Politics Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

Jovialis said:
I think aggressive behavior has more to do with psychopathy. They have aggressive behavior with low empathy. Of course everyone has shade of mental conditions. But there are other factors that control and balance people. Intelligence is one of them. People with high intelligence with higher than average proclivity to psychopathic behavior are probably great generals, but at its worst you get people like Josef Mengele, Putin, etc. People with low intelligence and higher than average psychopathic behavior are your comman criminals that fill the prisons, henchmen, etc. Of course not everyone In a population falls into these categories
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May be there different factors at stake. Psychopathy is one thing. I guess totalitarianism is very fund of dehumanizing and dehumanizing is the step to crush others, the sense for human dignity is then passe of course.

And may be Hannah Arendt has also a point with her banality of evil:
https://www.britannica.com/story/what-did-hannah-arendt-really-mean-by-the-banality-of-evil

And IQ is the least factor I guess, I know intelligent people who are beasts in human sense....and the reverse.
The NAZI top for example had not low IQ (still the other factors, like you mentioned, were at stake I guess).

They were:
Dr. Kelly: “Strong, dominant, aggressive, egocentric personalities. Their lack of conscience is not rare. They can be found anywhere in the country, behind big desks deciding the fate of their nations.”
Dr. Gilbert: “Ruthlessly aggressive, emotional insensitivity, presented with a front of utter amiability (likeability). Narcissistic sociopaths.”¹
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https://historyofyesterday.com/the-results-of-the-nazi-iq-tests-c3a5e442f37c
 
Northener said:
May be there different factors at stake. Psychopathy is one thing. I guess totalitarianism is very fund of dehumanizing and dehumanizing is the step to crush others, the sense for human dignity is then passe of course.

And may be Hannah Arendt has also a point with her banality of evil:
https://www.britannica.com/story/what-did-hannah-arendt-really-mean-by-the-banality-of-evil

And IQ is the least factor I guess, I know intelligent people who are beasts in human sense....and the reverse.
The NAZI top for example had not low IQ (still the other factors, like you mentioned, were at stake I guess).

They were:


https://historyofyesterday.com/the-results-of-the-nazi-iq-tests-c3a5e442f37c
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The Nazi leadership were high IQ and high in psychopathy for sure. The people of the Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS were probably low IQ and psychotic.
 
Jovialis said:
The Nazi leadership were high IQ and high in psychopathy for sure. The people of the Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS were probably low IQ and psychotic.
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We don’t have iq rates of SS members. What I meant to say is that Iq as such is not ‘a safeguard’ for dehumanizing others…..


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Northener said:
We don’t have iq rates of SS members. What I meant to say is that Iq as such is not ‘a safeguard’ for dehumanizing others…..


Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum
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I agree, there are other factors.
 
Jovialis said:
The Nazi leadership were high IQ and high in psychopathy for sure. The people of the Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS were probably low IQ and psychotic.
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Jovialis said:
That particular division of SS was composed of criminals (murderers and rapists) that weren't expected to survive.
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What are you talking about? The Waffen-SS was a military unit. The main thing about it was that it not under the direct command of the Wehrmacht and that many volunteers from all over Europe were allowed to join. The Wehrmacht regular divisions were usually made up almost exclusively of German citizens.

There were, practically in all major armies, units of criminals or deviants, but this for sure doesn't apply to the Waffen-SS as a whole. For the regular units, the military training and discipline was harder, and they were better equipped. In the war they were used as "fire brigade", because of their mobility and efficiency. But this brought the units in the most dangerous of all spots with the highest losses. Some of the commanders were no professional military officers, or more fanatic and rather careless about their troopers. But that was also not a regular feature, just something more common than in the Wehrmacht.
There was of course a higher percentage of "political" people in these units, that's also sure, but more so at the beginning of the war, than in the later period, when the recruitment was expanded, the standards lowered. They were still higher than in the regular units usually (like for height, fitness etc.), but definitely no longer as high as they were before.

And all those "ethnic units" of volunteers, from all around the continent and beyond, being usually brought under the Waffen-SS, not the Wehrmacht command. So in the very end it was primarily an issue of command structure and where the recruits came from.

