Politics Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

Nations which are stuck in this unluckly part of Europe between Russia and Germany - between the hammer and the anvil - must unite to survive.


The European Balance of Power was shaken when the old Rzeczpospolita disappeared from the map.


Our old Commonwealth, if restored, will become the third big power, between Russia and Germany.


Several small & weak countries cannot survive between Russia and Germany. Only a big strong country can survive in this unlucky part of Europe.


Of course I'm not talking about short-term survival - within our lifetime - but in centuries and millenia to come.


That's why we should follow Zelensky's advice - "together there is 90 million of us" - and restore our old Union.

plus Królewiec (temporary called: Kaliningrad)

https://www.islamtimes.org/en/news/985875/poland-should-claim-russian-region-general-says
https://www.rp.pl/swiat/art35950691-rosjanie-komentuja-slowa-gen-skrzypczaka-o-kaliningradzie
 
For Poland this war can have only three outcomes:

1) Russia conquers Ukraine - in such case Poland will inherit Ukraine's role of being a buffer state between NATO / EU and Russia.

2) Stalemate and status quo ante bellum, future will remain uncertain (round 2 of the conflict will be inevitable), Ukraine will remain the buffer state between NATO / EU and Russia.

3) Ukraine wins and Zelensky's plan that "there is 90 million of us" becomes reality - our old Rzeczpospolita will be restored.

Option 1) is disastrous for us. Option 2) is bad due to uncertain future (in several or a few dozen years, Russia will attempt war again).

If Russia wins, Poland will play the same role as Ukraine did since 1991 until 2014 - we will be a pawn in chess game of great powers.
 
In case of 1) Poland will become an object, a pawn of international games of great powers, not a subject who also plays in the game.

We will inherit the status of Ukraine (which was just a pawn and an object in the game between great powers in years 1991 - 2014).
 
Outcome 3):

Closer integration between Poland-Ukraine-Belarus-Baltic States, reclaiming our old role as "3rd power between Germany & Russia" - is the best for us.
 
Some say that Russia is committed to moving NATO away from its own borders - and this is supposedly Russia's main goal. But the thing is, when Russia annexes Ukraine into the Russian Federation, they will directly border a NATO country - Poland. Which means that after Russian annexation of Ukraine, Russia will start demanding that Poland must leave NATO - in order to push away NATO from its new borders.


And Putin's goal is to annex Ukraine into the Russian Federation - perhaps as one of its autonomous republic (such as Mari El, Udmurtia, Kalmykia, Chechnya, etc.). Just read his July 2021 essay, or listen to his speech at the beginning of the invasion. This is his goal.
 
The most likely outcome at this point is that Russia conquers Ukraine up to the Dnepr and cuts it off from the Black Sea, making it a landlocked rump state. At this point, they will finally threaten Kiev, and threaten to lay it in ashes, which will be a major climax, which could led to the next escalation level.
Then it will be crucial if the Ukrainians finally agree on taking negotiations seriously. So it really looks like a demarcation line, cutting Ukraine in about half and off from the sea. Then there will be a truce, if the Ukrainians don't come up with a peace offer which is even remotely acceptable before. Kind of the Cyprus situation, which was pretty much the same thing in the Mediterranaen. But since it was Turkey, a NATO member and essential partner for the USA and Israel, back in the days, nothing was done.

The outcome most likely will be similar in this war.

Already Poland and Hungary made some demands, even if hidden, for territories they would like to have (back). I haven't heard anything from Romania, but obviously Romania would have potential claims too, like the Northern part of Bukovina in particular:
250px-Bucovina_Romania_Ukraine.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...kraine.png/250px-Bucovina_Romania_Ukraine.png

Ukraine really was a cobbled together federal state of the Soviet Union between World War I and II. There really was nothing like that state, in its current borders, before.

