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Thread: Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

  1. #1851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Denazification of Ukraine must be De-Europeazation of it".
    6) Deliberate targeting of civilians: "The Bandera-elites must be liquidated, they cannot be re-educated. The social "swamp" who supported them must experience terror of war and learn the lesson, and pay for its guilt".
    I recently read Razib Khan commenting that Ukrainian DNA clusters with Poles rather than with Russians.
    Basically, that is more European.

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    Unlike the unclear case, the Ukrainian side posted once more videos of tortured Russian POW - this time they being shot live on camera (region of Irpen), hands cuffed on the back. If the West doesn't begin to report the atrocities done by the Ukrainians and their mercenary forces, it just proves how skewed and manipulated the Western media is by now and that its a hypocritical scam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Unlike the unclear case, the Ukrainian side posted once more videos of tortured Russian POW - this time they being shot live on camera (region of Irpen), hands cuffed on the back. If the West doesn't begin to report the atrocities done by the Ukrainians and their mercenary forces, it just proves how skewed and manipulated the Western media is by now and that its a hypocritical scam.
    Which unclear case? Buscha is a clear case, there are satellite pictures of a few weeks ago. They confirm what we have seen on a video. The Kremlin spin that it were actors is fully BS.

    This was the reaction of Zelenski of the torture of the Russian POW, The Guardian:

    However, the government in Kyiv said they were taking the allegations of mistreatment “very seriously” and that there would be an immediate investigation.
    Oleksiy Arestovych, an adviser to the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, said: “We are a European army, and we do not mock our prisoners. If this turns out to be real, this is absolutely unacceptable behaviour.”
    That's not condemnation as fake news like the Kremlin does.

    I get the feeling that you are radicalizing Riverman....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    haha so funny. once again showing me that i'm right about the polish mindset.
    What do you *think* is wrong with how Polish people think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    This was the reaction of Zelenski of the torture of the Russian POW, The Guardian:

    That's not condemnation as fake news like the Kremlin does.
    "We don't mock our prisoners." Oh yeah, so serious. That's blatant cynicism, inhuman yak!
    To call that "mocking". Like shooting in the legs, the genitals, breaking all limbs, destroying faces, shooting people dead successively, not in a "one shot kill" is "mocking prisoners". He can afford to go that far, because he has the full support of the Western media anyway. There are even more "allegiations" concerning civilians in Eastern Ukrainian, ethnic Russian territories as well. The main difference might be, that they didn't filmed it proudly, and the Russian eye whitnesses and investigations being ignored. Imagine if the Ukrainians weren't arrogant and stupid enough to first film what they did, then all the reports would have been just called "Russian fake news propaganda". They will just watch that this stuff being no longer filmed and especially not published. That's all.

    I any case, no side has any higher moral ground in this conflict, they are at least on par.

    The only solution is to make peace, come to a diplomatic compromise and I said often enough which side is to blame for that.

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    da, putin Putin

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    Very high IQ posts on display here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Russia justifies genocide: state publication explains why Ukraine and Ukrainians must be destroyed

    Russian state-owned propaganda outlet RIA published the new programmatic article with the title "What Russia must do with Ukraine". The article reveals a detailed plan for a genocide, starting from full elimination of Ukrainian state.
    1) it calls almost every Ukrainian a Nazi who deserves death. "Nazis who took weapons, must be killed in numbers as much as possible... Not just the elites, the most of the people are guilty, they are passive Nazis, Nazi enablers. They supported these elites and must be punished".
    2) It foresees tyrannic approach to culture. "Further denacification of the mass of the population is to be reached through ideological repression (oppression) of Nazi ideas and through harsh censorship: not only in politics, but in culture and education areas".
    3) it foresees economic and political destruction of Ukraine: "Ukraine must pay for its guilt towards Russia. It must be treated as an enemy, and therefore may develop only in dependency to Russia. No "Marshall plan" may happen. No "neutrality" both ideological or practical".
    4) A tyrannical future emerges: "Personnel providing denazification in new denazified republics (plural! - NB) cannot act on another way but only with direct military-police and management support from Russia. Denazification must be a Deukrainisation".
    5) Ukraine is the enemy: "The history has proven: Ukraine may not exist as a national state. Any attempt to create it leads to Nazism. Ukrainism is an artificial anti-Russian construct... De-banderisation is not enough... Denazification of Ukraine must be De-Europeazation of it".
    6) Deliberate targeting of civilians: "The Bandera-elites must be liquidated, they cannot be re-educated. The social "swamp" who supported them must experience terror of war and learn the lesson, and pay for its guilt".
    add:


