G25 Your G25 distances for ancient and modern

Archetype0ne said:
tDNbJKs.png


Imagine that. Put both Ancient G25 Individual and Modern G25 Individual. And still the oldest L283 in the Balkans shows up in my closest samples, from ancient and moderns. If anyone was to comment on this I know what they would say, and I know my retort to it, but that's besides the point.

Ps. I have noticed a lot among Italians and Greeks, there is this thinking that Albanians are similar to South Italians, or that South Albanians are closer to Greeks than North Albanians. Time and time again I have heard this in various fora, and even other mediums. That is very wrong. Everytime I see samples and analyze them Albanians if anything have similar autosomal to Tuscans/Piedmontese samples, strangely in multiple calculators even Swiss Italians. While at the same time South Albanians do not have a closer affinity to Greeks than North Albanians. If anything even Kosovars on multiple calculators have among the closest matches Mainland Greeks. Am not sure where and why such false narratives took hold, but maybe due to Geography or phenotype based stereotypes?

Edit:
Disclaimer: Found out after some analysis that I23208 is not the L283, the L283 is in fact MOK15.
rJtrNm8.png

Since I am going out for a drink and a quick search did not yield l23208's Haplogroup, maybe I will edit it in later.
Click to expand...

Very trivially: people superficially look at where Albania is geographically located, and since it's so close to Puglia they think their respective peoples also occupy similar genetic positions. But it's one of those cases where latitude travels on its own in relation to DNA (perhaps in Antiquity there were more similarities...). We have also understood how certain forums and discussions on the web work, where delirium reigns supreme, without ever a shred of will to document and reason
:wary2:​


Southern Italy has a very important ancient/Hellenistic and perhaps even more archaic 'Greek' contribution that attracts it quite significantly towards the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean, a presence that fades and diminishes a lot as you go north along the Peninsula.


Something similar happens to the Balkans, but in its continental belts there is clearly not the same massive classical Greek presence as in Southern Italy - I don't think it is even remotely comparable as a demographic phenomenon - and furthermore I'm now quite convinced that the pre-Slavic Paleobalkan DNA probably proceeds from the same predecessor nucleus from which some Italic or proto-Italic groups would have originated, whose genetic signal seems to have been better preserved in northern/central Italy.


Hence this genetic similarity, offset with respect to geographical latitude :)
 
Archetype0ne said:
I don't think he said that. He just meant before the push west, millennia ago pre pre-Proto-IE J was around that area. I am not sure though whether J was part of the farming stock. IIRC Minoans were G2a which would have been the farmer stock. Can't recall if there was J2a among them. But certainly Myceneans were a mix of G2a and J2a. J2a I suspect being the Mycenean marker, likely of IE herder stock. I could be wrong have not researched this in a long while.
Click to expand...

If i remember it correctly, J2a was the most frequent Minoan Y-DNA followed by G2a.

edit: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34414-Genetic-Origins-of-Minoans-and-Mycenaeans
 
Stuvanè said:
Very trivially: people superficially look at where Albania is geographically located, and since it's so close to Puglia they think their respective peoples also occupy similar genetic positions. But it's one of those cases where latitude travels on its own in relation to DNA (perhaps in Antiquity there were more similarities...). We have also understood how certain forums and discussions on the web work, where delirium reigns supreme, without ever a shred of will to document and reason
:wary2:​


Southern Italy has a very important ancient/Hellenistic and perhaps even more archaic 'Greek' contribution that attracts it quite significantly towards the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean, a presence that fades and diminishes a lot as you go north along the Peninsula.


Something similar happens to the Balkans, but in its continental belts there is clearly not the same massive classical Greek presence as in Southern Italy - I don't think it is even remotely comparable as a demographic phenomenon - and furthermore I'm now quite convinced that the pre-Slavic Paleobalkan DNA probably proceeds from the same predecessor nucleus from which some Italic or proto-Italic groups would have originated, whose genetic signal seems to have been better preserved in northern/central Italy.


Hence this genetic similarity, offset with respect to geographical latitude :)
Click to expand...

Fully agree on everything Stuvane.
Sadly it seems lately members are using anthrofora as a place to vent, and slay their imaginary dragons. Luckily there is cool tempered and rational members like yourself and others voicing reason, to make it worth staying around.
 
