Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 30 of 30

Thread: E-V13 clades spreading with the Vekerzug Scythians

  1. #26
    Regular Member Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-11-19
    Posts
    1,716

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: Albania



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Scythian Borat Sagdiyev on a horseback.



  2. #27
    Regular Member Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-11-19
    Posts
    1,716

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    I know of that sample, but still even if some V13 made it to there, they were in great minority. No, this Vekerzug sample had too much of Scythian gear with him to be a local, plus females with a Southeastern profile had more of it. Like the whole Vekerzug culture they came from the East, hat is an Eastern culture. Locals were definitely two R-L51 guys with a local Unrfield profile and without Scythian gear.

    Plus as I've said this La Tene Gyor sample was from another earlier Vekerzug site very nearby. He had most of Scythian auDNA. And ofc this other La Tene "Southerner" is autosomally well modelled with DA198 and MJ12, plus he carried a Scythian MtDNA, so he likely came from the direction of DA198 and recently. And most definitely not from "Greece" (or as Bruzmi tried to make him and all of V13 related to Illyrian Dalmatians), there were surely very Southern people in and around Carpathians, who likely were J2a heavy.

    Already it seems apparent V13 was involved with these Pannonian-Carpathian Scythians. Was it involved with earlier groups, yes.
    Your interpretations can be paralleled with that of Bruzmi, completely impossible for that sample to be modelled as Scythian-like and MJ12 Thraco-Cimmerian-like. I mean 0% possibility, i checked his autosomal and did quite balanced regional Chalcolithic/EBA components, and he doesn't score anything related to that area, he looks a recent immigrant from Southern Balkans within the context of Late Iron Age.

  3. #28
    Banned
    Join Date
    04-03-18
    Posts
    661

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-A24070
    MtDNA haplogroup
    I1a1a

    Ethnic group
    Bædzænæg
    Country: Bosnia & Herzegovina



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Your interpretations can be paralleled with that of Bruzmi, completely impossible for that sample to be modelled as Scythian-like and MJ12 Thraco-Cimmerian-like. I mean 0% possibility, i checked his autosomal and did quite balanced regional Chalcolithic/EBA components, and he doesn't score anything related to that area, he looks a recent immigrant from Southern Balkans within the context of Late Iron Age.
    That degenerate seems to suffer from a pronounced cognitive dissonance disorder. Don't follow in his footsteps..

    Who cares about Chalcolithic type auDNA which didn't exist in IA anymore?? Those should be used only when here are no IA samples..

    Our V13, with more than 5200 samples on G25, MJ12 comes as 3rd closest to him. J2b2 La Tene 2nd, V13 Geto-Scythian 5th, Vekerzug sample 4th. IA Bulgarian 5th...
    Distance to: HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
    0.02942434 HRV_Pop_CA:POP39
    0.03473345 HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I4998
    0.03718422 UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12
    0.04051750 SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11721
    0.04070183 Scythian_MDA:scy192
    0.04072761 BGR_IA:I5769
    0.04078411 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ43
    0.04116147 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
    0.04208370 ITA_Daunian:ORD009
    0.04227834 ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR111
    0.04265769 HUN_La_Tene:I18493
    0.04369392 SRB_BA_Maros:I23209
    0.04392344 Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:PRU001.A0101
    0.04411479 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23208
    0.04424152 HRV_MBA:I4331
    0.04424772 HRV_EIA:I26742
    0.04430839 GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log02
    0.04442846 HRV_EIA:I23904
    0.04459924 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o:RMPR437b
    0.04462277 ITA_Tarquinia_EMA:TAQ022
    0.04476954 Bell_Beaker_ITA:I1979
    0.04499078 SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11722
    0.04534405 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ40
    0.04568674 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ36
    0.04606025 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance:RMPR969

    Him with some Balkan samples, Myceneans are rather far.. Also clearly Proto-Illyrians/Delmatians etc also not as close.
    Distance to: HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
    0.03718422 UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12
    0.04051750 SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11721
    0.04070183 Scythian_MDA:scy192
    0.04072761 BGR_IA:I5769
    0.04116147 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
    0.04442846 HRV_EIA:I23904
    0.04770942 Scythian_MDA:scy300
    0.04918639 Scythian_MDA:scy197
    0.05042316 Scythian_HUNA198
    0.05482127 HRV_IA:I3313
    0.05523634 HRV_EIA:I23995
    0.05619440 Scythian_MDA:scy305
    0.06167173 HRV_EIA:I23996
    0.06182606 HRV_EIA:I23911
    0.06667336 HRV_EIA:I24638
    0.07131512 GRC_Mycenaean:I9033
    0.07647551 GRC_Mycenaean:I9010

    His modelling with these:
    Target: HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
    Distance: 2.1463% / 0.02146333
    39.4 UKR_Cimmerian_o
    18.2 BGR_IA
    17.8 HRV_EIA
    15.4 GRC_Mycenaean
    9.2 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup

    This to you means he has "nothing to do with MJ12"???