    https://twitter.com/nikorepi/status/1508922680044666887

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    Quote Originally Posted by bebicu View Post
    Vandalorum, Bai trollll mancator de cacat vandal ! Mai are vreun gunoi ca tine sa imi suga pula /
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Very high IQ posts on display here.
    I think that too, look at bebicu, it got my concept in 0,001 second

    to the others- I wanted to compare Putin's bunker headquarter to Biden's hugs with unvaccinated Ukrainians


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    one Vladimir less
    Vladimir Zhirinovskiy dies ---> https://iz.ru/1289242/vladislav-kryl...r-zhirinovskii

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mmiikkii View Post
    I recently read Razib Khan commenting that Ukrainian DNA clusters with Poles rather than with Russians.
    Basically, that is more European.
    Everybody is different. Some don't view their phenotype/autosomal as their identity; they view their snp as a type of ancient surname. For example a lot of members on Eupedia are R1b-L51+(brother branch to R1b Z2103+ L23+ related) they come from all over Europe but are all descended from 1 paternal male.





    Russians, Poles, Ukrainians = R1a-M458 (Eastern European Slavic)


    formed 4800 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybp
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M458/
    Suum cuique---Rubiconem suum


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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalorum View Post
    I think that too, look at bebicu, it got my concept in 0,001 second

    to the others- I wanted to compare Putin's bunker headquarter to Biden's hugs with unvaccinated Ukrainians

    Do you think the intelligence of Russia and China know the contents of Hunter's laptop? Do you think deleted forensic data from the hard drive might have been retrieved and might be made public in US congress in the future?
    Last edited by Angela; 06-04-22 at 19:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalorum View Post
    one Vladimir less
    Vladimir Zhirinovskiy dies ---> https://iz.ru/1289242/vladislav-kryl...r-zhirinovskii
    You can just cut this nonsense out right now or you're going to find yourself banned, like your friend Bebicu. Or maybe you're socks of each other. A Spaniard you're not.

    Am I clear?

    It's time for the socks and t-rolls to find new homes.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Do you think the intelligence of Russia and China know the contents of Hunter's laptop? Do you think deleted forensic data from the hard drive might have been retrieved and might be made public in US congress in the future?
    You post any more pictures like that on this thread and there will be serious consequences. Am I clear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Everybody is different. Some don't view their phenotype/autosomal as their identity; they view their snp as a type of ancient surname. For example a lot of members on Eupedia are R1b-L51+(brother branch to R1b Z2103+ L23+ related) they come from all over Europe but are all descended from 1 paternal male.





    Russians, Poles, Ukrainians = R1a-M458 (Eastern European Slavic)


    formed 4800 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybp
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M458/
    Sorry, but that seems to me like the completely wrong way to go about determining ethnicity. For one thing, that accounts for at most about 2% of total dna.

    Second, it unites totally distinct groups in an artificial way. My father carried yDna U-152. So do a lot of Southern Germans, Swiss Germans etc. I assure you he would not have been pleased to be classified as a German or as some larger group encompassing Germans, Italians, French etc. His genetics were indisputably Italian, as was his culture, and given where I plot and his family tree his family have been Italians for millennia. They would plot nowhere near Germans, and their culture could not be more different. .

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    Why it was under question? What do you think who they are?
    It's not hard to search information from history, analyze it and understand that there must not be a federation like Russia in the earth anymore.
    In the state, everything must fundamentally changed. It will be so, but it's sad that people of only one country sacrifice this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Indeed and may it's a tip of the iceberg. The Kremlin frames this as fake news (with actors etc). Disgusting. This is genocide.

    https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-w...rimes-12582047
    Oh yeah, where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, Alex Jones of Infowars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Sorry, but that seems to me like the completely wrong way to go about determining ethnicity. For one thing, that accounts for at most about 2% of total dna.

