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Thread: Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

  1. #1626
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    I don't know why Western conservatives support Russia. Russia is literally modern Sodom and Gomorrah.

    Quote from another forum:

    Russia has the highest abortion rate per 1,000 inhabitants in the world.
    40% of Russian children are brought up without a father, which makes Russians more like African Americans.
    In Russia there is the phenomenon of so-called street children. Several million homeless children live on the streets of Russian cities.
    Russia is the leader in Europe in the number of people infected with HIV. The reason for this is, among other things, the universal consent to prostitution.
    Some regions of Russia are similar to some African countries in this respect.
    Russians also excel in divorce rates and child abandonment.
    Russia also has the world's second largest alcohol death rate.
    The highest in Europe is also the number of murders per 1,000 inhabitants.
    Although the majority of Russians identify themselves with the Orthodox Church, only a few percent of the population practice the Orthodox faith.

    All this shows a picture of the demoralized post-Soviet society, mired in a crisis of values and the collapse of basic social institutions such as the family.
    Russia is literally as degenerated as the West, but in addition is plagued by the Homo Sovieticus mindset.
    There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^^ After all, this degeneracy came from Russia to the West, as Bezmenov explained back in 1985:



    ^^^
    It did not originate in the West, but Western universities were infiltrated by Marxists from the USSR.

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    ^^^
    You literally adopted Russian values and renamed them Western values. That happened around the 1970s or 1980s.

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    Doesn't anyone think that the future of the BRI and and silk road trades between Russia, Ukraine-Mauripol steel production port city will greatly facilitate and expand trade between Asia? China and India can trade in roubles - yaun - rupee and expand their economies with energy, commodities, farm products-high tech manufacturing. Perhaps China and or India will help in the reconstruction of Mauripol and other areas devestated by the Nazi like Ukrainian battalions, who knows? Interesting potential for future emerging market growth raising the living standards across BRI Asia.
    Suum cuique---Rubiconem suum


  5. #1630
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    Nigel Farage said it all in 2014:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0x6BXCi7TM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Doesn't anyone think that the future of the BRI and and silk road trades between Russia, Ukraine-Mauripol steel production port city will greatly facilitate and expand trade between Asia? China and India can trade in roubles - yaun - rupee and expand their economies with energy, commodities, farm products-high tech manufacturing. Perhaps China and or India will help in the reconstruction of Mauripol and other areas devestated by the Nazi like Ukrainian battalions, who knows? Interesting potential for future emerging market growth raising the living standards across BRI Asia.
    Funny that all people with Nazi-leaning views until 24 February suddenly became Anti-Nazis after that date...

    But do you know why in fact did Nazi Germany fail? Because it was ran by German losers.

    Nazi Israel with a Jewish leader like Zelensky would be truly Ubermensch and invincible.

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    ^^^ Heavenly Jerusalem is coming and you can't stop it, Silesian:



    https://vk.com/wall-108981016_1831?lang=en

    "Our friends, the right tolerant nationality, from Dnepropetrovsk announced the creation of Heavenly Jerusalem (without specifying the date). Glory to the heavenly Jerusalem. Let us rejoice, dear brothers and sisters. The administration of the group, as well as the Council of the Benefactors of Heavenly Jerusalem and every year with them Roman Nikandrovich and Harry Ber-Kut join the congratulations and begin to celebrate."

    Map of Heavenly Jerusalem:



    Article about it:

    https://www.maurizioblondet.it/uno-a...to-ce-davvero/

    Google Translation (Italian > English):

    "A Jewish state in Ukraine: the project really exists
    By Maurizio Blondet, March 14, 2022

    A reader tells me that the project is described in black and white on Russian Wikipedia.

    (...)

    Heavenly Jerusalem (project):

    Heavenly Jerusalem based on five southern regions of Ukraine

    This article is about a hypothetical project related to Israel. For more information, contact your nearest rabbi!
    Heavenly Jerusalem (also New Jerusalem, Israel 2.0, New Israel) is a project whose goal is to form a Jewish state within Ukraine on the territories of its five southern regions: Odessa, Dnipropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Kherson and Mykolaiv.

    The project is long-term, its terms are determined by the College of Benefactors, the time is described until 2049 and also after 2060 [1]

    Content
    1 Description of the project
    2 Reforms in Ukraine
    3 Financing
    4 Criticisms
    5 interesting facts
    6 Notes

    Description of the project
    According to I. Berkut, the author of the idea and the executive director of the project [2] [3] [4]: ​​the next five years are destruction and fragmentation after 19, and the next five years, after 2024, is reformatting. 2029 is the first step for NI "

    Thus, by the end of 2029, approximately 5 million Jews are expected to arrive in the New Homeland for the construction of the New Jerusalem [5].

