other population shares less than few percent and huge amount of R1a for example they certanly have more indoeuropean ancestry.

    Sure they are all modern Europeans but differences are evident to me

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    19-01-18
    Posts
    92

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H5a1a

    Ethnic group
    Germanic
    Country: Germany - Niedersachsen



    It is quite possible to sort you to an actual living population in Europe based on admixture. But it depends on the calculator, because they are use different algorithms and population samples.
    For example I get mostly northern German on calculators, but on some I get Netherlands, Icelandic or even Czech on older ones, because they do not contain the genetic makeup of the population I am most similar to. You will always be assorted to the closest population the calculator is using, but that doesn't mean that this is “true” because it can only use the data it has been allocated by the creator.

    And yes its true, all Europeans share a genetic ancestry story. Today's populations are mainly build on events in the late neolithic/early bronze age. Because of that there is a gradual difference in phenotype traits we see in peoples appearance.

    I am of haplogroup I1 and Northern German in admixture, but I look like a mix between Linear Pottery and Yamnaya, I am lacking the typical Scandinavian Hunter traits like blue eyes, blonde and straight hair.
    I build my own calculator for those traits and use it to determine the look of ancient people. But this is very different from a professional calculator with algorithms, mine is only based on the comparison of 80 SNPs(single nucleotide polymorphism) that for example determine if someone has blonde hair or not :https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs3829241
    But in the most cases there is not only one SNP that determines a trait of a person. A complex topic and a technique that is also used by forensic anthropologists to reconstruct the look of a crime victim based on a genetic sample.

    I did also some classical genealogy research. In the last 200 years my ancestors came from 3 different European countries, but this is not strongly reflected in my genetic admixture anymore. I don’t even get high matches from this countries on genetic genealogy sites.

    If you are interested in admixture similarity to ancient populations there are some sites like https://mytrueancestry.com/
    They offer some free testing but many functions must be payed separately.

    At the beginning it is not so easy to get involved with all the tools, here are two video for beginners that can help you to get your first calculator results on gedmatch.com :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFz6c1rEJGQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOjpdrOh2BI

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    25-10-21
    Posts
    4

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-Z92
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U2e2

    Country: Germany - Rheinland-Pflaz



    Thanks Doggerland!

    Your story is also an interesting one!

    According to your advice I have uploaded my data to GED Match and My true Ancestry. I have also uploaded my data MyHeritage.
    Both K13 and K15 put me mostly in North Atlantic/North Sea and Baltic Admixture. I also have some West Mediterranean.

    MyHeritage showed me much more Baltic Admixture (20%)
    My true ancestry showed Danish Vikings and Early Slavs.

    I am tall, strong build with blonde Beard but brown hair and brown eyes. I am also very well
    adapted to cold, but over 25 Degrees in summer i am feeling very lethargic.

    I do not live in the North now but every time I visit i fell like Home.
    My friends usually hate it, find it to dark and cold, but for me it feels like heaven.

    So I was thinking maybe there is some genetic component that draws me there, maybe it is just
    a coincidence

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