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Thread: Illyrian DNA?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Szigmund's Avatar
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    Illyrian DNA?

    Hello there!

    Is there any reliable source of Illyrian DNA? On these forums I mostly see nationalistic ramblings, nothing too objective info, but maybe I didn't watch carefully. If you have any good material please share!

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    Regular Member Hawk's Avatar
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    I think so far, from available ancient DNA data and archeological data we have digged deep the most probable candidates are J2b2-L283 and R1b-Z2103, E-V13 is still disputed, it depends if the so called Danubian Urnfield influence on top of Early Bronze Age (J2b2-L283, R1b-Z2103) was the E-V13 carrying population which just slightly influenced on Illyrian population structure.

    Where i see E-V13 influencing more is among the Trebeniste Culture, which as material culture did participate in forming the Illyrians(though not as much as Glasinac-Mat Complex), but only South Illyrians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Szigmund View Post
    Hello there!

    Is there any reliable source of Illyrian DNA? On these forums I mostly see nationalistic ramblings, nothing too objective info, but maybe I didn't watch carefully. If you have any good material please share!

    Thank you!
    From the raw data of the upcoming British paper emerges a cluster of J2b carrying individuals which plot between Bell Beakers and older Balkan elements, essentially quite similar to modern Northern and Central Italians in some ways, they are representative of more Northern Illyrians:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post634556

    J-L283 seems to have been one of the main lineages among Illyrians and they being related to the Middle Danubian Tumulus culture. One sample from Novo Mesto, again J2b, comes from a context of Bell Beaker derived R1b carriers, from Eastern Hallstatt, the Unterkrainische Gruppe which practised Illyrian burial rites and customs. Also, we have the samples from Italy (Daunians), which go in a similar direction and revealed J2b as well.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Szigmund's Avatar
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    Wow, thank you for the fine and fast answers!
    Very interesting, thanks a lot!

  5. #5
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    From the raw data of the upcoming British paper emerges a cluster of J2b carrying individuals which plot between Bell Beakers and older Balkan elements, essentially quite similar to modern Northern and Central Italians in some ways, they are representative of more Northern Illyrians:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post634556
    J-L283 seems to have been one of the main lineages among Illyrians and they being related to the Middle Danubian Tumulus culture. One sample from Novo Mesto, again J2b, comes from a context of Bell Beaker derived R1b carriers, from Eastern Hallstatt, the Unterkrainische Gruppe which practised Illyrian burial rites and customs. Also, we have the samples from Italy (Daunians), which go in a similar direction and revealed J2b as well.
    it has been over 2 years that I have stated the Illyrians came from Noricum and northern Pannonia ...............and as for your E-V13 ......i stated long ago, it was a western Dacian line...which eventually got mixed with incoming protot-illyrian and proto-celtic people on the border and over time migrated directly south into serbia, macedonia, albania and northern greece

    one of six pages ..............while we do not have illyrian language ( who cares !) we have their personnel names

    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-Z282

  6. #6
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Illyrian border tribes with dacians would be the proto-Azali

    The Celticized Azalus tribe of Illyrian stock living in this area into the civitas Azaliorum.
    Azali (Greek: Ἄζαλοι) was the name of an Illyrian[107] tribe. After the Great Illyrian Revolt the Azali were deported by the Romans.[2] They were Pannonians.


    The Azali (Ancient Greek: Ἄζαλοι) were a tribe that inhabited Brigetio (now Szőny) in Noricum. The Norici and Taurisci were neighboured across the Danube by the vast homeland of the Boii, to the east by the Dacian Racatae and the Illyrian Azali, to the south by the Latovici, Carni, and Ambidravi, and to the west by the Ambisontes

  7. #7
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Szigmund View Post
    Hello there!

    Is there any reliable source of Illyrian DNA? On these forums I mostly see nationalistic ramblings, nothing too objective info, but maybe I didn't watch carefully. If you have any good material please share!

    Thank you!
    The original population of Noricum (mostly modern day Austria) consisted of Illyrians, who after the great emigration of the Gauls became subordinate to various Celtic tribes.

    https://www.unrv.com/provinces/noricum.php

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    The original population of Noricum (mostly modern day Austria) consisted of Illyrians, who after the great emigration of the Gauls became subordinate to various Celtic tribes.
    https://www.unrv.com/provinces/noricum.php
    I doubt they were all real Illyrians, some could have been even Daco-Thracian influenced, but in any case no Celts in the narrower sense and even some local Celtic or para-Celtic groups were later replaced or assimilated by incoming La Tene Celts.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
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