    Israeli Prime Minister B. Netanyahu has already discussed organizing the resettlement and settlement of Jews, as well as possible economic and political assistance in implementing the project, with current Ukrainian Prime Minister V. Groisman, Prime Minister of the Federation Russian DA Medvedev, senior adviser to US President Donald Trump and a member of the influential Jewish organization Chabad Lubavitch, Jared Kushner.

    The project receives the support of well-known public figures, political scientists and analysts [6]: V. Pozner, Ya.

    Interestingly, despite its scale, the project is neither covered by the world nor by the local Ukrainian press (i.e. central media channels), with very rare exceptions.

    Most of the information on the implementation of the project comes from its executive director Igor Berkut. I. Berkut's video interviews, covering the progress of the project, are posted on the Rassvet YouTube channel.

    The official announcement of the New Jerusalem project should be made after the adoption of the law on the decentralization of Ukraine in 2021-2022. In July 2019, Switzerland allocated 25 million euros, also for the decentralization of Ukraine [8] [n1].

    The New Jerusalem project began in early 2017 with the landing in the port of Odessa of the first group of immigrants from Israel, led by I. Berkut [2, 19:40]. This group of 183 Jewish pioneers came to Ukraine from Haifa (Israel) to lay the foundation stone of the heavenly Jerusalem on the fertile land of southern Ukraine.

    The management of the New Jerusalem will be entrusted to the "Council of Benevolent" composed of 12 leaders [9]:

    Originally from Kiev, Golda Meir, 5th Prime Minister of the State of Israel, was declared Honorary Eternal Head of the Council;
    B. Netanyahu will become the President-Prime Minister, after the Prime Minister's powers in the State of Israel have been fulfilled;
    Former US Federal Reserve Chief Ben Bernanke will manage finances;
    Defense matters will be borne by the current Minister of Defense of Israel, originally from Chisinau, Avigdor Lieberman;
    The secret services will be headed by Yakov Kedmi, former head of the Nativ Office for relations with the Jews of the USSR and Eastern Europe, born in Moscow;
    Moscow-born political scientist and publicist Avigdor Eskin will be responsible for foreign affairs;
    Internal affairs will be entrusted to former Israeli State Minister of Internal Affairs, Soviet dissident Natan Sharansky;
    The media will be directed by the famous Russian TV presenter Vladimir Solovyov;
    Matters of justice will be decided by a Crimean native, lawyer Tatyana Montyan;
    The speaker of the Council will be the former president of the Russian Jewish Congress Evgeny Satanovsky;
    The chief rabbi should name an Ashkenazi ethnic Khazarian version of the appearance of this branch of the Israel tree;
    Hidden apostle
    The creation of two capitals is planned in the New Jerusalem [10]: the first, political and commercial capital, will be located in today's city of Dnepropetrovsk and will be named in consonance with the New Jerusalem project, the second, cultural, will be located in Odessa and will be called "Adessa".

    Reforms in Ukraine

    The New Jerusalem project is consulted by the Polish Finance Minister Leszek Balcerowicz [11] [12], who, together with I. Berkut and other participants, is the author of economic reforms in Ukraine. According to the authors of the reforms, population depopulation should become the basis for the well-being of the citizens of the future Ukraine: The key principle of the reform is that the smaller the population, the greater the per capita GDP. Therefore, the main way of reform is a progressive decrease in the country's population , admits I. Berkut [13] [14].

    In accordance with these reforms, in 2017 the Minister of Social Affairs the politician A. Reva said [15] [16]: "There are not only too many Ukrainians, but they still eat a lot". V. Groysman, in his turn, found the courage and for the first time in the history of Ukraine said [17] [18]: "Ukrainians study too much". I (I. Berkut) and V. Groysman, we both understand that "for a Ukrainian child, this should be" the day of the kavun "," the day of the tsibuli "," the day of embroidery "; for a Jewish child, this should be "physics day", "chemistry day", "programming day"

    Financing

    At the end of 2016, I. Berkut cites the following sources of funding for projects in the framework of economic reforms in Ukraine [19]: $ 250,000 from one of the IMF tranches ($ 1 billion), $ 250,000 from the Ukrainian Economy Modernization (F4) fund Fund, Switzerland, Friedman, Feldman, Fishman and Firtash), we hope to receive an additional $ 450,000 from the George Soros Foundation.

    In another video [20], the executive director of the project speaks thus: The (financial) foundations are laid by divine providence. Today, 2-3 billionaires leave every day for the other world. If they leave all the inheritance to their relatives, it will damage them. They can donate money to the project. Assistance is also provided by billionaires from Kazakhstan, Russia and many other countries. This will be the help of Russia, Germany, the European Central Bank, the Bank of England, the Rothschild House, the United States, hundreds of family funds, Hollywood, Apple, Facebook, Google.

