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Thread: Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

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    No, the Chinese explicitly think the USA was a great country until it became multiracial, and began promoting non-western values. As per the pentagon report states.

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    USA really genocided Native Americans. Even between 1880 and 1890 - during 10 years when there were no longer Indian Wars taking place (they pretty much ended until 1880) - Native American population in the U.S. declined by 20%, from 340,000 (in 1880) to 274,000 (in 1890).

    How was such a decline during that decade even possible? But it did take place. Probably due to abuse on reservations.
    There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    USA bad, also plz help
    Fixed that for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    No, the Chinese explicitly think the USA was a great country until it became multiracial, and began promoting non-western values. As per the pentagon report states.
    I don't think woke makes for them the difference between greatness, and if they think it was great than it said something about their level of communism don't you think? ;) And only Han Lives Matter ;) Besides that Pentagon is not the Chinese. So stays an interpretation.

    And why should you care if this was the case? Would you condemn woke even more with help of the Chinese? 'Look the Chinese already said....' I don't think this matter in the US debate, does it.

    And last but not least this is something of a different topic? I see no direct relationship with the topic at stake.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    I don't think woke makes for them the difference between greatness, and if they think it was great than it said something about their level of communism don't you think? ;) And only Han Lives Matter ;) Besides that Pentagon is not the Chinese. So stays an interpretation.

    And why should you care if this was the case? Would you condemn woke even more with help of the Chinese? 'Look the Chinese already said....' I don't think this matter in the US debate, does it.

    And last but not least this is something of a different topic? I see no direct relationship with the topic at stake.....
    Intentionally provoking internal discord is not an issue for you? :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Intentionally provoking internal discord is not an issue for you? :)
    It is, but the thread is not about Chinese let alone woke....or is Zelenski or Putin woke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    It is, but the thread is not about Chinese let alone woke....or is Zelenski or Putin woke
    Are you unable to understand what I am saying, or are you being obtuse on purpose?

    Also, don't backseat moderate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    It is, but the thread is not about Chinese let alone woke....or is Zelenski or Putin woke
    Selenski cooperates with American Big Tech and social engineering, while at the same time having practically deconstructed the Ukrainian democracy. Talking about ethnic minorities in a democracy, the Minsk II agreement did propose autonomy for Donbas. Instead of implementing it, he banned Russian as an official language, exerted massive pressure on Russian activists, including arrests and persecution, disappropriation, censorship and closed TV stations, newspapers, websites etc. That way he eliminated all "democratic" means for the pro-Russian Ukrainians to express and organise themselves, fight for their rights and demands, peacefully and democratically. Instead, he started the anti-Russian indoctrination, which caused the current phased state of the Ukraine against Russia.
    So if talking about a democratic way of dealing with the issue of pro-Russian and ethnic Russian people in Ukraine, Selenski eliminated that option altogether. The plan of his regime and the Western Ukrainian nationalists was, from the start, to cleanse Ukraine and expel or eliminate all pro-Russian activists and sentiments. For Donbas, this too would have meant mass expulsion, arrests, even executions. The Russian state just decided that he won't allow that and did interfere directly, after the Ukrainian side eliminated all paths to a peaceful and diplomatic reconciliation.
    Again, the diplomatic confrontation came from the Selenski regime, not Russia - they even attacked first, in Donbas, while being armed up and instructed by the US services and increasing the pressure on the remaining pro-Russian elements in Ukraine. There were no minority rights, autonomy or better self organisation of the Russians, instead they being banned, persecuted, arrested, some even murdered. Therefore don't talk about Ukrainian as if it would have allowed the Russians a democratic option, it blocked them all and they even broke the agreements made, like Minsk II.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Donbas according to the 2001 census had Ukrainian majority, and only around 1/3 of the population were Russians:

    http://2001.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/res...l/nationality/

    Which explains why separatists never managed to capture more than 1/3 of the area of Luhansk & Donetsk Oblasts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    haha so funny. once again showing me that i'm right about the polish mindset.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^^
    I posted it because of the part about math class being easier in France than in Ukraine.

