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Thread: Kurdish EV13 - yseq

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    Kurdish EV13 - yseq

    Hi, I am gradually getting my Yseq EV13 panel. So far positive for z17264 and awaiting PH1173. I am from Southern ‘Iraqi’ Kurdistan. Not sure if the Z17264 indicates Greek - post Alexander or could be Iranic (Thracian origin and mediated by the Cimmerians who invaded Kurdistan in 7thC BC). The more you look into the history the more the possible routes!

    Wondering what others thought, will update with terminal subclade when available.

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    Hi Cyaxeres,
    Based on the Armenian from the YFull my assumption would be that Z17264 entered Middle East before the Classical Greek period, meaning before 500 BC: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY4289*/

    But this is of course not definitive. Maybe we can wait for your subclade result and discuus more when it is available.

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    Thanks, yes I’ll post when the terminal subclade is confirmed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyaxeres View Post
    Hi, I am gradually getting my Yseq EV13 panel. So far positive for z17264 and awaiting PH1173. I am from Southern ‘Iraqi’ Kurdistan. Not sure if the Z17264 indicates Greek - post Alexander or could be Iranic (Thracian origin and mediated by the Cimmerians who invaded Kurdistan in 7thC BC). The more you look into the history the more the possible routes!

    Wondering what others thought, will update with terminal subclade when available.
    Hello Cyaxeres,
    E-V13 is actually a mysterious haplogroup, the only mostly "European" branch of "E" haplogroup,(but also found among Turks, Tatars, Persians, Kurds, Arabs, Armenians, North Africans,Ossetians,Chuvachs),from Spain to Russia (Siberia), from Italy to Norway.
    I am Half Algerian (from my Dad),I am E-V13 carrier : E-V13-->E-Z1057-->E-CTS1273-->E-BY3880-->E-Z5017-->E-Z5016-->E-Y138701* : https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y138701/
    My subclade looks like mostly Iberian/(North African?), my closest matches are Portuguese, Spaniards and Algerian on Yfull and FTDNA. (Maybe a Iberian/Vandal/Andalusian roots?)
    PS: We share a common ancestor at E-Z5016 level 4400 years ago, you are Kurd, I am Algerian...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyaxeres View Post
    Hi, I am gradually getting my Yseq EV13 panel. So far positive for z17264 and awaiting PH1173. I am from Southern ‘Iraqi’ Kurdistan. Not sure if the Z17264 indicates Greek - post Alexander or could be Iranic (Thracian origin and mediated by the Cimmerians who invaded Kurdistan in 7thC BC). The more you look into the history the more the possible routes!

    Wondering what others thought, will update with terminal subclade when available.
    It was present in Iranians, especially through backflow from the Thraco-Cimmerian and Thraco-Scythian sphere, but being also spread by Greeks and Thracians. There are some subclades downstream of E-Z17264 which are more Northern Central European, Greek, Armenian etc. So it will depend on your subclade and matches, which route your ancestors most likely took. Because the clade as a whole being fairly old, dating back to the Early Iron Age, the initial dispersion of E-V13 from the Carpatho-Pannonian sphere with Channelled Ware and Hallstatt. Probably you will have to wait for more ancient and modern samples as to where exactly your branch can be put, because so far most branches are quite old and the subclades present still date back to the Early Iron Age, unless you fall into one of these.

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    Thanks all, I now have my final Yseq position. I am Ph1173 positive and negative for all downstream SNPs:
    PH1173 C+
    BY4418 G-
    S17790 A-
    BY203425 A-
    BY4283 C-

    Would it be worth me sending my data to Yfull or will that not add any info beyond what Yseq can give? Not sure how it could as I don’t think they do any further tests?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyaxeres View Post
    Thanks all, I now have my final Yseq position. I am Ph1173 positive and negative for all downstream SNPs:
    PH1173 C+
    BY4418 G-
    S17790 A-
    BY203425 A-
    BY4283 C-
    Would it be worth me sending my data to Yfull or will that not add any info beyond what Yseq can give? Not sure how it could as I don’t think they do any further tests?
    Thanks
    They can just use what you have already tested. Its better to do BigY or WGS at the start, that way new relatives might be found and subclades formed. Just out of interest, to see how much you saved that way, how much did the procedure cost up to this point? Just to have a comparison vs. WGS and BigY, which is of course always preferable, because it gives you future positions and relatives, not just a spot in the established tree.