    In July 2019, Ukraine received funding from Switzerland (25 million euros), the EU (137 million euros + 29.5 million euros) and technical assistance from the United States (695 million dollars) [21 ]. It is about supporting public administration reforms and qualitative changes in the provision of services, as well as decentralization.

    Criticism

    Despite the size of the project, its consistency with high-ranking people (B. Netanyahu, DA Medvedev, V. Groysman, Jared Kushner, Leszek Balcerowych), is not covered either in the world or by the local Ukrainian press (on central channels). The exception is the Israeli press [22].

    In his informative videos, I. Berkut talks more than once about the outstanding figure of our time, Lee Kuan Yew, the creator of Singapore's "economic miracle". I. Berkut cites this statesman as an example and speaks of Singapore as a possible development model for the New Jerusalem. At the same time, I. Berkut's approach to financing and developing the project is based, respectively, on the desire to receive money from global companies [20] and on the depopulation of the Ukrainian population [13]. The fact is that from Lee Kuan Yew's book History of Singapore. From the "third world - to the first" it follows that Lee Kuan Yew has nothing to do with I. Berkut's approach to state development. He has never counted on "foreign" money and has dealt with the solution of numerous problems and the development of Singapore, relying only on his exceptional mind and his human resources, without ever resorting to the depopulation of the population.

    I. Berkut, speaking in a video interview on the YouTube channel Rassvet about the New Jerusalem project, makes many shocking statements, which, according to critics, indicate that he suffers from chauvinism. Then, at the beginning of the video [23], an image of the future "New Jerusalem" is presented with an explanation: "the dog in the photo represents all nations except the Jewish and Ukrainian ones"

    Asked by one of the spectators [24]: "I will not allow a Jewish project to be built on my land", I. Berkut replies: "dear Petya, there is nothing of yours there and there never was. Petya - you are a small particle of endangered biomass that the wind of change has brought into our objective reality. This was explained to you under Kravchuk, under Yushchenko, etc. Petya, look around you and see where you are and remember: there is nothing there, there was and there will be nothing of yours "

    Speaking of a possible threat to Israel, I. Berkut reports [25] that in this case, from the territory of Celestial Jerusalem, nuclear attacks will be launched with medium-range headed missiles

    I. Berkut, speaking of the New Jerusalem, refers several times to chapter 21 of the Apocalypse of John the Theologian, which deals with the second coming of Christ and the creation (more precisely, the descent from heaven) of the heavenly Jerusalem [32] [ 33] [34] [35]. Furthermore, on the basis of the Apocalypse, the composition of the council of benefactors of the heavenly Jerusalem is chosen [9]. Furthermore, if the Apocalypse speaks of representatives of the twelve tribes of Israel, then the Jews are elected to the council of benefactors regardless of belonging to any tribe. This fact may be due to the fact that 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel are considered lost.

    During the implementation of the "Heavenly Jerusalem" project, the conflict between the Galicians and the Jewish community in Ukraine was exposed. In one of the videos [36], I. Berkut reads a poem by a certain Jew, Mikhail Fonkin, entitled "To the slanderers of Jerusalem", which is clearly a parody of A. S. Pushkin's poem "To the slanderers of Russia" [37]. Furthermore, I. Berkut does not provide references to AS Pushkin, but presents this mix as an intuition of this same Fonkin. Two points of Fonkin's poem can be noted: AS Pushkin's words redeemed with blood have been replaced with redeemed with money; even the words "you have not read these bloody tablets" have been replaced with "you have not read either the Protocols of the Magi or the Tablets of Moses ..." Here we are talking about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the main document "Judeo-Masonic conspiracy , As well as the Pentateuch of Moses and the Talmud - the main books of Judaism.

    Notes

    (...)"

  8. #1633
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    ^^^ OK it looks like a parody tbh.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Nigel Farage said it all in 2014:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0x6BXCi7TM
    That is no coincident how the anti-EU reactionary politicians not only understand Putin very well (they share the same agenda copy past Russia for UK in this cage), in this respect they Putin, and in many cases like Front National in France, FPÖ in Austria , FvD in the Netherlands all those (semi) fascist party's have gotten money from the Kremlin. Al speaking like their master's voice....When do they wake up and see that Putin means tyranny and someone who kills freedom.

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    Zelenski spoke in Dutch parliament this morning, again an excellent speech in which he makes a connection between the country (in casu the Netherlands) and the battle the Ukraine is fighting. So in our case it was about the birth of the Dutch nation in the battle against tyranny (and out of it tolerance and freedom), the bombing of Rotterdam (like Mariupol) by the Nazis in 1940, and the shot down of MH17 by Ukrainian separatist which costed nearly 300 Dutch lives.....

