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Thread: What do the anti-vaxxers share in common?

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    Post What do the anti-vaxxers share in common?

    Vaccination is a topic that is as likely to divide people and families as politics and religion. It has been exacerbated by the Coronavirus pandemic, but the rift was already present long before in some countries.

    According to Our World in Data, 33% of French people don't believe that vaccines in general are safe. That is the highest percentage in the world, ahead of countries like Russia (24%), Switzerland (22%), Austria (21%), Belgium (21%), the Netherlands (17%), Italy (14%), Germany (13%), and the USA (11%), to cite only a few Western countries.

    The French also come on top among developed countries for the percentage of people who don't think that vaccines (in general) are effective. Despite strong evidence that they do work, 18% of French people refuse to believe so. Other countries with large percentages (>10%) of deniers are usually developing countries, including Liberia, Nigeria, Togo, Gabon, Namibia, Uganda, Peru or Indonesia. In contrast, only 3 to 4% of Japanese, German, British, Irish or Nordic people doubt the efficacy of vaccines. The US and Canada are a bit higher at 6%, but still a long way off France's 18%.

    Nonetheless, 76% of French people agree that vaccines are important for children. It may seem high, but it's also one of the lowest percentages in the Western world, when the average is 89% in Northern Europe, 86% in Southern Europe, 87% in the USA, Canada and New Zealand, and 92% in Australia.

    What is amazing is that France managed to convince 76% of its population to get vaccinated against Covid-19, considerably more than some countries that are less sceptical about the efficacy and benefits of vaccines in general, such as Sweden (71%), Germany (69%) and the United States (66%). But it also mean that at least 10% of French people got vaccinated even though they thought it was not safe to do so, or that a lot of people aren't really sure what they believe. So the stats should probably distinguish better between the vaccine-hesitant and full-on disbelievers.

    That made me wonder what was the profile of a typical anti-vaxxer and whether that profile was different in various countries.

    Profile of the anti-vaxxers in France

    A study of 86,000 individuals conducted by two sociologists in December 2020 about the Covid vaccine and vaccination in general found that French anti-vaxxers were more likely to be:
    • Poor : Among the bottom 10% of the socio-economic strata, 17.5% of people were completely opposed to vaccines in general and 19.5% to the Covid vaccine. The percentage goes down steadily as social class increases. Among the richest 10% the percentages of anti-vaxxers were respectively 4.5% (general) and 6.5% (Covid).
    • Less educated : 18.7% of people with no diploma opposed vaccines in general, against 4.3% of university graduates. The same trend was true for the Covid vaccines, although with less disparity (16% against 8%).
    • Non-White : 20% of non-White first generation immigrants and 18% of non-Whites from the overseas colonies are against vaccination in general (compared to 10% for the mainstream population).


    Profile of the anti-vaxxers in United Kingdom

    The British governments published a detailed report on Covid vaccine-hesitancy based on 15,000+ respondents.

    • Blacks have the highest rates of vaccine hesitancy (21%) compared with White adults (4%).
    • Vaccine hesitancy was considerably higher among Muslims (14%) than Christians (4%).
    • Poor : Adults living in the most deprived areas of England were more likely to report vaccine hesitancy (8%) than adults living in the least deprived areas (2%).


    Profile of the anti-vaxxers in the United States

    Pew Research did an opinion survey on the measles vaccine in 2015 and the demographic groups that stood out the most anti-vaxxer were the non-Whites (17%, against 6% of Whites) and those with less education (14% for HS or less, against 5% of College Graduates+)

    According to this article, Americans who reject vaccines are more likely to be:

    • Poor : People earning less than $25,000 a year are 50% more likely to distrust vaccines.
    • Rural : Rural dwellers are 28% more likely to refuse vaccines.
    • Less educated : People with a high school diploma as their highest education level are 11% more likely to be against vaccines.
    • Don’t care about the environment : anti-vaxxers are 30% more likely to be “not concerned at all” about the environment and climate change.


    They were also more likely to be Midwestern and middle aged, but that's probably because the Midwest is more rural and less educated to start with.