In Transcarpathia, there is also the Rusyn movement:
Ukrainian academician, doctor of historical sciences, head of department of National Minorities of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine Institute of Political and Ethno-national research, May Panchuk explained that soon after dissolution of the Soviet Union and during the 1991 Ukrainian referendum, there was provided additional question for Zakarpattia residents only whether they wish to obtain a self-governed territory within Ukraine.[80] It triggered Rusyns to create their own political parties and movements.[80] Already in March 1992 the recently created "Subcarpathian republican party" published its program with first elements of separatism: create independent, neutral "Republic Subcarpathian Ruthenia" just as Switzerland; receive full political and economic independence; recognize Rusyn people as a full-scale nationality among other nations.[80] The party contained a well expressed Kremlin orientation and did not hide its connections with pro-Russians elements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns

The core of the Ukrainian nationalism, the key group which pushes the issue against Russia, really is in the more Northern West of the country. That's the core Ukrainian territory, on this map in red:

http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.ft.com%2Fbeyond-brics%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F05%2Fukraine-ethnolinguistic-map-e1400514503675.png


Elections of 2014:
1024px-Ukraine_Wahlen_2004_2.png


Russia clearly concentrates on the Russian, at least formerly pro-Russian parts of the country. I think the West will only be attacked and occupied, even if the Russians could do it, if the Ukrainians don't stop to attack. They really won't march to Lwiw, unless they have to, even if they could, what they probably can't without heavy losses, but that's debatable.

I know the people in these Russian speaking parts might think not that much pro-Russian any more, at the moment, after years of conflict, indoctrination, all non-Ukrainian nationalist voices being silenced and this massive anti-Russian propaganda. But that doesn't matter, it's what the Russians just do right now, for the better or worse of things.

Everybody expects even stiffer and more prolonged resistance in the West, which just means even more death and destruction, even a greater risk of a bigger escalation. So basically nobody really wants that, but to prevent it, there need to be negotiations at some point.
 
Some say that Russia is committed to moving NATO away from its own borders - and this is supposedly Russia's main goal. But the thing is, when Russia annexes Ukraine into the Russian Federation, they will directly border a NATO country - Poland. Which means that after Russian annexation of Ukraine, Russia will start demanding that Poland must leave NATO - in order to push away NATO from its new borders.


And Putin's goal is to annex Ukraine into the Russian Federation - perhaps as one of its autonomous republic (such as Mari El, Udmurtia, Kalmykia, Chechnya, etc.). Just read his July 2021 essay, or listen to his speech at the beginning of the invasion. This is his goal.

You have to consider the distance from Russias core zones. It doesn't matter whether a friendly state is in between or its actual Russian territory. Crucial its not controlled by hostile elements, which the Selenski regime under US guide did constitute.

Its the same with the debate I had with Northerner, when I compared it with a broken marriage and the belongings of the husband being still in the house - or the house itself. Same here: As long as they were married, friendly neighbours, it doesn't really matter that the Ukraine ruled over Russians, that they controlled one of the most important bases.
It did matter, when they tried to run over to the sworn enemy, tried to become a member of a hostile club - hostile not because of Russia, but because they did exclude and hurt Russia.

Like Russia tried to get the same agreement Ukraine tried to make, with the EU. The EU declined, not giving Russia the same chance to participate. This led to the original escalaton in 2014: The EU offered Ukraine favourable treaties, but declined the same conditions to Russia. The Ukrainians started to revolt, when the pro-Russian president had to deny the agreement, to not make Russia stand alone and against it.

Once the marriage was broken, it mattered that some crucial strategical, economic and ethnic territories belonged to this cobbled together state of Ukraine. Before it was largely irrelevant, because they were friendly, cooperating states, the borders were open etc.

You see how Crimea would have been taken away from the Russians, and once they took control over Crimea, they could be cut off there, even the crucial water supply, not talking about the land traffic. That would be a huge problem in any conflict, in which the Ukraine would side clearly with the Western alliance. Its simply unacceptable.

A neutral Ukraine, which would still keep up open borders and traffic, recognise the Crimea status and Russian minorities, I mean for god's sake, they even tried to ban the Russian language from the official Ukraine's administration and state! Everything the Ukrainian regime, especially the Selenski regime, did, was completely unacceptable for the Russians, I mean Russians, any Russian which cares for its people and state, not just Putin.

There would have been so many ways to act differently, more conciliatory, but there were these US agents and Ukrainian nationalists which didn't care, which used rough measures before Russia started to get rough. It was all their fault and the Ukrainians even realised that, they voted for Selenski to come to peaceful terms with Russia. Instead he did the dirty job for the oligarchs and the USA!