    That man is a big big communicator!

    On Thursday morning, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy addressed the House of Representatives (Tweede Kamer) via a live video feed, calling on the Netherlands to tighten sanctions against Russia and increase support for Ukraine through the provision of weapons. “Tyranny must always lose," Zelenskyy said. "I hope you can help us win.”


    Ukrainian President referenced MH17 and bombing of Rotterdam
    Over the last several weeks, Zelenskyy has addressed 13 national parliaments and governments around the world, including US Congress and the House of Commons in the United Kingdom. This week, it was the turn of the Dutch government. It marked the first time in history that the Tweede Kamer invited a foreign leader to address MPs.


    In a 15-minute speech, the Ukrainian President gave details about the current situation in Ukraine, emphasising that the country would continue to defend itself while acknowledging that after just one month of war, international interest in the conflict was already waning. “The war in Ukraine is sadly becoming a routine," he said.


    Zelenskyy compared Russia's attack on Ukraine to the beginning of the Second World War, referencing the bombing of Rotterdam during the Nazi invasion of the Netherlands. "World War Two started as an invasion of only a few countries," Zelenskyy said. "But it didn't take long before bombs were also falling on Rotterdam and London."


    As was expected, the Ukrainian President also mentioned flight MH17, which was shot down over eastern Ukraine seven years ago: "We have to do something now to stop this. In 2014, Russia entered our country. You felt that when MH17 was shot down. There is no doubt: this is not a just war. Those who gave the order must be tried."


    Calls for the Netherlands to tighten sanctions and increase support
    While Zelenskyy took time to thank the government and the people of the Netherlands for their support thus far, he emphasised that more action must be taken as soon as possible in order to put an end to Russia's "tyranny."


    “Russia continues to attack Ukraine, we have to do something to protect our country. We have to stop this so there will never again be war in Europe,” the President said. “Tougher sanctions are needed so that Russia doesn’t have the chance to extend this war in Europe.”


    Zelenskyy called on the Netherlands to enforce tougher sanctions against Russia, stop all business with the country and prepare to move away from using energy from Russia. The President also made it clear that more weapons were needed in order for Ukraine to continue its fight against Russia. “Ukraine thanks you for the support…but we need more," Zelenskyy said. "We need weapons to free our cities…you have that, and I hope you can help us win.”


    Finally, Zelenskyy said the Netherlands also had an important role to play in helping Ukraine rebuild, and explicitly called on Prime Minister Mark Rutte to use his influence over international institutions and help Ukraine claim a spot in the European Union: "Our EU membership is up to you."
    https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/d...ch-help-us-win

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    Russians should wake up, overthrow Putin and destroy Bolshevik cancer which devours their society:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ion-law-soviet

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    ^^^ Remember, even based on Russia's own Criminal Code, Putin is a criminal and should be promptly arrested:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legali...criminal_codes

    "Article 353 of the Russian Criminal Code prohibits planning, preparing, unleashing, or waging an aggressive war.[49]"

    ^^^ Can some freedom-loving Russian finally decommunise Russia and shoot this Marxist Bolshevik in the head?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    @Tomenable


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    ..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    ...Marxist Bolshevik in the head?
    The USA is these days more radical Marxist on the societal level (not economically!) than Russia ever was. Your comments make absolutely no sense.

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    german students who are muslim or even just speak a language that is from the near east should not visit poland if they do not want to be spat on

    https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zei...m-fluechtlinge

    our polish patriot is just another ethnocentrist. that's how it is in poland someone who isn't ethnocentrist isn't a patriot. funny that he is talking the same way about the west as putin is doing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    german students who are muslim or even just speak a language that is from the near east should not visit poland if they do not want to be spat on

    https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zei...m-fluechtlinge

    our polish patriot is just another ethnocentrist. that's how it is in poland someone who isn't ethnocentrist isn't a patriot. funny that he is talking the same way about the west as putin is doing it.
    The main difference to the Russians is that many Polish nationalists hate Russia, for obvious historical reasons, and would rather prefer West Ukraine being a Polish colony and Russia crippled. They dream of a Polish superpower in Eastern Europe. I don't blame them for having dreams and caring for their nation, but I have two problems:
    - when they lie and distort facts
    - when they are ready to start World War III and dragging the rest of Europe into this war.