    In summary, among these three countries, the common denominator of anti-vaxxers are that they tend to be poorer, less educated, and more likely non-White.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 08-11-21 at 10:47.
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    This map shows the vaccination rates for measles, which is probably the most controversial childhood vaccine because of disinformation campaigns associating the MMR vaccine (measles, mumps, rubella) with increased risk of autism. This was based on a 1998 study that has since been confirmed to be false and fraudulent. The study was retracted in 2010, but anti-vaccinationists are still citing it and spreading the hoax on social media as if it were true. These disinformation campaigns have been particularly vociferous in English-speaking countries, France and Italy.



    Now the measles vaccination rate in Britain, Ireland, France, but also the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, has fallen just under the herd immunity threshold of 92%. It's almost as if there was an active hoax campaign intended to get rid of herd immunity in those countries. Perhaps cynical people at the government decided to let that happen on purpose to punish anti-vaxxers. The logic would be that if stupid people didn't get vaccinated, the lack of herd immunity would endanger the lives of their children and the parents would come to regret it bitterly afterwards, as a form of punishment for not trusting science and the health authorities.

    In the Balkans the reason for the low vaccination rate is different and more related to laxer government policy. Money is never an issue for vaccination. Many poor countries in Africa have very high vaccination rates. For example Eritrea, which is one of the poorest countries in the world, ranking 214th out of 225 countries in terms of GDP per capita, has vaccinated 99% of its population against measles (and over 95% for other childhood diseases). It's really a matter of political will. The huge difference of measles vaccination rates between Morocco (99%) and Algeria (80%) illustrates that. Ditto for Hungary (99%) vs Serbia (87%), or Latvia (99%) vs Estonia (88%).
    Last edited by Maciamo; 08-11-21 at 10:44.

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    Here is a great article from The Guardian describing a specific kind of anti-vaxxer found in richer Western countries and especially in places like California and France. They appear to be a convergence of conspiracy theorists with the Self-help and Wellness industry (alternative medicine, yoga, chakras, raw food diets, body detox and the like). Here is how to recognise them:


    • Believe that if they eat right and exercise they won't get ill.
    • Believe that people who get Covid only have themselves to blame and that people dying from Covid are people with disabilities, or those who are already sick, obese or old.
    • Likely to quote the slogan "My body, my choice." when rejecting vaccines.
    • Tend to reject Western medicine and science to some extent.
    • Very critical of Big Pharma, who they think conspires to keep the masses sick to make more money.
    • Highly distrustful of government and authorities.
    • Believe in conspiracy theories involving billionaires (Bill Gates being often mentioned) or organisations like the World Economic Forum that want to control people and take over the world.
    • Refer to the restrictions on the non-vaccinated as "medical apartheid" and use expressions like "the use of discrimination and segregation based on medical status".
    • Say things like "modern civilisation is poisoning our lives, poisoning our food, and we need to find ways of living clean again, by cutting ourselves loose from a society that is constraining us and forcing us to live an inauthentic, unnatural lifestyle."
    • Often affiliated with QAnon in the U.S.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Here is a great article from The Guardian describing a specific kind of anti-vaxxer found in richer Western countries and especially in places like California and France. They appear to be a convergence of conspiracy theorists with the Self-help and Wellness industry (alternative medicine, yoga, chakras, raw food diets, body detox and the like). Here is how to recognise them:


    • Believe that if they eat right and exercise they won't get ill.
    • Believe that people who get Covid only have themselves to blame and that people dying from Covid are people with disabilities, or those who are already sick, obese or old.
    • Likely to quote the slogan "My body, my choice." when rejecting vaccines.
    • Tend to reject Western medicine and science to some extent.
    • Very critical of Big Pharma, who they think conspires to keep the masses sick to make more money.
    • Highly distrustful of government and authorities.
    • Believe in conspiracy theories involving billionaires (Bill Gates being often mentioned) or organisations like the World Economic Forum that want to control people and take over the world.
    • Refer to the restrictions on the non-vaccinated as "medical apartheid" and use expressions like "the use of discrimination and segregation based on medical status".
    • Say things like "modern civilisation is poisoning our lives, poisoning our food, and we need to find ways of living clean again, by cutting ourselves loose from a society that is constraining us and forcing us to live an inauthentic, unnatural lifestyle."
    • Often affiliated with QAnon in the U.S.
    Absolutely right. I can underline this in the Dutch case until the nineties anti-vax was something of the Dutch Bible Belt and some extreme "tree cuddlers". Anno 2021 they are heavily 'admixed' with 'right wing populists'.

