Politics Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

[Northener]

Doublure……..

 

[Vallicanus]

I don't blame you or the Romanians for not liking Russia more often than not. Its the history of the region and you don't consider the bigger framework.

The only framework you care about is kissing Russia's feet.

 

[Vallicanus]

So, the extreme right is now aligned with a former KGB Communist autocrat because he's nationalistic, and passes anti-Woke legislation. How stupid can they be? His nationalism will ultimately mean he won't recognize "your" nationalism. In a world aligned with or subject to Putin, European countries would be as subjugated as when the authoritarianism was the authoritarianism of the left.

Sometimes I think everything has been turned on its head, and then I think, no, it was clearly there in the 20th century. Europe was the battlefield for two autocratic, anti-democratic, anti-free speech despots. In one, the means of production were left in the hands of the families which had taken control over time, and in the other they were controlled by party hacks. With the fall of the wall, oligarchs in Russia took control of them, ex KGB people, most of them, so the lines are even less blurred.

How many are really left in the middle, i.e. those who really believe in democracy, no matter how imperfect, and free speech for everyone. Very few, sadly, I'm starting to believe.

The extreme right are as thick as can be.

It is on the wrong side of history but like any cornered beast it is at its most desperate and dangerous.

 

[Riverman]

I know what people might say about him, but better listen to him, especially the 10-45 minutes, and you understand where the US policy headed with Russia and why the situation is as it is, as well as why it might be so dangerous to all of us:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ

 

[ihype02]

Reward Putin's aggression?

No way.

Ukrainian resistance has already damaged China's relationship with Russia. I hope they are able to push for as long as they can and see where it gets.

Besides that, I am pretty sure Putin will not approach another country soon thanks to Ukrainian resistance that took his time and caused quite a lot of damage to him.

 

[Flann Fina]

View attachment 13153


From Grozny to Kyiv


By PHILIP JENKINS


Some excerpts.


… Even so, there was no way a totally disillusioned and war-weary Russian people were going to go back to war under any circumstances whatever – or at least, unless and until Chechens carried out a hideous terrorist attack on Russian soil. That allegedly and reputedly happened in September 1999, when huge bombs blew up apartment buildings in the cities of Moscow, Buynaksk, and Volgodonsk, killing three hundred plus. Appalled, even moderate, Western-oriented, and liberal Russians were galvanized to face a new war, at whatever cost. Think of it as Russia’s equivalent to 9/11, an event that occurred two years afterward … To make a long story short, there may still be people who actually believe these Russian apartment bombings were not the work of the Russian security service, the FSB, recently headed by Vladimir Putin, but those folks also believe in the Easter Bunny. This is not to say that the Chechen guerrillas were anything other than savage terrorists, but they were not involved in this particular atrocity:


An independent public commission to investigate the bombings was chaired by Duma deputy Sergei Kovalev. The commission was rendered ineffective because of government refusal to respond to its inquiries. Two key members of the Kovalev Commission, Sergei Yushenkov and Yuri Shchekochikhin, have since died in apparent assassinations. The Commission’s lawyer and investigator Mikhail Trepashkin was arrested and served four years in prison for revealing state secrets.
And then there was the Litvinenko affair:
Former FSB agent Alexander Litvinenko, who defected and blamed the FSB for the bombings, was poisoned and killed in London in 2006 [using radiation poisoning]. A British inquiry later determined that Litvinenko’s murder was “probably” carried out with the approval of Putin and Patrushev.
Subsequent events have made the Putin connection to Litvinenko certain rather than probable. Beyond any reasonable doubt, the apartment bombings were a provocation and deception, a piece of maskirovka directed by Putin, and the ploy succeeded totally:



[…]


Russia now began that Second Chechen War, which culminated with a long and brutal siege and bombardment of Grozny. This Second Battle defies belief for its viciousness, and the ruthless cynicism of the Russians. This precedent is precisely what is in the mind of every Ukrainian today as they look at the prospects for Kyiv and Kharkiv. Note the targeting of civilian buildings, the cat and mouse playing with evacuation routes, and the simple savagery of the attackers, who created a nightmarish example for decades to come.


[…]




That is the nightmare facing Kyiv and Kharkiv. That is why they don’t trust the Russians for a second when they talk about truces, safe passage, and escape routes. Every word uttered by the Russian state and its armed forces should be assumed to be a lie, until proven otherwise.



https://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2022/03/from-grozny-to-kyiv/




Philip Jenkins is a professor of history at Baylor University in the United States, and co-director for Baylor's Program on Historical Studies of Religion in the Institute for Studies of Religion. He is also the Edwin Erle Sparks Professor of Humanities Emeritus at Pennsylvania State University.