    I completely understand the Polish position, but they are short-sighted, because of the longer term political, economical and possible military escalation and outcomes, which will all fall back on the Poles as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    The main difference to the Russians is that many Polish nationalists hate Russia, for obvious historical reasons, and would rather prefer West Ukraine being a Polish colony and Russia crippled. They dream of a Polish superpower in Eastern Europe. I don't blame them for having dreams and caring for their nation, but I have two problems:
    - when they lie and distort facts
    - when they are ready to start World War III and dragging the rest of Europe into this war.

    I completely understand the Polish position, but they are short-sighted, because of the longer term political, economical and possible military escalation and outcomes, which will all fall back on the Poles as well.
    Your agenda is even more short sighted, bow for the intrest of the Putin clan in the Kremlin. His reactionary agenda has to face a red line!

    On behalve of the megalomania dreams of an autocrat ordinary Ukrainian people are crushed (so fare the liberation of a brother folk) and the Russian folk is more and more repressed. They face body bags going home (mostly not the sons of the oligarchs) and an economic breakdown on top of it.

    The thing we must be worry of is that because Putin's army is so lousy organized and is not effective that bombing to ashes and before in the east and south of Ukraine will be intensified. Everything to prevent a loss in front of the neo czar. An upscaling even unto biological and nuclear weapons is still not out of reach.

    And what still is a thing that the Russian oligarchs, at least in the Netherlands, are still not totally stripped down.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Your agenda is even more short sighted, bow for intrest of the Putin clan in the Kremlin. His reactionary agenda has to face a red line!

    On behalve of the megalomania dreams of an autocrat ordinary Ukrainian people are crushed (so fare the liberation of a brother folk) and the Russian folk is more and more repressed. The face body bags going home (mostly not the sons of the oligarchs) and an economic breakdown.

    The thing we must be worry of is that because Putin's army is so lousy organized and is not effective that bombing to ashes and before in the east and south of Ukraine will be intensified. Everything to prevent a loss in front of the neo czar. An upscaling even unto biological and nuclear weapons is still not out of reach.

    And what still is a thing that the Russian oligarchs, at least in the Netherlands, are still not totally stripped down.....
    You completely ignore that this being the result of the Selenski regimes, the Ukrainian oligarchs and the US Biden administration got confrontational with Russia and sought the conflict. You constantly ignore that crucial fact.

    Russia just reacted to the provocation, aggression and attacks from the Ukrainian side. They didn't start this out of the blue, because of some sort of "madman Putin's plan". That's US nonsense propaganda and you just repeat it because you want to bring an independent Russia down and showed disrespect for the Russian - and recently the German people and their interests.

    Look at what the USA did, they caused this! Russia just reacted to their and the Selenski regimes transgressions and misbehaviour. You can't blame it all on the Russian side, that's a biased lie, objectively.

    But even if you don't care for the Russian people and the interests of the Russian state, or the atrocities of the Ukrainians and their corrupted regime, what's your solution to this conflict? Are you now on the "escalate it to World War III" party too? Have you lost your senses? The only way to de-escalate and save lifes is a peace deal, a diplomatic solution.
    And that's all Russia wanted, for 8 years, a fair compromise with Ukraine. They were fairly moderate in their approach and demands.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    You completely ignore that this being the result of the Selenski regimes, the Ukrainian oligarchs and the US Biden administration got confrontational with Russia and sought the conflict. You constantly ignore that crucial fact.

    Russia just reacted to the provocation, aggression and attacks from the Ukrainian side. They didn't start this out of the blue, because of some sort of "madman Putin's plan". That's US nonsense propaganda and you just repeat it because you want to bring an independent Russia down and showed disrespect for the Russian - and recently the German people and their interests.

    Look at what the USA did, they caused this! Russia just reacted to their and the Selenski regimes transgressions and misbehaviour. You can't blame it all on the Russian side, that's a biased lie, objectively.
    You completely ignore that Putin's aim is on his mind since the fall of the wall. That is the real picture you ignore.

    And you defend the so called "ethnocentric" interest of Russia. Mind you that is the interest pronounced by the Putin clan not by the ordinary Russian.

    The ordinary Russian had to face that the resources went to the military (what do you think these cruise missiles etc cost?). And Russia has a GDP of the Benelux but with a way way bigger population. This is clear economic hara kiri. Everything for the sake of the megalomaniac dream.

    I have several times stressed that the like in Russia the Ukrainian oligarchs are not really differentiated. So if Ukraine wants to be in the EU it has to get rid of those corrupt types.....Like Zelenski initial promised.

    But that is nothing compared to the aggression that the Ukraine has faced by the the Putin's kleptocrat in the Kremlin. No mercy let alone understanding for the aims of Putin and his fellow kleptocrats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    You completely ignore that Putin's aim is on his mind since the fall of the wall. That is the real picture you ignore.

    And you defend the so called "ethnocentric" interest of Russia. Mind you that is the interest pronounced by the Putin clan not by the ordinary Russian.

