E-V13 clades spreading with the Vekerzug Scythians

[Hawk]

Scythian Borat Sagdiyev on a horseback.

[Hawk]

I know of that sample, but still even if some V13 made it to there, they were in great minority. No, this Vekerzug sample had too much of Scythian gear with him to be a local, plus females with a Southeastern profile had more of it. Like the whole Vekerzug culture they came from the East, hat is an Eastern culture. Locals were definitely two R-L51 guys with a local Unrfield profile and without Scythian gear.

Plus as I've said this La Tene Gyor sample was from another earlier Vekerzug site very nearby. He had most of Scythian auDNA. And ofc this other La Tene "Southerner" is autosomally well modelled with DA198 and MJ12, plus he carried a Scythian MtDNA, so he likely came from the direction of DA198 and recently. And most definitely not from "Greece" (or as Bruzmi tried to make him and all of V13 related to Illyrian Dalmatians), there were surely very Southern people in and around Carpathians, who likely were J2a heavy.

Already it seems apparent V13 was involved with these Pannonian-Carpathian Scythians. Was it involved with earlier groups, yes.

Your interpretations can be paralleled with that of Bruzmi, completely impossible for that sample to be modelled as Scythian-like and MJ12 Thraco-Cimmerian-like. I mean 0% possibility, i checked his autosomal and did quite balanced regional Chalcolithic/EBA components, and he doesn't score anything related to that area, he looks a recent immigrant from Southern Balkans within the context of Late Iron Age.

[Aspurg]

Your interpretations can be paralleled with that of Bruzmi, completely impossible for that sample to be modelled as Scythian-like and MJ12 Thraco-Cimmerian-like. I mean 0% possibility, i checked his autosomal and did quite balanced regional Chalcolithic/EBA components, and he doesn't score anything related to that area, he looks a recent immigrant from Southern Balkans within the context of Late Iron Age.

That degenerate seems to suffer from a pronounced cognitive dissonance disorder. Don't follow in his footsteps..

Who cares about Chalcolithic type auDNA which didn't exist in IA anymore?? Those should be used only when here are no IA samples..

Our V13, with more than 5200 samples on G25, MJ12 comes as 3rd closest to him. J2b2 La Tene 2nd, V13 Geto-Scythian 5th, Vekerzug sample 4th. IA Bulgarian 5th...

Distance to:	HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
0.02942434	HRV_Pop_CA:POP39
0.03473345	HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I4998
0.03718422	UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12
0.04051750	SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11721
0.04070183	Scythian_MDA:scy192
0.04072761	BGR_IA:I5769
0.04078411	HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ43
0.04116147	HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
0.04208370	ITA_Daunian:ORD009
0.04227834	ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR111
0.04265769	HUN_La_Tene:I18493
0.04369392	SRB_BA_Maros:I23209
0.04392344	Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:PRU001.A0101
0.04411479	SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23208
0.04424152	HRV_MBA:I4331
0.04424772	HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04430839	GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log02
0.04442846	HRV_EIA:I23904
0.04459924	ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o:RMPR437b
0.04462277	ITA_Tarquinia_EMA:TAQ022
0.04476954	Bell_Beaker_ITA:I1979
0.04499078	SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11722
0.04534405	HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ40
0.04568674	HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ36
0.04606025	ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance:RMPR969

Him with some Balkan samples, Myceneans are rather far.. Also clearly Proto-Illyrians/Delmatians etc also not as close.

Distance to:	HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
0.03718422	UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12
0.04051750	SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11721
0.04070183	Scythian_MDA:scy192
0.04072761	BGR_IA:I5769
0.04116147	HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
0.04442846	HRV_EIA:I23904
0.04770942	Scythian_MDA:scy300
0.04918639	Scythian_MDA:scy197
0.05042316	Scythian_HUNA198
0.05482127	HRV_IA:I3313
0.05523634	HRV_EIA:I23995
0.05619440	Scythian_MDA:scy305
0.06167173	HRV_EIA:I23996
0.06182606	HRV_EIA:I23911
0.06667336	HRV_EIA:I24638
0.07131512	GRC_Mycenaean:I9033
0.07647551	GRC_Mycenaean:I9010

His modelling with these:
Target: HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
Distance: 2.1463% / 0.02146333
39.4 UKR_Cimmerian_o
18.2 BGR_IA
17.8 HRV_EIA
15.4 GRC_Mycenaean
9.2 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup

This to you means he has "nothing to do with MJ12"???