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    Rumour has it some prices of goods are going to go up 20-50, percent in parts of Europe (Germany). I'm wondering if this might spread as both sides dig in for the long run. Maybe it would be a good time to stock up on essentials 6 months-1 year just in case this really gets out of hand, and there is no meaningful good faith bargaining.
    Suum cuique---Rubiconem suum


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    Poland offers to host US nukes

    Deputy Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski says stationing US nukes in eastern Europe would “make sense”

    Jaroslaw Kaczynski, Poland’s Deputy Prime Minister, has spoken in favor of US nuclear weapons being deployed in eastern Europe, citing Russia’s military offensive against Ukraine.

    In an interview with Germany’s Die Welt news outlet published on Sunday, Kaczynski said that “fundamentally, it makes sense to expand nuclear sharing to the eastern flank,” apparently referring to a NATO concept by which “the benefits, responsibilities and risks of nuclear deterrence are shared across the Alliance.” The Polish official noted, however, that such an initiative should come from the US.

    On top of that, Kaczynski called on the military bloc to set up a new command center in Poland, akin to the one in the Dutch town of Brunssum, “from where joint NATO deployments will be planned and conducted.” According to the deputy, that would send a clear signal to Russia that the military alliance is now present in Eastern Europe at command level as well.

    In addition to the adoption of the NATO concept, Warsaw “would welcome it if the Americans in the future increased their presence in Europe from the current 100,000 soldiers to 150,000,” Kaczynski in this instance citing “Russia’s growing aggressiveness” as the main threat. The Polish official proceeded to break down the numbers, explaining that “75,000 troops should be permanently stationed on the eastern flank, that is, on the border with Russia.” He also told Die Welt that Warsaw would want to see 50,000 US service personnel in the Baltic states and Poland alone.

    Kaczynski’s calls for Washington to beef up its military contingent on the European continent comes despite NATO having already agreed to deploy additional battle groups to Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia.

    Part of the deputy premier’s interview was devoted to criticism of Germany over its refusal to impose an embargo on Russian oil, and to the extent of support it is providing to Ukraine. He told journalists that he was “very unhappy about the German government’s behavior,” adding that Berlin “could deliver more weapons,” as well as “speak out in the EU in favor of an oil embargo.” Kaczynski also opined that Russian oil could be replaced with relative ease, acknowledging at the same time that finding a viable substitute for Moscow’s natural gas was far more problematic.

    “You cannot continuously support a great power like Russia with billions out of energy sales,” the 72-year-old official insisted, describing the current state of affairs as “unacceptable from a political and moral point of view.” According to Poland’s deputy prime minister, “Germany ought to finally take an unequivocal stance on this.”

    Kaczynski accused the German federal government of turning a blind eye for years to “what Russia under Putin is doing.” He concluded that “it has panned out badly, as we now see,” adding that it was not at all “difficult to foresee” where the situation was heading.

    Since the start of Russia’s military campaign against Ukraine on February 24, the European Union has slapped Moscow with unprecedented economic sanctions, targeting numerous government and private entities, individual business people and entire industries. Yet, Poland, the Baltic states and Ukraine are calling on Brussels to go even further and ditch Russian hydrocarbons altogether, which are currently exempt from the bloc’s sanctions. However, Germany – Europe’s major industrial powerhouse – has so far opposed the total phasing out of Russian gas over concerns that it could wreak havoc on the German economy, with 34% of the gas consumed in the country last year coming from Russia.

    Berlin has made it clear that it will be gradually weaning itself off Russian energy, looking for alternative sources though adding, however, that such a transition cannot happen overnight.

    In late March, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki vowed to stop importing Russian gas, oil and coal by the end of the year, with Lithuania, too, announcing on Saturday that it has ceased buying Russian gas “from this month on.”

