Politics Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

You mean it will be different from genocidal wars in Phillipines 1899 and the weapons of mass destruction war, so many innocent people died in those wars.

First of all I never supported the Vietnam war the Iraq War or even the Afghanistan War. Did you support Saddam's ethnic cleansing of the Kurds and Basra Shiites?
 
I honestly do not see how Russia cannot go down for good after this atrocity.
 
Anyway, we are getting way off into the weeds. This is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I suspect we will have a massive influx of Ukrainian refugees into Europe. Is Europe ready for them?
 
You're speaking from our Western perspective and standpoint. But you have to put yourself in the shoes of the Russians and look at their narrative and "justification". From the Russian perspective, Ukraine is a puppet state that is being used by the West to seek confrontation and destabilize Russia as they did with Syria, Iraq, Libya. According to Putin NATO poses a threat to Russia and its security. Therefore the Kremlin insists that the NATO expansion towards its borders poses an unacceptable challenge to its policy of so-called "indivisible security." Plus they say that Russia is taking back what's rightfully Russia's.

Speaking about perspective and standpoint, do you think Putin believes his own words when he says he's liberating Ukraine from a Nazi regime?
I think he's smarter than that and I don't think we should consider or take serious any such perspective and standpoint.
 
Anyway, we are getting way off into the weeds. This is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I suspect we will have a massive influx of Ukrainian refugees into Europe. Is Europe ready for them?
Why wouldn't Europe be ready for them?
 
Speaking about perspective and standpoint, do you think Putin believes his own words when he says he's liberating Ukraine from a Nazi regime?
I think he's smarter than that and I don't think we should consider or take serious any such perspective and standpoint.

Pretext. The words that he uttered couple of days ago as to Russia's historical right to Ukraine are what he believes. The rest are excuses that nobody buys.
 
You're speaking from our Western perspective and standpoint. But you have to put yourself in the shoes of the Russians and look at their narrative and "justification". From the Russian perspective, Ukraine is a puppet state that is being used by the West to seek confrontation and destabilize Russia as they did with Syria, Iraq, Libya. According to Putin NATO poses a threat to Russia and its security. Therefore the Kremlin insists that the NATO expansion towards its borders poses an unacceptable challenge to its policy of so-called "indivisible security." Plus they say that Russia is taking back what's rightfully Russia's.

First of all it was the choice of Ukrainians themselves to 'overthrow' a pro Russian government and a change to a pro-European government in 2014. That was not what the EU or NATO forced up on.

Secondly we have seen the real face of Putin, with a revanchist, pure nationalistic (the unification of 'Rus' in de cradle Kiev, some claim from 1000 years ago) agenda. That was probably on his mind since 1991 (fall of the SU). This form of authoritarian populism is anti open, liberal democracy, and is trying to destabilize it.

So the "Putin-versteher" as it was popular especially in Germany has imo only lead to legitimizing thought and an understatement of the aggression from the side of Putin c.s. We have faced the real danger now real expert.
 
First of all I never supported the Vietnam war the Iraq War or even the Afghanistan War. Did you support Saddam's ethnic cleansing of the Kurds and Basra Shiites?
Both me and my wife of 37 years were raised in a cult. Voting, military service, University, strictly forbidden unless we wanted to be shunned by are friends and family. We left, but I still try and be neutral. Encouraged my boys to choose for themselves (University)and varsity sports (also forbidden)
 
First of all it was the choice of Ukrainians themselves to 'overthrow' a pro Russian government and a change to a pro-European government in 2014. That was not what the EU or NATO forced up on.

Secondly we have seen the real face of Putin, with a revanchist, pure nationalistic (the unification of 'Rus' in de cradle Kiev, some claim from 1000 years ago) agenda. That was probably on his mind since 1991 (fall of the SU). This form of authoritarian populism is anti open, liberal democracy, and is trying to destabilize it.

So the "Putin-versteher" as it was popular especially in Germany has imo only lead to legitimizing thought and an understatement of the aggression from the side of Putin c.s. We have faced the real danger now real expert.

I am honestly so disgusted with what I see happening, I try to focus on that. So as for Germany... I wished I could express surprise, but I am desensitized.
Ukraine should become an official EU candidate and receive proper protection.
NATO needs to justify it's "membership fees" by solving this.
What did the people of the Ukraine do to deserve this?
 