He is not as Southern as you are portraying him to be. He carries an ultra Scythian mtDNA, most likely he is a recent migrant from Hungarian Scythian areas. Such profiles were alot more common in those areas also.

[Hawk]

The point still stands, it looks to me that E-V13 intruded into Carpathian mountain during MBA from somewhere else. I still stand to my original opinion that it came from further west than Carpathians.

[Archetype0ne]

That degenerate seems to suffer from a pronounced cognitive dissonance disorder. Don't follow in his footsteps..

Who cares about Chalcolithic type auDNA which didn't exist in IA anymore?? Those should be used only when here are no IA samples..

Our V13, with more than 5200 samples on G25, MJ12 comes as 3rd closest to him. J2b2 La Tene 2nd, V13 Geto-Scythian 5th, Vekerzug sample 4th. IA Bulgarian 5th...

Distance to:	HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
0.02942434	HRV_Pop_CA:POP39
0.03473345	HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I4998
0.03718422	UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12
0.04051750	SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11721
0.04070183	Scythian_MDA:scy192
0.04072761	BGR_IA:I5769
0.04078411	HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ43
0.04116147	HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
0.04208370	ITA_Daunian:ORD009
0.04227834	ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR111
0.04265769	HUN_La_Tene:I18493
0.04369392	SRB_BA_Maros:I23209
0.04392344	Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:PRU001.A0101
0.04411479	SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23208
0.04424152	HRV_MBA:I4331
0.04424772	HRV_EIA:I26742
0.04430839	GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log02
0.04442846	HRV_EIA:I23904
0.04459924	ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o:RMPR437b
0.04462277	ITA_Tarquinia_EMA:TAQ022
0.04476954	Bell_Beaker_ITA:I1979
0.04499078	SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11722
0.04534405	HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ40
0.04568674	HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ36
0.04606025	ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance:RMPR969

Him with some Balkan samples, Myceneans are rather far.. Also clearly Proto-Illyrians/Delmatians etc also not as close.

Distance to:	HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
0.03718422	UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12
0.04051750	SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11721
0.04070183	Scythian_MDA:scy192
0.04072761	BGR_IA:I5769
0.04116147	HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
0.04442846	HRV_EIA:I23904
0.04770942	Scythian_MDA:scy300
0.04918639	Scythian_MDA:scy197
0.05042316	Scythian_HUNA198
0.05482127	HRV_IA:I3313
0.05523634	HRV_EIA:I23995
0.05619440	Scythian_MDA:scy305
0.06167173	HRV_EIA:I23996
0.06182606	HRV_EIA:I23911
0.06667336	HRV_EIA:I24638
0.07131512	GRC_Mycenaean:I9033
0.07647551	GRC_Mycenaean:I9010

His modelling with these:
Target: HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
Distance: 2.1463% / 0.02146333
39.4 UKR_Cimmerian_o
18.2 BGR_IA
17.8 HRV_EIA
15.4 GRC_Mycenaean
9.2 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup

This to you means he has "nothing to do with MJ12"???

He is not as Southern as you are portraying him to be. He carries an ultra Scythian mtDNA, most likely he is a recent migrant from Hungarian Scythian areas. Such profiles were alot more common in those areas also.

Do not want to chip in on the analysis part. But I do believe the _o on G25 means outlier. So that should be telling. Only chipping in since I18832 is among my closest matches.

Edit: For reference:



This is why basing analyses on outliers can be tricky. Without knowing the naming convention for G25 one could make a point of Cimmerians being Illyrian/Roman.