 

[johen]

Ukrainian resistance has already damaged China's relationship with Russia. I hope they are able to push for as long as they can and see where it gets.

Besides that, I am pretty sure Putin will not approach another country soon thanks to Ukrainian resistance that took his time and caused quite a lot of damage to him.

\
How to damage their relationship? The china wants to overthrow western order. As soon as western tech companies exited Russia, chinese technology replaced them. Moreover Hyenas in china smell the meat in russian energy industry. So the US secretary of commerce warned it. Before the invasion the US needs Russia to overtake china as Henry visited china long time ago to collapse soviet Union.
I think the CCP knows very well they will be a next target after Russia. However they now have a key to stop russian killing in Ukraine.

 

[Riverman]

Let me explain what I think are the options, the alternative scenarios and why I do care.
- The best option is that Russia and Ukraine come to a fair compromise, and Ukraine let's Donbas and Crimea go, because the people living there don't want to be in an anti-Russian state, but rather be a part of Russia. That's just the will of the people on the ground there, as well as that of the Russians. The official state borders of the Ukraine don't change that and any reconquest by the Selenski regime would be just a tragedy for those people and Russians as a whole. That's being said regardless of Putin or other political issues.

- Another alternative is that Selenski doesn't give in, but Ukraine gets finally crushed by Russia and pacified. I don't know for how long, but let's just assume that is what happening and then a combination of exile and new Ukrainian government works out a pathway to reconciliation, eventually.

- Third option is that the Russian military crumbles, the soldiers don't want to fight any longer or there is a palace revolt against Putin at home. This would completely destabilise Russia, a power with its nuclear weapons, the political outcome would be fairly unpredictable on the short and the long run. Putin would be gone and probably the new regime would make peace with Russia. The Donbas and Crimea might be abandoned, horrible for them, but that's how it goes. It's not my favourite option, because I blame the US and Selenski for the escalation and I don't want to see chaos in Russia or the Donbas and Crimean being forced into a country they don't want to be part of. But, I'm not enough of a Russian supporter and surely not of Putin personally, to really care that much for his political future. If he's gone, he's gone. Let's hope it doesn't get to bloody and chaotic, nothing worse emerges from this, but that's an option. I wouldn't be happy about it, from the current perspective, because of the magnitude of potential consequences and uncertainties, but even with that, I would be ok.

- The fourth is by far the worst and its about Ukraine fighting on, the Russians also, no revolt of the soldiers, no palace revolution, just continued fighting and all the crap propaganda from the US based media networks in particular. The longer it goes, the further a political compromise slips away and the more bloodshed happens, the closer it gets to the borders of NATO states, the more likely becomes an incident which might cause an escalation, either deliberately or accidently, which involves NATO and Russian forces. And once they fight, publicly and officially, there are actual deaths on both sides, it might escalate to an unpredictable level, even to ABC/nuclear warfare.

And its this fourth scenario which I really do care about, much more than 1-3. I would prefer 1, because it would be the best solution for all sides, on the longer run, and guarantee, if it gets the support of the West as well, a more lasting peace in the region, I'm pretty sure about it. But there needs to be that kind of compromise which accepts the legitimate interests Russia claimed all the past years. But if that doesn't happen, we get lots and lots of more dead, crippled, traumatised people, destruction, economic catastrophy and so on and forth, but that's because these two parties can't properly negotiate with each other. And Russia made a good offer, from my point of view, so its mostly the Selenski regimes fault if this goes on.
My main concern really is for option four, I would prefer 1, but if its 2 or 3, so be it. I just don't want 4 to become real, for obvious reasons. And nobody here, which is still right in his head, should want version 4. Probably it goes like some say, Russia just backs up and its over, no great escalation, no nuclear war. But the sheer risk of it is too much. Just like I said about Putins Russia, they were right about it in principle, but the suffering and risks of the war are not worth it, and that's why its wrong from a humane and strategic perspective. The same applies to an NATO involvement: The potential risk is not worth it.

What this absolutely aggressive and one-sided propaganda from CNN & Co creates, is an atmosphere in which some people which are rather short sighted, trigger-happy and obvious risk takers by default might consider an incentive for actually promoting a next step escalation with full NATO interference. And that's where my biggest concerns are. Not whether Putin looks good or gets all he wants.
- The first concern is this, to prevent in any case the escalation to a nuclear war.
- The second is that the war ends as quickly as possible, with as few additional victims as possible. Whats the road to achieve that, this is what everybody should ask himself/herself.
- The third is that both the people of (Western) Ukraine and the ones in the Russian territories (Donbas, Crimea) can decide for themselves where they want to belong. I don't want to see either side being forced into a regime and suppression they don't like. Neither the Ukrainians, nor the (pro-) Russians and Crimeans. I don't get why people don't accept that simple truth: These people want to belong to Russia, Russia wants to have them, why are they not allowed to departure from an anti-Russian Ukrainian state which they don't like?
- Just as the fourth concern I'm talking about stability in Russia and how this is, would be better for Europe, potentially, because we don't know what would happen with a crumbled, revolutionary, destabilised Russia. I know who Putin is, he is not my favourite guy, but he seems to have been largely ok, everything considered, up to the point he decided to start this war. If we make peace, we can again live with him and its better than prolonged war with uncertain outcome. Eventually he will disappear anyway.

What I'm shocked the most about is the willingness to accept a potential nuclear war for this Selenski regime! That's just crazy! I can't think of anything which would be worth such a major exchange of ABC weapons, let alone this issue in the Ukraine. Selenski can make peace tomorrow, if he wants to. Its his and Putins decision to drag this on.

 

[Jovialis]

PERVERSE Mongolian apologist for putin's agenda! Nobody cares about you? Go somewhere else!

You go else where, you don't have the license to make ethnic slurs, and insults, under the guise of "righteous indignation".

Too much of that kind of behavior is allowed to going on nowadays, I'll be damned if I am going to let it happen here.

Mongolian!? I know what you're implying with that.

Also, it is obvious you're that person who spams us. I already knew it from day 1, so you're not that slick.

 

[Northener]

@Riverman, I guess even 4b is most likely, south and east along the border en black sea will be in control by the Russians. But the population in parts of it still resist. Kyiv is a long and hard battle because that's a big city that is chamber for chamber fighting. The Russians have a bad moral, they have no idea were they are fighting for. But surrender is no option so they will upscale in means so dumb power. The Grozny and Syria scenario's.


That means lots of casualties among the ordinary people. See Mariupol and the child hospital and that on and on and on. Is that fake news? Or framed? No it is the bitter reality. A big humanitarian crisis. Biggest in Europe since ww2.

What does this mean the pressure on the governments of the NATO and US will rise, "do something to end this misery". And of course no one wants ww3 and even with a nucleair armageddon. Because the lines are thin, the red phone between US and SU is gone, obviously like the options for stay in touch during crisis....

The whole system is built on no one getting it into their head to destroy themselves. So this will never happen. It does not take into account crazy dictators who may choose self-destruction over personal failure and who are also not hindered internally (checks and balances). All inky black I admit, but we're closer than ever.

Nevertheless this means also that 'we watch' as human slaughter goes on and on and on!?.....That's the tragedy behind this all.

 

[Riverman]

@Riverman, I guess even 4b is most likely, south and east along the border en black sea will be in control by the Russians. But the population in parts of it still resist. Kyiv is a long and hard battle because that's a big city that is chamber for chamber fighting. The Russians have a bad moral, they have no idea were they are fighting for.

They know for what they are fighting, but they don't like that they have to fellow Slavic Ukrainians. They don't hate Ukrainians yet as much as the Ukrainians hate them. But this might change and already seems to chance with the cruelty and bloodshed they experience. This can be a good motivation, but it will, of course, make the war even more gruesome. Its the typical irregular and partisan war with atrocities.

That means lots of casualties among the ordinary people. See Mariupol and the child hospital and that on and on and on. Is that fake news? Or framed?

Its just horrible, but its being framed and fake news indeed, because CNN & Co. suggested that Russia did deliberateley shell that hospital, which is extremely unlikely. The problem is: If the Ukrainians have an artillery position at the wall of the hospital, and they kill Russians, what the Russians will do is obviously calling in artillery support, like every reasonable commander would do. You just call in the artillery support to destroy the guys shooting at you. They probably didn't even realise what kind of building this was, but even if they would, what was the potential outcome?
That's the problem of the kind of house by house fight with the maximal casualties wanted the Ukrainian regime wants. They know they can't successfully defeat Russians in the open, so they do this kind of dirty war which will destroy all cities and cost huge amounts of dead soldiers and civilian collateral damage. That's just what you get with that kind of strategy, it has nothing to do with Russian crimes or cruelty, its what you get if fighting in an urban area. That's what being meant with human shields also: If the Ukrainian artillery shoots from close by a civilian, vulnerable institution, these buildings will get damaged.

Doing as if the Russians with fun and deliberately shell children is indeed fake news and framing. The Americans have better, more precision guided options and full control of the airspace, but you can read up on how often they hit civilian targets in Afghanistan and Iraq. Deliberately or not, that's what you get in warfare, which is why a peace as soon as possible, and an end to this awful, inhumane strategy of both sides would be best. But for that, Ukraine obviously needs to offer some sort of compromise - the minimum is, also quite obviously, Crimea and guaranteed water supply for it, as well as some sort of solution for Donbas. The best thing would be a plebiscit for those areas, but again, Selenski is acting suppressive, just wants to keep as much territories as he can and confront Russia at all costs.
And if you have a war, of that kind, soldiers and civilians will die in a row, and mount to thousands, hundreds of thousands, probably even millions if it escalates on. Is that worth it? Selenski says yes, "whatever the costs". And for what? To suppress people which want to join Russia.
That's why I'm, regardless of anything else, absolutely no friend of Selenski, to say the least. His goals are not just, his methods are inhumane, he is an actor for the oligarchs, no way better than Putin, even if the Western media portray him as "their hero".

What does this mean the pressure on the governments of the NATO and US will rise, "do something to end this misery". And of course no one wants ww3 and even with a nucleair armageddon. Because the lines are thin, the red phone between US and SU is gone, obviously like the options for stay in touch during crisis....

There was a direct line of communication established between the Russian and US/NATO units in the region to have the ability to react in case of "misunderstandings", just like in Syria. That's a step in the right direction, because if a Polish pilote runs amok or a Russian missile accidently hits into Poland or stuff like that, this shouldn't start a war.

The whole system is built on no one getting it into their head to destroy themselves. So this will never happen. It does not take into account crazy dictators who may choose self-destruction over personal failure and who are also not hindered internally (checks and balances). All inky black I admit, but we're closer than ever.

Its not that easy, because Putin did a lot to prevent it, before still doing it. The West just offered no way out for the Russians heads up. And that way, they caused this, which means they are guilty if Russia fails, and they would directly strangle Russia, already economically, but if attacking even militarily, so that is of course a strong reason to "activate the last measure", before Russia being raped, and not just the decision autocrats would make. Just think about the Americans in the same/similar situation, I doubt they would have more doubts using ABC weapons to punish the enemy. I really doubt it. They surely would do it, make no mistake about that. Same standards, same logic and reasoning for all sides. That's objective, not the kind of "well he does, because he is [fill in what you want].
No, Russia was pushed that far, they might be pushed even more and like I wrote above, the outcome is unpredictable, but its not just their or Putins fault, they being cornered.

 

[Riverman]

There is also a big problem with the reference to "international law", because what constitutes a sovereign state under the current US hegemony? Basically its an independent, sovereign states, if it gets aknowledged and defended by the USA, its allies and vassal. The same situation, the same problem, with or without US support, is the main differentiating factor.
You have rebels and freedom fighters in Yemen, they are bad, because the Saudis, Israel and the USA consisder them hostile. Then there are rebels in Syria, they are the good guys, even if they are more cruel, because they are on the US and allies' side.
Same for states: The USA recognise a country, immediately it becomes a transgression of international law to attack those countries. Let's say the USA would have aknowledged the Donbas republics, immediately, the attack of the Ukraine would have constituted an act against international law. But if just Russia did it, it doesn't matter, even if its their people they are supporting on the ground.

This is a fundamental problem, like all the calls for "democracy". In Bahrain the Sunni minority government does suppress the Shia people in the country with the help fo the Saudis, they even shot into peaceful demonstrators more than once and imprison "civil rights activists". Does it matter, does this story gets blown up? No, because its not in the US and its allies interests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_in_Bahrain

And that's another fundamnetal problem with arguing about that crisis and international law. What international law constitutes, especially after 1989-1991, being for the most part defined and manipulated by the USA. Even the votes in the UN being more often than not created by pressure on all those dependent states, which can't help themselves.

WHO and UNICEF, even those trademark organisations of international help being more often than not manipulated by the great powers to do stuff in their interest, rather than helping people on the ground. I'm not starting to talk about the IMF and WTO, because it gets just way worse with that. This is not about "democracy" or "Liberalism", this is power politics masked as something else. And the worst part is, because all the Western media gets phased that much and censored more and more, people in the past did realise it better than they do now. While they still have access to a more free internet. What about the future, with even more online censorship as well? That looks really grim and evolves into yet another sort of phased totalitarianism, not just in China and Russia, but the West as well.

 

[Northener]

They know for what they are fighting, but they don't like that they have to fellow Slavic Ukrainians. They don't hate Ukrainians yet as much as the Ukrainians hate them. But this might change and already seems to chance with the cruelty and bloodshed they experience. This can be a good motivation, but it will, of course, make the war even more gruesome. Its the typical irregular and partisan war with atrocities.

That's questionable. Old commander Mart de Kruijff says:' The soldiers didn't know what the mission was, only what to do. That is disastrous for the combat posture, especially in the event of adversity.'

Its just horrible, but its being framed and fake news indeed, because CNN & Co. suggested that Russia did deliberateley shell that hospital, which is extremely unlikely.
Doing as if the Russians with fun and deliberately shell children is indeed fake news and framing. The Americans have better, more precision guided options and full control of the airspace, but you can read up on how often they hit civilian targets in Afghanistan and Iraq.

IMO it is like Flan quoted: 'ruthless cynicism'. They use cluster bombs (worldwide banned) and other heavy stuff like vacuumbombs that cause much more civilian casualties. No excuses mister Riverman!

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60571395

Its not that easy, because Putin did a lot to prevent it, before still doing it.

No he is a warmonger, he wants to restore czaristic Russia. Ukraine doen't exist form him (no country but a marginal area of great Russia and such kinds of reasoning). The man has a revanchist agenda in his mind since in 1989 the wall he was no longer a KGB spy but a taxi driver. He considered the fall of the SU as very devastating and since then the big aim is to restore old glorious Russia, the existence of the Ukraine is just a nasty dissonant in his mind. He didn't hide such opinions Riverman, so preventing a war give me a break.

 

[Duarte]

The Guardian - Opinion:

Britain’s economic war against Vladimir Putin is a mess – and it may be pointless.
Ordinary people are likely to feel the pain, and none of the oligarchs directly targeted can influence Russia’s tyrant anyway.


https://www.theguardian.com/comment...anctions-boris-johnson-vladimir-putin-ukraine

 

[Northener]

The Guardian - Opinion:

Britain’s economic war against Vladimir Putin is a mess – and it may be pointless.
Ordinary people are likely to feel the pain, and none of the oligarchs directly targeted can influence Russia’s tyrant anyway.


https://www.theguardian.com/comment...anctions-boris-johnson-vladimir-putin-ukraine

We had never been so much dependent of gas and oil from Russia in the first place.

On of course this wil hurt in economic sense. But there is more than economics.

At Tuesday there was a national Dutch fundraising for aide for the Ukrainians one of the most motived people were the old pensioners, like one old man told that as a kid he was there when the Germans bombarded Rotterdam totally to ash in may 1940.....He didn't have a lot of money, but he was motivated to make a contribution.

That's the spirit! Not the bourgeois satisfait. Brutal dicators with mystical fantasies about the unification of 'Russ' in cradle Kyiv, who wants to turn back the clock must be stopped. Even if it cuts (economical) into our own flesh.

 

[Northener]

A Russian state TV channel went off message Monday night as participants denounced the war in Ukraine.

A popular talk show broadcasted on the Russia-1 channel, “Evenings with Vladimir Solovyov,” hosted by Solovyov, one of the Kremlin’s most loyal propagandists, strayed from the Kremlin line when guests of the prime-time show began criticizing Russia’s war in Ukraine.

"Do we need to get into another Afghanistan, but even worse?” asked academic Semyon Bagdasarov.


Filmmaker Karen Shakhnazarov, also questioned the Kremlin’s decision to wage war on neighboring Ukraine, stating it risked isolating Russia and spooking its closest allies.


“I have a hard time imagining taking cities such as Kyiv. I can’t imagine how that would look,” Shakhnazarov said.

Solovyov was forced to interrupt the guests, curbing the criticism aimed at the Kremlin.


Russian State TV is the only source of information for most Russian citizens on the war in Ukraine. After launching its offensive, the Kremlin also moved quickly to freeze out social media platforms and block several independent media outlets.


State TV seldom strays from the Kremlin’s official messaging, with Solovyev a prominent voice backing Russia’s campaign to “denazify” and “demilitarize” Ukraine.


Ukraine has been widely regarded as winning the “information war” since Russia invaded last month, including through regular updates about Russian losses, and videos of captured Russian soldiers stating they were lied to about their mission in Ukraine.


