La Tène Culture to Model Ancient & Modern Italians

Jovialis said:
Here is one I made with all the Dodecad K12b populations against the modeling. All of them get a good fit under 3, *however the chart is inverted for goodness of fit:
Vkj7ehd.png
Click to expand...
The split in the Spaniards is interesting (Iberomaurisian or not, Catacomb or not, with most, however, having it), and the fact that the "official" Spanish sample is not very representative, which I always maintained, because it is so heavily Catalan. Also notable is that some of the Spanish regions have so little of the "steppe admixed as well as steppe", although we knew it from other analyses.The official "Greek" sample, again, which is from Thessaly, is not very representative; it's closest to Central Italians.Tuscans are not Northern Italians, but they're also emphatically not Central Italians.Also interesting how much LaTene is preferred over Hallstatt by virtually everyone. That's not the case as much with the ancient Latins, however.
 
Jovialis said:
Here is another one organized by country:

Ytlcfrq.png
Click to expand...

I wonder what would happen if Sintashta were included?

Quite a bit of "Minoan" in R1, which explains why I'm so close to it.
 
Angela said:
I wonder what would happen if Sintashta were included?Quite a bit of "Minoan" in R1, which explains why I'm so close to it.
Click to expand...
What else that is fascinating to me with that model is that Italians and Iberians look very similar, with the only major difference being the kind of farmer ancestry. Italian_C is modeled as 5% WHG+ 95% C_Anatolian_N, and Minoans are Mostly Anatolian_N plus some CHG. Sicily and Murcia for example are the same despite that difference.
 
Another interesting observation is that the Latins and Etruscans take more from Italian copper age. Some modeled with 25% Hallstatt, and BR2, with Le Tene being a significant component as well. Some also get some Minoan. Like R1, which gets about 40%. One the Latins and Etruscans get about 20%-25% similar to N_Italians.
 
Here is another fascinating observation, let us break the admixture of the Ancient Italians in two.


You can see them as incoming steppe-enriched ancestry mixing with pre-indo-european people from the ChL and EBA:


R1 looks like a two-way between Hallstatt and R437. Rather than an outiler, I think R437 represents one of the pre-Indo-European proto-Mediterranean autosomal ancestries along side C_Italian_N and C_Italiian_ChL. Aneli et al. 2021 said that the Mediterranean genetic continuum has the Latins and Etruscans on one end, and the Minoans on the other. We see that represented here in the samples.

8L0XYMt.png
 
Adding Remedello to data of post #1 from Jovialis, my fit and my admixture change a little:

Code: 
Remedello:RISE486:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0.97,2.12,59.48,10.97,0,0,9.02,0,15.53,1.91
Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015,0,0,1.36,0,75.55,12.12,0,0,0.84,0,9.88,0.24
Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0,0,72.08,12.24,0,0,5.69,0,9.99,0

From this


Duarte said:
yfHJXQR.jpg
Click to expand...

To this

gnlAvIX.jpg
 
Jovialis/Angela/Duarte: Excellent work and comments from post 76-91^^^. Cheers.
 
Duarte said:
Adding Remedello to data of post #1 from Jovialis, my fit and my admixture change a little:

Code: 
Remedello:RISE486:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0.97,2.12,59.48,10.97,0,0,9.02,0,15.53,1.91
Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015,0,0,1.36,0,75.55,12.12,0,0,0.84,0,9.88,0.24
Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0,0,72.08,12.24,0,0,5.69,0,9.99,0

From this




To this

gnlAvIX.jpg
Click to expand...

Hi PTrapani. Nice to see you. :):awesome:

Adding Yamna, almost all my catacomb is substituted by them in my results.

