La Tène Culture to Model Ancient & Modern Italians

Fwiw, one of the models gives me 20.6 Central Italian Chalcolithic, and I am indeed 100% Italian.

I definitely know that you're 100% Italian, Piedmontese to be precise. You drink Barolo on good days, Barbera most other days. Somehow I missed your 20.6 Chalcolithic.
 
@Malaparte

You are Dominique_nuit

Why did you create a separate account? Did you get locked out?

I thought I got banned for drunken late night rants. But in fact it seems I was merely having difficulty signing in on my old laptop.

And despite my wine tip this evening, I drink very little nowadays. I quit my job in restaurant management, which goes a long way toward maintaining an even, sober keel.
 
I thought I got banned for drunken late night rants. But in fact it seems I was merely having difficulty signing in on my old laptop.

And despite my wine tip this evening, I drink very little nowadays. I quit my job in restaurant management, which goes a long way toward maintaining an even, sober keel.

As far as I can tell, your old account only has a couple expired infractions, you weren't banned.
 
Let's just say that I earned the infractions by venting my rage upon you in particular, on a subject entirely collateral to my reasons for frequenting this site. The hour was late, I had biked home at full speed along the Hudson, my veins engorged with red wine, no girlfriend to comfort me, energies redirected to internet warfare, etcetera, etcetera

And not to butter you up, but it's mainly for your insights and Angela's that I make Eupedia a regular visit, as you are both exceedingly knowledgeable about Italian population genetics.

So hopefully I learned my lesson, even if you didn't actually ban me.
 
^^The gradient of La Tène culture matches the map. The North down to Central, nearly 50% to 28%.

After that, there seems to be a break with the south, I myself get about 6.5%. The modeling for the south still is primarily dependent on Catacomb and Minoan.

Why does Southern Italy have more Catacomb than Northern Italy?
 
^^The gradient of La Tène culture matches the map. The North down to Central, nearly 50% to 28%.

After that, there seems to be a break with the south, I myself get about 6.5%. The modeling for the south still is primarily dependent on Catacomb and Minoan.

Setting 0.25 La Tène grows a bit. However, there is still undoubtedly a gradient.

Sardinian never changes, but it has to be said that it always has the worst fit, and the academic sample used for the Sardinians from Ogliastra seems to be more isolated than other Sardinian samples.

LKAlOsf.png


brLW5Is.png


EnJ6X7r.png
 
Why does Southern Italy have more Catacomb than Northern Italy?
Specifically regarding the calculator and this model, it must have something to do with higher Gedrosia. Part of it, in association to some North Euro (mainly), should generate Catacomb %.
My father has the highest Gedrosia in K12b, and he does get more Catacomb than myself, my mother etc.
 
@Malaparte/Dominique Nuit

You have an extraordinary memory for my personal genetic data.

The only calculator which labels me as Piemontese is the MDLP 16. The distance is still not great; 3.2. However, it's the closest I've gotten to any modern Italian population.

The label of Piemontese for these samples is a bit of a misnomer, imo. The academic samples were collected from the Val Borbera, which is in the Appennines of the Piemonte region of Alessandria. That is a late political development, however. This is a Ligurian region; a Ligurian isolate, if you will, as much as it is Piemontese. Perhaps the best description is how they label themselves: the Quattro Province. Cuneo is quite different.

From Wiki:
The Val Borbera (Ligurian: Val Borbëa or Borbéia; Piedmontese: Val Borbaja) is a valley formed by the River Borbera, a tributary of the Scrivia, located in the province of Alessandria. It was historically linked to the Republic of Genoa, the Ligurian Republic and is still strongly tied to Liguria.[1][page needed]
Geography[edit]

This valley is wedged between Val Boreca (Piacenza) to the east; Val Vobbia, Val Brevenna and Alta Val Trebbia (Genoa) and Valle Spinti (Alessandria and Genoa) to the south; and Val Curone, Val Grue and Valley Ossona (Alessandria) to the north. It is bordered to the west by Valle Scrivia.
History[edit]


The Val Borbera is a large valley isolated from the surrounding areas by mountains and by a deep canyon on its western side. In the middle of 1800, the valley was inhabited by >10,000 people, living in seven villages located at about 400 to 800 m of altitude (Cantalupo Ligure, Albera Ligure, Rocchetta Ligure, Cabella Ligure, Carrega Ligure, Roccaforte Ligure and Mongiardino Ligure) in the Alessandria province

The canyon as seen from above showing the Borbera river and the paralleling it

The valley is surrounded by high mountains, making it a place isolated from the surrounding valleys, little touched by industrialization and with a well-preserved environment. Up until the beginning of the 20th century, there was no road connecting the upper with the lower valley, the main passageway being the gravel riverbed in the dry season. It is the only valley of Piedmont bordering on the Emilia-Romagna region.[citation needed]
Until about the 1950s, viticulture was very widespread, especially in the lower valley. Today, a special grape variety is still cultivated in the valley, the Timorasso, which is known and appreciated even outside the valley. There are a lot of chestnut woods in the valley, but chestnuts are no longer harvested as before. Also, the water mills in the valley are no longer in operation, so chestnut flour is now produced outside the valley. Val Borbera is also known for a special kind of potatoes, namely the patata quarantina bianca genovese, and the fagiolane, a rather large, white bean that is very appreciated and used gastronomically in the Province of Alessandria.[2][page needed]
Its population has been considered a genetic isolate.[3]
 
@Jovialis

I noticed nobody gets Halstatt except the female sample R1 from Picene lands in Italy

Why no North Italian gets it when Halstatt is Eastern Austria .......next door to Italy ?
 
... multi 0.25x RC and default

kXpzRb3.gif


Single 0.25X
(I thought it would've been the same as the 0.25 multi, but it isn't)
0wqFCvt.gif
 
@Jovialis
I noticed nobody gets Halstatt except the female sample R1 from Picene lands in Italy
Why no North Italian gets it when Halstatt is Eastern Austria .......next door to Italy ?

La Tene, and Hallstatt are very similar, so it may be subsumed by the algorithm.
 
Until about the 1950s, viticulture was very widespread, especially in the lower valley. Today, a special grape variety is still cultivated in the valley, the Timorasso, which is known and appreciated even outside the valley.

Walter Massa's Timorasso = https://www.astorwines.com/SearchResultsSingle.aspx?p=1&search=25567&searchtype=Contains

And for a wine blogger who is exceptionally keen on Timorasso--some 25 individual posts--check out Mowse ==

https://mowse.blogspot.com/search?q=timorasso
 
La Tene, and Hallstatt are very similar, so it may be subsumed by the algorithm.

ok

500 years plus apart in starting times and they are similar !!?? ...............I have my doubts
 

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