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Thread: Southern Illyrians & Mycenean Greeks on a PCA plot

  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Target: Albanian_Montenegro
    Distance: 628.0296% / 6.28029572
    73.2 Italian_Tuscany
    26.8 Polish_South


    Target: Albanian_Macedonia
    Distance: 819.6674% / 8.19667388
    83.6 Italian_Tuscany
    16.4 Polish_South


    Target: Albanian_Kosovo
    Distance: 666.5453% / 6.66545269
    82.4 Italian_Tuscany
    17.6 Polish_South


    Target: Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite
    Distance: 682.5687% / 6.82568678
    100.0 Italian_Tuscany


    Target: Albanian_South_Albania
    Distance: 832.7333% / 8.32733295
    92.2 Italian_Tuscany
    7.8 Polish_South


    Target: Albanian_Central_Albania
    Distance: 821.3798% / 8.21379757
    96.2 Italian_Tuscany
    3.8 Polish_South



    Target: Albanian_North_Albania
    Distance: 797.5859% / 7.97585871
    84.0 Italian_Tuscany
    16.0 Polish_South


    The "fits" and distances are all very off, your results are totally inaccurate, because the Albanians are part of the Balkan cluster, not the Italian cluster. The distance in a two-way model is of fundamental importance. Otherwise, doing the opposite of you, I could model Tuscans as if Tuscans were Albanians with some Belgian, English or whatever ancestor. Moreover, with far better fits than yours.


    Target: Italian_Tuscany
    Distance: 2.5682% / 0.02568225
    86.0 Albanian
    14.0 BelgianC


    Target: Italian_Tuscany
    Distance: 2.2056% / 0.02205580
    76.2 Albanian
    15.8 French_Bearn
    8.0 French_Provence



    Target: Italian_Tuscany
    Distance: 2.2698% / 0.02269837
    68.6 Albanian
    31.4 French_Provence

    Target: Italian_Tuscany
    Distance: 2.6603% / 0.02660280
    92.4 Albanian
    7.6 English_Cornwall

    With the Greeks, not surprisingly, the Albanians improve fit and distances.



    Target: Albanian:ALB230
    Distance: 2.1749% / 0.02174892
    36.8 Greek_North_Tsakonia
    28.6 Greek_Arcadia
    17.6 Greek_Macedonia
    17.0 Polish
    Target: Albanian:ALB220
    Distance: 2.5650% / 0.02565026
    81.6 Greek_Corinthia
    9.6 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    4.6 Greek_Izmir
    4.2 Polish
    Target: Albanian:ALB213
    Distance: 2.1059% / 0.02105851
    40.0 Greek_Corinthia
    27.4 Greek_Arcadia
    14.8 Polish
    8.2 Greek_Thessaly
    5.0 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    4.6 Greek_South_Tsakonia
    Target: Albanian:ALB212
    Distance: 2.4994% / 0.02499420
    53.6 Greek_Messenia
    26.8 Greek_Macedonia
    19.6 Greek_Argolis
    Target: Albanian:ALB202
    Distance: 1.7753% / 0.01775333
    49.0 Greek_Argolis
    26.0 Greek_Macedonia
    14.2 Polish
    5.6 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    5.2 Greek_Trabzon
    Target: Albanian:ALB191
    Distance: 2.4030% / 0.02402976
    52.0 Greek_Arcadia
    33.8 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    14.2 Polish
    Target: Albanian:AL98
    Distance: 2.7595% / 0.02759511
    48.0 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    43.6 Greek_Corinthia
    8.4 Greek_Izmir
    Target: Albanian:AL9
    Distance: 2.2279% / 0.02227851
    54.4 Greek_Thessaly
    38.8 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    4.4 Polish
    2.4 Greek_Izmir
    Target: Albanian:AL82
    Distance: 1.8462% / 0.01846230
    66.8 Greek_Macedonia
    15.0 Greek_North_Tsakonia
    10.6 Polish
    7.6 Greek_Thessaly
    Target: Albanian:AL29
    Distance: 1.4327% / 0.01432730
    72.6 Greek_Corinthia
    24.6 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    2.8 Greek_Thessaly
    Target: Albanian:AL17
    Distance: 2.2233% / 0.02223268
    33.4 Greek_Messenia
    28.2 Greek_North_Tsakonia
    25.0 Greek_Macedonia
    13.4 Greek_Arcadia
    Target: Albanian:AL12
    Distance: 3.3226% / 0.03322619
    82.8 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    17.2 Greek_Corinthia






    Using "Macedonian", a south Slavic source, in place of "Polish".