7slri0x.jpg


Code: 
Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015,26.6,1.31,0,0,7.93,64.16,0,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015,22.07,0,0,0,0,70.45,0,0,0,0,7.49,0
Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015,26.54,0,0,0,10.09,63.38,0,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015,27.76,0,0.93,0,3.91,65.86,0,0,0,0,1.35,0.19
Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015,23.64,0.86,0,0,9.61,64.98,0.74,0,0,0,0,0.17
Yamnaya:RISE552:Allentoft_2015,30.94,1.6,0,0.01,2.06,61.11,0.39,0,0,0,3.1,0.78
Yamnaya:I0231_SVP3:Haak_2015,28.48,2.19,0,0,1.43,59.76,2.73,0,0,0,4.53,0.89
Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015,31.45,0.86,0,0.77,4.05,54.56,2.22,0,0,0,6.09,0
Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015,24.66,6.11,0,0,0,59.29,0,0,0,0,9.32,0.62
Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015,26.2,3.3,0,0,2.84,64.62,2.03,0,0,0,0,1
Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015,23.9,4.62,0,0,0,60.95,1.32,0.31,0,0,8.64,0.26
Yamnaya:I0439_SVP52:Haak_2015,22.28,1.63,0,0,12.89,54.54,0.24,0,0,0,8.41,0
Yamnaya:I0441_SVP54:Haak_2015,33.48,1.54,0,0,0,56.53,8.46,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015,28.03,2.76,0,0,5.5,59.49,0,0,0,0,3.22,1
Yamnaya:I0444_SVP58:Haak_2015,30.94,0.57,0,0,3.61,59.43,0,0.11,0,0,2.51,2.83
Yamnaya:MJ-06:Jarve_2019,25.85,2.18,0,0,7.49,54.14,0,0.01,0,0,7.93,2.4
Yamnaya:I1917:Mathieson_2018,25.24,1.78,0,0.15,8.03,36.55,0.44,0,0.38,0,25.75,1.68
Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018,25.39,2.85,0,0,1.94,58.76,1.17,0,0,0,8.18,1.72
Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018,24.66,4.21,0,0,2.47,64.51,1.21,0,0,0,2.93,0
Yamnaya_Bulgaria_o:Bul4:Mathieson_2018,13.47,0,0,0,21.27,37.98,0.97,0,3.64,0,21.46,1.2
Yamnaya_Caucasus:RK1001:Wang_2019,29.25,3.69,0,0,4.17,55.21,1.32,0,0,0,4.74,1.63
Yamnaya_Caucasus:RK1007:Wang_2019,29.12,2.38,0,0,0,53.66,5.51,0,0,0,8.72,0.61
Yamnaya_Caucasus:ZO2002:Wang_2019,24.68,1.61,0,0.12,1.44,56.77,2.24,0,0,0,12.3,0.85
Yamnaya_Samara:I0231:Mathieson_2015,29.21,3.13,0,0,3.94,57.21,2.44,0,0,0,3.33,0.75
Yamnaya_Samara:I0357:Mathieson_2015,30.56,1.4,0,0,7.38,54.65,1.41,0,0,0,4.49,0.12
Yamnaya_Samara:I0370:Mathieson_2015,30.97,3.96,0,0,4.88,57.16,0.12,0,0,0,1.92,0.99
Yamnaya_Samara:I0429:Mathieson_2015,28.47,1.92,0,0,3.71,62.57,0.96,0.21,0,0,1.45,0.7
Yamnaya_Samara:I0438:Mathieson_2015,26.82,1.54,0,0.39,0.6,60.83,1.8,0,0,0,7.77,0.25
Yamnaya_Samara:I0439:Mathieson_2015,24.1,0.47,0,0.94,8.87,55.96,2.12,0,0,0,7.16,0.37
Yamnaya_Samara:I0441:Mathieson_2015,33.85,2.03,0,0.21,1.48,59.11,2.63,0,0,0,0,0.69
Yamnaya_Samara:I0443:Mathieson_2015,29.61,2.46,0,0,3.67,58.66,0.07,0,0,0,4.84,0.69
Yamnaya_Samara:I0444:Mathieson_2015,29.41,1.68,0,0,6.52,59.52,0.6,0.02,0,0,1.07,1.19
 
YoWFNID.png


It seems that just using regular Yamnaya instead of catacomb is a better fit, and the algorithm chooses it instead. The yamnaya assigned to northern and central Italians is excess steppe that isn't assigned Le Tene.
 
Duarte said:
Hi PTrapani. Nice to see you. :):awesome:

Adding Yamna, almost all my catacomb is substituted by them in my results.