To sum it up: Just look at the map of Ukraine, its ethnic, religious and political composition. A complete breakaway from the Russian sphere had to cause trouble. Strategically, the Ukraine border is too close and to long to be ever successfully defended if the situation with "the West" would escalate. So its kind of a preventive war to keep things simple and straight too.
The Dnepr border is defensible and ethnically more reasonable. Obviously the Russians will try to get Odessa and the Southern Russian territories too, make Ukraine landlocked. But that's entirely Selenskis fault, because he refused to negotiate, to come to terms. He would have gotten very favourable terms, even if he or the nationalists might not have looked at it that way. I'm not sure he will get the chance for such favourable terms again.
And to change that, from the American adventurers perspective would mean World War III, which is even more insane.

The best Ukraine could hope for was:
- promised, lasting neutral state
- accept Crimea
- guarantee Crimea land traffice and water supply
- accept Donbas autonomy, its departure to Russia

That was, by and large, the status before the escalation anyway, Ukraine would have just needed to accept it, and the West had to lift the sanctions. They refused, they prepared for a war in Donbas, already attacked the people there and proceeded in arming up, which led to this escalation.

Now its questionable whether the Russians will leave the Eastern and Southern parts of the current state of Ukraine, once they conquered it with blood losses. Because a land bridge to Crimea, for starters, is better than a guarantee for traffic and water supply which might be broken by the next Ukrainian government.

And if anything, a new Ukraine without the Eastern provinces will become even more radical anti-Russian, because its more reduced to the core zone of Ukrainian nationalism, than the Ukraine was in 2014 or even in 2021. To leave any Russians and pro-Russians in such a state, which refuses to make peace with Russia, won't be acceptable. Like I wrote before, the clock is ticking for Selenski.
 
A final note to the Ukrainian atrocities against ethnic Russians, pro-Russian activists and recently the captured Russian soldiers, but even before the captured Russian separatists in the last years: Again the mainstream media is not reporting like it should! Its the same as with the Islamic state in Syria, when they beheaded, tortured, burnt, mutilated and raped non-Sunni Syrian inhabitants on a grande scale, even posting videos of their gruesome actions! The West still blamed the Syrians for defending themselves from this aggression.

Here its the same, the evidence for Ukrainain atrocities is mounting, while Russians being blamed on "war crimes" and "butchery" for using regular military means to break the Ukrainian army's resistance. Its such a blatant hypocrisy, just disgusting! The torture and mutilate Russians, they laugh about it, film it and publish it, and the Western media and politicians say nothing! Blame the Russians for war crimes they didn't commit?!
It's a total shame!

And regardless what anybody says, there is no justification for torturing, mutilating and gruesomely, bestially killing Russian soldiers and activists.
This sadistic frenzy, this lust for making people truly suffer is absolutely abhorrent. I know they were doing it in Donbas, but now they do it on a much bigger scale, even to regular Russian soldiers. No excuse for that kind of behaviour. And they are even arrogant and stupid enough to publish it. It's unbeliebale.

That will backfire on themselves, on Ukrainians which get captured by the Russians, on how the Russians treat them. They want a dirty partisan war, they might get it.
The worst part is that innocent Russian and Ukrainian soldiers, civilians, will suffer because of their actions. Because of what they do. But just like the USA, they don't care for people, for the consequences of what they are doing.

This is the country and military for which the West should start World War III?
 
Riverman,

This map shows a comparison of number of Russian-speakers vs. Ukrainian-speakers in the Russian Empire in year 1897:

1) Counties (districts) where there were more Russian-speakers than Ukrainian-speakers = brown color

2) Counties (districts) where there were more Ukrainian-speakers than Russian-speakers = violet color

alOgtsV.png


^^^
In Odessa District Russian-speakers dominated only in the main city itself. In rural areas and other towns of the District:

- 21,833 Russian-speakers

Versus:

- 86,616 Ukrainian-speakers
 
^^^ BTW as you can see even Western Crimea (Yevpatoria District) was more Ukrainian than Russian.

Here are the details about rural areas of Odessa District:

bUP9TT2.png


And in Yevpatoria District of Western Crimea there were:

- 13,345 Ukrainian-speakers

Versus:

- 11,107 Russian-speakers

=====

In neighboring Perekop District (north Crimea) there were:

- 11,743 Russian-speakers

Versus:

11,316 Ukrainian-speakers

So pretty much 50/50.
 
