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Thread: Are we on the brink of World War III?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    It would take a nuclear strike to take us there.
    You are already there.....not formal but certainly involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    I prefer a Pax Americana, it has given (West) Europeans peace and prosperity.
    And no I don't follow eery trend that flows from the US to Europe, on the contrary.
    But in matters on democracy vs authoritarian rule I give them the benefit (of the doubt).
    The problem is that the USA are not getting more free and democratic any more, but rather the contrary. We approach authoritarian and totalitarian rule in the USA as well. It's just the methods which are still somewhat different at the moment. Its more about social and economic destruction of dissent, but the prisons and camps might follow at any point.

    One of the crucial aspects is always free speech and thought, as well as how much choice individuals have concerning family and property. The new digital era initially brought more freedom for the people, but the oligarchy didn't like what free people thought and did, so they began to censor things. As they saw its easy to do and the resistance is weak, the establishment extended the censor & control project to more and more areas.

    Take for example the Chinese experiments with a social credit system: They will come, they are already in preparation or local experimental stage in the West as well. Just the "values" and "goals" are sometimes different in detail, but the general principle and the idea of making people more obedient is just the same. We're approaching no more free world anywhere, its rather about other decisions which divide the regimes, but sometimes its not even that, but just the respective oligarchies competing with each other for power, wealth, people and resources.

    I never said I would prefer the Russian approach to many things for Europe, that's beside the point.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    The problem is that the USA are not getting more free and democratic any more, but rather the contrary. We approach authoritarian and totalitarian rule in the USA as well. It's just the methods which are still somewhat different at the moment. Its more about social and economic destruction of dissent, but the prisons and camps might follow at any point.

    One of the crucial aspects is always free speech and thought, as well as how much choice individuals have concerning family and property. The new digital era initially brought more freedom for the people, but the oligarchy didn't like what free people thought and did, so they began to censor things. As they saw its easy to do and the resistance is weak, the establishment extended the censor & control project to more and more areas.

    Take for example the Chinese experiments with a social credit system: They will come, they are already in preparation or local experimental stage in the West as well. Just the "values" and "goals" are sometimes different in detail, but the general principle and the idea of making people more obedient is just the same. We're approaching no more free world anywhere, its rather about other decisions which divide the regimes, but sometimes its not even that, but just the respective oligarchies competing with each other for power, wealth, people and resources.

    I never said I would prefer the Russian approach to many things for Europe, that's beside the point.
    Well apples and oranges, of course you can discuss about big tech etc etc. But really there is a difference between the totalitarian absolute authoritarian way of the Putin regime and China and what is going on in the US (without call them saints) or Europe. Sense of proportion Riverman!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Well apples and oranges, of course you can discuss about big tech etc etc. But really there is a difference between the totalitarian absolute authoritarian way of the Putin regime and China and what is going on in the US (without call them saints) or Europe. Sense of proportion Riverman!
    I agree, but that's beside the point. The real problem is that if the US establishment gets even more dominant globally, they won't get any better. So what I want is kind of a balance of power and alternatives on some aspects. It's about Europe being and getting more independent and making its own choices, as well as the USA reconsidering its current path, rather than exchanging one hegemon with another.
    This war being led by the US establishment under false premises and with the goal of a regime change, to just enlarge its power and control system globally. That's the problem. China is, potentially, a future threat, Russia is only a threat within its direct sphere of influence, unless its using its ABC arsenal. The USA-UK on the other hand are in control of things and use their power in a malicious way (too). Its not in Europe's interest if their oligarchy gets even stronger and Russia destroyed.
    It was, if talking about China, even a mistake for the US-UK club to alienate Russia as they did. Because this pushed Russia into the arms of China. This gamble only pays off for the Western oligarchs if Russia being brought to its knees and can be overtaken by them, and this is where it gets really dangerous, because they invest too much into the military victory of Ukraine, for that very reason. And this can lead to the worst case scenario, which is a global escalation and World War, potentially with weapons of mass destruction.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I agree, but that's beside the point. The real problem is that if the US establishment gets even more dominant globally, they won't get any better. So what I want is kind of a balance of power and alternatives on some aspects. It's about Europe being and getting more independent and making its own choices, as well as the USA reconsidering its current path, rather than exchanging one hegemon with another.
    This war being led by the US establishment under false premises and with the goal of a regime change, to just enlarge its power and control system globally. That's the problem. China is, potentially, a future threat, Russia is only a threat within its direct sphere of influence, unless its using its ABC arsenal. The USA-UK on the other hand are in control of things and use their power in a malicious way (too). Its not in Europe's interest if their oligarchy gets even stronger and Russia destroyed.
    It was, if talking about China, even a mistake for the US-UK club to alienate Russia as they did. Because this pushed Russia into the arms of China. This gamble only pays off for the Western oligarchs if Russia being brought to its knees and can be overtaken by them, and this is where it gets really dangerous, because they invest too much into the military victory of Ukraine, for that very reason. And this can lead to the worst case scenario, which is a global escalation and World War, potentially with weapons of mass destruction.
    First of all, you can put everything upside down but the decision to invade was basically an act of Putin! No one else....And if ypu have read his "essay" from aug 2021 it was just a matter of time.

    Give evidence that the US provoked and that the goal of the US is regime change...I see nothing of that whatsoever.

    The real problem is more the decline of the US power than the upheaval.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    The real problem is more the decline of the US power than the upheaval.
    That's true in a way, but the problem behind it is that the US establishment tries to transition to a new mode of control which will allow it to survive and even profit from the bank and money crisis, as well as the new digital world and its opportunities. To achieve that, they went into "aggressive" mode both internally and externally, which provoked things. The reason is they now feel the pressure to prepare and finish things in time. That's pretty much contrary to the Chinese, which are kind of laid-back in comparison, because they are in no hurry. This kind of hurry and timing stress for the Western oligarchy causes a lot of these troubles. The expansion and manipulation in Ukraine was part of that.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I agree, but that's beside the point. The real problem is that if the US establishment gets even more dominant globally, they won't get any better. So what I want is kind of a balance of power and alternatives on some aspects. It's about Europe being and getting more independent and making its own choices, as well as the USA reconsidering its current path, rather than exchanging one hegemon with another.
    This war being led by the US establishment under false premises and with the goal of a regime change, to just enlarge its power and control system globally. That's the problem. China is, potentially, a future threat, Russia is only a threat within its direct sphere of influence, unless its using its ABC arsenal. The USA-UK on the other hand are in control of things and use their power in a malicious way (too). Its not in Europe's interest if their oligarchy gets even stronger and Russia destroyed.
    It was, if talking about China, even a mistake for the US-UK club to alienate Russia as they did. Because this pushed Russia into the arms of China. This gamble only pays off for the Western oligarchs if Russia being brought to its knees and can be overtaken by them, and this is where it gets really dangerous, because they invest too much into the military victory of Ukraine, for that very reason. And this can lead to the worst case scenario, which is a global escalation and World War, potentially with weapons of mass destruction.
    Everything you have said on this topic in this thread has been correct with the exception of China even being a potential threat. They are not a threat to us (the real people not the U.S. controlled leadership classes). Their civilization is land based, static. And their sphere of influence doesn't overlap with ours at all. The Chinese just want healthy trade and development, and if you have respect for their people and culture, all the better. We've had a good working relationship on these grounds since the days of the Romans. On top of all of that: the Chinese are just plain, civilized people much like our own: There's not a lot of crime or violence committed in China or among their diasporas, and their TFR is too low to actively expand anywhere in great numbers.

    China is not a theat. At all. Neither is Russia unless you actively prod it and try to annex parts of its civilization (Ukraine/Belarus) or finance Islamic terrorists along its border regions (Chechnya) like the U.S. has done for decades.

    Everyone with common sense should understand that the actual existential threat to us are the imperialistic and utterly insane Anglo-Saxons, alongside their pets and partners in crime in the Islamic world: Turkey, Saudi Arabia and CIA-backed Islamist groups. These are the peoples who actually work towards not only our destruction but that of human civilization from the west to east and south, using the economic/political/social media/NGO/human rights nexus.

    So let us hope that Russia wins this war and deposes the coup regime in Kiev, China eclipses the U.S. as soon as possible, and more unaligned countries begin to emerge. Then we can return to the historical norm, which is the multipolar world order, where all peoples, cultures and civilizations can exist and do as they please irrespective of what the American neurotics think.

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