    Target: Albanian:ALB230
    Distance: 2.2943% / 0.02294323
    84.6 Greek_Macedonia
    15.4 Macedonian


    Target: Albanian:ALB220
    Distance: 2.5710% / 0.02571026
    63.8 Greek_Corinthia
    36.2 Greek_Central_Macedonia


    Target: Albanian:ALB213
    Distance: 2.1974% / 0.02197376
    56.6 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    14.4 Greek_Macedonia
    12.6 Macedonian
    8.4 Greek_Arcadia
    8.0 Greek_Thessaly


    Target: Albanian:ALB212
    Distance: 2.4994% / 0.02499420
    53.6 Greek_Messenia
    26.8 Greek_Macedonia
    19.6 Greek_Argolis


    Target: Albanian:ALB202
    Distance: 1.7947% / 0.01794739
    39.2 Greek_Macedonia
    34.8 Macedonian
    18.6 Greek_Argolis
    5.4 Greek_Trabzon
    2.0 Greek_Central_Macedonia


    Target: Albanian:ALB191
    Distance: 2.3554% / 0.02355419
    50.2 Greek_Arcadia
    49.8 Macedonian


    Target: Albanian:AL98
    Distance: 2.7595% / 0.02759511
    48.0 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    43.6 Greek_Corinthia
    8.4 Greek_Izmir


    Target: Albanian:AL9
    Distance: 2.2527% / 0.02252746
    49.2 Greek_Thessaly
    45.2 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    5.6 Macedonian


    Target: Albanian:AL82
    Distance: 1.9862% / 0.01986151
    89.6 Greek_Macedonia
    10.4 Macedonian


    Target: Albanian:AL29
    Distance: 1.4077% / 0.01407719
    89.2 Greek_Corinthia
    10.8 Macedonian


    Target: Albanian:AL17
    Distance: 2.2233% / 0.02223268
    33.4 Greek_Messenia
    28.2 Greek_North_Tsakonia
    25.0 Greek_Macedonia
    13.4 Greek_Arcadia


    Target: Albanian:AL12
    Distance: 3.3226% / 0.03322619
    82.8 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    17.2 Greek_Corinthia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Do people honestly think, that David Reich, the foremost expert in population genetics knows less about what he is talking about than pseudonym laymen more than likely with less experience and education in the topic? You think you have a better command and understanding than the head of the lab that produced more than half the papers in archeogenetics? Honestly some of you people are starting to remind of antivaxxers who need to "do their own research" on the covid vaccine inspite of overwhelming data and proven effectiveness. Can we at least wait until the man speaks and presents the data to back his claims before becoming so impassioned?
    He definitely knows less about the cultures he is talking about. That's something he confessed himself, because about many archaeological problems, he simply has no clue. He also confessed, coming out of his own mouth, that he tries to please the majority views of the Western archaeologists community, which being just oriented on the "pots not people" and "ethnicity doesn't matter" with "routes of communication" interpretation.
    That's not his expertise and he honestly doesn't really care. He once said that he could relieve the archaeologists involved by stating that "it is not Corded Ware", because German archaeologists still have a problem with Corded Ware. Yet we know by now, that it was indeed Corded Ware which brought up most of the IE cultures.

    This background of him means he largely tries to please the archaeologist collaborateurs, which, in the West, largely go for the mentioned ideological interpretation in this time.

    But all of that doesn't matter, because what really matters is the data his lab creates. And for having a solid base, we need to test the most important cultures. Like talking about the formation of the steppe ancestry, you can't miss the Lower Don cultural groups, and if you want to know something about PIE in Anatolia, and a potential route from the Balkans, we need samples from Cernavoda and Troy.
    Probably his team has created these results, with really sufficient sampling, and he knows more than all of us and can definitely interpret things on the next level. But that's kind of the precondition. He doesn't know more per se, not at all, especially if talking about the archaeological background. He can just verify or falsify archaeological hypotheses which float around for a pretty long time. But only with sufficient sampling of the right sites and cultures.