Riverman,

This map shows a comparison of number of Russian-speakers vs. Ukrainian-speakers in the Russian Empire in 1897:

You know that maps from the 19th century looked different in many regions, just view at such maps from the German perspective of things...

Anyway, I always said that a neutral Ukraine, with Donbas & Crimea going to Russia would be a fair deal and the best Ukraine could hope for. Now they might get less, or we have a 3rd World War and its all because of Selenski and Biden allying up to hurt Russia.

If the election in the USA wouldn't have been that skewed, by this total media phasing and bias against Trump, if Trump would still be president, all of that would have never happened. Because he would have made clear, to this corrupt regime in Ukraine, that if they want to confront Russia, if they want to attack the Russians, they are on their own - and in Europe, besides probably Poland, nobody would have given them the kind of support they needed to feel confident they could stand Russia. The whole war would have been prevented.

But since Biden owed the regional plutocrats a lot, they saved his election by keeping their mouths shut and humiliating Trump, and by his personal hate on Putin and the Russians, he started this conflict. And finally, while he approaches the senile and even worse stage of mental capability, he speaks the truth, about his motives, the character he has.

If you listen to Trump at minute 2:00, he is the absolute voice of reason in this mess:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfEP3gbHPDc

These maniacs just pressed the war against Russia and jeopardised Ukraine, ruined the lifes of so many. And they have the guts to blame it all on "madman Putin" alone! It's just so dishonest and treacherous. They started wars all along, for making "regime changes", and this will be the end of US dominance, because no country with a reasonable leadership, democratic or not, looks at this with anything else but despise, because you never know what the US cowboys do next.
They finished off democratic regimes often enough and replaced it with dictatorships! So not even that is the truth or something the USA did at any point of its history. Its all brute geopolitics, its about having vassals all around the world. And the world if fed up with this. The alliance against it is growing, because nobody wants to be the next victim of such a "policy".

Thank god that Biden is in this mental condition, so the world can hear it from his own mouth, from the head of the "Liberal Hegemon". No conspiracy, no hidden agenda, they spoke out, finally, so the whole world can see!

The Dollar Empire will gone in latest a decade, that's the final blow!
 
You know that maps from the 19th century looked different in many regions

Maybe in many regions, but not in the regions of Eastern Ukraine and Southern Ukraine.

There were no any mass expulsions of Ukrainians from there between 1898 and 2014.
 
Germans were not majority in any county in Russia. The highest percentage was in Kamyshin County - 40.3% of inhabitants:

ofhVDTq.png
 
Germans were not majority in any county in Russia. The highest percentage was in Kamyshin County - 40.3% of inhabitants:

I wasn't speaking about Russia, obviously, but Central Europe, especially todays Poland, Czechia, Hungary, Slovakia and beyond. Northern East Prussia/Kaliningrad is the only actual "Russian" province which would fall in this category. But that's the past, we're talking about the present situation of things.

And fact is, the claim Ukraine had on the East was always weak and being primarily held up by all sides, because there were practically no closed borders to Russia anyway. If Ukraine would close up and block Russia, obviously this would change things completely.

You might compare it with the situation of Germans in Bohemia, Moravia, Czech Silesia and Slovakia. As long as these territories were Austro-Hungarian, it didn't really matter whether these territories were actually part of a German state or not, because they were part of a quasi German state anyway.
But when Austria broke up, and new borders were drawn, by the victors, suddenly these German speakers became minorities in their own lands, suppressed by a non-German goverment and suddenly it became an issue. Peaceful demonstrator got killed and imprisoned, the Austrian government blocked from any access to its former citizens. Same here with Ukraine, when they started to press on Russians under West Ukrainian nationalist and US influence. It was no issue before, when they were friendly states, when there was no suppression of the Russians and no threat to the state of Russia. But when Ukraine switched sides and became hostile and suppressive, things changed suddenly and completely.

They banned Russian as an official language, they imprisoned Russian activists, banned Russian movements, disappropriated pro-Russian activists, banned media and TV stations etc, etc.