Ancient
Distance to:Russki_scaled
0.02524177Russia_Sunghir_Medieval.SG
0.02530526Hungary_IA_LaTene_o3
0.02723999Kazakhstan_GoldenHordeEuro.SG
0.02827977Poland_Viking.SG
0.03052332Russia_Viking_o.SG
0.03449597Ukraine_Medieval.SG
0.03706595Hungary_Avar_5
0.03990550Estonia_IA.SG
0.04040048Czech_Medieval
0.04541178Estonia_Medieval.SG
0.04561011Montenegro_IA
0.04595375Serbia_Viminacium_Roman_elite_1.SG
0.04598779Sweden_Viking_o1.SG
0.04623627Ukraine_Viking_o.SG
0.04644451Hungary_EIA_o3
0.04737816Serbia_Sirmium_Ottoman.SG
0.04792295Russia_Viking.SG
0.04848519Sweden_Viking_o2.SG
0.04887301Hungary_MBA_Fuzesabony
0.04989847Poland_CordedWare_1.SG
0.05046324Turkey_Byzantine_oEuropean
0.05089562BosniaHerzegovina_Medieval
0.05190381Russia_IA_Ingria.SG
0.05197992Sweden_Viking.SG
0.05210013Lithuania_BA


Modern
Distance to:Russki_scaled
0.01717721Russian_Moscow
0.01843051Russian_Kaluga
0.01881641Russian_Kursk
0.01985052Russian_Voronezh
0.02059989Russian_Samara
0.02080155Russian_TverKashin
0.02106676Russian_Tver
0.02145618Russian_Voronezh_North
0.02148957Russian_Pskov
0.02155340Russian_NizhnyNovgorod
0.02172497Russian_Orel
0.02191795Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02242255Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.02258540Russian_Ryazan
0.02282848Russian_RyazanSpassk
0.02309735Russian_Yaroslavl
0.02323446Lithuanian_PA
0.02331811Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.02343125Russian_Smolensk
0.02346335Cossack_Ukrainian_Zaporizhzhia
0.02359791Belarusian
0.02371610Russian_Novgorod
0.02393057Lithuanian_VA
0.02415221Ukrainian_Poltava
0.02426400Russian_RyazanMikhailov
 
Ancient:

Individual:

Distance to:qh777_MH_scaled
0.02324527England_MIA_LIA:I21310
0.02436840Sweden_Viking.SG:VK403_noUDG.SG
0.02475856England_MIA:I19907
0.02505189England_EIA:I27383
0.02510944Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:SH-106.SG
0.02530637England_MIA_LIA:I21312
0.02532761England_MIA:I14860
0.02556613England_Saxon.SG:HAD001.SG
0.02582419England_EastYorkshire_LIA:I22062
0.02589083England_LBA:I14379
0.02592869England_MIA:I19912
0.02610044England_LIA:I12927
0.02638494England_EIA:I27382
0.02643360England_EastYorkshire_EIA:I11033
0.02655770England_MIA:I3014
0.02658078Germany_Schleswig_Saxon_LMedieval:SWG006.A_noUDG
0.02681602England_MIA:I11156
0.02695373England_MIA:I13730
0.02704576England_EarlyMedieval_Saxon:I0161
0.02709746England_MBA:I19857
0.02715168England_MIA:I14551
0.02725099England_Saxon:HAD018_noUDG
0.02746669England_EastYorkshire_MIA_LIA:I14105
0.02747566Germany_Schleswig_Saxon_LMedieval:SWG012.A
0.02772296England_MIA_LIA:I11991
0.02775635France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity.SG:R11560.SG
0.02786326England_MIA:I17016
0.02791980England_MIA_LIA:I21311
0.02796655Ireland_Kilteasheen_AngloSaxon_EMedieval_Norman:KIL025.B_noUDG
0.02798252Ireland_Viking.SG:VK545_noUDG.SG
0.02798704England_MIA_LIA:I21271
0.02804181Czech_IA_LaTene:I16273
0.02814043England_MIA:I14380
0.02820668England_EastYorkshire_LIA:I22057
0.02823883England_IA_ERoman.SG:I0156.SG
0.02826014Sweden_Viking.SG:VK402_noUDG.SG
0.02836157Germany_AltInden_Saxon_EMedieval:IND007.A_noUDG
0.02840145England_MIA_LIA:I16457
0.02844914Germany_Schleswig_Saxon_LMedieval:SWG001.A
0.02853648England_MIA_LIA:I11994
0.02862839Sweden_Viking.SG:VK353_noUDG.SG
0.02878150England_IA:I16441
0.02881151Netherlands_Groningen_Saxon_Medieval:GRO012.A
0.02895783England_EarlyMedieval_Saxon:I0791
0.02897357Iceland_Pre_Christian.SG:SBT-A-1_38_noUDG.SG
0.02908722England_MIA:I19044
0.02909710Netherlands_Groningen_Saxon_Medieval:GRO004.A_noUDG
0.02913026England_MIA:I20582
0.02915766England_MIA_LIA:I20622
0.02923224Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:pLE-38.SG


