Thread: E-V13 Frequency Maps and Data

[Hawk]

No kid, you're chasing your tail. Why is Berisha not R1a, N1c, Q1e, etc....? Why it happened to be a E-V13 and not something else?
Because they were Albanian.

He is somewhat obsessed with Berisha tribe, but before the Ottoman Empire this clan/family was far more powerful than after, its only the Berisha clan who had balls to fight Mahmud Pashe Begolli and eventually kill him at a heavy cost, the beylerbeyler of Balkans (i read from people that he might have been himself a Berish, or Bardh). It's lesser known related Sopi clan (they thought they were related with Thaqi and Bytyqi which resulted not truth), who became a major line in Nish, Toplic and Vranje had as much as boom as Berisha if not greater than. This particular clan has traditions of greatly prospering from Ottoman militantism not the Berishas who suffered and were forced to migrate/split into mainly highlands.

And no, the Berisha doesn't constitute the majority of E-V13 in Kosove, both Berisha-Sop consitute a good deal, but E-V13 L241, E-V13 FGC11450 has diversity as well and presence.

As for J2b2-L283 in Kosove, it's overhelmly a recent founder effect from Krasniqi and Gashi tribe. Though Hoti, Kastrati and Korbi have a good deal, but nowhere near the amount of Krasniqi and Gashi.

[kingjohn]

i gave theytree the link to I20185 Kapitan Andreevo bam file
and they uploaded it that was fast

https://www.theytree.com/tree/E-BY3880

https://www.theytree.com/sample/40c9...dd37e9503.html



p.s
i care for e-v13 even though i am in extremely different e1b1b1 branch
in the end of the day they are still e1b1b1

[Riverman]

i gave theytree the link to I20185 Kapitan Andreevo bam file
and they uploaded it that was fast

https://www.theytree.com/tree/E-BY3880

https://www.theytree.com/sample/40c9...dd37e9503.html



p.s
i care for e-v13 even though i am in extremely different e1b1b1 branch
in the end of the day they are still e1b1b1

They are quick, which is a big plus! The Sogdian/Iranian from Kazakhstan is there as well.

[mount123]

And no, the Berisha doesn't constitute the majority of E-V13 in Kosove, both Berisha-Sop consitute a good deal, but E-V13 L241, E-V13 FGC11450 has diversity as well and presence.

As for J2b2-L283 in Kosove, it's overhelmly a recent founder effect from Krasniqi and Gashi tribe. Though Hoti, Kastrati and Korbi have a good deal, but nowhere near the amount of Krasniqi and Gashi.

Great to see someone with actual knowledge of Albanian tribes (also not blending out the Hoti, Kastrati and Korbi). Albeit, I would make a clear difference in the Gashi since a great part of them in Kosovo are Bardhaj and Shipshan and according to genetic testing mostly E1b-V13. It is rather the Gasht e Gurit and even here only the Luzha/Botusha that are J2b-L283. They are evenly split between Albanians from Kosovo and Albania.

Should be interesting how E1b-V13>L241+ and >FGC11450+ will be distributed during IA.

[Hawk]

Great to see someone with actual knowledge of Albanian tribes (also not blending out the Hoti, Kastrati and Korbi). Albeit, I would make a clear difference in the Gashi since a great part of them in Kosovo are Bardhaj and Shipshan and according to genetic testing mostly E1b-V13. It is rather the Gasht e Gurit and even here only the Luzha/Botusha that are J2b-L283. They are evenly split between Albanians from Kosovo and Albania.

Should be interesting how E1b-V13>L241+ and >FGC11450+ will be distributed during IA.

My point was that while Berisha-Sopi indeed constitutes a good number, it's ratio is comparable to J2b2-L283 Gash/Krasniq. There are other E-V13 and J2b2-L283 sources respectively.

And yes, unlike Krasniqi the Gash seems to be a bit diverse, but the one in Kosove are mostly J2b2-L283. I didn't saw many Bardhaj, but it looks in Deqan/Dukagjin area the Bardhi/Shipshan might be present among Gash, but in Drenic a lot of them are J2b2-L283 and other areas.

[PaleoRevenge]

He is somewhat obsessed with Berisha tribe, but before the Ottoman Empire this clan/family was far more powerful than after, its only the Berisha clan who had balls to fight Mahmud Pashe Begolli and eventually kill him at a heavy cost, the beylerbeyler of Balkans (i read from people that he might have been himself a Berish, or Bardh). It's lesser known related Sopi clan (they thought they were related with Thaqi and Bytyqi which resulted not truth), who became a major line in Nish, Toplic and Vranje had as much as boom as Berisha if not greater than. This particular clan has traditions of greatly prospering from Ottoman militantism not the Berishas who suffered and were forced to migrate/split into mainly highlands.

And no, the Berisha doesn't constitute the majority of E-V13 in Kosove, both Berisha-Sop consitute a good deal, but E-V13 L241, E-V13 FGC11450 has diversity as well and presence.

As for J2b2-L283 in Kosove, it's overhelmly a recent founder effect from Krasniqi and Gashi tribe. Though Hoti, Kastrati and Korbi have a good deal, but nowhere near the amount of Krasniqi and Gashi.

I know Hawk, J2b benefited as well, it's a mute argument. He just likes to pick and chose while ignoring the bigger picture.

[mount123]

My point was that while Berisha-Sopi indeed constitutes a good number, it's ratio is comparable to J2b2-L283 Gash/Krasniq. There are other E-V13 and J2b2-L283 sources respectively.

And yes, unlike Krasniqi the Gash seems to be a bit diverse, but the one in Kosove are mostly J2b2-L283. I didn't saw many Bardhaj, but it looks in Deqan/Dukagjin area the Bardhi/Shipshan might be present among Gash, but in Drenic a lot of them are J2b2-L283 and other areas.

Well, I get your point and certainly agree since that is what the data suggests.

In regards to Gashi they indeed are diverse and I think with such a group more sampling is needed. I know quite a few Muhaxherë descendants here and a good part claims to be Bardhaj and results as this for instance:

Dedinca

Gash-Bardhë

Kurshumli

Toplicë

Serbi

E1b-V13>Z5018>L241>PH2180

could hint at a higher presence of PH2180 in KS. Klina and the surroundings should also yield more PH2180.

[Hawk]

Well, I get your point and certainly agree since that is what the data suggests.

In regards to Gashi they indeed are diverse and I think with such a group more sampling is needed. I know quite a few Muhaxherë descendants here and a good part claims to be Bardhaj and results as this for instance:

Dedinca

Gash-Bardhë

Kurshumli

Toplicë

Serbi

E1b-V13>Z5018>L241>PH2180

could hint at a higher presence of PH2180 in KS. Klina and the surroundings should also yield more PH2180.

I think i have read from some Serb records that in Nish, Toplic, Vranje they had the most trouble with Gash and Sop over there, they considered these two tribes as most anti-Serb. But, didn't know the Gash-Bardhaj skipped Kosove and went to Nish, Toplic and surroundings. That's new to me. I thought the Gash in Nish and surroundings they should be same as Luzha/Botusha.

[kingjohn]

I asked theytree to upload 2 more bulgarians
I see they uploaded them

https://www.theytree.com/sample/0c8b...52dfb2ebe.html

https://www.theytree.com/sample/27fa...2102a44b0.html

[Riverman]

Interesting subclade:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY14160/

Its more diverse and widespread on FTDNA, a position in an already more South Eastern (there are a couple) or unknown subclade would make sense if there would be a better coverage

[kingjohn]

Interesting subclade:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY14160/
Its more diverse and widespread on FTDNA, a position in an already more South Eastern (there are a couple) or unknown subclade would make sense if there would be a better coverage

i gave today theytree site link to the bam file of
I14465 Slovakia 650-500bc e-v13
i see they uploaded it to there ytree
https://www.theytree.com/sample/5a5c...1ef15cb4c.html

P.s
By the way 2 of the e-v13 himerans 480 bc were also uploaded by them after i gave them link to there bam:

https://www.theytree.com/sample/341c...20d9b4593.html

https://www.theytree.com/sample/8426...5df15d5cc.html

[kingjohn]

ok y tree uploaded this dude after i gave him his link bam file

BAS025 La Bastida Southeast spain bronze age 2000-1750 bc - E-L618> CTS10912
( sitting on branch parallel to e-v13)

https://www.theytree.com/sample/497a...bd2a75ef8.html

https://www.theytree.com/tree/E-CTS10912

The site:
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Bastida_de_Totana


p.s
now fox i am looking for the chalcolithic e-m78 individual from ukraine
if i will find it i will ask them to upload him
he might not be e-v13 too early but still he is important could be e-L618 if the quality of his sample
is good enough

[Riverman]

ok y tree uploaded this dude after i gave him his link bam file

BAS025 La Bastida Southeast spain bronze age 2000-1750 bc - E-L618> CTS10912
( sitting on branch parallel to e-v13)

https://www.theytree.com/sample/497a...bd2a75ef8.html

https://www.theytree.com/tree/E-CTS10912

The site:
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Bastida_de_Totana


p.s
now fox i am looking for the chalcolithic e-m78 individual from ukraine
if i will find it i will ask them to upload him
he might not be e-v13 too early but still he is important could be e-L618 if the quality of his sample
is good enough

The Lengyel and Tripolye-Cucuteni samples are definitely the most interesting because they might have been the source from which E-V13 survived into the Bronze Age.