    The ordinary Russian had to face that the resources went to the military (what do you think these cruise missiles etc cost?). And Russia has a GDP of the Benelux but with a way way bigger population. This is clear economic hara kiri. Everything for the sake of the megalomaniac dream.

    I have several times stressed that the like in Russia the Ukrainian oligarchs are not really differentiated. So if Ukraine wants to be in the EU it has to get rid of those corrupt types.....Like Zelenski initial promised.

    But that is nothing compared to the aggression that the Ukraine has faced by the the Putin's kleptocrat in the Kremlin. No mercy let alone understanding for the aims of Putin and his fellow kleptocrats.
    Its Selenski and his regime which refused any peaceful, diplomatic solution, not Russia. And you keep saying that Putin had sinister plans for Ukraine and beyond, which is unfounded and unproven. Its in your imagination and a propaganda narrative. Russia just turned more aggressive AFTER the West blocked it, in all organisations and on all levels, only AFTER the NATO expansion and AFTER the US sponsored and supported "regime change" in Ukraine - it got only more aggressive recently AFTER Ukraine refused any serious talks and proceeded in getting armed up while attacking Donbas. This was all purely reactionary in context. Its the USA which had much wider and more megalomaniac plans and caused these frictions, not vice versa.

    You completely ignore the non-Western side and you completely deny the necessity for peace and diplomatic solutions. That kind of narrative is warmongering propaganda, its useless and dangeorus. Its what caused this mess.

  22. #1647
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Its Selenski and his regime which refused any peaceful, diplomatic solution, not Russia. And you keep saying that Putin had sinister plans for Ukraine and beyond, which is unfounded and unproven. Its in your imagination and a propaganda narrative. Russia just turned more aggressive AFTER the West blocked it, in all organisations and on all levels, only AFTER the NATO expansion and AFTER the US sponsored and supported "regime change" in Ukraine - it got only more aggressive recently AFTER Ukraine refused any serious talks and proceeded in getting armed up while attacking Donbas. This was all purely reactionary in context. Its the USA which had much wider and more megalomaniac plans and caused these frictions, not vice versa.

    You completely ignore the non-Western side and you completely deny the necessity for peace and diplomatic solutions. That kind of narrative is warmongering propaganda, its useless and dangeorus. Its what caused this mess.
    I just read an excellent article of Mykola Riabchuk, its clear that most of the time the orientation of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth in which nowadays Ukraine was a part, was differentiated from Moskwa. The Russian czars and the SU were always repressive towards the Ukrainians, the Ukrainian culture and language.

    So the Zelenski government and it's explicit orientation to the west and not to Russia has a deep and long history! The Ukrainian orientation was for most of time in history not likewise the Kremlin one. So a reason more not to bow for Putin's knut!

    You block that because you obviously believe in the Kremlin propaganda. False....

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Another article of Mykola Riabchuk is explaining it also:

    The war is a clash of the real world and Putin's imperial delirium

    In Russian historical mythology Ukraine is seen as part of the Russian identity, so its takeover was not only a matter of reestablishing the empire but primarily of recovering the Russian incomplete ‘self'. All those who do not fit into Putin's imaginary ideal are no true Russians but ‘national traitors', and no true Ukrainians but ‘neo-Nazis' and ‘American puppets'. The Russo-Ukrainian war is a clash between the real world of the Ukrainians and the imperial delirium, where Putin wants to fossilize them alongside the Russians, argues political analyst Mykola Riabchuk.

    by Mykola Riabchuk


    The officially announced goal of the Russian war with Ukraine, launched at dawn of February 24, was to protect ethnic Russians and Russian-speakers from the genocide at the hands of the neo-Nazi government in Kyiv. Officially, it was actually not a ‘war’ but a ‘peacekeeping operation’ at the request of the so-called ‘Donetsk and Luhansk people republics’. All Russian mass media, supervised by the government, strictly follow the crude propagandistic line: Russian troops purportedly carry out a regional rescue mission in Donbas, while in the rest of Ukraine they target only military objects.

    Insofar as there is no war, there should be no serious casualties. In a perverse denial, Russian authorities refuse to take back the corpses of killed soldiers, making Ukraine to appeal to the International Red Cross for help. Virtually all Russian soldiers captured in Ukraine claim they had no idea where they were going: officially, they were summoned for some military drills and felt shocked to find themselves deep in Ukraine.

    It seems that Putin’s Blitzkrieg has dramatically failed, and that Russia is dragged now into a protracted exhaustive war with grim consequences. This might explain Putin’s hysterical references to his coveted nuclear arsenal, as well as his sudden desire to negotiate with the people whom he labeled ‘neo-Nazis and drug-addicts on the American payroll’. He apparently fell victim of his own delusions and, worse, he has nothing learned from a similar failure of the ‘Russian Spring’ and the ‘Novorossiya’ project in 2014, when he tried to conquer southern Ukraine.