    He is not as Southern as you are portraying him to be. He carries an ultra Scythian mtDNA, most likely he is a recent migrant from Hungarian Scythian areas. Such profiles were alot more common in those areas also.

  4. #29
    Regular Member Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-11-19
    Posts
    1,716

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: Albania



    The point still stands, it looks to me that E-V13 intruded into Carpathian mountain during MBA from somewhere else. I still stand to my original opinion that it came from further west than Carpathians.

  5. #30
    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-06-18
    Posts
    1,469

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283/J-Y197198

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    That degenerate seems to suffer from a pronounced cognitive dissonance disorder. Don't follow in his footsteps..

    Who cares about Chalcolithic type auDNA which didn't exist in IA anymore?? Those should be used only when here are no IA samples..

    Our V13, with more than 5200 samples on G25, MJ12 comes as 3rd closest to him. J2b2 La Tene 2nd, V13 Geto-Scythian 5th, Vekerzug sample 4th. IA Bulgarian 5th...
    Distance to: HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
    0.02942434 HRV_Pop_CA:POP39
    0.03473345 HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I4998
    0.03718422 UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12
    0.04051750 SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11721
    0.04070183 Scythian_MDA:scy192
    0.04072761 BGR_IA:I5769
    0.04078411 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ43
    0.04116147 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
    0.04208370 ITA_Daunian:ORD009
    0.04227834 ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR111
    0.04265769 HUN_La_Tene:I18493
    0.04369392 SRB_BA_Maros:I23209
    0.04392344 Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:PRU001.A0101
    0.04411479 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23208
    0.04424152 HRV_MBA:I4331
    0.04424772 HRV_EIA:I26742
    0.04430839 GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log02
    0.04442846 HRV_EIA:I23904
    0.04459924 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o:RMPR437b
    0.04462277 ITA_Tarquinia_EMA:TAQ022
    0.04476954 Bell_Beaker_ITA:I1979
    0.04499078 SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11722
    0.04534405 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ40
    0.04568674 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ36
    0.04606025 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance:RMPR969

    Him with some Balkan samples, Myceneans are rather far.. Also clearly Proto-Illyrians/Delmatians etc also not as close.
    Distance to: HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
    0.03718422 UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12
    0.04051750 SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11721
    0.04070183 Scythian_MDA:scy192
    0.04072761 BGR_IA:I5769
    0.04116147 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
    0.04442846 HRV_EIA:I23904
    0.04770942 Scythian_MDA:scy300
    0.04918639 Scythian_MDA:scy197
    0.05042316 Scythian_HUNA198
    0.05482127 HRV_IA:I3313
    0.05523634 HRV_EIA:I23995
    0.05619440 Scythian_MDA:scy305
    0.06167173 HRV_EIA:I23996
    0.06182606 HRV_EIA:I23911
    0.06667336 HRV_EIA:I24638
    0.07131512 GRC_Mycenaean:I9033
    0.07647551 GRC_Mycenaean:I9010

    His modelling with these:
    Target: HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
    Distance: 2.1463% / 0.02146333
    39.4 UKR_Cimmerian_o
    18.2 BGR_IA
    17.8 HRV_EIA
    15.4 GRC_Mycenaean
    9.2 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup

    This to you means he has "nothing to do with MJ12"???

    He is not as Southern as you are portraying him to be. He carries an ultra Scythian mtDNA, most likely he is a recent migrant from Hungarian Scythian areas. Such profiles were alot more common in those areas also.
    Do not want to chip in on the analysis part. But I do believe the _o on G25 means outlier. So that should be telling. Only chipping in since I18832 is among my closest matches.

    Edit: For reference:



    This is why basing analyses on outliers can be tricky. Without knowing the naming convention for G25 one could make a point of Cimmerians being Illyrian/Roman.
    “Man cannot live without a permanent trust in something indestructible in himself, and at the same time that indestructible something as well as his trust in it may remain permanently concealed from him.”

    Franz Kafka

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •