Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

[EV13SON]

That is true it should not be a forced upon ideal, I assume it is human nature to look after your own self interest first and or those you deeply care for. Philanthropy comes from Greek meaning love of humanity so you need to at least reach a point where you have to have a love for greater humanity, easier said than done...

Bringing it back to the Russo-Ukraine conflict, I've heard they have begun talking again, so lets hope peace is brokered soon...

[Tomenable]

Is this true / confirmed?:

[Northener]

This is the issue I find that people on the left have, you look at the world in a normative perspective, what should be. People on the right look at it from a positive perspective i.e, seeing and accepting reality for what it is (save for the religious right). How do you facilitate this ideal? You can't unless you use coercion. So unless you're willing to force people, it is really just fantasy. Even if you are willing to force people, you will fail, i.e USSR.

Related to the topic we see from Putin one big how it should be 'the mystic unification of Rus in cradle Kyiv', 'restore of good old cazristic Russia' ('make Russia great again') and 'liberation of the Ukrainian peope' (denazification and end of the genocide). One big how it should be.

So now, you have people on the left who think they're champions of democracy, that think everyone who doesn't think like them has illegitimate views.

Yes the moderate left (in Europe, where I belong to) is pro liberal-democracy, but that is in essence tolerate other views.....See for example on this forum do I agree with Riverman: no, do I think he has illegitimate views: no. And we stay in debat, without ad hominem, that's imo the core of democracy.

[Vallicanus]

Putin is even running off to get Chinese "help" and utilising Muslim mercenaries.

[Riverman]

Putin is even running off to get Chinese "help" and utilising Muslim mercenaries.

The Chechen fight on both sides almost since 2014, like other muslim volunteers and mercenaries do, nothing that new. Most of the Chechen fighters on the Ukrainian side are more akin to the Islamic state and Salafist islamists, while Kadyrow is a conservative Chechen muslim, politically speaking, but no extreme Islamist and not brainwashed by the Saudi teachers like most of the Chechen terrorists and volunteers for the Islamic state were.
The Chechen are like the European extreme right, split on the issue, which means they fight on both sides. Now its just the official Chechen forces and support. Serbs might help too, as do some Syrian allies, of which not all might be Muslim to begin with and a whole range of other nations - on both sides.

How Big Tech American companies censor and manipulate the world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Kttb1WaJE

[Riverman]

Bit of topic. Sure she is beautiful. But my associations are a lot different, bit too much Bund Deutscher Mädel, https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bund_D...M-Mädchen.jpg

That is being unjust and doing her terribly short and is purely based on the association I have on the basis of appearance.....

The Ukrainian regime tries to reach out to different factions which might be helpful, from very Liberal, to left extremists, to the European very far right and Salafist Islamists. Obviously, establishing an old anti-Bolshevik, anti-Russian narrative is helpful too, especially for the latter.
Everyone in contact with Bolshevik forces in World War II did suffer, even so called freed people in Poland and Czechia had their "experiences" occasionally, directly during and shortly after the war ended. I myself have lost a lot of family members to the war in the East and the Soviets coming in. But the situation is now completely different from then. Yet, these kind of feelings and history can be exploited and being exploited by the Ukrainian war propaganda, just like both sides call each other "Fascist" and what not. Its kind of funny how the labels got completely freed from their original meaning, like Israelis and Palestinians too call each other "Nazis" in their respective propaganda sometimes.

[Silesian]

For history students, three news events that have something in common, with Ukraine.



Old times.


Really old times.

[Silesian]

Bit off topic, but are the children(under 18?) mentioned in the BBC news from all over Europe, like Austria, Netherlands, Poland etc...?

Sending a child into a war is wrong.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60724560
War in Ukraine: Uni to uniform - Ukraine's new teenage army recruits

The Pandora papers have not been banned from Youtube?
Some are getting a beautiful wife, mistress, golden parachute and or offshore accounts and mansions?

[Angela]

Please be wary of conspiracy theories, folks, especially if you're prone to believing them.

There's propaganda and propaganda. When it's too bizarre to be believed, don't believe it.

[Northener]

Bit off topic, but are the children(under 18?) mentioned in the BBC news from all over Europe, like Austria, Netherlands, Poland etc...?

Sending a child into a war is wrong.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60724560
War in Ukraine: Uni to uniform - Ukraine's new teenage army recruits

By no means this is encouraged in the countries you mentioned. Take this compared with what Riverman has mentioned about cracks from Chechen.....then those boys are cannon fodder.

[Vallicanus]

The Chechen fight on both sides almost since 2014, like other muslim volunteers and mercenaries do, nothing that new. Most of the Chechen fighters on the Ukrainian side are more akin to the Islamic state and Salafist islamists, while Kadyrow is a conservative Chechen muslim, politically speaking, but no extreme Islamist and not brainwashed by the Saudi teachers like most of the Chechen terrorists and volunteers for the Islamic state were.
The Chechen are like the European extreme right, split on the issue, which means they fight on both sides. Now its just the official Chechen forces and support. Serbs might help too, as do some Syrian allies, of which not all might be Muslim to begin with and a whole range of other nations - on both sides.

How Big Tech American companies censor and manipulate the world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Kttb1WaJE

Whatever.

Putin will soon be the lapdog of the Chinese.

[Northener]

That's
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Dreyden

Its from the movie "Der Untergang", about Hitlers last days in Berlin 1945. She was born Elena Vladimirovna Zelenskaya.

That's his wife: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olena_Selenska

So my intuition was right Riverman....indeed lots of frames in the world now

[Riverman]

So my intuition was right Riverman....indeed lots of frames in the world now

They have both the same name, but one was born and changed later, the other was born different and adopted it through marriage with the comedian and current Ukrainian president. It can happen by just doing just a quick Google search without double checking.

[Riverman]

By the way, I predict an upcoming alliance against the anti-Russian American policy, led by the Biden administration. For two reasons:
1st the economic
2nd every nation, even those which are absolutely not allied with Russia, know, that if the the US Biden regime can break Russia, with its policy of first weaponising Ukraine, then cracking down on Russia, they can take out everyone else as well. The Americans being already engaged in a lot of invasions, wars and embargos in the last years. In comparison, Trump was one of the more peaceful presidents, but Biden immediately started to interfering more in foreign affairs of other countries.

And its simple: Most people know that Russians stance is rather defensive and it can't overreach. Its resources are limited and they won't, in the next decades, be able to threaten or invade any country as they want. Even if the anti-Russian propaganda paints them as aggressive and like they want to take Europe, that's all nonsense. So they will rather side with Russia, to not let it down and get destroyed, rather than with America, which is the much bigger threat to their sovereignty and economic independence.
At first, the USA managed to blackmail a lot of states, which were indeed in shock that Putin really attacked the whole of Ukraine, which even I wouldn't have believed just some weeks ago, that they would do it right from the start. I thought its possible, but it was definitely not my most likely scenario. But after some weeks, when the economic damage kicks in and it becomes more and more clear to all the states how the USA acted in the preliminary events leading to this war, by backing up Selenski and weaponising Ukraine aggressively, while not trying to profit big time and bringing Russia down with this conflict, they will all slowly but steadily switch sides and the US will lose the control over the international community.

That's an option if Russia succeeds quickly in particular, which is therefore an absolute necessity and explains why they have to use the whole arsenal to lift those two plugs in Kharkiv and Mariupol. Once that happened, and the big pincer movement starts to annihilate the main Ukrainian forces of the Donbas front, it will all go pretty quickly. I just hope the Americans are not trigger-happy and come to senses, by pushing Selenski to take peace negotiations more seriously.
Because Russia won't give in, especially they won't ever give up on Crimea. The 2nd World War started with Danzig, there is no reason to the start the 3rd World War over Crimea, which case is even more clear, since the Russians control it since years and the population is decisively pro-Russian.

The Russians just demand a neutral Ukraine, and that they get Crimea for sure, Donbas if they can. Along these lines peace can be made, if the Western states promise guarantees for the neutral Ukraine and lift the sanctions on Russia. Anything else is out of question under normal circumstances and the whole war being provoked, started and continued despite of knowing all of this and despite knowing that Russia has its case, especially after the purge and persecutions of pro-Russian citizens started by the Selenski regime.
The only other way Ukraine get out of this is by Russia collapsing under the war efforts, soldiers revolt or a palace revolution. But any Russian doing so would be a national traitor and backstabber, because Russia won't recover from a defeat that easily, the war, once started, as bad as it was, became too important to be lost.

And talking about diplomacy and peace negotiations: The above mentioned outlines were always clear, to anybody. Ukraine just knew it and wanted to change the facts on the ground by arming up and annihilating the Don republics. Cutting the water supply of Crimea was also an incredible move. To dry out a whole country the size of Crimea, to exert pressure on the Russians. Or the constant attacks on Donbas. What did they think they are doing, other than starting an even bigger war?

Back to the negotiations table and get reasonable, accountable people again. That's true for both sides.

[Silesian]

Please be ware of conspiracy theories, folks, especially if you're prone to believing them.

There's propaganda and propaganda. When it's too bizarre to be believed, don't believe it

A bit off topic again, but youtube weeds out propaganda videos. That's why I find this video still on youtube with 300000+ views, about the Nazi's connection so interesting. I always wondered about the help the Nazis got. Maybe Edwin Black was right? Is this the same IBM, an American company?

IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation is a book by investigative journalist and historian Edwin Black which documents the strategic technology services rendered by American-based multinational corporation International Business Machines (IBM) and its German and other European subsidiaries for the Nazi government of Adolf Hitler from the beginning of the Third Reich in January 1933 through the last day of the regime in May 1945 at the end of World War II.

[Riverman]

Amazing, only the Indians show how objective journalism works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Kttb1WaJE

They are not whitewashing Russia, but they also look at whats wrong with the USA and the Selenski regime. Comparing that with CNN, it might look more professional, because of their experience and the money put into it, but its all nothing but one sided propaganda and the intellectual level is that of a kindergarten. It kind of shows where the US are standing now, because in the past, I had way more respect for the CNN & Co. That's gone altogether and all the censorship and manipulation can only brainwash the Western countries. The rest of the world won't be kept in line and phased like the USA wants it any longer. With that war, it will be gone completely, because every observer can see how subjective and partisan the Western corporate media became. Its as ridiculous as Russian state propaganda is (which is worse, granted). You can take something out of it, but the trust is gone completely. And they wonder and blame "fake news"! They are the fake news agencies themselves.

[Silesian]

^^
so much hate, more videos, about Nazis and Russians, not banned by youtube. Does history keep repeating?



Modern day hate against people.

[Angela]

Are there actually people here who can't recognize Russian propaganda? It's always so heavy handed that it's ludicrous. That was 80 years ago, people. Virtually no one living in these countries now was alive then. Are they going to be smeared for what their grandparents and great-grandparents did?

Plus, in every place in Eastern Europe where the Germans took control there was collaboration, partly because of the rampant anti-Semitism in those countries, and partly because the Germans had no clue how to put together an empire; they were so brutal that they were universally detested. Even the Soviets seemed a better bet. Even in northeastern Poland there were Poles joining the SS, or at least fighting for the Germans.

It sort of makes a twisted sense in Eastern Europe since they considered Slavs sub-humans and planned to exterminate them as soon as they were finished with the Jews so that all that nice flat farmland could be given to Germans. Of course they didn't give their collaborators that information. If they had done so, the Latvians and Lithuanians might have been less eager to take jobs as concentration camp guards.

Made less sense in Western Europe, but leopards don't change their spots. To stop Northern Italians from helping the allies they brought in the SS battalions which had "cleaned up" the east. There are memorials to their atrocities in nearly every village in the Lunigiana, the Val Parma etc. Of course, they couldn't have done it without the help of home grown fascists, just as the Germans couldn't have so easily controlled France without collaborators; collaborators who never really paid the price, btwl. Instead, after the war it was, oh, my family were all in the resistance. Yeah, right.

[Riverman]

Elon Musk didn't lost his humour it seems:
https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/...-soldier-meme/
https://www.dnaindia.com/viral/repor...e-here-2939858

[ihype02]

Russia will start to starve in summer, you idiots. Keep making jokes and laughing.

[Riverman]

About the Western hypocrisy, this time in Canada, and how they can no longer talk about democratic principles if targeting others, as well as talking about the reasons of the war in Ukraine, by confusing cause (weaponising Ukraine and backing up an aggressive stance of the Selenski Regime by Biden) and effect (war in Ukraine):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiY83iWcbcA

Simulation of democracy is not democratic, especially not if shutting down everything which goes against the agenda of the establishment.

[Silesian]

Russia will start to starve in summer, you idiots. Keep making jokes and laughing.

There are many types of weapons of mass destruction that the US. was claiming the Iraqis had(so far no evidence). Can you understand that countries like Russian(Slavs) and Chinese want proof that their populations will not be attacked by genetic engineered-race specific biological weapons? China and Russia have every right to be on guard, especially since there has been so much talk about Covid being man made. Collecting biological samples in local areas and conducting experiments, sounds like something from the Nazi's.

[Silesian]

^^^^
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

The Iraq War^{[nb 1]} was a protracted armed conflict in Iraq from 2003 to 2011 that began with the invasion of Iraq by the United States–led coalition which overthrew the Iraqi government of Saddam Hussein. The conflict continued for much of the next decade as an insurgency emerged to oppose the coalition forces and the post-invasion Iraqi government.^[59] An estimated 151,000 to 1,033,000 Iraqis died in the first three to five years of conflict.

[EV13SON]

In reading these posts I can only be reminded of the Genesis song "Land of Confusion" definitely not enough love to go round...

[Silesian]

^^^^^

Biological torture and warfare was also against Slavs(Russians) and Chinese in China, by Unit 731, of whom many members were offered immunity by the United States.

According to A. S. Wells, the majority of victims were Chinese,^[29] with a lesser percentage being Russian, Mongolian, and Korean. They may also have included a small number of European, American, Indian, Australian, and New Zealander prisoners of war.^{[71][72][73][74]} A member of the Yokusan Sonendan paramilitary political youth branch, who worked for Unit 731, stated that not only were Chinese, Russians, and Koreans present, but also Americans, British, and French people.^[75]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731