    Putin's Blitzkrieg has dramatically failed. Putin fell victim of his own delusions

    Then, like now, Putin was driven by the same desire to bring Ukraine back into Russia’s ‘legitimate’ sphere of influence, based on the false belief that Ukraine is not a nation, Ukrainians and Russians are ‘one people’, and that the ‘Great Russian’ (i.e. imperial) identity is unfathomable without the Ukrainian (‘Little Russian’) component. Ukraine’s own postcolonial ambiguity contributed to these delusions but their main source was a heavily mythologized self-image, developed in Russia throughout the 18th and 19th centuries, and adopted, nearly universally, in Western academia, media and pop culture.


    The myth of Rus
    The centerpiece of that idea - eventually disastrous for Ukraine - was an appropriation of the name Rus (a medieval entity, of which Ukraine was the core) by the Moscow Tsardom in the process of reinventing itself as Rus=Russia. This not only extended its mythical history with a few centuries but also legitimized its claims to the core lands of the former Rus owned at the time by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. It also, crucially, delegitimized the very existence of the inhabitants of those lands, Ukrainians and Belarusians, who were downgraded to regional subgroups and dialects of the Greater Russian nation.

    Falsified pedigrees are a widespread phenomenon, many nations use ‘invented traditions’ of various kinds, but not all of them have such a destructive, effectively ethnocidal effect on the subaltern nations. The imperial version of ‘Russian’ history was promoted by powerful imperial institutions and gained international recognition as an ‘objective’, presumably ‘scientific’ truth.

    In the historical myth Ukrainians and Belarusians were downgraded to subgroups of the Greater Russian Nation

    No alternative voices could undermine this knowledge as they were simply not heard, not even allowed to emerge. They were discredited and discarded ahead of any consideration; the discourse of normalcy pushed them away into the sphere of deviation. A renowned Canadian historian Orest Subtelny recollected bitterly how ‘well into the 1980s, Ukrainian history was considered not only a peripheral but even intellectually suspect area of specialization by many North American historians,’ as the assumption prevailed that ‘a historian of Ukraine was, almost by definition, a Ukrainian nationalist’.

    Recovering the Russian incomplete self
    This imperial idea survived the collapse of the Soviet Union and the emergence of the largely unknown new state – independent Ukraine. ‘A Nowhere Nation’, ‘A Nasty New Ukraine’, and ‘The Unwanted Step-Child of Soviet Perestroika’ were popular titles in reputable Western media that referred to that event. The myth was challenged and gradually eroded by new facts and developments but it was deeply entrenched and institutionalized, so that we still encounter its toxic relics and discursive minefields.

    In Putin’s Russia it was retrieved, revitalized and upgraded to the status of state ideology. Putin’s 2021 essay ‘On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians’ manifested both the high ideological significance of that myth and Putin’s personal obsession with Ukraine as its centerpiece.

    Ukraine was seen as a part of Russian identity, so its takeover was not (only) a matter of reestablishing the empire but (primarily) of recovering the Russian incomplete ‘self’. All other factors that are often invoked to explain Russian aggression are complementary but not decisive.

    What is striking in this obsession is a complete neglect of Ukrainians’ own views and desires. One reason for this might be typical for all dictator's mistrust in opinion surveys and, more generally, in people’s independent agency. People for them are merely subjects, a pliable material, manipulated by the tightly controlled mass media and constrained by selective repressions.


    Putin’s imagined ‘true’ Ukrainians
    But there might be a deeper reason for such a neglect – a neurotic denial of an uncomfortable reality. Putin, like many authoritarians, believe that he knows the people, he understands their true thoughts and wills much better than they themselves. He is confident that he knows the real Ukrainians as well as the real Russians, although they exist only in his imagination. All those who do not fit his imaginary ideal are not true Russians but ‘national traitors’ and ‘foreign agents’, and they are definitely not true Ukrainians but ‘neo-Nazis’, ‘American puppets’ and, as we have learnt recently, ‘drug addicts’.