    Second, it unites totally distinct groups in an artificial way. My father carried yDna U-152. So do a lot of Southern Germans, Swiss Germans etc. I assure you he would not have been pleased to be classified as a German or as some larger group encompassing Germans, Italians, French etc. His genetics were indisputably Italian, as was his culture, and given where I plot and his family tree his family have been Italians for millennia. They would plot nowhere near Germans, and their culture could not be more different. .
    @2%DNA--Some of my best friends are Italian(southern), other Italians I know over the internet belong to my R1b Z2110 and can be very outspoken racist, although I think they are coming from a position of low self esteem. The point is that we all come from different backgrounds and life experiences. My paternal and maternal side fought with the Germans. Among the Germans there was a hierarchy between blonde and blue eyed and those with darker features. Some Germans (not all) in Silesia would say very derogatory comments against Poles and Slavs in general, much like what is being done between Russian Slavs and Ukraine Slavs(Azov-like). When I see the banned videos of the young kids that are dying in vain(tortured, burned alive on both sides..), I think that could have been one of my sons. Being fortunate enough to grow up with so many different cultures and backgrounds, I have learned that people judge each other even within their own racial groups. I don't judge(even though I was raised in a religious cult to judge people, and shun them, if they did not follow a group and comply to a group of hypocrite leaders, who turn a blind eye to blatant spousal and child abuse of the worst kind etc...), if someone wants to identify as belonging to this group or that group is fine with me even if they have 2% dna , as long as they are happy, and don't harm anyone .

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    For those interested in EUR/USD, and potential money flows leaving Europe to US for a temporary safe haven? Currently hovering around 1.09 technical are showing sell. The site also has Zloty-Ruble(making a recovery) stats.

    https://www.investing.com/currencies/eur-usd

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    Watching this video, he clearly made some points and it's just clear that Biden and Putin can't smell each other on the personal level and because of the election campaign, with the Bidens owing the Selenski regime a lot, which being now, step by step, published by the laptom scandal.

    This is a huge problem for the peace making process, as is the Big Money involved in Ukraine, which practically bought the whole country, because Ukraine is now, financially, a debt slave of the US dominated sphere. It was dependent before the current war escalation, and will be even more dependent afterwards. That's invested interest of the Western financial elite, institutions and organisations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    @2%DNA--Some of my best friends are Italian(southern), other Italians I know over the internet belong to my R1b Z2110 and can be very outspoken racist, although I think they are coming from a position of low self esteem. The point is that we all come from different backgrounds and life experiences. My paternal and maternal side fought with the Germans. Among the Germans there was a hierarchy between blonde and blue eyed and those with darker features. Some Germans (not all) in Silesia would say very derogatory comments against Poles and Slavs in general, much like what is being done between Russian Slavs and Ukraine Slavs(Azov-like). When I see the banned videos of the young kids that are dying in vain(tortured, burned alive on both sides..), I think that could have been one of my sons. Being fortunate enough to grow up with so many different cultures and backgrounds, I have learned that people judge each other even within their own racial groups. I don't judge(even though I was raised in a religious cult to judge people, and shun them, if they did not follow a group and comply to a group of hypocrite leaders, who turn a blind eye to blatant spousal and child abuse of the worst kind etc...), if someone wants to identify as belonging to this group or that group is fine with me even if they have 2% dna , as long as they are happy, and don't harm anyone .
    The issue of identification is an interesting one. Here in the U.S. it has become all the rage for men, for example, to claim that they identify as women. That's fine in so far as it goes. You can think you're a cartoon character or a cat or whatever.

    It doesn't change the reality, however, as far as I'm concerned. If you're XY and have a penis, you're a man, not a woman. You don't get to redefine scientific terms.

    The same goes for genetics. An ethnic Italian will plot in Italy. Period. He won't plot in Germany even if he carries R1b U-152.

    As for these racist northern Italians you've encountered on the internet, I assure you they're not representative of Northern Italians. Actual Italians from Italy are normally singularly uninterested in genetics for ancestry purposes unless they belong to some extreme right wing Neo-Nazi group. I've tried for years to get my relatives to test and their response is to the effect of "I know who I am, I know where I come from, what can they tell me I don't know? Plus, I have too many cousins already." My sainted 94 year old great-aunt, when I asked her if she'd take the test if I paid for it, declined. She said to me, "We've always been here", pointing around at the surrounding mountains. Given some of her ancestors are documented to have been there since the 1200s, and were probably there at least 2000 years before that, she's right in a way.