    Blue are not the not vaccinated, the more right wing populist the more anti-vax:


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    Many anti-vaxxers I know think they are incredibly intelligent. Most of them see themselves generally as leading a life that is beyond us mortals. When they speak of their experiencies, it is usually something so unique that it certainly can't happen to us normal people. They often have spiritual experiencies, that again, makes them special and gives them authority to see and understand beyond. Messiah complex comes into my mind, but so many?

    The others just don't trust authorities. Uneducated people are conservative and a national vaccination plan organized by the government is already enough as an idea to cause a mistrust. It's a new unknown momentum for them, that makes them unsure, hence they tend to wait and do nothing - status quo and don't look at me approach. On top of it, when they are being exposed to aggressive anti-vaxx argumentation of those mentioned above, that just reinforces their hesitation. They often believe in this propaganda to justify their own inertia. Those must first witness dramatical events with the ones they care about to take some action.

    Educated people can separate a need for vaccination from a bad government, cause they are aware of the benefits of vaccination these last 200 years. They are also more able to think broader and in advance, that makes them more responsible and proactive.

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    I received my booster for Pfizer along with the Flu shot, yesterday.

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    ^^I felt no side effects from either one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_joe View Post
    Many anti-vaxxers I know think they are incredibly intelligent. Most of them see themselves generally as leading a life that is beyond us mortals. When they speak of their experiencies, it is usually something so unique that it certainly can't happen to us normal people. They often have spiritual experiencies, that again, makes them special and gives them authority to see and understand beyond. Messiah complex comes into my mind, but so many?

    The others just don't trust authorities. Uneducated people are conservative and a national vaccination plan organized by the government is already enough as an idea to cause a mistrust. It's a new unknown momentum for them, that makes them unsure, hence they tend to wait and do nothing - status quo and don't look at me approach. On top of it, when they are being exposed to aggressive anti-vaxx argumentation of those mentioned above, that just reinforces their hesitation. They often believe in this propaganda to justify their own inertia. Those must first witness dramatical events with the ones they care about to take some action.

    Educated people can separate a need for vaccination from a bad government, cause they are aware of the benefits of vaccination these last 200 years. They are also more able to think broader and in advance, that makes them more responsible and proactive.

    There is a correlation with eduction. Nevertheless in the Dutch case is 11% of higher educated not vaccinated. The anti-vax party has voters who are for 1/3 higher educated. (that's higher than the average population)....So there is a contingent anti-vax higher educated, with indeed a kind of q anon world view. Education is a thing but not the whole thing in this respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Here is a great article from The Guardian describing a specific kind of anti-vaxxer found in richer Western countries and especially in places like California and France. They appear to be a convergence of conspiracy theorists with the Self-help and Wellness industry (alternative medicine, yoga, chakras, raw food diets, body detox and the like). Here is how to recognise them:


    • Believe that if they eat right and exercise they won't get ill.
    • Believe that people who get Covid only have themselves to blame and that people dying from Covid are people with disabilities, or those who are already sick, obese or old.
    • Likely to quote the slogan "My body, my choice." when rejecting vaccines.
    • Tend to reject Western medicine and science to some extent.
    • Very critical of Big Pharma, who they think conspires to keep the masses sick to make more money.
    • Highly distrustful of government and authorities.
    • Believe in conspiracy theories involving billionaires (Bill Gates being often mentioned) or organisations like the World Economic Forum that want to control people and take over the world.
    • Refer to the restrictions on the non-vaccinated as "medical apartheid" and use expressions like "the use of discrimination and segregation based on medical status".
    • Say things like "modern civilisation is poisoning our lives, poisoning our food, and we need to find ways of living clean again, by cutting ourselves loose from a society that is constraining us and forcing us to live an inauthentic, unnatural lifestyle."
    • Often affiliated with QAnon in the U.S.
    In the Dutch Magazines this is already called "Wellness right":

    https://www.vn.nl/wellnessrechts-yog...plottheorieen/

    and
    https://www.mariusblog.nl/van-new-age-naar-altright/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Absolutely right. I can underline this in the Dutch case until the nineties anti-vax was something of the Dutch Bible Belt and some extreme "tree cuddlers". Anno 2021 they are heavily 'admixed' with 'right wing populists'.