The whole country got cleansed and purged by this Selenski regime, all this happened in preparation of their attack on Donbas, to phase society for the war. Russia just started first and escalated to the next level, but the current conflict was started by Selenski, who was voted by the Ukrainians to make peace with Russia - which he never even tried.

Fact is, no matter how anybody would draw an ethnic-political map of Ukraine and Russia, it would never be the borders of pre-2014. That's just a given. And if the Ukrainians switch sides, like they can do, I too think they have to right to do, but they have to make an agreement at the very least with the Russians, which respects their most basic interests and those of the Russians in the East. They did not, there you go...
 
Pre-WW2 borders in Czechoslovakia were not drawn along ethnic lines, because Sudetenland was given to Czechoslovakia.

However in Poland pre-WW2 borders were drawn along ethnic lines, and actually the Polish-speaking minority on the German side of the border (especially in West Upper Silesia) was more numerous than the German-speaking minority on the Polish side of the border.

Despite having such ethnically fair borders, Germany still wanted more Lebensraum and started WW2.
 
@Riverbot

Whatever!

Putin invaded Ukraine without a declaration of war and has brutalised the civilian population there with millions displaced.

You moan about so-called atrocities in Donbas.

Putin's barbarity is on another LEVEL.
 
@Riverbot

Whatever!

Putin invaded Ukraine without a declaration of war and has brutalised the civilian population there with millions displaced.

You moan about so-called atrocities in Donbas.

Putin's barbarity is on another LEVEL.

The Ukrainians started to brutalise the civilians in Donbas first, that's the starting point!

There is no justification for torture and mutilation. The only possible, imaginable, justification someone might come up, potentially, is that a person did that too to one of his own. Kind of mirror penalty. The other case might be information, crucial, life saving information in an interrogation. Even these two "justifications" are questionable and being denied by any "Liberal law", human rights, martial law etc.

There is, from my point of view, no other justification at all, for causing, deliberately, pain and suffering on a person, mutilating and hurting it, other than in combat.

This is the other level. Because fighting, even killing, for a concrete, understandable goal, with the force being limited to reach the goal, is a completely different level than deliberateley torturing and mutilating people!

War is war and the Russians didn't do, up to this point, anything which isn't in the limits of military necessity. In a war caused by the actions of the Selenski regime minimum as much as by what Putin did.

If a bomb hits a civilian building, because military targets are close by, its a completely different thing than torturing and mutiliting, deliberately, helpless people!

The barbarism is in torturing and mutilating helpless people for no good reason. There is no justification for that, never.
 
@Riverman I guess we will see what happens this week(see below). I'm taking precautions and getting rid of unnecessary credit cards, paying off credit card debt, and any bills(getting food for storage). Who knows what will happen.

Putin has pointed out that Russia is not running a charity. Among the hostile and unfriendlies?(see Trudeau's reception at the EU -- Croatia minister pointing out facts),

wants energy and other agreements to be honored in Russian rubles, since the declaration of economic embargo and seizure of Russian assets. I think he has a good point.

https://www.usnews.com/news/busines...jects-russias-demand-to-pay-for-gas-in-rubles

Germany’s energy minister says the Group of Seven major economies have agreed to reject Moscow’s demand to pay for Russian natural gas exports in rubles.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/putin-says-russia-will-start-selling-gas-unfriendly-countries-roubles-2022-03-23/

Russian gas accounts for some 40% of Europe's total consumption. EU gas imports from Russia this year have fluctuated between 200 million to 800 million euros ($880 million) a day.

 
Pre-WW2 borders in Czechoslovakia were not drawn along ethnic lines, because Sudetenland was given to Czechoslovakia.

However in Poland pre-WW2 borders were drawn along ethnic lines, and actually the Polish-speaking minority on the German side of the border (especially in West Upper Silesia) was more numerous than the German-speaking minority on the Polish side of the border.

Despite having such ethnically fair borders, Germany still wanted more Lebensraum and started WW2.


That's a completely different, complex and unpleasant debate, but just one thing to add: You know very well that one of the major issues was Danzig, and Danzig was without a doubt a German city, wanted to be part of Germany, would have voted for Germany, but wasn't allowed to join Germany. And the other being the "Polish corridor", which was mostly given to Poland so the new state had its own access to the sea, just like Danzig should have remained a "free city", even though the inhabitants had other preferences, like mentioned.