[kingjohn]

The Lengyel and Tripolye-Cucuteni samples are definitely the most interesting because they might have been the source from which E-V13 survived into the Bronze Age.

There you go
the ukranian tripillya from verteba cave
I3151 only reach e-m78 level
https://www.theytree.com/sample/e78c...05f163cca.html
If he was in better coverage could end in E-L618
Still cool

The lengyel late neolithic
I1900
Is e-L618
https://www.theytree.com/sample/4f93...37eea4224.html

P.s
I didn't found sopot individual bam file

[Riverman]

There you go
the ukranian tripillya from verteba cave
I3151 only reach e-m78 level
https://www.theytree.com/sample/e78c...05f163cca.html
If he was in better coverage could end in E-L618
Still cool
The lengyel late neolithic
I1900
Is e-L618
https://www.theytree.com/sample/4f93...37eea4224.html
P.s
I didn't found sopot individual bam file

Thank you, great job.

[kingjohn]

Thank you, great job.

The last himera e-v13 dude I17872 ( this is the one with
The suposed caucasus autosomal profile)
https://www.theytree.com/sample/3ad7...a484595ad.html

[Riverman]

The last himera e-v13 dude I17872 ( this is the one with
The suposed caucasus autosomal profile)
https://www.theytree.com/sample/3ad7...a484595ad.html

At least its an additional confirmation! Thanks again!

[kingjohn]

Its about time for some dna papers
With all due respect for theytree site
the name of this thread is:
e-v13 frequency map
So here we go
New research on szekely
Found 6.52% 6/92 e-m78

Source:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...515481v1?rss=1


P.s
All the 6 e-m78 cases are snp confirmed
And the haplotypes
Were predicted in the nevgen predictor used
In the paper are under e-v13 branch

---

[Riverman]

Its about time for some dna papers
With all due respect for theytree site
the name of this thread is:
e-v13 frequency map
So here we go
New research on szekely
Found 6.52% 6/92 e-m78
Source:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...515481v1?rss=1
P.s
All the 6 e-m78 cases are snp confirmed
And the haplotypes
Were predicted in the nevgen predictor used
In the paper are under e-v13 branch

---

I saw that as well. They also quoted other results in the paper:

The samples are from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odorhei_County

There paper quotes other studies done on Eastern Hungarians in the Tisza zone, the hotspot for old Thracian and E-V13 finds in the past, from Bodrogköz, as well as Szekely from close by to the current samples (Székelyudvarhely) and another site, Csíkszereda (= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miercurea_Ciuc)


Figure 6 from page 17:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...481v1.full.pdf

The conqueror ancient DNA is obviously not from the papers which focuses more on the Eastern/South Eastern part of Hungary.

[kingjohn]

e-v13 was found in 6.6% in Rétköz (hungary)
and 14.58% in Váh valley ( slovakia)

according to this paper:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2022.977517/full

[Riverman]

Especially the ratio of E-V13 vs. J2b is noteworthy. Very interesting, thanks. I was waiting for that paper, but kind of overlooked it when the data came finally out.

[kingjohn]

i know it is old still good paper
7.8% e-v13 total in italy :

The lowest values for haplogroup diversity (h) are observed in Sardinia, while the Italian peninsula is characterized by a negative correlation between haplogroup diversity and latitude, resulting in a south-north decreasing pattern of variation (Spearman's rho  = −0.463, p-value  = 0.036). The most frequent haplogroups in Italy are R-U152* (12.1%), G-P15 (11.1%), E-V13 (7.8%) and J-M410* (7.6%). They are followed by three R1b-lineages (R-M269*, R-P312* and R-L2*), whose frequencies ranged from 6.9% to 5.7%; and finally from I-M26, which embraced more than the 4% of total variability. On the whole these haplogroups encompass ∼62% of Y-chromosomes lineages, while the remaining 38 haplogroups show frequencies lower or equal to 3.3%. Haplogroups distribution in the considered eight sampling areas is detailed in Table S1.


source:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...e.0065441.s012

[Riverman]

I, II and VI are much above average. So the areas of both strong non-Italic and strong-post Roman influx:
- Liguria-Genua (Ligurians, Hallstatt?)
- Venetia (Venetic, Eastern Urnfield influences)
- Southern Italy (Greeks, Illyrians, Albanians)

IV (Etruscan-Italic, multicultural Roman zone) and VIII (Sardinia, but especially around Cagliari the local people have a very high diversity E-V13 presence, presumably from Liguria-Genua) are the lowest.

