Thread: E-V13 Frequency Maps and Data

E-V13 in Apulia and Abruzzo was likely increased by Western Balkanites fleeing Slavs and Turks during and after the Middle Ages.

Yes, definitely. The question is how much is from earlier, especially Greek and Thracian migrants, and even from Central Europeans-Northern Italians.
Interestingly, some Southern clusters might be independent or Southern centered, whereas others might point to a North to South movement also.
To be sure we need way more data.
 
Yes, definitely. The question is how much is from earlier, especially Greek and Thracian migrants, and even from Central Europeans-Northern Italians.
Interestingly, some Southern clusters might be independent or Southern centered, whereas others might point to a North to South movement also.
To be sure we need way more data.

In Iberia E-V13 seem to be mostly VisiGothic. It does not extend 3% in any province.
Some real Germanic lines (as I1) were spread with post antiquity European movement.
 
E-V13 in Apulia and Abruzzo was likely increased by Western Balkanites fleeing Slavs and Turks during and after the Middle Ages.

And why only specific subclades, especially in Sicily, where some old subclades are there. You seem to be quite obsessed with reducing percentages of E-V13 further down in Balkans. I know why you are doing so, your ulterior motives. :wink:
 
And why only specific subclades, especially in Sicily, where some old subclades are there. You seem to be quite obsessed with reducing percentages of E-V13 further down in Balkans. I know why you are doing so, your ulterior motives. :wink:

What subclades? What are you even talking about? I have made a post that maybe E-V13 could be partly Italic given how spread it is in Italy, unlike in Iberia. Even though J2b has popped out but not E-V13 which make it extremely confusing.

Which old subclade are you even talking about? The Campanian study has over 100 samples, we will see if it is there.
I know that Goths did not bring all or even most of E-V13 in Italy, they were not numerous enough to do that.
 
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In Iberia E-V13 seem to be mostly VisiGothic. It does not extend 3% in any province.
Some real Germanic lines (as I1) were spread with post antiquity European movement.

I was wrong it pushes over 3% in some regions.
 
What subclades? What are you even talking about? I have made a post that maybe E-V13 could be partly Italic given how spread it is in Italy, unlike in Iberia. Even though J2b has popped out but not E-V13 which make it extremely confusing.

Which old subclade are you even talking about? The Campanian study has over 100 samples, we will see if it is there.
I know that Goths did not brought all or even most of E-V13 in Italy, they were not numerous enough to do that.

We knew it long time ago it had nothing to do with Italics btw. Many of the subclades in Sicily are not even Z5017/Z5018, so that makes it hard to believe they are Middle Ages there.
 
[FONT=&quot]I did not know about this:
Neolithic Levant confirmed a high incidence of haplogroup E1b1b in that region. However, out of 69 [/FONT]
Y-DNA samples tested from Neolithic Europe[FONT=&quot], only two belonged to that haplogroup: one E-M78 from the Sopot culture in Hungary (5000-4800 BCE), another E-M78 (c. 5000 BCE), possibly E-V13, from north-east Spain, and a E-L618 from Zemunica cave near Split in Croatia from 5500 BCE ([/FONT]Fernandes et al., 2016[FONT=&quot]). Whether these E-M78 samples came with Neolithic farmers from the Near East or were already present among Mesolithic Europeans is unclear at present. But in any case E-V13 was definitely not the major Neolithic European lineage it was once alleged to be.[/FONT]
 
We knew it long time ago it had nothing to do with Italics btw. Many of the subclades in Sicily are not even Z5017/Z5018, so that makes it hard to believe they are Middle Ages there.
Principe told me that one big clade of E-V13 in Sicily is related to Northern Italy.
 
My belief is Balkan, one Visigoth was Serbian-like if I remember it well.

Even if true you don't know how it came up, because there were many "Serbian-like" people around or could come up by different admixtures.

Principe told me that one big clade of E-V13 in Sicily is related to Northern Italy.

I posted this in another thread, the question is also in which direction the relationship is going. The TMRCA of E-V13 in Italy and one big cluster centered in Southern Italy, but with participants in Northern Italy is also interesting, like it was presented in a major study on Italian yDNA variation. The spread is MBA-EIA for the most part. At the same time we have the appearance of hoards and settlements with flame shaped, casted spearheads from G?va along the Danube and coast, over the Alpine region, into Northern Italy.