    So, I don't care if some young guy from Lombardia thinks he's a German because he carries R1b U-106 or whatever. Let him, if it makes him happy. Doesn't bother me. The fact remains, however, that I know, and anyone who knows anything about genetics knows, that he plots in Italy and he's Italian, whether he likes it or not, and no matter what fairy stories he tells himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The issue of identification is an interesting one. Here in the U.S. it has become all the rage for men, for example, to claim that they identify as women. That's fine in so far as it goes. You can think you're a cartoon character or a cat or whatever.

    It doesn't change the reality, however, as far as I'm concerned. If you're XY and have a penis, you're a man, not a woman. You don't get to redefine scientific terms.

    The same goes for genetics. An ethnic Italian will plot in Italy. Period. He won't plot in Germany even if he carries R1b U-152.

    As for these racist northern Italians you've encountered on the internet, I assure you they're not representative of Northern Italians. Actual Italians from Italy are normally singularly uninterested in genetics for ancestry purposes unless they belong to some extreme right wing Neo-Nazi group. I've tried for years to get my relatives to test and their response is to the effect of "I know who I am, I know where I come from, what can they tell me I don't know? Plus, I have too many cousins already." My sainted 94 year old great-aunt, when I asked her if she'd take the test if I paid for it, declined. She said to me, "We've always been here", pointing around at the surrounding mountains. Given some of her ancestors are documented to have been there since the 1200s, and were probably there at least 2000 years before that, she's right in a way.

    So, I don't care if some young guy from Lombardia thinks he's a German because he carries R1b U-106 or whatever. Let him, if it makes him happy. Doesn't bother me. The fact remains, however, that I know, and anyone who knows anything about genetics knows, that he plots in Italy and he's Italian, whether he likes it or not, and no matter what fairy stories he tells himself.
    Putting aside XX/XY; and Azovians/Italians who identify with eugenics of the Nazi's(forced innoculations, untermesch subhuman classes etc...)

    Just focusing on ancient Italian(Paternal R1b-L51+ R1b-Z2103 is found in ancient Latins.) ancestral identity, including, language, culture , legends like the founding of Rome .

    Founding of Rome is connected to Aeneas a Trojan.
    Aeneas had an extensive family tree. His wet-nurse was Caieta,[21] and he is the father of Ascanius with Creusa, and of Silvius with Lavinia. Ascanius, also known as Iulus (or Julius),[22] founded Alba Longa and was the first in a long series of kings. According to the mythology used by Virgil in the Aeneid, Romulus and Remus were both descendants of Aeneas through their mother Rhea Silvia, making Aeneas the progenitor of the Roman people.[23] Some early sources call him their father or grandfather,[24] but once the dates of the fall of Troy (1184 BCE) and the founding of Rome (753 BCE) became accepted, authors added generations between them. The Julian family of Rome, most notably Julius Cæsar and Augustus, traced their lineage to Ascanius and Aeneas,[25] thus to the goddess Venus. Through the Julians, the Palemonids make this claim. The legendary kings of Britain – including King Arthur – trace their family through a grandson of
    Aeneas, Brutus.[26]
    If I were to go back in time, do I tell one of my distant relatives R1016 from Castel di Decima (Rome) R1b_Z2103+ who might not plot with modern Italians with Yamnaya component and that he is related by language to ancient Italians or Russians or Ukrainians with Yamnaya component? The same argument can be made for R1a-M458 and Yamnaya component in Russians and Ukrainians.

    Sample Location Date Haplogroup
    R1016 Castel di Decima (Rome) 900-700 BCE R1b-Z2103
    R435 Palestrina Colombella (Praeneste) 600-200 BCE R1b-CTS6389 (Z145)
    R1021 Boville Ernica (Bovillae - Frosinone) 700-600 BCE R1b-Z2118 (L51)
    R437 Palestrina Selicata (Praeneste) 400-200 BCE R1b-PR3565 (L2>ZZ56)
    R850 Ardea 800-500 BCE T1a-L208
    R851 Ardea 800-500 BCE R1b-FGC29470 (L2>DF90)



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I finally found some time to make the map of Yamna admixture using the data from Eurogenes Steppe K10. There was no data for some countries, so I had to guess based on neighbouring countries or isolated samples reported on forums. That is the case for Portugal, Ireland, Wales, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Slovenia, Slovakia and Azerbaijan.

    I would especially need regional samples from all over Iberia. There are huge variations from nearly 0% of Yamna among some Basques to 16% in some Spaniards (but their region of origin is unknown). The Eurogenes data just shows a lower percentage in northern Spain, but that is not very helpful as Galicia, Cantabria and Catalonia probably have very different levels.