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    Ex-UN prosecutor urges global arrest warrant for Putin

    The former chief prosecutor of U.N. war crimes tribunals for Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia has called for an international arrest warrant to be issued for Russian President Vladimir Putin

    ByThe Associated Press
    2 April 2022, 17:24

    GENEVA -- The former chief prosecutor of United Nations war crimes tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda has called for an international arrest warrant to be issued for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    “Putin is a war criminal,” Carla Del Ponte told the Swiss newspaper Le Temps in an interview published Saturday.

    In interviews given to Swiss media to mark the release of her latest book, the Swiss lawyer who oversaw U.N. investigations in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia said there were clear war crimes being committed in Ukraine.

    She said she was particularly shocked by the use of mass graves in Russia's war on Ukraine, which recalls the worst of the wars in the former Yugoslavia.

    “I hoped never to see mass graves again,” she told the newspaper Blick. “These dead people have loved ones who don’t even know what’s become of them. That is unacceptable.”

    Other war crimes she identified in Ukraine included attacks on civilians, the destruction of civilian buildings and even the demolishing of entire villages.

    She said the investigation in Ukraine would be easier than that in Yugoslavia because the country itself had requested an international probe. The current ICC chief prosecutor, Karim Khan, visited Ukraine last month.

    If the ICC finds proof of war crimes, she said, “you must go up the chain of command until you reach those who took the decisions.”

    She said it would be possible to bring even Putin to account.

    “You mustn’t let go, continue to investigation. When the investigation into Slobodan Milosevic began, he was still president of Serbia. Who would have thought then that he would one day be judged? Nobody,” she told Blick.

    Del Ponte added that investigations should be carried out into possible war crimes committed by both sides, pointing also to reports about the alleged torture of some Russian prisoners of war by Ukrainian forces.

    This story corrects Del Ponte's title to chief prosecutor of U.N. war crimes tribunals.

    https://abcnews.go.com/International...putin-83831088

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vallicanus View Post
    Good luck with that!
    Ideally but it is not going to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tunona View Post
    Putler's demented robot ... Anything else about the Bolshevik demented propaganda in the Siberian bunkers?
    China and India trading with Russia, oil, natural gas, fertilizer like potash, minerals like palladium niobium, and farm commodities wheat,corn sunflower oil etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    ^^^
    I posted it because of the part about math class being easier in France than in Ukraine.
    of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    ^^^
    I posted it because of the part about math class being easier in France than in Ukraine.
    Poles and Ukrainians have generally better math levels. It was already true in the 1980's.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Are you unable to understand what I am saying, or are you being obtuse on purpose?

    Also, don't backseat moderate.
    What you see is what you get. No mind ****s etc.

    May be you suppose that 'the world' is obsessed with woke. I don't think so.

    And the Chinese may be the least, may be they observe that woke and the whole cultural war in the US is something that weakens the US.

    But as such is that mostly an US thing, identity politics and such like is not a Chinese preoccupation. I guess no connection no affinity. Other side of the moon....

    And honestly all that woke stuff and that cultural war some find their own navel so important that they forget that there is such a war going which in my opinion are about completely different things....and that is something that sometimes bothers me. Woke, the Chinese, have nothing whatsoever to do with this conflict, but it has to be about it anyway, because the navel is more important. Personally, that bothers me terribly. It seems cocky to me. That's my honest opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    What you see is what you get. No mind ****s etc.

    May be you suppose that 'the world' is obsessed with woke. I don't think so.

    And the Chinese may be the least, may be they observe that woke and the whole cultural war in the US is something that weakens the US.

    But as such is that mostly an US thing, identity politics and such like is not a Chinese preoccupation. I guess no connection no affinity. Other side of the moon....

    And honestly all that woke stuff and that cultural war some find their own navel so important that they forget that there is such a war going which in my opinion are about completely different things....and that is something that sometimes bothers me. Woke, the Chinese, have nothing whatsoever to do with this conflict, but it has to be about it anyway, because the navel is more important. Personally, that bothers me terribly. It seems cocky to me. That's my honest opinion.
    I agree with the first part, but the later one not. The Chinese don't care for that woke brainwashing and pseudoreligion in the USA, which spills, unfortunately, over the Atlantic to Europe too. All that crap and nonsense, which undermines the Western societies. But its "homemade", has nothing to do with Russia and the Chinese, which, if anything, rather oppose it.

