Politics Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

[Northener]

I agree, with you. Merkel has destroyed the once conservative CDU and "castrated" all the alpha male politicians, so to speak. Our mainstream media was only full of praise and behaved like a court reporter of her. Merkel is from East Germany, and from recalling reading she has a "Stasi Past". However, our current Chancellor, another leftist, isn't better. Germany like the USA and other Western countries has shifted strongly to left. The USA is the role model and where the USA usually goes Europe follows. Here's the thing, there are people who love the USA but don't like the politics there. For example, many people were highly critical of the wars under Bush or Obama. However, they weren't anti-American as such but just didn't like the geopolitics. And then there are the real anti-American folks out there. What I find rather puzzling is that many young Americans, especially the college-educated ones, express a lot of contempt for the USA, such as burning the US-American flag and whatnot. In my personal opinion, China is much more dangerous than Russia. Communist China poses a much bigger threat than Russia to the USA. When it comes to Ukraine, the situation is different.

Ok you long for the alpha males in German politics? The biggest Alpha Man of the last years mister Gerhard Schroder (auch einer der Sozis) had really a bromance with the other Alpha Man Vladimir Putin. One of the latest acts as chancellor was Nord Stream 2, a present for Putin. Just a few weeks ago Schröder was presented a new member of the board of Gazprom.....Scholz, a steady and sober person, has thrown it it in the dustbin!

I have been fed up with this alpha males real experts....they only make trouble in their gorilla acts.

 

[Northener]

I came across this :

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/23/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-joe-biden/index.html

Trump didn't take long to make sure Putin knew he approved of his movement of troops into parts of eastern Ukraine, knowing that his comments would be picked up and beamed around the world.
"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine, of Ukraine, Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful," Trump said in an interview on "The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show."

Is this correct?
I think this is disgusting.
No matter for what purpose Trumps is telling such stories.

My goodness.....alpha male and the alpha male

 

[firetown]

My goodness.....alpha male and the alpha male

Sorry to burst the Northern bubble on Helmut Schmidt

 

[Northener]

Sorry to burst the Northern bubble on Helmut Schmidt

As said being Northern German and having a Jewish background (Schmidt's grandfather was a Jewish banker, he didn't knew for long) is not incongruent for me. This all leads to off topic remarks. Please stay and topic.

 

[firetown]

As said being Northern German and having a Jewish background (Schmidt's grandfather was a Jewish banker, he didn't knew for long) is not incongruent for me. This all leads to off topic remarks. Please stay and topic.

I apologize, but since this is a genetics forum, I didn't feel the need to sweep a lower percentage of highly significant DNA under an ideological rug.

 

[real expert]

Ok you long for the alpha males in German politics? The biggest Alpha Man of the last years mister Gerhard Schroder (auch einer der Sozis) had really a bromance with the other Alpha Man Vladimir Putin. One of the latest acts as chancellor was Nord Stream 2, a present for Putin. Just a few weeks ago Schröder was presented a new member of the board of Gazprom.....Scholz, a steady and sober person, has thrown it it in the dustbin!

I have been fed up with this alpha males real experts....they only make trouble in their gorilla acts.

”Make Masculinity Great Again!”:sun: What do you think? Europeans need "to man up" since they can't always expect Americans to do the job of protecting them. Hate or love Trump, but under him there were no wars.

Besides, Helmut Schmidt was also an alpha male.

 

[Palermo Trapani]

I don't harass Italians....it was Palermo who brought up that Italians were less anti-American in Europe. And I reacted on that. I'm not anti-Italian not at all (but you seem to think that for uncleared reason). And to the Dutch nationality I can take lost of humor and critique no problem.

When it's about the Ukraine why insist on those 2% but ok.... succes I have done with it for a while (mission accomplished Angela). This is not the way I want to discuss, when my statement are constantly being taken out of context.