Compare:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...kan-case/page9?p=634651&viewfull=1#post634651

And the Italian study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3666984/

In this study, the main haplogroup with a similar age, in part, though some main clusters are older, is R-U152. I think that Ligurians and Lepontic Celts/Alpine spread at a similar time frame from the LBA-EIA.
 
Even if true you don't know how it came up, because there were many "Serbian-like" people around or could come up by different admixtures.



I posted this in another thread, the question is also in which direction the relationship is going. The TMRCA of E-V13 in Italy and one big cluster centered in Southern Italy, but with participants in Northern Italy is also interesting, like it was presented in a major study on Italian yDNA variation. The spread is MBA-EIA for the most part. At the same time we have the appearance of hoards and settlements with flame shaped, casted spearheads from G�va along the Danube and coast, over the Alpine region, into Northern Italy.

Compare:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...kan-case/page9?p=634651&viewfull=1#post634651

And the Italian study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3666984/

In this study, the main haplogroup with a similar age, in part, though some main clusters are older, is R-U152. I think that Ligurians and Lepontic Celts/Alpine spread at a similar time frame from the LBA-EIA.

Why do you think Ligures had it besides the fact the region of Liguria has high E-V13?
 
Why do you think Ligures had it besides the fact the region of Liguria has high E-V13?


The main factor is that modern Ligurians have a high frequency of E-V13 obviously, and their clades too point to a rather Central European connection, especially if assuming that some of the Cagliari samples come from that source too, which is very likely, because of the Ligurian/Genuese settlers.
The other factor is that all the people around, but the very core of Ligurian settlement, seem to have a lower frequency. It gets higher in some parts of Lombardy and Switzerland too, but there again it looks like a remnant of Iron Age movements. The pattern could be explained in other ways too, but its difficult. The Ligurians are one of the main groups from the Hallstatt period which survived the La Tene Celtic expansion, that its exactly in their territory and in other territories of earlier Iron Age survival the frequency rises in Northern Italy (Ligurians, Veneti, Lepontic possibly) is rather not a coincidence.
The Germanics and provincial Romans brought E-V13 too, but I doubt that explains the regional concentration. Rather that spread more E-V13 in other parts of Italy and just increased it too.
 
The main factor is that modern Ligurians have a high frequency of E-V13 obviously, and their clades too point to a rather Central European connection, especially if assuming that some of the Cagliari samples come from that source too, which is very likely, because of the Ligurian/Genuese settlers.
The other factor is that all the people around, but the very core of Ligurian settlement, seem to have a lower frequency. It gets higher in some parts of Lombardy and Switzerland too, but there again it looks like a remnant of Iron Age movements. The pattern could be explained in other ways too, but its difficult. The Ligurians are one of the main groups from the Hallstatt period which survived the La Tene Celtic expansion, that its exactly in their territory and in other territories of earlier Iron Age survival the frequency rises in Northern Italy (Ligurians, Veneti, Lepontic possibly) is rather not a coincidence.
The Germanics and provincial Romans brought E-V13 too, but I doubt that explains the regional concentration. Rather that spread more E-V13 in other parts of Italy and just increased it too.
I think Ligures and Venetic people are a good shot.
What about Messapians?

E-V13 in Italy is extremely confusing. If Ancient Greek colonists of Italy had this haplogroup it would clear many things.
 
I think Ligures and Venetic people are a good shot.
What about Messapians?

E-V13 in Italy is extremely confusing. If Ancient Greek colonists of Italy had this haplogroup it would clear many things.

I think Greeks had it in any case, if not the earliest, then the later ones, because of Thracian gene flow. In later Hellenistic and Roman times, many soldiers, workers, slaves and settlers too came from the Daco-Thracian and mixed Illyrians world, with very late Greeks, Balkan people and especially Albanians on top in the South. In the North, I think it was some flow from the South, from Greek-Imperial Roman contacts also, but most coming from LBA-EIA spreads, especially from Eastern Hallstatt groups. There can be little doubt about that, because of the strong presence in some Hallstatt centres, and this goes up to Southern Germany and Austria. If one would subtract the more recent Germanic and Slavic patrilineages, the frequency of E-V13 would be in all those regions fairly high, only topped by Bell Beaker-Tumulus Culture R1b, especially R-U152. There might have been also tribal differences between the various Hallstatt provinces and later Alpine Celtic tribes of significance.
 