In response, the Kremlin introduced strict new laws against journalists and media platforms, attempting to suppress information about the conflict and threatening any outlets that refer to the “special military operation” as a “war” with jail time.


Western governments slapped Solovyov with sanctions following the invasion, freezing his European assets and banning him from traveling to the EU.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022...-off-message-criticizes-war-on-ukraine-a76875

 

[Riverman]

IMO it is like Flan quoted: 'ruthless cynicism'. They use cluster bombs (worldwide banned) and other heavy stuff like vacuumbombs that cause much more civilian casualties. No excuses mister Riverman!

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60571395

In the end it doesn't matter how they shoot things into rubble, but they have no other choice, because house to house fights are out of question in an intact building environment. That would be suicidal idiocy. Even if you care for the well-being of the civilians from the other side, ther eare limits to it, at least for a good commander who has to care for his soldiers and the target of the mission. Like I said, the Ukrainians should evacuated as much as possible and do not, deliberately, position themselves close to key civilian structures, especially not with artillery positions.
If they do so, you can't put the whole blame on the Russians. This war is Selenskis war as much as that of Putin.

No he is a warmonger, he wants to restore czaristic Russia. Ukraine doen't exist form him (no country but a marginal area of great Russia and such kinds of reasoning). The man has a revanchist agenda in his mind since in 1989 the wall he was no longer a KGB spy but a taxi driver. He considered the fall of the SU as very devastating and since then the big aim is to restore old glorious Russia, the existence of the Ukraine is just a nasty dissonant in his mind. He didn't hide such opinions Riverman, so preventing a war give me a break.

That's all propaganda talk. You know what, when Selenski came into power, at first he wasn't that aggressive, there was also no Russian aggression in that time. Because Trump had quarrels with the Selenski regime and did cut some of the military and political aid for this corrupted regime in Kiev. But then came Biden, and as you know, Biden and his family (son) did owe the Selenski regime a lot, because it didn't cooperate with the Trump administration about in the case of the investigation against the Bidens, which have their own contacts to the Ukrainian oligarchs. And soon after getting the back up from the US, from Biden personally, he got aggressive and totally confrontational. Before that, he was just not cooperative, didn't take negotiations with Russia seriously, but after that US back up, things escalated.
He made new laws, arrested the leader of the pro-Russian opposition, closed the TV stations associated with the opposition and there was what I would call a cleansing of the administration and political landscape. Shortly afterwards Putin began to amass the troops at the border and began to threaten the Selenski regime to reconsider what they were doing.
Because effectively, the Selenski regime, after consultation with the Biden administration in the USA, eliminated any political and medial representation of significance for the pro-Russian Ukrainians!


That was the final signal, the last straw which led to the war, because with these undemocratic and hostile actions, the Selenski regime made absolutely clear that they won't make any peace with Russia, don't want any reconciliation, and will try to solve the Donbas-Crimea issue by force, with the support of the US administration.

If the policy of Trump would have prevailed, Ukraine might have considered taking negotiations seriously and this thing would have, probably, never escalated. But when the Selenski regime and the Ukrainian oligarchs got the ok from the USA, from the Biden administration, which owes them a lot, they started to become really confrontational and that led to the current war and state of things.
Repeating that nonsense propaganda about why Putin did this and that he is no longer right in his head or whatever, forget that, that's the propaganda crap stations like CNN are deliberaly, in an obviously phased manner, spread to incite hate and sentiments against the Russians. You, everybody, has to look at the events leading up to this escalation. The Putin regime acted absolutely rational, just disproportionally - but that too can be explained, because its hard to imagine how the Selenski regime can agree to any reasonable compromise. They don't care for human life, they are ready to whatever it costs to bring Russia down and to eliminate all pro-Russians from Ukraine itself.
By arresting the opposition and closing the TV stations, they made the final and absolutely clear step towards and open confrontation with Russia. Because they eliminated all political options and being re-assured by the Biden regime.

Those arrests and closures of media in Ukraine happened even before the war began, they were at the beginning of the current escalation of this conflict. He didn't even stop at the pro-Russian opposition, Selenski also persecuted and cut down other opposition forces in the country, acting, effectively, autocratic:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/rat...-property-ex-president-poroshenko-2022-01-06/

Basically it was about two anti-Russian oligarchs, of which one, Kolomoisky, is Selenskis man, than there is Poroshenko, another billionaire and enemy of Russia, and the third being Medvedchuk, a personal friend of Putin and pro-Russian, leader of the opposition, which got arrested, with many allies and friends, dispossessed and all media and TV stations closed.