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    Less than who, you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Do people honestly think, that David Reich, the foremost expert in population genetics knows less about what he is talking about than pseudonym laymen more than likely with less experience and education in the topic? You think you have a better command and understanding than the head of the lab that produced more than half the papers in archeogenetics? Honestly some of you people are starting to remind of antivaxxers who need to "do their own research" on the covid vaccine inspite of overwhelming data and proven effectiveness. Can we at least wait until the man speaks and presents the data to back his claims before becoming so impassioned?
    These 'vaxs' had some efficacity to limit worst effects of Covid, not to limit seriously contamination, and cannot be named true 'vaccines' because they need to be taken every three or four months. Reality stays some times somewhere between radical opposed opinions, and not always in the official propheties nor in the nightmares of some "boiled heads"...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Less than who, you?
    Such a debate doesn't matter. Either his team has sufficient sampling of crucial sites or not.

    And I know some stuff much better than he does, you can hear it out when he's talking, he has to rely on what other people prepared for him. But of course, I rely on what the real big experts on the matter wrote too. We're talking about different views and interpretations within the true archaeological expert community. Even if one point of view might be dominant now, that doesn't mean its right or wrong, there are other perspectives floating around and the only way to really decide who's right and who's wrong is by testing the ancient DNA.

    Like take the GAC group: Many people, me included, wouldn't have thought that the GAC people had practically zero steppe admixture. Because culturally, while clearly distinct, they were among the closest people to Corded Ware pottery. Even their physical type while smaller and more Mediterranean was not fundamentally different. So coming from the classical archaeological and anthropological perspective, they could have been somewhat intermediary, but turns out they were not, initially, but completely different people genetically, strictly separated ethnicities.
    That came as a surprise to me and many others. It is something only genetics can tell us, because there is no way to be sure.

    This is what Reich and the other labs should provide, such evidence for ethnicities, migrations, social interaction and roles, family structures, individual mobilty and marriage patterns etc., etc. They are not the experts on archaeology, but they provide the additional evidence to decide debates of which some are going on for hundreds of years and others for decades at least.

    Like the Channelled Ware phenomenon or the Anatolian IE speakers being hotly debated among experts for quite some time, ever since these phenomena were detected. Now its up to ancient DNA results to decide the debates, who was wrong, who was right. But for doing so you need to take the right samples.

    Take for example the early concentration of the research on Khvalynsk: Many archaeologists hold up the view that this steppe group being a dead end branch, a fringe group from Lower Don/Sredny Stog, which mixed with locals and later largely disappeared. But since the teams of Reich & Co. followed the interpretation of other authors, which had a different opinion on the matter, they took a lot of Khvalynsk samples.

    That wasn't wrong to do, but it just turned out what one half of the researchers had told us all along: It's a dead end, mixed fringe group.

    Similarly, they had missed out the most important groups in Anatolia and at the Lower Don and Sea of Azow, also because there are not that many testable remains in the first place (soil and burial rite). But if you want to decide the debate, you need to have samples from those and not from anywhere else. That's just like it is. If you want to know who came into the Pontic steppe and brought new impulses to the region, presumably from the South, presumably with a lot of CHG ancestry, then you have to test sites like R. yar. If you want to know whether a Balkan route for Proto-Anatolian is a viable theory, you need Cernavoda and related Balkan groups with Western steppe influence and the sites arond Troy.

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    Why doesn't it matter? Also who are you to establish the criteria?

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    "I know stuff better than he does"

    I doubt that.

    Also the appeal to authority fallousy would actually be accurate to use if he attempted to pretend he was an expert in something he isn't. That's why he defers to experts in that field. This is interdisciplinary. It is not some guy on the internet pretending to know what he's talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    These 'vaxs' had some efficacity to limit worst effects of Covid, not to limit seriously contamination, and cannot be named true 'vaccines' because they need to be taken every three or four months. Reality stays some times somewhere between radical opposed opinions, and not always in the official propheties nor in the nightmares of some "boiled heads"...
    Show me the universal medical definition of a vaccine from a reputable source.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Why doesn't it matter? Also who are you to establish the criteria?
    What a question. Everybody which can add 2 +2 and knows a bit about the archaeological context has to come to the same conclusion or can't think straight. Its just that Reich & Co. tried to test every other hypothesis first, it seems to me, because they wanted "something else" to be true. Either that or really a lack of proper samples to test.
    Doesn't matter, if he doesn't have those results from Cernavoda and related Balkan steppe groups and their proxies in Western Anatolia, especially around Troy, he is talking without data. It doesn't matter what the rest of Anatolia shows, because everything coming from the West could have been watered down so heavily, it won't be big any more.
    Crucial is the entering point.

    But if you don't like to listen to me, probably you listen to Anthony? Or do you think Anthony doesn't know archaeology better than David Reich? Everybody can make mistakes, can be wrong, at times, but Anthony is surely more to trust on the archaeological perspective than Reich. And that's simply because he is no educated expert on the matter to begin with.