One of the more notorious units being this one:
From the beginning, the formation attracted criticism from both the Nazi Party and the SS for the idea that convicted criminals who were forbidden to carry arms, therefore then exempt from conscription in the Wehrmacht, could be a part of the elite SS. A solution was found where it was proclaimed that the formation was not part of the SS, but under control of the SS.[9] Within a couple of years, the unit had grown into a band of common criminals. Accordingly, the unit name was changed to Sonderkommando Dirlewanger ("Special Unit Dirlewanger"). As the unit strength grew, it was placed under the command of the SS-Totenkopfverb?nde (the formation responsible for the administration of the concentration camps) and redesignated as the SS-Sonderbataillon Dirlewanger.[1] In January 1942, to rebuild its strength, the unit was authorised to recruit Russian and Ukrainian volunteers. By February 1943 the number of men in the battalion doubled to 700 (half of them Volksdeutsche).[6] It became a Waffen-SS unit again in late 1944. In May 1944, the 550 men (Turkestanis, Volga Tartars, Azerbaijanis, Kirghiz, Uzbek, and Tadjiks) from the Ostmuslemanische SS-Regiment were attached to the SS Dirlewanger brigade.[10]
Although other Strafbataillons were raised as the war proceeded and the need for further manpower grew, these penal military units were for those convicted of military offences, whereas the recruits sent to Dirlewanger Brigade were convicted of major crimes such as premeditated murder, rape, arson and burglary. Dirlewanger provided them with an opportunity to commit atrocities on such a scale that it even raised complaints within the brutal SS.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirlewanger_Brigade

In the German armies (Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS alike), this was a true exception. "Funnily" Stalin like with the purge after the "Roehm-Putsch" in Germany took things literally and made it much bigger and worse than the Germans ever did in this respect:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20750232

But penal brigades and stuff like that being known from many sides, in many wars. And they usually caused troubles one way or another, every time.

The Ukrainians now use mercenary units and volunteer units of similar character, I wouldn't wonder if some of the reported atrocities being more often committed by those too.
 
Riverman said:
What are you talking about? The Waffen-SS was a military unit. The main thing about it was that it not under the direct command of the Wehrmacht and that many volunteers from all over Europe were allowed to join. The Wehrmacht regular divisions were usually made up almost exclusively of German citizens.

There were, practically in all major armies, units of criminals or deviants, but this for sure doesn't apply to the Waffen-SS as a whole. For the regular units, the military training and discipline was harder, and they were better equipped. In the war they were used as "fire brigade", because of their mobility and efficiency. But this brought the units in the most dangerous of all spots with the highest losses. Some of the commanders were no professional military officers, or more fanatic and rather careless about their troopers. But that was also not a regular feature, just something more common than in the Wehrmacht.
There was of course a higher percentage of "political" people in these units, that's also sure, but more so at the beginning of the war, than in the later period, when the recruitment was expanded, the standards lowered. They were still higher than in the regular units usually (like for height, fitness etc.), but definitely no longer as high as they were before.

And all those "ethnic units" of volunteers, from all around the continent and beyond, being usually brought under the Waffen-SS, not the Wehrmacht command. So in the very end it was primarily an issue of command structure and where the recruits came from.

One of the more notorious units being this one:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirlewanger_Brigade

In the German armies (Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS alike), this was a true exception. "Funnily" Stalin like with the purge after the "Roehm-Putsch" in Germany took things literally and made it much bigger and worse than the Germans ever did in this respect:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20750232

But penal brigades and stuff like that being known from many sides, in many wars. And they usually caused troubles one way or another, every time.

The Ukrainians now use mercenary units and volunteer units of similar character, I wouldn't wonder if some of the reported atrocities being more often committed by those too.
Click to expand...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirlewanger_Brigade

I said a specific division, do you know how to read?
 
Jovialis said:
Looks like I need to eat those words, because I botched the post. I meant to refer to that specific division.
Nevertheless, the point I was making remains.
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An interesting point about it is, that originally, it wasn't even thought to be such a criminal unit, just poachers which might be skilled snipers. But then, once they made the exception once, all kind of legal criminals and foreigners being brought into this unit, preferably used for "dirty and difficult tasks".
Such things often get a dynamic of their own, like war in general. Which is the longer a war lasts, the nastier it gets usually. There are no clearn wars, but the cleanest ones are the short ones. Long wars, especially partisan style wars, get really inhumane on a new level, rather sooner than later. Peace is the only solution, especially in a case like this one, which was so unnecessary from the start.
 
A prophetic Soviet cartoon from 1973 in which kids find a shipwreck ("Moscow"?) with letter Z and the boy says "this must be a fascist ship, I've read that fascists paint letter Z on their equipment" - Russian censorship is now trying to remove this cartoon:

Full movie - https://youtu.be/2pIA5UxGqTM
 
Riverman said:
It may constitute a real warcrime and needs to be investigated, just like what the Ukrainian army did, but its nothing like a genocide.
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The Russian investigation has finished: 'the heros got rewarded'.....:vomitting::vomitting::vomitting:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-war-putin-medals-bucha-b2060568.html

What they did is legitimized by the autocrat himself this is genocide mr Riverman.