    Blue are not the not vaccinated, the more right wing populist the more anti-vax:

    Thanks for sharing. It's amazing how politically polarised the Dutch anti-vaxxers are.

    Democrats 66 (D66) members are all vaccinated. D66 is a center to centrist social-liberal party especially popular with university graduates and wealthier people. Examples of social liberalism include the Democratic Party in the USA, the Liberal Democrats in the UK, La République En Marche! in France (Macron's party), the SPD in Germany, the Partito Democratico in Italy, and the Open VLD and MR in Belgium. Some notable people associated with social liberalism include Jeremy Bentham, John Stuart Mill, John Maynard Keynes, Karl Popper, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Paul Krugman.

    At the other end of the scale are the Forum voor Democratie (FvD), a conservative and right-wing populist, Eurosceptic political party, and the Partij voor de Vrijheid (PVV), a nationalist, right-wing populist party. These two are surely the closest equivalent of Trumpism that the Netherlands have. 85% of FvD members remain unvaccinated.

    In the US anti-vaxxers are overwhelmingly Trump supporters. According to a NPR/PBS/Marist poll from March 2021, 47% of Trump supporters would refuse the Covid vaccine. An article from the Financial Times from July 2021 shows the correlation between vaccine hesitancy and Trump vote share.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    There is a correlation with eduction. Nevertheless in the Dutch case is 11% of higher educated not vaccinated. The anti-vax party has voters who are for 1/3 higher educated. (that's higher than the average population)....So there is a contingent anti-vax higher educated, with indeed a kind of q anon world view. Education is a thing but not the whole thing in this respect.
    I agree and you put it correctly as a correlation instead of a rule. Every society has a different constellation of factors. The uneducated are generally easier to manipulate. Give them a reason to fear and you have an army.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Thanks for sharing. It's amazing how politically polarised the Dutch anti-vaxxers are.

    Democrats 66 (D66) members are all vaccinated. D66 is a center to centrist social-liberal party especially popular with university graduates and wealthier people. Examples of social liberalism include the Democratic Party in the USA, the Liberal Democrats in the UK, La République En Marche! in France (Macron's party), the SPD in Germany, the Partito Democratico in Italy, and the Open VLD and MR in Belgium. Some notable people associated with social liberalism include Jeremy Bentham, John Stuart Mill, John Maynard Keynes, Karl Popper, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Paul Krugman.

    At the other end of the scale are the Forum voor Democratie (FvD), a conservative and right-wing populist, Eurosceptic political party, and the Partij voor de Vrijheid (PVV), a nationalist, right-wing populist party. These two are surely the closest equivalent of Trumpism that the Netherlands have. 85% of FvD members remain unvaccinated.

    In the US anti-vaxxers are overwhelmingly Trump supporters. According to a NPR/PBS/Marist poll from March 2021, 47% of Trump supporters would refuse the Covid vaccine. An article from the Financial Times from July 2021 shows the correlation between vaccine hesitancy and Trump vote share.

    D66 is not the SPD! The SPD, social-democratic is the PvdA with 2% not vax (so second), D66 is indeed more Mill like, liberal.

    Yes and the essence is that Forum voor Democratie has in his voters and member quite high component of higher educated!

    That's congruent with the article in the Guardian, New Age meets Q-Anon....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Here is a great article from The Guardian describing a specific kind of anti-vaxxer found in richer Western countries and especially in places like California and France. They appear to be a convergence of conspiracy theorists with the Self-help and Wellness industry (alternative medicine, yoga, chakras, raw food diets, body detox and the like). Here is how to recognise them:


    • Believe that if they eat right and exercise they won't get ill.
    • Believe that people who get Covid only have themselves to blame and that people dying from Covid are people with disabilities, or those who are already sick, obese or old.
    • Likely to quote the slogan "My body, my choice." when rejecting vaccines.
    • Tend to reject Western medicine and science to some extent.
    • Very critical of Big Pharma, who they think conspires to keep the masses sick to make more money.
    • Highly distrustful of government and authorities.
    • Believe in conspiracy theories involving billionaires (Bill Gates being often mentioned) or organisations like the World Economic Forum that want to control people and take over the world.
    • Refer to the restrictions on the non-vaccinated as "medical apartheid" and use expressions like "the use of discrimination and segregation based on medical status".
    • Say things like "modern civilisation is poisoning our lives, poisoning our food, and we need to find ways of living clean again, by cutting ourselves loose from a society that is constraining us and forcing us to live an inauthentic, unnatural lifestyle."
    • Often affiliated with QAnon in the U.S.
    Anyhow this kind of thinking prevents that we (and other European countries) have a vaccination grade like in Portugal, 98% And when in Portugal the restrictions are lowered we face new restrictions/ lock down kind of measures (just a press conference of the MP)....otherwise health care system collapse. But the government feels the urge to appease the anti-vaxers (compared to that even the US government is much more strict).

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    For my own opinion the strategy of the country I am living in is a disaster, so many dead people, so many hosts for a harmful virus, an egoistic and ruthless health minister (Jens Spahn), without any sign of responsibility.

    Now many people got vaccinated and the cases are rising up like last year, they blame it on the anti-vaxxers but I don’t think it is true. Yesterday news articles where released in the mass media, about 44% of vaccinated peoples over 60 years in intensive care units, in some regions 55% of infections are due to vaccinated people. I remember how Ugur Sahin said in spring to the people in Germany, they will have a wonderful Autumn, it was a lie, but nobody cares about his false claiming today. The vaccines don’t work how the companies promised it to the governments. I don’t know if they just got not enough time to make good studies, or if it is calculated failure and they gave a * on the lives of the people who believe that they are now protected and can meet again like before.
    I personally fear for my parents, who now believe to be protected from the virus and go to parties and dinners with many people. The same goes for the parents of my wife, they believe that they cannot die anymore from the virus, because they are vaccinated and the media told them so some months ago. And many other poor and bad educated people believe that they are now safe and cannot die anymore, so they meet with many people, get infected, spread the virus, go to hospital and die.

    It is typical for the media in Germany to show anti-vaxxers in a hospital in intense care unit, but do not mention much on the dead of vaccinated people. If an outbreak happens in an old peoples home and many of them die, where all elderly is vaccinated, they blame the unvaccinated nurses for this events.

    The government has to be blamed, because they trust the vaccine companies and their connection to the stock market. Its all about money and the media is doing much propaganda every day to strength the trust in the vaccines and the idea to be free again.
    They repeat the phrase of “Living with the virus forever” in the media.
    There was another misleading media phrase in summer, the so called “Liberating pick” like it would liberate the people from caring for their lives and the ones of others.

    The governments of the world don’t want the people to go mad, they don’t want to pay them money for stopping social contact to beat the virus. It would only need some weeks in isolation and all would be over. But this would require world wide compassion and responsibility. Worldwide lock down. But this would crash the stockmarket so they rather sacrifice our lives and let us live in danger, restrictions and fear, for years. Humanity is not able to work together to eradicate the virus, so the virus will create big social and economical disasters in the near future.

    Vaccines will not stop the pandemic, the reality can be seen now, cases are rising in countries with high vaccination rates, even more bad then last year. The reason for this is simple: The vaccines don’t work well and the people do not limit their contacts anymore, so the virus spreads like never before. But they are allowed to do this, because the governments give them the right of freedom if they are vaccinated and don’t practice lock downs anymore. They don’t close schools anymore.
    They blame the anti-vaxxers for this, to distract from their own worldwide stupidity.

    Zero Covid is the only resolution in my opinion. Vaccines cannot stop this pandemic, until real efficient vaccines will be developed. But maybe this will never be the case.

    Now that people will loose their jobs because they wont get a medicalt reatment against their will, the situation of the health system in many countries will escalate like never before. If firefighters and police men will be also fired because of this, local revolts and chaos are near.

    China,New Zealand, Australia, the few countries that got it relatively good managed. With strict lockdowns and isolation. But now New Zealand and Australia trust the vaccines, stop lockdowns and the cases are rising up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggerland View Post
    For my own opinion the strategy of the country I am living in is a disaster, so many dead people, so many hosts for a harmful virus, an egoistic and ruthless health minister (Jens Spahn), without any sign of responsibility.