7slri0x.jpg


Code: 
Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015,26.6,1.31,0,0,7.93,64.16,0,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015,22.07,0,0,0,0,70.45,0,0,0,0,7.49,0
Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015,26.54,0,0,0,10.09,63.38,0,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015,27.76,0,0.93,0,3.91,65.86,0,0,0,0,1.35,0.19
Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015,23.64,0.86,0,0,9.61,64.98,0.74,0,0,0,0,0.17
Yamnaya:RISE552:Allentoft_2015,30.94,1.6,0,0.01,2.06,61.11,0.39,0,0,0,3.1,0.78
Yamnaya:I0231_SVP3:Haak_2015,28.48,2.19,0,0,1.43,59.76,2.73,0,0,0,4.53,0.89
Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015,31.45,0.86,0,0.77,4.05,54.56,2.22,0,0,0,6.09,0
Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015,24.66,6.11,0,0,0,59.29,0,0,0,0,9.32,0.62
Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015,26.2,3.3,0,0,2.84,64.62,2.03,0,0,0,0,1
Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015,23.9,4.62,0,0,0,60.95,1.32,0.31,0,0,8.64,0.26
Yamnaya:I0439_SVP52:Haak_2015,22.28,1.63,0,0,12.89,54.54,0.24,0,0,0,8.41,0
Yamnaya:I0441_SVP54:Haak_2015,33.48,1.54,0,0,0,56.53,8.46,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015,28.03,2.76,0,0,5.5,59.49,0,0,0,0,3.22,1
Yamnaya:I0444_SVP58:Haak_2015,30.94,0.57,0,0,3.61,59.43,0,0.11,0,0,2.51,2.83
Yamnaya:MJ-06:Jarve_2019,25.85,2.18,0,0,7.49,54.14,0,0.01,0,0,7.93,2.4
Yamnaya:I1917:Mathieson_2018,25.24,1.78,0,0.15,8.03,36.55,0.44,0,0.38,0,25.75,1.68
Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018,25.39,2.85,0,0,1.94,58.76,1.17,0,0,0,8.18,1.72
Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018,24.66,4.21,0,0,2.47,64.51,1.21,0,0,0,2.93,0
Yamnaya_Bulgaria_o:Bul4:Mathieson_2018,13.47,0,0,0,21.27,37.98,0.97,0,3.64,0,21.46,1.2
Yamnaya_Caucasus:RK1001:Wang_2019,29.25,3.69,0,0,4.17,55.21,1.32,0,0,0,4.74,1.63
Yamnaya_Caucasus:RK1007:Wang_2019,29.12,2.38,0,0,0,53.66,5.51,0,0,0,8.72,0.61
Yamnaya_Caucasus:ZO2002:Wang_2019,24.68,1.61,0,0.12,1.44,56.77,2.24,0,0,0,12.3,0.85
Yamnaya_Samara:I0231:Mathieson_2015,29.21,3.13,0,0,3.94,57.21,2.44,0,0,0,3.33,0.75
Yamnaya_Samara:I0357:Mathieson_2015,30.56,1.4,0,0,7.38,54.65,1.41,0,0,0,4.49,0.12
Yamnaya_Samara:I0370:Mathieson_2015,30.97,3.96,0,0,4.88,57.16,0.12,0,0,0,1.92,0.99
Yamnaya_Samara:I0429:Mathieson_2015,28.47,1.92,0,0,3.71,62.57,0.96,0.21,0,0,1.45,0.7
Yamnaya_Samara:I0438:Mathieson_2015,26.82,1.54,0,0.39,0.6,60.83,1.8,0,0,0,7.77,0.25
Yamnaya_Samara:I0439:Mathieson_2015,24.1,0.47,0,0.94,8.87,55.96,2.12,0,0,0,7.16,0.37
Yamnaya_Samara:I0441:Mathieson_2015,33.85,2.03,0,0.21,1.48,59.11,2.63,0,0,0,0,0.69
Yamnaya_Samara:I0443:Mathieson_2015,29.61,2.46,0,0,3.67,58.66,0.07,0,0,0,4.84,0.69
Yamnaya_Samara:I0444:Mathieson_2015,29.41,1.68,0,0,6.52,59.52,0.6,0.02,0,0,1.07,1.19
Click to expand...

Nice, I just thought to experiment with yamnaya samples, I hadn't put in the other beyond Mathieson; sans the outlier.
 
Jovialis said:
Southern Italians and Greeks still seem to prefer some Catacomb.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, also Andalucia, but that's it. Even Northern Italy and Tuscany prefer Sintashta etc.

Must be related to higher levels of Caucasus or "Gedrosia". Catacomb had more of it than Sintashta or other admixed groups.

I would be hesitant to conclude that the ancient Greeks derived from Catacomb people. We would need more evidence. It might be, as I said, that it's just a coincidence of higher Caucasus like ancestry in Greeks and Central to Southern Italians which might have arrived later.
 
Angela said:
Interestingly, also Andalucia, but that's it. Even Northern Italy and Tuscany prefer Sintashta etc.

Must be related to higher levels of Caucasus or "Gedrosia". Catacomb had more of it than Sintashta or other admixed groups.

I would be hesitant to conclude that the ancient Greeks derived from Catacomb people. We would need more evidence. It might be, as I said, that it's just a coincidence of higher Caucasus like ancestry in Greeks and Central to Southern Italians which might have arrived later.
Click to expand...

I agree, just using regular yamnaya is better than using catacomb as well.
 
Jovialis said:
Nice, I just thought to experiment with yamnaya samples, I hadn't put in the other beyond Mathieson; sans the outlier.
Click to expand...

Nice, Jovialis. Yes you are right. In the yamna’s source data, the Bulgarian yamnaya must be excluded, as it is an outlier:

Code: 
Yamnaya_Bulgaria_o:Bul4:Mathieson_2018,13.47,0,0,0,21.27,37.98,0.97,0,3.64,0,21.46,1.2

But, even if included, as I did previously, in my specific case this sample was not selected by the algorithm when I checked my disaggregated data displayed.

Thank you :awesome:
 
My updated results adding the Yamnaya Samples to the Source data. An improvement on my fit from my earlier results in post #3 (Distance 0.63), which was still quite good.

BQYOfRa.jpg
 
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