    From: https://books.google.de/books?id=DHnEDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=de#v= onepage&q&f=false

    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    "I know stuff better than he does"
    I doubt that.
    Also the appeal to authority fallousy would actually be accurate to use if he attempted to pretend he was an expert in something he isn't. That's why he defers to experts in that field. This is interdisciplinary. It is not some guy on the internet pretending to know what he's talking about.
    The problem is that in the majority of Western Univeristies the anti-migrationist idiocy became established since the 1960's. Those people don't want other results to appear than those they preached for decades. There is a minority of migrationists holding out there, more so in Eastern Europe than the West, and they look quite different on the same things.

    Like I said, the "pots not people" fallacy is a huge problem in this field. Obviously, material culture doesn't always equate ethnicity, but whole packages do, more often than not. And even if there are exceptions in which the link doesn't hold, statistically its absolutely clear and they being refuted. Obviously they don't want to take yet another blow and always try to water all the results down with their interpretations. DNA is in these matters largely irrefutable. So the data matters most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    What a question. Everybody which can add 2 +2 and knows a bit about the archaeological context has to come to the same conclusion or can't think straight. Its just that Reich & Co. tried to test every other hypothesis first, it seems to me, because they wanted "something else" to be true. Either that or really a lack of proper samples to test.
    Doesn't matter, if he doesn't have those results from Cernavoda and related Balkan steppe groups and their proxies in Western Anatolia, especially around Troy, he is talking without data. It doesn't matter what the rest of Anatolia shows, because everything coming from the West could have been watered down so heavily, it won't be big any more.
    Crucial is the entering point.

    But if you don't like to listen to me, probably you listen to Anthony? Or do you think Anthony doesn't know archaeology better than David Reich? Everybody can make mistakes, can be wrong, at times, but Anthony is surely more to trust on the archaeological perspective than Reich. And that's simply because he is no educated expert on the matter to begin with.



    From: https://books.google.de/books?id=DHn...page&q&f=false
    David Anthony agrees with David Reich now, actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    David Anthony agrees with David Reich now, actually.
    We'll see on which grounds.

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    He is probably deferring to the expert opinion, who analyzed the data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    He is probably deferring to the expert opinion, who analyzed the data.
    I considered a fairly late entry of a significant part of the CHG ancestry with Neolithic package elements likely, based in the research at the Lower Don and Sea of Azow. However, that doesn't take away the local forager patrilineages and cultural influences, nor does it mean that Anatolian can't have taken the Balkan route.
    And after the Lower Don cultural formations, thete was no significant Southern, non-Carpatho-Balkan influence on the steppe other than Maikop.
    And their influences didn't reach far enough or replace the local lineages established by then.

    So what kind of surprises should he have in his sleeves? I bet its rather lack of sampling still, but if he can prove the unlikely twist, I have no troubles with the factual truth.
    Its just that missing data is no sufficient evidence.

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    As I’ve said before, pots are art and creative art influences neighbouring regions and further. Let’s focus on solid facts like yDNA and auDNA otherwise we’ll never agree.

    About the models using Tuscany, modern Tuscans appear by coincidence to be the closest to IA Illyrians. The problem there stands with Polish_South because it doesn’t represent Slavic input but rather a Slavo-Daco-Celto-Scytho-Germanic input.

    We know how the migration period brought many populations from the Carpathians and Pannonia down to the Balkans, either fleeing or joined the migrating/pillaging/invading tribes, which increased the pseudo-Slavic input in the Balkans.

    And we know that there are Albanians (my family members included) who are genetically an “Illyrian relic” and not touched by the Northern Balkan and North East European admixture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Show me the universal medical definition of a vaccine from a reputable source.
    I have not that at hand! but the current vaccines for diseases close to this kind of virus are for the most supposed to be valuable for one year; for other diseases, their validity goes even very farther. When our governments "selled" these precise vaccines to us, they did not tell us we should have to took them again and again.
    By the way, I do not deny some value to them concerning hard forms of the disease, the most often concerning people with weak health. But their usefulness to prevent the transmisson of Covid is still to be proved, and the vaccine pass established by some states is a scandale.
    I want not pollute this very thread; the general point was just that official/received science is not always God 's word, without I would participate in the present debate, because I have not yet read every post and I'm short about the concerned archeology.
    I have to learn more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idontknowwhatimdoing View Post
    Bruh on qpAdm and on G25 Albanians literally shift towards Anatolia/Armenia by 10-20%. Cypriots also cluster with many Jews by coincidence on PCA, according to your logic Cypriots are either 100% Jews or Jews are 100% Cypriot. There seems to be a lot of people online that think clustering with someone on PCA from 2-3000 years ago means high ancestry from them.
    If PCA shows overlap and you have Y-DNA to anchor your PCA to ancient Dna samples chances are you are related. But feel free to diverge in whatever scenarios that make you happy