The leading voice for Russian interests in Ukraine, Medvedchuk?s political party is the biggest opposition force in parliament, with millions of supporters. Over the past year, that party has come under attack. Medvedchuk was charged with treason in May and placed under house arrest in Kyiv. Just last month, the U.S. accused him and his allies of plotting to stage a coup with help from the Russian military.

The whole conflict started when any peaceful and democratic opposition to the US course of the Ukraine was cracked down, with the support and back-up of the US Biden administration:

Last February, days after the Inauguration of President Joe Biden, America?s allies in Kyiv decided to get tough on Medvedchuk. The Ukrainian government started by taking his TV channels off the air, depriving Russia of its propaganda outlets in the country. The U.S. embassy in Kyiv applauded the move. About two weeks later, on Feb. 19, 2021, Ukraine announced that it had seized the assets of Medvedchuk?s family. Among the most important, it said, was a pipeline that brings Russian oil to Europe, enriching Medvedchuk and his family?including Putin?s goddaughter, Daria?and helping to bankroll Medvedchuk?s political party.

The first inkling of Putin?s response came less than two days later, at 7 a.m. on Feb. 21. In a little-noticed statement, the Russian Defense Ministry announced the deployment of 3,000 paratroopers to the border with Ukraine for ?large-scale exercises,? training them to ?seize enemy structures and hold them until the arrival of the main force.? Those soldiers were the first in a military buildup that has since grown to more than 100,000 Russian troops. In their scramble to respond, the U.S. and its allies have sent planeloads of weapons to Ukraine and thousands of troops to secure the eastern flank of the NATO alliance.

Putin was very clear about it, the US administration and Selenski just wanted the confrontation:

When Medvedchuk was placed under house arrest, the Russian leader called the attack on his proxies ?an absolutely obvious purge of the political field,? one that threatened to turn Ukraine ?into Russia?s antithesis, a kind of anti-Russia.?

https://time.com/6144109/russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-viktor-medvedchuk/

Selenski and Biden started that war, Putin just made the first move on the ground.

 

[Vallicanus]

In the end it doesn't matter how they shoot things into rubble, but they have no other choice, because house to house fights are out of question in an intact building environment. That would be suicidal idiocy. Even if you care for the well-being of the civilians from the other side, ther eare limits to it, at least for a good commander who has to care for his soldiers and the target of the mission. Like I said, the Ukrainians should evacuated as much as possible and do not, deliberately, position themselves close to key civilian structures, especially not with artillery positions.
If they do so, you can't put the whole blame on the Russians. This war is Selenskis war as much as that of Putin.



That's all propaganda talk. You know what, when Selenski came into power, at first he wasn't that aggressive, there was also no Russian aggression in that time. Because Trump had quarrels with the Selenski regime and did cut some of the military and political aid for this corrupted regime in Kiev. But then came Biden, and as you know, Biden and his family (son) did owe the Selenski regime a lot, because it didn't cooperate with the Trump administration about in the case of the investigation against the Bidens, which have their own contacts to the Ukrainian oligarchs. And soon after getting the back up from the US, from Biden personally, he got aggressive and totally confrontational. Before that, he was just not cooperative, didn't take negotiations with Russia seriously, but after that US back up, things escalated.
He made new laws, arrested the leader of the pro-Russian opposition, closed the TV stations associated with the opposition and there was what I would call a cleansing of the administration and political landscape. Shortly afterwards Putin began to amass the troops at the border and began to threaten the Selenski regime to reconsider what they were doing.
Because effectively, the Selenski regime, after consultation with the Biden administration in the USA, eliminated any political and medial representation of significance for the pro-Russian Ukrainians!


That was the final signal, the last straw which led to the war, because with these undemocratic and hostile actions, the Selenski regime made absolutely clear that they won't make any peace with Russia, don't want any reconciliation, and will try to solve the Donbas-Crimea issue by force, with the support of the US administration.