Averaged:

Distance to:qh777_MH_scaled
0.02257965England_MIA
0.02318756England_EastYorkshire_MIA_LIA
0.02359761England_MIA_LIA
0.02422620England_LBA
0.02469174Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1
0.02523071England_EIA
0.02548759Ireland_Kilteasheen_AngloSaxon_EMedieval_Norman
0.02571324Netherlands_Groningen_Saxon_Medieval_oAfrica1
0.02643360England_EastYorkshire_EIA
0.02643390Germany_Schleswig_Saxon_LMedieval
0.02656781England_LIA
0.02670090England_EastYorkshire_MIA
0.02680003Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval
0.02682672France_EBA_BellBeaker
0.02717505England_EastYorkshire_LIA
0.02746149Czech_IA_LaTene
0.02747814France_GrandEst_EBA.SG
0.02750984England_IA
0.02763617Germany_Lech_BellBeaker
0.02783021England_EarlyMedieval
0.02823883England_IA_ERoman.SG
0.02839590Germany_BellBeaker
0.02920043Germany_SouthernGermany_Singen_EBA
0.02928580Hungary_Langobard
0.02943563Germany_Lech_EBA
0.02955542England_C_EBA_highEEF
0.02959636Austria_Klosterneuburg_Roman.SG
0.03000438Scotland_Viking_o.SG
0.03003306England_IA.SG
0.03003981Netherlands_Groningen_Saxon_Medieval
0.03004248England_BellBeaker_highEEF
0.03016170England_Viking_o.SG
0.03017338Denmark_Viking.SG
0.03024530England_LIA_o
0.03026003Scotland_Viking.SG
0.03026058Hungary_Langobard.SG
0.03080104England_IA_EarlyMedieval
0.03099088Italy_PalazzoDellaCancelleria_Medieval_oEurope.SG
0.03138214Czech_BellBeaker
0.03167320Croatia_Metz_GalloRoman.SG
0.03169059England_MBA_highEEF
0.03183580France_GrandEst_IA2
0.03200815Faroes_EarlyModern.SG
0.03202701Denmark_Viking_o1.SG
0.03218998England_IA_Roman.SG
0.03219911Italy_LA_o2CentralEuropean.SG
0.03225307Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval
0.03236986Netherlands_Friesland_Saxon_Medieval_oEastMed.SG
0.03248465France_LesMarmousets_ProtoMerovingien_possible.SG
0.03252828Netherlands_MIA_LIA

Modern:

Individual:

Distance to:qh777_MH_scaled
0.02153143Welsh:WalesBK68
0.02159194French_Brittany:Rennes_B_16
0.02167312English_Cornwall:HG00255
0.02264562French_Brittany:Rennes_B_46
0.02267627English:England9
0.02326510English_Cornwall:HG00264
0.02339429English:HG01791
0.02396348BelgianB:5434289058_R04C01
0.02401035Dutch:GSM1634041
0.02409048Welsh:WalesCHF63
0.02411820French_Paris:1_2
0.02414557French_Brittany:Rennes_B_48
0.02431648Welsh:WalesL40
0.02444383English_Cornwall:HG00243
0.02455990Afrikaner:AFR053
0.02477076French_Brittany:Rennes_B_95
0.02484337English:English4
0.02493401French_Brittany:Rennes_B_23
0.02508719French_Brittany:Rennes_B_12
0.02521546Dutch:GSM1633936
0.02522873Irish:Irish12
0.02566260French_Nord:N_19
0.02580656English_Cornwall:HG00236
0.02581786BelgianA:5434289001_R03C02
0.02587661Irish:Irish11
0.02594144Welsh:WalesDR56
0.02600732Welsh:WalesL86
0.02635367English_Cornwall:HG00259
0.02643607Scottish:Scottish27
0.02649460English:English5
0.02650533French_Brittany:Rennes_B_82
0.02666004English:England12
0.02677397Dutch:GSM1633949
0.02686427French_Brittany:Rennes_B_14
0.02689305Dutch:GSM1634004
0.02691712Dutch:GSM566785
0.02710437Danish:GSM1985821
0.02715578Dutch:GSM1633993
0.02716136Scottish:Scottish24
0.02728034French_Brittany:Rennes_B_32
0.02734481French_Brittany:Rennes_B_85
0.02740476French_Brittany:Rennes_B_27
0.02750090Welsh:WalesL44
0.02755182French_Brittany:Rennes_B_44
0.02757096Welsh:WalesCHF13
0.02764354French_Brittany:Rennes_B_61
0.02775202French_Brittany:French24090
0.02799027French_Brittany:Rennes_B_4
0.02799710Welsh:WAL004
0.02807214Welsh:WalesBK58

Averaged:

Distance to:qh777_MH_scaled
0.01940879French_Brittany
0.02213471Welsh
0.02339358English
0.02360098English_Cornwall
0.02477684BelgianB
0.02492619Scottish
0.02517874Irish
0.02535049Dutch
0.02669027French_Pas-de-Calais
0.02693167Orcadian
0.02717800BelgianA
0.02755057French_Paris
0.02763310French_Nord
0.02839583BelgianC
0.02916226Shetlandic
0.03024865Afrikaner
0.03106963German
0.03238463French_Alsace
0.03291652Danish
0.03331826Norwegian
0.03351340Swiss_German
0.03383758French_Seine-Maritime
0.03471979Icelandic
0.03819234German_Erlangen
0.03869916French_Occitanie
0.04153220German_Hamburg
0.04227526French_Auvergne
0.04275854Austrian
0.04368190Swiss_French
0.04521969Swedish
0.04896461Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04898447French_Provence
0.05129563German_East
0.05347735Spanish_Penedes
0.05394420Hungarian
0.05434263Basque_Araba
0.05477751Spanish_Girona
0.05584426Czech
0.05617922Spanish_Biscay
0.05640573Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.05655129Spanish_Lleida
0.05684122Spanish_Barcelones
0.05748350Spanish_Aragon_North
0.05761393Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.05771476French_Chalosse
0.05812889Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.05853337Spanish_Soria
0.05870516Spanish_Mallorca
0.05887714Spanish_Cataluna
0.05900413French_South
 
Distance to:Javen_scaled
0.04899860South_China_Neolithic_Farmer_CHN_Liangdao2_N
0.10675264Southeast_Asia_Neolithic_Farmer_VNM_N
0.20363045Japan_Jomon_Hunter-Gatherer_JPN_Jomon
0.21512395North_China_Neolithic_Farmer_CHN_Boshan_N
0.21872941Tibetan_Plateau_Late_Neolithic_NPL_Chokhopani_2700BP
0.26402447Amur_Basin_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.30159975Southeast_Asia_Hoabinhian_Hunter-Gatherer_LAO_Hoabinhian
0.40259908Siberia_Uralic-like_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.40619868Holocene_Beringian_RUS_Old_Bering_Ekven
0.47394183Indus__Valley_Civilization_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I8728
0.52560868Australian_Aborigine_AUS_Willandra_Lakes_4000BP
0.54778634West_Siberia_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Tyumen_HG
0.57568273Amerindian_BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
0.57908072Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.58965092Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.60327655Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
0.61231201Papuan-Melanesian_VUT_2300BP_all
0.61337567Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
0.63275262Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
0.64619638Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
0.65720728Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
0.66516052Baltics_Narva_Hunter-Gatherer_Baltic_LTU_Narva
0.69381427West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
0.74093415East_Africa_Hunter_Gatherer_ETH_4500BP
0.75161777Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

This thread has been viewed 8696 times.

Back
Top