    Now many people got vaccinated and the cases are rising up like last year, they blame it on the anti-vaxxers but I don’t think it is true. Yesterday news articles where released in the mass media, about 44% of vaccinated peoples over 60 years in intensive care units, in some regions 55% of infections are due to vaccinated people. I remember how Ugur Sahin said in spring to the people in Germany, they will have a wonderful Autumn, it was a lie, but nobody cares about his false claiming today. The vaccines don’t work how the companies promised it to the governments. I don’t know if they just got not enough time to make good studies, or if it is calculated failure and they gave a * on the lives of the people who believe that they are now protected and can meet again like before.
    I personally fear for my parents, who now believe to be protected from the virus and go to parties and dinners with many people. The same goes for the parents of my wife, they believe that they cannot die anymore from the virus, because they are vaccinated and the media told them so some months ago. And many other poor and bad educated people believe that they are now safe and cannot die anymore, so they meet with many people, get infected, spread the virus, go to hospital and die.

    It is typical for the media in Germany to show anti-vaxxers in a hospital in intense care unit, but do not mention much on the dead of vaccinated people. If an outbreak happens in an old peoples home and many of them die, where all elderly is vaccinated, they blame the unvaccinated nurses for this events.

    The government has to be blamed, because they trust the vaccine companies and their connection to the stock market. Its all about money and the media is doing much propaganda every day to strength the trust in the vaccines and the idea to be free again.
    They repeat the phrase of “Living with the virus forever” in the media.
    There was another misleading media phrase in summer, the so called “Liberating pick” like it would liberate the people from caring for their lives and the ones of others.

    The governments of the world don’t want the people to go mad, they don’t want to pay them money for stopping social contact to beat the virus. It would only need some weeks in isolation and all would be over. But this would require world wide compassion and responsibility. Worldwide lock down. But this would crash the stockmarket so they rather sacrifice our lives and let us live in danger, restrictions and fear, for years. Humanity is not able to work together to eradicate the virus, so the virus will create big social and economical disasters in the near future.

    Vaccines will not stop the pandemic, the reality can be seen now, cases are rising in countries with high vaccination rates, even more bad then last year. The reason for this is simple: The vaccines don’t work well and the people do not limit their contacts anymore, so the virus spreads like never before. But they are allowed to do this, because the governments give them the right of freedom if they are vaccinated and don’t practice lock downs anymore. They don’t close schools anymore.
    They blame the anti-vaxxers for this, to distract from their own worldwide stupidity.

    Zero Covid is the only resolution in my opinion. Vaccines cannot stop this pandemic, until real efficient vaccines will be developed. But maybe this will never be the case.

    Now that people will loose their jobs because they wont get a medicalt reatment against their will, the situation of the health system in many countries will escalate like never before. If firefighters and police men will be also fired because of this, local revolts and chaos are near.

    China,New Zealand, Australia, the few countries that got it relatively good managed. With strict lockdowns and isolation. But now New Zealand and Australia trust the vaccines, stop lockdowns and the cases are rising up.
    The simple fact is that vaccination can not 100% prevent. Nevertheless vaccination means you are less likely to infect with it and when you get it it is less worse. Only little percentage of the vaccinated people end in the IC.

    We now see that most of the people on the IC are not vaccinated. Nevertheless when the figures rise (explode) again also a part of the vaccinated are in the IC (a little percentage on huge figures can still be large).

    In fact the non vaccinated part is in much countries much too big.....with all the consequences.

    In Portugal is meanwhile 98% vaccinated, with 60 people in the IC.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggerland View Post
    For my own opinion the strategy of the country I am living in is a disaster, so many dead people, so many hosts for a harmful virus, an egoistic and ruthless health minister (Jens Spahn), without any sign of responsibility.

    Now many people got vaccinated and the cases are rising up like last year, they blame it on the anti-vaxxers but I don’t think it is true. Yesterday news articles where released in the mass media, about 44% of vaccinated peoples over 60 years in intensive care units, in some regions 55% of infections are due to vaccinated people. I remember how Ugur Sahin said in spring to the people in Germany, they will have a wonderful Autumn, it was a lie, but nobody cares about his false claiming today. The vaccines don’t work how the companies promised it to the governments. I don’t know if they just got not enough time to make good studies, or if it is calculated failure and they gave a * on the lives of the people who believe that they are now protected and can meet again like before.
    I personally fear for my parents, who now believe to be protected from the virus and go to parties and dinners with many people. The same goes for the parents of my wife, they believe that they cannot die anymore from the virus, because they are vaccinated and the media told them so some months ago. And many other poor and bad educated people believe that they are now safe and cannot die anymore, so they meet with many people, get infected, spread the virus, go to hospital and die.