If the policy of Trump would have prevailed, Ukraine might have considered taking negotiations seriously and this thing would have, probably, never escalated. But when the Selenski regime and the Ukrainian oligarchs got the ok from the USA, from the Biden administration, which owes them a lot, they started to become really confrontational and that led to the current war and state of things.
Repeating that nonsense propaganda about why Putin did this and that he is no longer right in his head or whatever, forget that, that's the propaganda crap stations like CNN are deliberaly, in an obviously phased manner, spread to incite hate and sentiments against the Russians. You, everybody, has to look at the events leading up to this escalation. The Putin regime acted absolutely rational, just disproportionally - but that too can be explained, because its hard to imagine how the Selenski regime can agree to any reasonable compromise. They don't care for human life, they are ready to whatever it costs to bring Russia down and to eliminate all pro-Russians from Ukraine itself.
By arresting the opposition and closing the TV stations, they made the final and absolutely clear step towards and open confrontation with Russia. Because they eliminated all political options and being re-assured by the Biden regime.

Those arrests and closures of media in Ukraine happened even before the war began, they were at the beginning of the current escalation of this conflict. He didn't even stop at the pro-Russian opposition, Selenski also persecuted and cut down other opposition forces in the country, acting, effectively, autocratic:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/rat...-property-ex-president-poroshenko-2022-01-06/

Basically it was about two anti-Russian oligarchs, of which one, Kolomoisky, is Selenskis man, than there is Poroshenko, another billionaire and enemy of Russia, and the third being Medvedchuk, a personal friend of Putin and pro-Russian, leader of the opposition, which got arrested, with many allies and friends, dispossessed and all media and TV stations closed.



The whole conflict started when any peaceful and democratic opposition to the US course of the Ukraine was cracked down, with the support and back-up of the US Biden administration:



Putin was very clear about it, the US administration and Selenski just wanted the confrontation:



https://time.com/6144109/russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-viktor-medvedchuk/

Selenski and Biden started that war, Putin just made the first move on the ground.

No, Putin started the war.

You are a Putinist joke and a bore as well.

 

[Duarte]

It seems that Russia's exclusion from the Swift payments system, as well as the ban on international use of Visa and Mastercard credit cards by Russians is affecting the business of genetics site YFull.

 

[Riverman]

No, Putin started the war.

You are a Putinist joke and a bore as well.

The war is going on for 8 years and Selenski started the escalation with the back up of the Biden administration. Yes, Putin started the military escalation to the next level, but that was because it became evident for anybody that the Selenski regime is not interested in a peaceful solution which even just remotely respects Russian interests, including the interests of the Donbas Russians and the Crimeans. You can blame him for this military escalation, and that's ok with me, because it was wrong indeed, but it was the simple reaction to what Selenski with the back up by Biden did.
You see, it was all calm until Biden came into office and pushed the issue, he owed Selenski a lot from the US presidintial election campaign, because Selenski did seize Trump and didn't investigate in the Biden case, like demanded. Even when Trump punished him, he didn't come to terms, even when Trump cut the military support, he didn't comply and stood to the Biden family. They owe him something and being obviously allied with the anti-Russian fraction in Ukraine by common hate on Putin and the Russians.

Just read the article:
https://time.com/6144109/russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-viktor-medvedchuk/

As soon as Biden was in office, the purge in the Ukraine started, with the arresting of opposition groups, closed media and TV stations, massive anti-Russian propaganda, and the weapons came in, to make clear that the Ukraine is going for the conflict in Donbas on a military level and will join NATO no matter what Russia says. That was the escalation which led to the war, and its not just Russias fault. This has also zero to do with democracy and freedom, because Selenski himself acted, with the oligarchs, especially Kolomoisky in the background, anti-democratic. He treated the Ukrainians like him being a feudal lord and now he sacrifices the Ukrainians in his war against Russia with the credo "no matter the costs". Kolomoisky is the man in the background, which first pushed him as a TV star and then as presidentinal candidate against the two other oligarchs Poroshenko (anti-Russian too) and the opposition of the pro-Russian oligarch Medvedchuk.

Its just disgusting how the Western media don't care for the facts any longer, the provocation and purge before the war broke out, which actually caused the war. There are now more and more Ukrainians under pressure which don't agree with this war, just like its happening in Russia too. They are equals in this respect as well. But since "the West" and especially the USA with the Biden administration hates Russia and Putin, and don't care for the costs, just like Selenski, the one sided propaganda goes on and the war escalates more and more. Where it ends, who knows? That maniac even tells the world "Putin is just bluffing." He is willing to risk Armageddon for his campaign against the Russians.
That's Biden's war as much as its Putins, because he pushed and backed up Selenski in his confrontational war course. The democrats have now a series of wars they began in every presidential term. Its indeed Trumps policy which kept things peaceful, which didn't push the Ukraine into war. Biden is different, he hates Putin personally, just like Selenski, and they don't care for the costs. They are equals to Putin in this respect also.