Its funny that Sardinia has overall a very low E-V13 frequency, but because of the really big sample taken, especially from Cagliari, we have a solid proven diversity and better knowledge of E-V13 diversity in Northern Italy through it. Interestingly, the Sardinian branches are largely old and independent, with the closest (still distant) related branches coming especially from the British Isles (England and Ireland primarily) and Germany-France, which would suggest a rather Hallstatt-La Tene connection.

I checked on FTDNA for Sardinian flags:
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-Z5017/tree
and
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-Z5018/tree

From E-Z5018:
E-Z21287
E-FTB70721
E-Z21366
E-S2972
E-Z42904

From E-Z5017:
E-BY4280
E-FT79167
E-Z16988
E-Z21328
E-PF6777

Practically no close Balkan connections, but a lot in Germany and the British Isles, but distant ones, very little or nothing after the Pre-Roman Iron Age.

If we would have such big samples from the region of Genua, the diversity would increase many times I guess. Definitely no recent bottlenecked founder effects.

[kingjohn]

this is also old but good paper :the 11.4% e-v13 in bergamo plain is interesting





from the pdf :
Y-chromosome haplogroups in Italian populations A total of 53 distinct lineages were identified; their frequency distributions in the examined Italian populations are reported in Supplementary Table S6 and illustrated according to their phylogenetic relationships in Figure 2.Haplogroup R is the most frequent (50.1%) with its two main branches, R1a (4.7%) and R1b (45.3%), the latter mainly accounted for by R1b-U152 (49.5% of the total R1b); R2 was not observed. Next is haplogroup J (19.2%), mostly observed as J2 (17.6%), and third is haplogroup E, as E1b (14.6%),mostly represented by its ‘Balkan’ sub-clade E1b-V13. The other main haplogroups show frequencies lower than 10%:haplogroup G (8.4%) and haplogroup I (4.8%).
In Italy, E-V13 shows coalescent age and variance values similar to the Northern Balkan ones. These data are in agreement with a first migration of E1b-V13 from Anatolia towards the Southern Balkans, where it underwent a demographic expansion, followed by a later spread towards Southern Italy (Battaglia et al., 2009). The relatively recent expansion times in the Balkans are consistent with the Balkan Bronze Age, a period that saw strong demographic changes as demonstrated by archaeological records (Childe, 2013; Kristiansen, 2000), and could therefore,represent a possible time frame for the population movement into the South of Italy.E1b-V13 is also observed in Volterra and the Northern Italian groups, mainly in the most accessible areas (Boattiniet al., 2013). This observation supports a Balkan influence in Northern Italian populations as well, most likely through an Adriatic route and along the Po Valley and, to a lesser extent in lateral, more isolated, mountainous valleys.


source:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...me_perspective

[torzio]

this is also old but good paper :the 11.4% e-v13 in bergamo plain is interesting





from the pdf :
Y-chromosome haplogroups in Italian populations A total of 53 distinct lineages were identified; their frequency distributions in the examined Italian populations are reported in Supplementary Table S6 and illustrated according to their phylogenetic relationships in Figure 2.Haplogroup R is the most frequent (50.1%) with its two main branches, R1a (4.7%) and R1b (45.3%), the latter mainly accounted for by R1b-U152 (49.5% of the total R1b); R2 was not observed. Next is haplogroup J (19.2%), mostly observed as J2 (17.6%), and third is haplogroup E, as E1b (14.6%),mostly represented by its ‘Balkan’ sub-clade E1b-V13. The other main haplogroups show frequencies lower than 10%:haplogroup G (8.4%) and haplogroup I (4.8%).
In Italy, E-V13 shows coalescent age and variance values similar to the Northern Balkan ones. These data are in agreement with a first migration of E1b-V13 from Anatolia towards the Southern Balkans, where it underwent a demographic expansion, followed by a later spread towards Southern Italy (Battaglia et al., 2009). The relatively recent expansion times in the Balkans are consistent with the Balkan Bronze Age, a period that saw strong demographic changes as demonstrated by archaeological records (Childe, 2013; Kristiansen, 2000), and could therefore,represent a possible time frame for the population movement into the South of Italy.E1b-V13 is also observed in Volterra and the Northern Italian groups, mainly in the most accessible areas (Boattiniet al., 2013). This observation supports a Balkan influence in Northern Italian populations as well, most likely through an Adriatic route and along the Po Valley and, to a lesser extent in lateral, more isolated, mountainous valleys.


source:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...me_perspective

it was always a weird study ..............they left out all the Adriatic side Italians except for the Salento peninsula ( heel of italy )