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    Thanks, good to know, didn’t know if worthwhile to do YFull also.
    It’s been $94 including shipping and taxes so far with Yseq so pretty reasonable.
    To be honest I thought I would be some kind of early Middle Eastern EV13 so surprised with the results so far.
    Cant wait for the Haplogroup to be a bit more understandable. It seems to jump around much more than other groups…

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyaxeres View Post
    Thanks, good to know, didn’t know if worthwhile to do YFull also.
    It’s been $94 including shipping and taxes so far with Yseq so pretty reasonable.
    To be honest I thought I would be some kind of early Middle Eastern EV13 so surprised with the results so far.
    Cant wait for the Haplogroup to be a bit more understandable. It seems to jump around much more than other groups…
    The diversity and spread is not that extraordinary. You have to consider it dates to the earliest expansion phase in the transitional period (1.300-900 BC), at that time E-V13 carriers were essentially radiating out in all directions, even down to the Hallstatt period. Its just with younger subclades that they have a clear regional-ethnic correlation.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyaxeres View Post
    Hi, I am gradually getting my Yseq EV13 panel. So far positive for z17264 and awaiting PH1173. I am from Southern ‘Iraqi’ Kurdistan. Not sure if the Z17264 indicates Greek - post Alexander or could be Iranic (Thracian origin and mediated by the Cimmerians who invaded Kurdistan in 7thC BC). The more you look into the history the more the possible routes!

    Wondering what others thought, will update with terminal subclade when available.
    E-V13 in Iraqi Kurdistan is atypical, but not too surprising.

    Illyrian-Thracian soldiers in the Roman Empire and Alexander the Great's army are the main reason E-V13 spread far and wide.

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    yazidi 106 samples ( 17 y-str prediction by negven)
    8/106 7.92% e1b1b1 (all there e1b1b1 are e-v13 and not e-m34 )
    thats what the e1b1b1 haplotypes look like according to negven


    source:

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0187408



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis




    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

    "Know where you came from and where you are going."

    Direct paternal line : mizrahi from damascus

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    Persian Kings resettled a Substantial number of Greeks deep in Asia minor during the Ionian revolt and that continued to Alexander's era. Alexander legendary reed thousands of Greek prisoners from persepolis alone.
    Byzantines did the same. Much of the Slavs that entered the Greek space(and for the next centuries) were send deep into asia minor.
    Alternative sources?
    Greek Mercenaries during the Persian, Alexandrian and Hellenistic period.
    Cimmerian Intrusion in Anatolia.
    Arrival of Sea people.
    Phrygian Empire.
    Galatians settlement in central anatolia.

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    20% R1B in Yezidis while only 4% in Kurds, despite being the same ethnicity?

    That’s quite the discrepancy. E1B is within normal variation between the two groups.

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    Are not the Kurds associated with the ancient Medes ?
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    Are not the Kurds associated with the ancient Medes ?
    It's one theory I think, others include Scythian influences too. Also interesting is the fairly significant and diverse presence of E-V13 in Armenians. Percentage wise not that big, but more than just some "scattered dots" without any deeper meaning. I wouldn't wonder if the Armenian and Kurdish E-V13 has a similar source - probably from Cimmerians/Iranians (Scythians/Sarmatians). They don't seem to be particularly close to the Balkan-Greek clusters, aren't they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    It's one theory I think, others include Scythian influences too. Also interesting is the fairly significant and diverse presence of E-V13 in Armenians. Percentage wise not that big, but more than just some "scattered dots" without any deeper meaning. I wouldn't wonder if the Armenian and Kurdish E-V13 has a similar source - probably from Cimmerians/Iranians (Scythians/Sarmatians). They don't seem to be particularly close to the Balkan-Greek clusters, aren't they?
    How would one look up the genetic diversity of E-V13 in Armenians? Is there a database available?

    Kurds and Armenians have lived alongside one another for centuries (and likely longer) so it probably has a similar source, but I'm not so sure it's correlated to Cimmerian/Iranians unless through Balkan colonization/integration of Iranians, and then through that trickled down to others(?).

    4 Cimmerian samples have been found for R1b1a, Q1a1, R1a-z645, and R1a2c-b111-- but no E-V13. Not that they couldn't carry it, just not found so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Androgenica View Post
    How would one look up the genetic diversity of E-V13 in Armenians? Is there a database available?

    Kurds and Armenians have lived alongside one another for centuries (and likely longer) so it probably has a similar source, but I'm not so sure it's correlated to Cimmerian/Iranians unless through Balkan colonization/integration of Iranians, and then through that trickled down to others(?).

    4 Cimmerian samples have been found for R1b1a, Q1a1, R1a-z645, and R1a2c-b111-- but no E-V13. Not that they couldn't carry it, just not found so far.
    Cimmerians, Scythians and Sarmatians, all three came to the Western Pontic steppe and Carpathians, assimilated locals and those lineages did migrate with them in what we might call backflow. Quite typically, some of the lineages common in ancient Pannonians and Armenians are also in Northern and Western China. So they definitely spread along the steppe routes.

    You can look up the Armenian E-V13 on FTDNA and YFull. Not that many, 12 on FTDNA, but many subclades. There are more Armenian E-V13 on FTDNA than there are from countries with a solid small percentage like Denmark, Belgium (!), Moldova (!!!) etc. This is of course also due to testing bias, but that not withstanding, its interesting to note. And in most cases they have their own old subclade branch, no recent overlap. Which means it looks like E-V13 reached Armenians in fairly ancient times.

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