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    @Jovialis

    I suppose you can easily read French:
    here under a rather light but traditionally accepted definition of vaccination:
    Administration d'un vaccin ayant pour effet de conférer une immunité active, spécifique d'une maladie, rendant l'organisme réfractaire à cette maladie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Something I find interesting is the fact that many Albanians also share my same haplogroup group which goes back to the EBA. Perhaps brought in with the Yamnaya migration into the Balkans?
    What haplo do you have?


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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    What haplo do you have?


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    R1b-PF7562, it's quite low in percentage among Albanians but overall Albanians have the highest of this Y-DNA subclade among others. Interesting indeed, and i do agree, it came with Yamnaya likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    @Jovialis
    I suppose you can easily read French:
    here under a rather light but traditionally accepted definition of vaccination:
    Administration d'un vaccin ayant pour effet de conférer une immunité active, spécifique d'une maladie, rendant l'organisme réfractaire à cette maladie.
    My wife reads French, so I had her translate it for me to not mess up the interpretation.
    CDC shows mRNA vaccine are a type of vaccine. I don't see why it makes a difference if it is traditional or not. I'm triple vaxxed with pfizer nobody I know had any of the lunatic side effects like infertility. People had healthy babies in the interm. Besides diseases mutate, as covid has, as things like the flu have. At any rate, it is not about the word of God. Is about trusting in expert opinion of people that are professionals in a field. Not all are infallible, hence the need for concensus of experts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    R1b-PF7562, it's quite low in percentage among Albanians but overall Albanians have the highest of this Y-DNA subclade among others. Interesting indeed, and i do agree, it came with Yamnaya likely.
    Thanks,

    What I meant was of the people who get it are mostly Albanians. Though some Italians too.

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    1,130


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    The "fits" and distances are all very off, your results are totally inaccurate, because the Albanians are part of the Balkan cluster, not the Italian cluster. The distance in a two-way model is of fundamental importance. Otherwise, doing the opposite of you, I could model Tuscans as if Tuscans were Albanians with some Belgian, English or whatever ancestor. Moreover, with far better fits than yours.


    Target: Italian_Tuscany
    Distance: 2.5682% / 0.02568225
    86.0 Albanian
    14.0 BelgianC


    Target: Italian_Tuscany
    Distance: 2.2056% / 0.02205580
    76.2 Albanian
    15.8 French_Bearn
    8.0 French_Provence



    Target: Italian_Tuscany
    Distance: 2.2698% / 0.02269837
    68.6 Albanian
    31.4 French_Provence

    Target: Italian_Tuscany
    Distance: 2.6603% / 0.02660280
    92.4 Albanian
    7.6 English_Cornwall

    With the Greeks, not surprisingly, the Albanians improve fit and distances.



    Target: Albanian:ALB230
    Distance: 2.1749% / 0.02174892
    36.8 Greek_North_Tsakonia
    28.6 Greek_Arcadia
    17.6 Greek_Macedonia
    17.0 Polish
    Target: Albanian:ALB220
    Distance: 2.5650% / 0.02565026
    81.6 Greek_Corinthia
    9.6 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    4.6 Greek_Izmir
    4.2 Polish
    Target: Albanian:ALB213
    Distance: 2.1059% / 0.02105851
    40.0 Greek_Corinthia
    27.4 Greek_Arcadia
    14.8 Polish
    8.2 Greek_Thessaly
    5.0 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    4.6 Greek_South_Tsakonia
    Target: Albanian:ALB212
    Distance: 2.4994% / 0.02499420
    53.6 Greek_Messenia
    26.8 Greek_Macedonia
    19.6 Greek_Argolis
    Target: Albanian:ALB202
    Distance: 1.7753% / 0.01775333
    49.0 Greek_Argolis
    26.0 Greek_Macedonia
    14.2 Polish
    5.6 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    5.2 Greek_Trabzon
    Target: Albanian:ALB191
    Distance: 2.4030% / 0.02402976
    52.0 Greek_Arcadia
    33.8 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    14.2 Polish
    Target: Albanian:AL98
    Distance: 2.7595% / 0.02759511
    48.0 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    43.6 Greek_Corinthia
    8.4 Greek_Izmir
    Target: Albanian:AL9
    Distance: 2.2279% / 0.02227851
    54.4 Greek_Thessaly
    38.8 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    4.4 Polish
    2.4 Greek_Izmir
    Target: Albanian:AL82
    Distance: 1.8462% / 0.01846230
    66.8 Greek_Macedonia
    15.0 Greek_North_Tsakonia
    10.6 Polish
    7.6 Greek_Thessaly
    Target: Albanian:AL29
    Distance: 1.4327% / 0.01432730
    72.6 Greek_Corinthia
    24.6 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    2.8 Greek_Thessaly
    Target: Albanian:AL17
    Distance: 2.2233% / 0.02223268
    33.4 Greek_Messenia
    28.2 Greek_North_Tsakonia
    25.0 Greek_Macedonia
    13.4 Greek_Arcadia
    Target: Albanian:AL12
    Distance: 3.3226% / 0.03322619
    82.8 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    17.2 Greek_Corinthia