I think Greeks had it in any case, if not the earliest, then the later ones, because of Thracian gene flow. In later Hellenistic and Roman times, many soldiers, workers, slaves and settlers too came from the Daco-Thracian and mixed Illyrians world, with very late Greeks, Balkan people and especially Albanians on top in the South. In the North, I think it was some flow from the South, from Greek-Imperial Roman contacts also, but most coming from LBA-EIA spreads, especially from Eastern Hallstatt groups. There can be little doubt about that, because of the strong presence in some Hallstatt centres, and this goes up to Southern Germany and Austria. If one would subtract the more recent Germanic and Slavic patrilineages, the frequency of E-V13 would be in all those regions fairly high, only topped by Bell Beaker-Tumulus Culture R1b, especially R-U152. There might have been also tribal differences between the various Hallstatt provinces and later Alpine Celtic tribes of significance.

Ancient Macedonians could've absorved proto-Thracian tribes in early times before the Hellenistic period who were E-V13. Classical Peloponnese and Aegean Islands are a tough one
 
Ancient Macedonians could've absorved proto-Thracian tribes in early times before the Hellenistic period who were E-V13. Classical Peloponnese and Aegean Islands are a tough one

There was in the LBA an influx of cremating groups related to Channelled Ware people. In some areas they seem to have retreated though, in others being absorbed, but they influenced Greeks, especially the Northern/Dorian Greeks. How big their paternal impact was and how much of it was E-V13 is even hard to guess, because the continuity in the region wasn't particularly strong. We definitely need a lot of ancient DNA and way more Greek testers to assess this. But going by some of the subclades Greeks have, which are not obviously from Albanians, they might be related to the Carpathian groups, coming from an early expansion. But Vlachs are as tough as the Greeks without more sampling. Its definitely not all Albanians in Greeks, if talking about E-V13, but how much of it is Vlach-Slav and how much is old Greek and Thracians, we'll see.
 
I opened up a thread on Anthrogenica some days ago and want to share my own research and the contributions made there here as well - the uploaded map is the newest version I made: View attachment 12998
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25094-E-V13-Frequency-Maps-and-Data

Unfortunately the quality being quite reduced in the upload process. Here is a higher quality link: https://ibb.co/FnVdPwv


Since I saw nice maps for other haplogroups, I wanted to produce a more updated map for E-V13. Maciamo or others surely can do better, but their current maps being outdated or lack data on the regional level which I consider to be important.
If there is only E1b1b available, I did estimate E-V13 about 60-70 % (~ 65 %) for more Northern countries, based on the Austrian proportions, were subclades were available and if there are clear macro-regional trends, I fill from the spots available until more data comes in. Its just sketchy in some parts, any corrections or new data being welcomed. Please not that this is just to give a general impression. For a lot of regions not detailed subclades are known, so it has to rely on estimates for E-V13 or different studies yielded conflicting results.
Another issue is that some subdivisions on this map are not ideal. Like I know that the Bavarian average is misleading, because Franconia, Munich and Swabia has by far more E-V13 than the typical Bavarian core of the rural countryside. East Tyrol has much less E-V13 than Northern Tyrol and so on.
Its just to give a general impression with updated and more region specific data, as far as I could gather it. Countries without any differentation by region being the result of no available regional data at hands. This is especially true for France, Portugal, England, Belgium, Netherlands etc.

Please no bashing, if you know better or have better data to share, just contribute!

Also, if anybody has a better map down to the provincial level, just share. I just didn't find one to this point.



In case I can't edit this posting any more, any newer update will be posted on the following pages.