The issue of NATO spending and an anti-Americanism is relative. I did state that Italy is one of the most pro-American countries in Europe, that is an empirical Fact. The other countries in Europe that are largely more pro American are the Poland, Hungary and UK. This survey is dated back to 2017 during the Trump era so some of the negative attitudes towards the USA may be because of Trump himself and that the USA elected Trump.

https://stacker.com/stories/132/countries-most-and-least-favorable-views-us

So yes when I see that type of views towards the USA by most of the countries, it does seem reasonable to ask why is the USA spending like 3.5% of GDP on defense with still 70-80K forces stationed in Europe. So these factors are interrelated to me, maybe not you, but that is why we have Freedom of speech and right to disagree with each other.

As for NATO, the op-ed linked below is from a Defense analyst with the former President Ronald Reagan Institute (Hoff). She citing 2019 data points out that Americans both support NATO but a overwhelmingly want NATO to spend more on its own defense. Hoff points out that this call for more spending by Europeans goes back to Bush 2, to Obama and to Trump. Now did Trump perhaps handle this in a non-presidential way, yes. But on principle he is 100% correct and his 2 predecessors (Bush 2 and Obama) had the same exact views. I cited Ms. Hoff because I consider myself to be a an old Reaganite.

https://www.americanactionforum.org/insight/the-cost-of-not-sharing-natos-burden/

2021 NATO statistics. Based on this data (click link for Table 3), 10 countries are hitting 2% of GDP. USA, Greece, UK, Poland, France, Croatia, Estonia, Latvia, Romania and Lithuania in 2021 of the 30. Note Greece For example, they are estimated to hit 3.82% of GDP. Obviously they have borders closer to the Levant which borders Turkey and thus that is an area where there is potential terrorism. And while nobody expects Russia to move into Georgia, such a move could result a threat since Turkey is the country that sits between Greece's Eastern Border and Georgia.

But lets take a step and look at Greece spending that amount (and other countries like Croatia, Estonia, Lativa, Romania, Lithuania), you think maybe if Germany, which again is the largest economy in Europe and 4th Largest in the World, would spend at least 2% that maybe countries like Greece could not spend 3.82% and maybe invest that money into Road infrastructure, its education system, its health care system, etc. You keep insinuating that Germany's increased spending has to be directed at increasing its own Military, which I think sits around 70K, with 2 Armored (Panzer Divisions) among them. No, that money can be spent on facilities upkeep (Bases) helping cover the cost of equipment used by NATO allies, etc.

But kudos to the Greeks, well done. And surprisingly I have to give credit to Macron and France for hitting the target. The UK I had no doubt was contributing to NATO financially. And again as I said in other posts, 11 of the top 25 Economies in the world are NATO allies, 3 of them (USA, Canada and Turkey) are not in Europe. Among the 8 European NATO allies that are among those 25 largest economies, only the UK, France and Poland are spending 2% of NATO defense. Germany, "Italy", the Netherlands, Spain, and Belgium are not.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_184844.htm

So it is not just "Americans of Italian ancestry" here on Eupedia that are looking at the NATO expenditures of the USA and its 29 NATO partners, it is an issue with Most Americans.

While the Economist article is behind a paywall, it begrudgingly concedes Trump has a point and it clearly talks about Germany. The Economist of course is a UK journal, not American, and perhaps its focusing on Germany is related to some UK/German rivalry regarding the political and economic leaders of Europe (France seems to see itself as in that group as well).

https://www.economist.com/special-r...-their-gdp-on-defence-is-proving-hard-to-keep

 

[real expert]

I apologize, but since this is a genetics forum, I didn't feel the need to sweep a lower percentage of highly significant DNA under an ideological rug.

It's a sensitive topic. So, I get where Northerner is coming from. In Germany for example it's taboo to view Jewish people as their own ethnicity or as an ethno-religious entity. At school, we were emphatically taught that being Jewish is only a religious thing, like being a Catholic or Protestant with no ethnicity attached to it. There is a denial that being Jewish has also a genetic component. Like the Yezidi religion, the Jewish faith is by and large an ethno-religion. Actually, it's impressive how Jews could preserve their religious, cultural, and ethnic identity for 2000 years in the diaspora.

 

[real expert]

I don't see a reason why a Jewish background is not North German...... So why stress that. And yes he was but is this relevant when you call him a political hero....

You want to put me in a corner where I don't belong mister.

Although Schmidt didn't identify as Jewish, his Jewish background was special to him and he himself made a distinction. Keep in mind, that the North German average Joe is and was through and through Protestant. Besides, many Germans still don't know that Schmidt is actually part Jewish since he only revealed this secret to the public late in his life, and only on occasion. In fact, many Jewish people in Germany prefer to be low key about their Jewish background. There are certainly some Germans who would be surprised if not shocked if they knew that Schmidt was quarter Jewish. However, Schmidt was always sharp, quick-witted, sovereign during talk shows even when he was asked stupid questions. He was always chain-smoking while being interviewed and was "schnacken", speaking with a Northern German accent.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Shouldn't you create a seperate thread on the topic of Helmut Schmidt being Jewish?
This thread is about Putin and Ukraine.

 

[Northener]

The issue of NATO spending and an anti-Americanism is relative. I did state that Italy is one of the most pro-American countries in Europe, that is an empirical Fact. The other countries in Europe that are largely more pro American are the Poland, Hungary and UK. This survey is dated back to 2017 during the Trump era so some of the negative attitudes towards the USA may be because of Trump himself and that the USA elected Trump.

https://stacker.com/stories/132/countries-most-and-least-favorable-views-us

So yes when I see that type of views towards the USA by most of the countries, it does seem reasonable to ask why is the USA spending like 3.5% of GDP on defense with still 70-80K forces stationed in Europe. So these factors are interrelated to me, maybe not you, but that is why we have Freedom of speech and right to disagree with each other.

As for NATO, the op-ed linked below is from a Defense analyst with the former President Ronald Reagan Institute (Hoff). She citing 2019 data points out that Americans both support NATO but a overwhelmingly want NATO to spend more on its own defense. Hoff points out that this call for more spending by Europeans goes back to Bush 2, to Obama and to Trump. Now did Trump perhaps handle this in a non-presidential way, yes. But on principle he is 100% correct and his 2 predecessors (Bush 2 and Obama) had the same exact views. I cited Ms. Hoff because I consider myself to be a an old Reaganite.

https://www.americanactionforum.org/insight/the-cost-of-not-sharing-natos-burden/

2021 NATO statistics. Based on this data (click link for Table 3), 10 countries are hitting 2% of GDP. USA, Greece, UK, Poland, France, Croatia, Estonia, Latvia, Romania and Lithuania in 2021 of the 30. Note Greece For example, they are estimated to hit 3.82% of GDP. Obviously they have borders closer to the Levant which borders Turkey and thus that is an area where there is potential terrorism. And while nobody expects Russia to move into Georgia, such a move could result a threat since Turkey is the country that sits between Greece's Eastern Border and Georgia.

But lets take a step and look at Greece spending that amount (and other countries like Croatia, Estonia, Lativa, Romania, Lithuania), you think maybe if Germany, which again is the largest economy in Europe and 4th Largest in the World, would spend at least 2% that maybe countries like Greece could not spend 3.82% and maybe invest that money into Road infrastructure, its education system, its health care system, etc. You keep insinuating that Germany's increased spending has to be directed at increasing its own Military, which I think sits around 70K, with 2 Armored (Panzer Divisions) among them. No, that money can be spent on facilities upkeep (Bases) helping cover the cost of equipment used by NATO allies, etc.

But kudos to the Greeks, well done. And surprisingly I have to give credit to Macron and France for hitting the target. The UK I had no doubt was contributing to NATO financially. And again as I said in other posts, 11 of the top 25 Economies in the world are NATO allies, 3 of them (USA, Canada and Turkey) are not in Europe. Among the 8 European NATO allies that are among those 25 largest economies, only the UK, France and Poland are spending 2% of NATO defense. Germany, "Italy", the Netherlands, Spain, and Belgium are not.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_184844.htm

So it is not just "Americans of Italian ancestry" here on Eupedia that are looking at the NATO expenditures of the USA and its 29 NATO partners, it is an issue with Most Americans.

While the Economist article is behind a paywall, it begrudgingly concedes Trump has a point and it clearly talks about Germany. The Economist of course is a UK journal, not American, and perhaps its focusing on Germany is related to some UK/German rivalry regarding the political and economic leaders of Europe (France seems to see itself as in that group as well).

https://www.economist.com/special-r...-their-gdp-on-defence-is-proving-hard-to-keep

And I did state that the relationship between the Dutch and de US has the oldest roots, has had no tensions, and is mutual the Dutch are the third investors in the US, the US the first in the Netherlands. All facts. And all beside the topic. With al the respect I don't want to make it to an accountant topic.

 

[Northener]

It's a sensitive topic. So, I get where Northerner is coming from. In Germany for example it's taboo to view Jewish people as their own ethnicity or as an ethno-religious entity. At school, we were emphatically taught that being Jewish is only a religious thing, like being a Catholic or Protestant with no ethnicity attached to it. There is a denial that being Jewish has also a genetic component. Like the Yezidi religion, the Jewish faith is by and large an ethno-religion. Actually, it's impressive how Jews could preserve their religious, cultural, and ethnic identity for 2000 years in the diaspora.

Although Schmidt didn't identify as Jewish, his Jewish background was special to him and he himself made a distinction. Keep in mind, that the North German average Joe is and was through and through Protestant. Besides, many Germans still don't know that Schmidt is actually part Jewish since he only revealed this secret to the public late in his life, and only on occasion. In fact, many Jewish people in Germany prefer to be low key about their Jewish background. There are certainly some Germans who would be surprised if not shocked if they knew that Schmidt was quarter Jewish. However, Schmidt was always sharp, quick-witted, sovereign during talk shows even when he was asked stupid questions. He was always chain-smoking while being interviewed and was "schnacken", speaking with a Northern German accent.

I guess you don't get it.
Platt proaten kin ik ook mien jong. And for the rest my ancestry is an amalgam of anabaptist, roman catholics, reformed and atheist hahahah And in my Platt language there were some influences of Jiddish. So what the heck. For the rest see bicileur>>>>>

 

[Northener]

”Make Masculinity Great Again!”:sun: What do you think? Europeans need "to man up" since they can't always expect Americans to do the job of protecting them. Hate or love Trump, but under him there were no wars.

Besides, Helmut Schmidt was also an alpha male.

No I don't like that masculinity thing, it's typically for the authoritarian populist.

The authoritarian populist movement in Europe have all ties with the Kremlin. Partly because they have the same ideology. And partly they are financed by it. And partly because Putin wants to destabilize the West.

Even Trump had in 2016 still uncleared affiliations with the Kremlin/Putin....

"count your blessings"

 

[real expert]

I guess ypou don't get it/
Platt proaten kin ik ook mien jong. And for the rest my ancestry is an amalgam of anabaptist, roman catholics, reformed and atheist hahahah And in my Platt language there were some influences of Jiddish. So what the heck. For the rest see bicileur>>>>>

Ik begrijp je, I understand you but for some Jewish people being considered something of their own is important to them.Last time I checked on my ancestrydna and 23&me some people score Ashkenazi/or Sephardi Jewish but never Catholic, Protestant, etc. I leave it at that and let's go back to the topic.

 

[Angela]

It's a sensitive topic. So, I get where Northerner is coming from. In Germany for example it's taboo to view Jewish people as their own ethnicity or as an ethno-religious entity. At school, we were emphatically taught that being Jewish is only a religious thing, like being a Catholic or Protestant with no ethnicity attached to it. There is a denial that being Jewish has also a genetic component. Like the Yezidi religion, the Jewish faith is by and large an ethno-religion. Actually, it's impressive how Jews could preserve their religious, cultural, and ethnic identity for 2000 years in the diaspora.

Well, maybe they should consider how Jews look at it, and I can assure you that the vast majority see it as an ethnicity. Millions of them still consider themselves "Jewish" even if they are atheists who rejected the religion long ago.

Goodness, one of my dear friends married a Jewish guy. His family sat shiva for him.

Sad if true that Schmidt is uncomfortable admitting that he is 1/4 Jewish. Not that he should be defined by it. However, to be ashamed of it is another thing, or to be afraid of revealing it.

 

[Northener]

Sad if true that Schmidt is uncomfortable admitting that he is 1/4 Jewish. Not that he should be defined by it. However, to be ashamed of it is another thing, or to be afraid of revealing it.

He wasn't but his parents wanted to protect him for this knowledge because of the Neurenberger laws (if I remember it well from on of his biography (hummm still off topic).

 

[Northener]

We are entering in a new phase in the war in the Ukraine. This not only lead to a human catastrophe it will imo lead to a new cold war between:

the defenders of the open society vs those wo want to close it,

the 'liberal-democracy' vs 'the authoritarian-populist'

The ideologue behind Putin is Alexandre Dugin, in his The Fourth Political Theory, is the central point the attack on 'The open society and it's enemies' from Karl Popper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Open_Society_and_Its_Enemies

This will also lead to an intensified clash in the west itself. We have the various forms of authoritarian populist in the West-European countries in the US the Trumpist are garthered around it. Trump declared Putin as a genius, and the attack on the White House was no accident in this respect.

The authoritarian populist in West-European already received financial funding from the Kremlin, and the 2016 US election affiliations between the Trump team and the Kremlin are still not cleared.

A possible reelection of Trump (his position within the Republicans is still unquestioned) will of course lead to a new bromance with Trump and a dissolvement of the Nato, those 2% was just a pretext for Trump. A 'puppet of the Kremlin' in the White House is the last thing we need in the future.

We have entered a new phase in global politics.....

 

[firetown]

It's a sensitive topic. So, I get where Northerner is coming from. In Germany for example it's taboo to view Jewish people as their own ethnicity or as an ethno-religious entity. At school, we were emphatically taught that being Jewish is only a religious thing, like being a Catholic or Protestant with no ethnicity attached to it. There is a denial that being Jewish has also a genetic component. Like the Yezidi religion, the Jewish faith is by and large an ethno-religion. Actually, it's impressive how Jews could preserve their religious, cultural, and ethnic identity for 2000 years in the diaspora.

So when DNA companies send out results to Germans and the results include something like 3% Ashkenazi Jewish, do they just add those 3% to "Other"?

 

[real expert]

Ukraine has sovereignty so that's not up to Russia. For Putin and Dugin Kiev this is the cradle of Rus so I doubt if they stop in the eastern part. So support and provide the Ukranians to defend themselves.

And more general I'm talking about the ideological challenge Putin/Dugin is 'offering' the West....that is imo more in the line of Lévy!

If the Ukrainian folks want to be an independent country, it seems like they’re going to have to fight for their independence on the battlefield. I could be wrong, but I assume that overall the Russian people are not keen on the war in Ukraine. However, this can change when the Russian public gets the impression that the "whole" world and especially the West is against them. The bottom line is that these geopolitical games will only benefit certain groups while the people in the middle of this will have to pay.

 

[Northener]

There was a campaign in Germany called "Disarm instead of upgrade" against any major investments in the military/army. Germans, especially the Youth struggle with the military, specifically the idea that the military is an element of geopolitical power. Therefore Germans don't want a strong military since they rely on having the strongest economy in Europe and there are of course historical issues. In fact, Germany proceeds to disarm its military. Anyway, a strong and stable USA is in all of our interests, at least for us who live in the Western world. Biden is unfortunately a weak leader.

Indeed that's needed. Nevertheless Biden, with lots of of experience in foreign policy, could achieve more in this respect. One thing we now know for sure the attack on Ukraine is done with applause of Trump... So if he was still president...