Both me and my wife of 37 years were raised in a cult. Voting, military service, University, strictly forbidden unless we wanted to be shunned by are friends and family. We left, but I still try and be neutral. Encouraged my boys to choose for themselves (University)and varsity sports (also forbidden)
A good father doesn't pass on his own confusion
 
If the Ukrainian folks want to be an independent country, it seems like they’re going to have to fight for their independence on the battlefield. I could be wrong, but I assume that overall the Russian people are not keen on the war in Ukraine. However, this can change when the Russian public gets the impression that the "whole" world and especially the West is against them. The bottom line is that these geopolitical games will only benefit certain groups while the people in the middle of this will have to pay.

















What do you think about the claim that "Every population has the government it deserves"?
 
Speaking about perspective and standpoint, do you think Putin believes his own words when he says he's liberating Ukraine from a Nazi regime?
I think he's smarter than that and I don't think we should consider or take serious any such perspective and standpoint.

That is a frame that is not fallen from the sky. Around ww2 there was really an active fascist movement in the Ukraine. So Putin is using an old familiar label that causes a connotation in Russia....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banderites

PS and there is a fraction within the Ukrainian nationalist that still uses that label:
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-30655046
 
I am honestly so disgusted with what I see happening, I try to focus on that. So as for Germany... I wished I could express surprise, but I am desensitized.
Ukraine should become an official EU candidate and receive proper protection.
NATO needs to justify it's "membership fees" by solving this.
What did the people of the Ukraine do to deserve this?

Not with Crimaia. Russiawould not leave Crimaia and Sevastoupolis.
If Ukraine agreed to leave Crimaia and Azof sea. them today could be EC member.
 
To make one thing clear I‘m against the war in Ukraine and against the senseless shed of blood. But that doesn't mean we should ignore the Russian perspective whether we like it or not. Russia isn't a nobody that can be pushed around, it's a nuclear power.
 
First of all it was the choice of Ukrainians themselves to 'overthrow' a pro Russian government and a change to a pro-European government in 2014. That was not what the EU or NATO forced up on.

Secondly we have seen the real face of Putin, with a revanchist, pure nationalistic (the unification of 'Rus' in de cradle Kiev, some claim from 1000 years ago) agenda. That was probably on his mind since 1991 (fall of the SU). This form of authoritarian populism is anti open, liberal democracy, and is trying to destabilize it.

So the "Putin-versteher" as it was popular especially in Germany has imo only lead to legitimizing thought and an understatement of the aggression from the side of Putin c.s. We have faced the real danger now real expert.

I talk with Russians and not only about them. According to these Russians, I spoke with, Western people are being fed with anti-Russian propaganda. Hence many Westerners are anti-Russian, Russiaphobes who think that Russians are the eternal bad guys, the villains. In the real world, things are more complicated and we should refrain from quickly putting people in boxes such as Putin-versteher or anti-Russian haters. I'm against the war in Ukraine anyway.
 
What do you think about the claim that "Every population has the government it deserves"?


There is anelement of truth in that statement but talking in absolutes, is usually wrong. Some people don't deserve the government they have because they never voted for it.











 
BERLIN (Reuters) - The chief of the German army vented his frustration over what he sees as the long-running neglect of military readiness in his country in an unusual public rant a few hours after Russia invaded Ukraine, adding that the army was in bad shape.
Russian forces invaded Ukraine by land, air and sea on Thursday, confirming the worst fears of the West with the biggest attack by one state against another in Europe since World War Two.
"In my 41th year of peace-time service, I would not have thought that I would have to experience a war," Lieutenant General Alfons Mais said on LinkedIn on Thursday.
"And the Bundeswehr, the army which I have the honour to command, is standing there more or less empty-handed. The options we can offer the government in support of the alliance are extremely limited."

Commentators on LinkedIn praised Mais for his "brutally honest" words, many of them backing his veiled criticism of consecutive German governments that have been blamed for not fulfilling NATO's targets for military spending.
Germany in January offered to supply 5,000 military helmets to Ukraine to help defend against possible invasion - an offer Kyiv mayor and former world champion boxer Vitali Klitschko dismissed as "a joke".


So generous of the Germans to send 5,000 helmets.
 
I talk with Russians and not only about them. According to these Russians, I spoke with, Western people are being fed with anti-Russian propaganda. Hence many Westerners are anti-Russian, Russiaphobes who think that Russians are the eternal bad guys, the villains. In the real world, things are more complicated and we should refrain from quickly putting people in boxes such as Putin-versteher or anti-Russian haters. I'm against the war in Ukraine anyway.

...and the Russians are fed anti-West Propaganda plus there is a tendency to defend one's own country, right or wrong.
 
...and the Russians are fed anti-West Propaganda plus there is a tendency to defend one's own country, right or wrong.

That's the point. People are being pitted against each other.
 

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