Data gathered from the following threads and studies:

Austria:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21093-Austrian-Y-DNA-haplogroups

Switzerland:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...rigin-of-E-V13&p=809082&viewfull=1#post809082

Czechia and Slovakia:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20915-Czech-Population-Genetics-and-Regional-Differences

Slovenia:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...rigin-of-E-V13&p=809097&viewfull=1#post809097
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...rigin-of-E-V13&p=809193&viewfull=1#post809193

Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Albania:
https://www.poreklo.rs/2019/06/12/y-dna-haplogroups-of-ethnic-serbs/

North Italian local samples, Frisians and English:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...rigin-of-E-V13&p=809215&viewfull=1#post809215

Local German and Polish samples:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...alysis/link/0fcfd51235b36478b9000000/download

Poland:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2020.567309/full

Italy:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...of-E1b1b-subclades-in-Italy-(Boattini-et-al-)

Greek provinces, Western Anatolian Greeks, Provence:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...eek_colonization_of_the_western_Mediterranean

Greeks:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26644-Y-DNA-haplogroups-of-Greeks-by-region-of-origin

Greeks and Turkish Cypriots:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0179474#pone.0179474.s013

Turkey:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?24591-The-genetic-structure-of-Turkey
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...rigin-of-E-V13&p=795055&viewfull=1#post795055

Albanians:
https://rrenjet.com/statistikat/

Romania and Moldova:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...stribution-in-Romania-and-Republic-of-Moldova

Russia:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25079-Russians-E-V13&p=811558#post811558

Bulgaria:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0056779

Data on various Slavic populations, Russians, Belorussians, Ukrainians etc. (Table K in S1 File):
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820

Sweden:
https://www.nature.com/articles/5201651/tables/1

France:
https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...7279a8ad6b2f07f05a329113e3a22f92b5a7/figure/3

Basic informations also from:
https://www.nevgen.org/Europe_haplogroups_overview.html

Interesting work. Thank you
 
As we discussed on another thread, I believe your data for Italy comes from one paper, Boattini et al, and furthermore, it's a paper with very few samples.

If that's the case, then the picture may look quite different in actuality.
 
Southern Italy has faced dramatic changes after 200BC under the Roman Empire. The same is true for Peloponnese, once with Anatolians during the Hellenistic and Imperial Era period then with the Slavs in the early Medieval Times and then with the Albanians in Late Middle Ages.

"At the end of the conflict between the triumvirs and Sextus Pompey, Sicily was devastated: cities and countryside had been damaged by warfare and a lot of land remained uncultivated because the proprietors were dead or had fled, or their land had been confiscated by Octavian as punishment. A portion of Sicily remained imperial property, while large areas, probably in the Plain of Catania, were given to Agrippa. When he died, the majority of his property passed to Augustus and it is possible that other Sicilian land came into Augustus' possession in a similar way. Other farmland, especially on the eastern and northern coasts, was given to Italian veterans who had served in Augustus' legions.[54]

Augustus carried out an administrative reorganisation of the empire as a whole and of the province of Sicily in particular. A number of coloniae – cities composed of veterans – were established by Augustus on Sicily, but the exact chronology is unclear. We know for certain that the first measures were taken in 36 BC, when Tauromenium was made into a colonia.[55] Subsequently, Augustus visited Sicily in 22 or 21 BC, the first stop on a journey through the empire, and other reforms were carried out. At the end of the process, six Sicilian cities had become coloniae: Syracuse, Tauromenium, Panormus, Catania, Tyndaris, and Thermae Himerenses. The influx of population represented by these foundations may have been intended to compensate for a demographic slump resulting from the war with Sextus Pompey, or from Augustus' excoriation of the island after his victory.[56] It is not clear what happened to the pre-existing Greek inhabitants of these cities: this fact is interesting because normally the citizens of coloniae had Roman citizenship and could therefore participate in the highest levels of the Roman state. It may be that these privileges were restricted to the aristocracy.[57] In any case, the influx of Italian veterans played a decisive role in the diffusion of Latin language in Sicily.[55]
Messina, Lipara, and perhaps Lilybaeum, Agregentum, and Halaesa were made into municipia – a status significantly lower than that of colonia. No veterans were settled in these settlements; they were simply compensated for their loyalty by Augustus.[57]
Centuripa, Notum, and Segesta were converted into "Latin" cities, while the remaining cities retained the same status that they had had since the creation of the province in the third century BC – foreign communities under the control of Rome."[57]

I honestly don't think E-V13 was a major lines among the Greek colonists of Southern Italy while it maybe existed among them, let's see what time will tell us.
 

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