With that I'm not saying that Germany would have become peaceful and wouldn't have started any war, because we all know about Hitlers wider plans, but these were the issues with Poland, the primary reasons for the conflict with the Poles. The conflict over Danzig was not even an exclusively "Nazi issue", because there were troubles before:

The American president Woodrow Wilson had issued a set of war aims known as the 14 Points on 8 January 1918.[1] Point 13 called for Polish independence to be restored after the war and for Poland to have "free and secure access to the sea", a statement that implied the German deep-water port of Danzig located at a strategical location where a branch of the river Vistula flowed into the Baltic Sea should become part of Poland.[1] At the Paris peace conference in 1919, of the "Big Three" leaders, Wilson and the French premier Georges Cl?menceau supported the Polish claim to Danzig, but the British Prime Minister David Lloyd George was opposed under the grounds the population of Danzig was about 90% German. In a compromise, it was agreed that Danzig would become a Free City that would belong to neither Germany nor Poland, but the latter was to have special rights in the city. The Polish delegation to the Paris peace conference led by Roman Dmowski had asked for the cessation of Danzig to Poland, and within Poland the creation of the Free City was widely seen as a betrayal of Point 13.[2] Agreements such as the Paris convention of 1920 gave Poland certain rights with regards to the foreign relations of the Free City.[3] Throughout the interwar period, it was widely believed that Poland was looking for any excuse to annex Danzig, and the movement of Polish military forces into the Free City was always the cause of much tension.[2] The population of Danzig, which was 90% German at the time, never reconciled themselves to their separation from Germany and throughout the interwar period, the municipal authorities of the Free City took every opportunity to press the case for a return to the Reich.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danzig_crisis_(1932)

It was a German-Polish issue, and one of the main reasons Germany and Poland didn't come to terms. Because both hated Bolshevism and the Soviet Union, but that conflict was in between these two. This was just a thorn in Germany's side and at the same time Poland wanted to annex the city with its 90 percent German population. The main reason for the German-Polish war was that, because otherwise they might have come to terms. Therefore the regions you mentioned, were not the main cause for the conflict.

But just like usual, if a territory being conquered by losses of blood, states and people don't give up on it that easily any more. Same here in Ukraine: The conflict started in a rather limited area of confrontation (Donbas & Crimea) and might have stopped there, if there would have been peace talks just in time. Now it escalated to a new level, and its questionable whether the Russians will peacefully retreat from any territories they conquered in the East and South.

There is always a window of opportunity for peaceful, diplomatic solutions. Once its closed, things usually escalate to the next level. It was like that in World War I, in World War II, let's just hope we're not approaching World War III because of this nonsense again.

Because whatever my sympathies might be for the Russians or the Ukrainians, my main concern is always and has always been to limit this conflict. I completely agree on Macron insofar, as I think that's the No. 1 priority. Any other concerns of the Russians or the Ukrainians and the least the American warmonger and "regime changer" come after:
- peace
- saving lifes and people
- saving our economic well-being and prosperity

One has to understand, however, how this is being done: Not by constantly escalating and pushing Ukraine even deeper into a bloody mess.

The incidences I mentioned just show that this war is already extremely nasty, but the Russians are still fairly disciplined and don't overly brutal. If the Ukrainians want to escalate to the bitter end, this can just get way more horrible for the Ukrainian people and the Russians, probably the world.

Peace talks now!
 
And the other being the "Polish corridor", which was mostly given to Poland so the new state had its own access to the sea, just like Danzig should have remained a "free city", even though the inhabitants had other preferences, like mentioned.

You are delusional, the Polish Corridor was given to Poland first of all on ethnic grounds - it had a clear Polish majority over entire history, politically was equally Anti-German, it voted for the Polish Party (Polnische Fraktion, later Polenpartei) in all elections to Reichstag between 1867 and 1912.

Here is ethnic data from the Polish Corridor from all available censuses taken between 1831 and 1931 (100 years long period):

p3Fw5Bu.png


West Prussia as a whole was also >50% Polish before the deliberate, systematic, planned Germanization of the region started:

iuCwmcl.png


The issue is not complex at all.

In Versailles 1919, borders in the Corridor were drawn based on Jakob Spett's map - which was in turn based on 1910 census.
 

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