    Using "Macedonian", a south Slavic source, in place of "Polish".


    Target: Albanian:ALB230
    Distance: 2.2943% / 0.02294323
    84.6 Greek_Macedonia
    15.4 Macedonian


    Target: Albanian:ALB220
    Distance: 2.5710% / 0.02571026
    63.8 Greek_Corinthia
    36.2 Greek_Central_Macedonia


    Target: Albanian:ALB213
    Distance: 2.1974% / 0.02197376
    56.6 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    14.4 Greek_Macedonia
    12.6 Macedonian
    8.4 Greek_Arcadia
    8.0 Greek_Thessaly


    Target: Albanian:ALB212
    Distance: 2.4994% / 0.02499420
    53.6 Greek_Messenia
    26.8 Greek_Macedonia
    19.6 Greek_Argolis


    Target: Albanian:ALB202
    Distance: 1.7947% / 0.01794739
    39.2 Greek_Macedonia
    34.8 Macedonian
    18.6 Greek_Argolis
    5.4 Greek_Trabzon
    2.0 Greek_Central_Macedonia


    Target: Albanian:ALB191
    Distance: 2.3554% / 0.02355419
    50.2 Greek_Arcadia
    49.8 Macedonian


    Target: Albanian:AL98
    Distance: 2.7595% / 0.02759511
    48.0 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    43.6 Greek_Corinthia
    8.4 Greek_Izmir


    Target: Albanian:AL9
    Distance: 2.2527% / 0.02252746
    49.2 Greek_Thessaly
    45.2 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    5.6 Macedonian


    Target: Albanian:AL82
    Distance: 1.9862% / 0.01986151
    89.6 Greek_Macedonia
    10.4 Macedonian


    Target: Albanian:AL29
    Distance: 1.4077% / 0.01407719
    89.2 Greek_Corinthia
    10.8 Macedonian


    Target: Albanian:AL17
    Distance: 2.2233% / 0.02223268
    33.4 Greek_Messenia
    28.2 Greek_North_Tsakonia
    25.0 Greek_Macedonia
    13.4 Greek_Arcadia


    Target: Albanian:AL12
    Distance: 3.3226% / 0.03322619
    82.8 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    17.2 Greek_Corinthia
    Iron Age samples from Albania seem to overlap with Modern Tuscans. I see that the fit is not the best, it was just a experiment.

  23. #348
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    7,222

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    It could be that they occupy different spaces on the Z-axis of a 3D PCA than the 2D PCA would lead us to believe perhaps.

  24. #349
    Regular Member blevins13's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-10-16
    Location
    Tirana
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,047

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-Z2103>BY611
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7i1

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    R1b-PF7562, it's quite low in percentage among Albanians but overall Albanians have the highest of this Y-DNA subclade among others. Interesting indeed, and i do agree, it came with Yamnaya likely.
    Yes probably one of the first waves.


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

  25. #350
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-12-21
    Posts
    504

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Dushman View Post
    But IA Albania and IA Croatia are very homogeneous groups compared to IA Bulgaria and IA Macedonia.

    As I’ve told you many times, you need to find a new name for your personal Illyrians. Illyrians are in Albania. Proto-Illyrians might have been only the ones in Croatia.
    The guy is outright pathological at this point. He straight up wants to change the definitions of words because it doesn't suit him.

    This has nothing to do with science anymore. He just doesn't want to admit that Albanians are descendants of Illyrians.

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