    Back in 2014, one of Putins’ geopolitical guru's Aleksandr Dugin articulated these Manichean dialectics in a spectacular way. Being so shocked by the Ukrainian's resistance in the Donbas, he wrote on the Russian equivalent of Facebook: ‘I can’t believe these are Ukrainians. Ukrainians are wonderful Slavonic people. And this is a race of bastards that emerged from the sewer manholes... We should clean up Ukraine from the idiots. The genocide of these cretins is due and inevitable…’

    If reality does not conform a dictator's imagination, too bad for reality

    Today, after the Russian army encountered much stronger and better coordinated resistance than in 2014, and suffered much heavier losses, Putin employs virtually the same explanation: these are not the true Ukrainians of my imagination, of the imperial myth that I’m committed to. These are – Banderites [offspring of WWII fascist Stepan Bandera, ed.], neo-Nazis, bastards who keep the nice, Russia-loving Ukrainian people as hostages, and unleash the brotherly Ukrainian soldiers upon us. If reality does not conform a dictator's imagination, too bad for reality.


    A modern political nation
    What Putin does not understand, and the imperial myth precludes him from eventual understanding, is that Ukrainians live not in the 19th century of Russia but in the 21st century in Europe; that what unites them is primarily the future and not, like Russians, a nostalgic past; that they formed a political nation where all categories so dear to Mr Putin – like ‘blood and soil’, ‘ethnicity’, ‘faith’, ‘Slavonic brotherhood’ – are not the primary determinants of national loyalty and belonging. In fact, they are as irrelevant for their civic patriotism, as the categories of freedom and dignity for Putin's uncivic etatism.

    Most victims of Putin's attack in the south east are the Russian speakers he intends to 'protect'

    Independent Ukraine was conceived in 1991 as a civic nation with an Ukrainian ethno-cultural and linguistic core but extensive minority rights enshrined in the constitution, with universal citizenship granted to all the inhabitants of its territory, and no entries indicating ‘ethnicity’ in their passports or any other official documents. In a country where various ethnic groups, primarily Ukrainians and Russian, intermingled for centuries, and created hybrid identities through intermarriages, in- and out-migration, and assimilation, there are no clear boundaries between groups, and even the very notion of ‘ethnic group’ is vague and questionable.


    Most people are fluent in Ukrainian and Russian
    The standard divide for ‘Ukrainians’ and ‘Russians’, applied in censuses, is undermined by more subtle questions that offer a broader set of possible self-definitions: ‘equally Ukrainian and Russian’, ‘more Ukrainian than Russian’, ‘more Russian than Ukrainian’. Each subgroup appears to have a considerable number of self-declared members; the same with languages.

    In a country, where most people are fluent in both Ukrainian and Russian, and often shift from one language to another depending on the situation or the discussed topic, the notion of Russophones and Ukrainophones is also extremely vague and ambiguous. All Ukrainian presidents, up to Volodymyr Zelensky, officially spoke Ukrainian pretty well but in private preferred a habitual Russian (with the only exception of Viktor Yushchenko whose American wife from the Ukrainian diaspora simply didn't speak Russian)?


    Which 'Russian speakers' need Putin's 'protection'?
    It is highly unclear which people Putin intends to ‘protect’ if most victims of his attack in Ukraine’s south east are exactly the proverbial ‘Russian speakers’ that he allegedly so deeply cares about? And who are the Ukrainian soldiers that fight him now and speak Russian as fluently as Ukrainian, but overwhelmingly curse him in Russian for the sufferings he brought to their motherland?

    One may read the Russo-Ukrainian war as a clash of civilizations, of political systems, of values, of the past and the future, but also – as a clash of reality and virtuality, of the real world where Ukrainians live and the imperial delirium where Putin would like to fossilize them, together with the Russians. Indeed, the people who fight his troops all over Ukraine are not the true Ukrainians of his morbid imagination. And they will probably never be – because they are real.

    https://www.raamoprusland.nl/dossier...erial-delirium

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    german students who are muslim or even just speak a language that is from the near east should not visit poland if they do not want to be spat on

    https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zei...m-fluechtlinge

    our polish patriot is just another ethnocentrist. that's how it is in poland someone who isn't ethnocentrist isn't a patriot. funny that he is talking the same way about the west as putin is doing it.
    You must read even more of anti-Polish German propaganda. There are Kurds like you in Poland and they don't bother anyone:

    http://www.obywatelska.org.pl/?kurdowie-w-polsce,115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    You must read even more of anti-Polish German propaganda. There are Kurds like you in Poland and they don't bother anyone:

    http://www.obywatelska.org.pl/?kurdowie-w-polsce,115
    why should this be propaganda and what makes you think that i'm kurdish? sadly i can't understand polish so i don't know what they are talking about in those videos. the presence of a few hundred kurds in poland doesn't mean a lot.
    if you think that the simple presence of a certain ethnic group is proof enough then why do you keep saying how racist and antisemitic the average german still is? with that argumenation it would be at least 10 times worse in poland.

    what would the degenerate west or specifically the degenerate germans have to do to stop beeing degenerate? maybe you can sit together with Putin and the AfD and give them advices. i think you share quite a lot.

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