    But China has a play in this conflct, not as big as the USA, quite obviously, but it was the Chinese alternative to humiliating West which brought Russia further away from other Europeans. They kind of offered an alternative, which Russia began to trust, so they didn't had to care about the disappointing and treacherous West any more. Like this is a different card.

    And China was involved, both in Russia and Ukraine, big time. And they have no interest, whatsoever, of a weakened Russia or a totally Americanised Ukraine. Ukraine was a good partner for them, for India even more so, but not as important and more problematic than Russia.

    The Ukraine conflict is the first conflict of the emerging blocks, possibly, and this became very apparent. If Russia fails without collapsing, which looks most likely at this point, after a "Russia is half-way victorious", but won't be accepted by the West as before, it will be even more dependent on China, that's for sure in both most likely scenarios.

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    They oppose it for themselves, duh!

    They promote it for the west, you know their rivals?

    Why else would there be thousands of bots doing exactly that from those countries?!

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    I guess the 2013 Obama era U.S. Pentagon report about China must be nonsense...

    Sure I guess it must be a coincidence that things have played out exactly as it has stated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    What you see is what you get. No mind ****s etc.

    May be you suppose that 'the world' is obsessed with woke. I don't think so.

    And the Chinese may be the least, may be they observe that woke and the whole cultural war in the US is something that weakens the US.

    But as such is that mostly an US thing, identity politics and such like is not a Chinese preoccupation. I guess no connection no affinity. Other side of the moon....

    And honestly all that woke stuff and that cultural war some find their own navel so important that they forget that there is such a war going which in my opinion are about completely different things....and that is something that sometimes bothers me. Woke, the Chinese, have nothing whatsoever
    to do with this conflict, but it has to be about it anyway, because the navel is more important. Personally, that bothers me terribly. It seems cocky to me. That's my honest opinion.
    You don't represent the world, and you don't speak for the world. In fact, I am not even sure you know how to properly read in English, based on your responses to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    You don't represent the world, and you don't speak for the world. In fact, I am not even sure you know how to properly read in English, based on your responses to me.
    @Northerner,

    I dislike coming off this harsh, so allow me to explain better when I have time.

    I do think this deserves it's own thread as you said (originally it was a response to Tomenable) . I'll get to that later, when I have a chance.

    Peace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I agree with the first part, but the later one not. The Chinese don't care for that woke brainwashing and pseudoreligion in the USA, which spills, unfortunately, over the Atlantic to Europe too. All that crap and nonsense, which undermines the Western societies. But its "homemade", has nothing to do with Russia and the Chinese, which, if anything, rather oppose it.

    But China has a play in this conflct, not as big as the USA, quite obviously, but it was the Chinese alternative to humiliating West which brought Russia further away from other Europeans. They kind of offered an alternative, which Russia began to trust, so they didn't had to care about the disappointing and treacherous West any more. Like this is a different card.

    And China was involved, both in Russia and Ukraine, big time. And they have no interest, whatsoever, of a weakened Russia or a totally Americanised Ukraine. Ukraine was a good partner for them, for India even more so, but not as important and more problematic than Russia.

    The Ukraine conflict is the first conflict of the emerging blocks, possibly, and this became very apparent. If Russia fails without collapsing, which looks most likely at this point, after a "Russia is half-way victorious", but won't be accepted by the West as before, it will be even more dependent on China, that's for sure in both most likely scenarios.
    I think this will be the case. As Russia is already setting steps into a totalitarian regime just like China. And if Europe will succeed in to be less dependance from Russian oil and gas there will be less to share....

    Chinese have also an interest in war in the Ukrain because of Tawain.

    And to me 'woke' are 'hard boiled identity thinkers', more Gramsci (cultural) than Marx (materialistic). And they resemble very close the Dugin like types that's pretty obvious to me. Dugin and also Putin are woke (hard boiled identity politics) from the fare right

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