    Regional data from Britain, France and Germany are also welcome.





    Even though Yamna chieftains from kurgan belonged almost exclusively to R1b, among modern Europeans it is the Uralic, Baltic, Slavic, Germanic and North Caucasian people who inherited the highest share of Yamna ancestry, not Western Europeans, who now have the highest percentage of haplogroup R1b. One of the reasons for this is that R1b arrived in Western Europe after over a thousand years of genetic dilution through intermarriages with Balkanic and Central European people. In contrast, in the eastern half of Europe, R1b lost its position of dominance and was replaced by R1a and N1c lineages, starting from the Catacomb culture in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, and continuing until the Middle Ages. Nevertheless Yamna ancestry was passed maternally in the Steppe and in neighbouring populations, which explains the high Yamna admixture from the Baltic to the North Caucasus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Putting aside XX/XY; and Azovians/Italians who identify with eugenics of the Nazi's(forced innoculations, untermesch subhuman classes etc...)

    Just focusing on ancient Italian(Paternal R1b-L51+ R1b-Z2103 is found in ancient Latins.) ancestral identity, including, language, culture , legends like the founding of Rome .

    Founding of Rome is connected to Aeneas a Trojan.


    If I were to go back in time, do I tell one of my distant relatives R1016 from Castel di Decima (Rome) R1b_Z2103+ who might not plot with modern Italians with Yamnaya component and that he is related by language to ancient Italians or Russians or Ukrainians with Yamnaya component? The same argument can be made for R1a-M458 and Yamnaya component in Russians and Ukrainians.

    Sample Location Date Haplogroup
    R1016 Castel di Decima (Rome) 900-700 BCE R1b-Z2103
    R435 Palestrina Colombella (Praeneste) 600-200 BCE R1b-CTS6389 (Z145)
    R1021 Boville Ernica (Bovillae - Frosinone) 700-600 BCE R1b-Z2118 (L51)
    R437 Palestrina Selicata (Praeneste) 400-200 BCE R1b-PR3565 (L2>ZZ56)
    R850 Ardea 800-500 BCE T1a-L208
    R851 Ardea 800-500 BCE R1b-FGC29470 (L2>DF90)







    Look, I loved Hector and heartily disliked most of the Greeks in "The Trojan War", so I am team "Trojan", but let's forget the ancient legends, or even ancient "historians", ok? Herodotus said the Etruscans came from Lydia in Anatolia in the first millennium BC, which meant they would have been Anatolian Iron Age, which they most emphatically were not.

    As for the rest, sorry, I'm not sure I'm following you. What are you going to go back and tell R1016 from Castel de Decima?

    Among the things you "could" tell him is that you know of a woman from the present who is pretty close to him genetically, even though her father carries U-152. (That particular sample is my closest Latin sample, and on some calculators I come out 60-70% Latin of the Republican Era with the rest Minoan.)

    You could also tell him that he probably has descendants living in Italy who are not only close to him autosomally but carry his Ydna as well.

    Are you also asking what you could tell him about men in other countries who share his yDna? Well, I suppose you could tell him that perhaps some of them are descended from some Roman/Italian descendant of his who went to that country as a soldier or settler, but, of course, through centuries of intermarriage with the natives of that place they're nothing like him.

    You should also add that there are people in other countries who are NOT descended from him in any way, but carry the same yDna. They are descendants of men who broke off from the group who went to Italy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Founding of Rome is connected to Aeneas a Trojan.

    It is not considered to be a historical fact, it is just a legend, moreover born many centuries after the foundation of Rome. If Aeneas really lived, he lived many centuries before the supposed foundation of Rome.

  25. #1875
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    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,595

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    It is not considered to be a historical fact, it is just a legend, moreover born many centuries after the foundation of Rome. If Aeneas really lived, he lived many centuries before the supposed foundation of Rome.
    Yeah, I don't understand why people cannot separate legend and myth from history. Even Herodotus who some consider the father of history as a discipline should be taken with a large grain of salt. After all he wrote that 1000 Greeks faced 1 million Persians. No way no how could an army of one million strong be sustained in that campaign. The logistics of it are mind boggling. I mean look at all the troubles the Russian forces have sustaining an army of 80,000 strong. That's with a country of ~150M behind them.

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