    It is typical for the media in Germany to show anti-vaxxers in a hospital in intense care unit, but do not mention much on the dead of vaccinated people. If an outbreak happens in an old peoples home and many of them die, where all elderly is vaccinated, they blame the unvaccinated nurses for this events.

    The government has to be blamed, because they trust the vaccine companies and their connection to the stock market. Its all about money and the media is doing much propaganda every day to strength the trust in the vaccines and the idea to be free again.
    They repeat the phrase of “Living with the virus forever” in the media.
    There was another misleading media phrase in summer, the so called “Liberating pick” like it would liberate the people from caring for their lives and the ones of others.

    The governments of the world don’t want the people to go mad, they don’t want to pay them money for stopping social contact to beat the virus. It would only need some weeks in isolation and all would be over. But this would require world wide compassion and responsibility. Worldwide lock down. But this would crash the stockmarket so they rather sacrifice our lives and let us live in danger, restrictions and fear, for years. Humanity is not able to work together to eradicate the virus, so the virus will create big social and economical disasters in the near future.

    Vaccines will not stop the pandemic, the reality can be seen now, cases are rising in countries with high vaccination rates, even more bad then last year. The reason for this is simple: The vaccines don’t work well and the people do not limit their contacts anymore, so the virus spreads like never before. But they are allowed to do this, because the governments give them the right of freedom if they are vaccinated and don’t practice lock downs anymore. They don’t close schools anymore.
    They blame the anti-vaxxers for this, to distract from their own worldwide stupidity.

    Zero Covid is the only resolution in my opinion. Vaccines cannot stop this pandemic, until real efficient vaccines will be developed. But maybe this will never be the case.

    Now that people will loose their jobs because they wont get a medicalt reatment against their will, the situation of the health system in many countries will escalate like never before. If firefighters and police men will be also fired because of this, local revolts and chaos are near.

    China,New Zealand, Australia, the few countries that got it relatively good managed. With strict lockdowns and isolation. But now New Zealand and Australia trust the vaccines, stop lockdowns and the cases are rising up.
    The vaccine doesn't seem to be 100% efficient. That may be because the virus has numerous strains and the vaccines does not offer the same protection against all strains. There is the same problem with the influenza vaccine. There are four types of influenza viruses in humans: A, B and C. The most common are A and B, but each have subtypes, clades and subclades, and vaccines cannot cover all of them.


    Nevertheless vaccinated people have considerably less chances of dying. The following chart shows the death rate for vaccinated and unvaccinated in the UK as of 23rd Sept. 2021 (source).



    Another factor to consider is that there are several Covid vaccines on the market. It's been reported many times that the Moderna and Pfizer mRNA vaccines are much more efficient than the other vaccines. It would be interesting to compare the death rate among fully vaccinated people by type of vaccine.

    About 40% of British people received the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine - one of the highest percentages in the world. In comparison the second highest in Europe is Slovenia with 26% (source). The lowest is Denmark with only 2% of AstraZenaca. According to the British government, two doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca were 67% effective against infection with the Delta variant (79% with Alpha). For the Pfizer/BioNTech, protection against the delta variant is 88%.

    Finally the vaccine protection declines quickly over the space of a few months, which is why booster shots are required.

    So, all in all, it's not so surprising to see vaccinated people still dying from the virus. But one's chances of survival are much higher if vaccinated, ideally with Pfizer or Moderna and with regular booster shots.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Economist explained that German-speaking countries have some of the lowest Covid vaccination rates in Western Europe (68% in Germany, 67% in Austria and 65% in Switzerland) and that far-right populist parties are to blame. In Germany, around 50% of the anti-vaxxers polled voted for the AfD, a far-right party particularly popular in the east. In the state of Saxony, where the AfD is strongest, vaccination rate is also the lowest at 57.5%.

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    Interesting statistics. I would not have thought that it was France that would be on this list. My family and I were immediately vaccinated and now we don’t worry when we go out.

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