The International Criminal Court (ICC). Article II of the Convention defines genocide as:


... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
 
Northener said:
The Russian investigation has finished: 'the heros got rewarded'.....:vomitting::vomitting::vomitting:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-war-putin-medals-bucha-b2060568.htmlWhat they did is legitimized by the autocrat himself this is genocide mr Riverman.The International Criminal Court (ICC). Article II of the Convention defines genocide as:... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:(a) Killing members of the group;(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
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What else do you expect from a cold tyrant like Putin?
 
Northener said:
The Russian investigation has finished: 'the heros got rewarded'.....:vomitting::vomitting::vomitting:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-war-putin-medals-bucha-b2060568.html

What they did is legitimized by the autocrat himself this is genocide mr Riverman.

The International Criminal Court (ICC). Article II of the Convention defines genocide as:


... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Click to expand...

according to the Kremlin elite Ukraine has not the right to exist
the Ukrainians are an unworthy people, they are criminals and nazis
therefore the original object of Putin was to take the whole of Ukraine
then to execute the Ukrainien elite, because they cannot be converted
and to re-educate the common people, in camps, like the Chinese are doing with the Uyghurs

this objective failed
they will now take whatever they can in eastern Ukraine and claim victory
and whenever they feel strong enough or feel there is a new opportunity invade Ukraine again or another country with a population they consider 'criminals and nazis'

as long as you leave this Kremlin elite intact, this story will repeat itself
and if their tactics would prove succesfull, China would follow their example
 
bicicleur 2 said:
according to the Kremlin elite Ukraine has not the right to existthe Ukrainians are an unworthy people, they are criminals and nazistherefore the original object of Putin was to take the whole of Ukrainethen to execute the Ukrainien elite, because they cannot be convertedand to re-educate the common people, in camps, like the Chinese are doing with the Uyghursthis objective failedthey will now take whatever they can in eastern Ukraine and claim victoryand whenever they feel strong enough or feel there is a new opportunity invade Ukraine again or another country with a population they consider 'criminals and nazis'as long as you leave this Kremlin elite intact, this story will repeat itselfand if their tactics would prove succesfull, China would follow their example
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Putin and the Russian elite are pretty unworthy themselves and the world would be very much safer and better without them.
 
According to investigative media Bellingcat, the Wagner Group has had around 8,000 combatants in the Ukraine of which around 3,000 are estimated to have been killed. Well, at least now Russia can say that their "special operation" DID lead to some measure of denazification.
 
https://www-forum--ekonomiczne-pl.t...tycznych/?_x_tr_sl=pl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=pl

^^^
Polish politicians stand for a Polish-Ukrainian federation:

"(...) a declaration was made repeated by all participants - This is the moment to create the Polish-Ukrainian Union"

=====

"During the 7th European Congress of Local Governments, during one of the discussion panels " Europe in search of leadership", a declaration was made repeated by all participants - This is the moment to create the Polish-Ukrainian Union.

In line with the declaration made by the President of PSL, Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz, other participants emphasized the importance of creating a possible union. Marshal of the Lower Silesia Voivodship Cezary Przybylski, MP Maciej Gdula from Nowa Lewica, President of the Agreement Jarosław Gowin and Czesław Bielecki spoke approvingly about such an idea.


The politicians unanimously emphasized the possibilities and importance of establishing the Polish-Ukrainian Union. During the debate, it was pointed out that it is real and informal taking place through the open houses of Poles to all refugees from Ukraine. The difficult history of both nations lost its meaning in the face of the necessity of unification.


The words of Volodymyr Zelenskiy about the need to create a Polish-Ukrainian union were also quoted, about the fact that there are as many as 80 million Poles and Ukrainians in total, as many as Germans, which was integrated into the context of the possibilities of e.g. economic issues that the union of the two countries could bring."
 
^^^ NO Wloszczowa, capital only in Lwow (tylko we Lwowie)!:

https://www.reddit.com/r/poland/comments/u5l4uc/this_is_the_moment_to_create_a_polishukrainian/

mtnrxatxq2u81.png


 
World War Z 1 (1920):

89pH5RW.jpg


World War Z 2 (2013):


World War Z 3 (2022):

ErosEBF.jpg
 
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