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Thread: Greek from Elis (Western Peloponnese) Gedmatch results

  1. #26
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Try using all west Eurasians.
    Also if it is the "updated' list, I see some were user submitted from the Apricity, from single individuals...
    Also, my heritage is confounded because it is looking at heritage with modern mixed populations. Ashkenazi for example are a good chunk Greek.

  2. #27
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Here were my, My Heritage results:


  3. #28
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: USA - New York



    Mine:
    Distance to:Angela12.26213277Chris_paternal_grandmother_(El is_Greece)

    Emilia is at a distance of 11 and Liguria 12, so that seems right.

    Personally, I wouldn't take My Heritage very seriously, especially for the two-way mix, which I never look at, period, in any calculator. It's as bad as Eurogenes' "Jewish" calculator; everybody in Southern Europe and beyond comes out as part Jewish. Part of the reason is that you can't use Ashkenazim as reference samples, when they're approximately half-European or more.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Myheritage kit.
    What do you think about her results? Supposedly her village (right on the borders with Arcadia) is an old mix of Arcadian migrants from the vicinity of modern day municipality of Gortynia and local people from Elis.


    Eurogenes K13
    Code:
    Chris_paternal_grandmother_(Elis_Greece),22.69,9.72,22.79,9.8,27.71,5.11,0,0.44,0,0,0.43,0,1.3

    Updated (from a so-called "bigger" regions list)
    Code:
    Distance to:    Target
    5.18147662    Italian_Center
    5.37254130    Greek_Lefkada
    6.67935626    Greek_Euboea_South
    7.00201400    Italian_South
    7.46105891    Greek_Athens
    7.56601612    Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
    7.71033722    Greek_Kefalonia
    7.73669180    Greek_Laconia
    7.78909494    Greek_Cyclades
    8.05455772    Greek_Messenia
    8.15559317    Greek_Peloponnese
    8.20067070    Greek_Arcadia
    8.31792041    Greek_Tsakonia
    8.38233261    Greek_Central
    8.45858144    Greek_Southeast_Laconia
    8.71135466    French_Corsica
    8.92127794    Greek_Thessaly
    9.23055795    Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
    9.37981343    Albanian
    9.43618567    Greek_Andros
    9.47082362    Maltese
    9.59629095    Torbesh
    9.77308549    Greek_Samos
    10.17901763    Italian_North
    10.28330200    Greek_Epirus
    10.62208078    Greek_Deep_Mani
    10.67664741    Greek_Achaea
    10.89881645    Greek_CentralMacedonia
    11.31129966    Greek_Thrace
    11.45946334    Greek_Kythera
    11.55190460    Greek_West
    11.75605376    Turkish_Crete
    11.78731946    Jew_Ashkenazi
    11.94018425    Aromanian
    12.40789265    Jew_Moldova
    12.92159433    Greek_Florina
    13.03174202    Turkish_Macedonia
    13.25502546    Greek_Lesbos
    13.63235856    North_Macedonian
    13.79708665    Greek_Ikaria
    13.82544394    Jew_Morroco
    13.88966522    Greek_Crete
    14.60742962    Greek_Nisyros
    15.06501577    Jew_Italy
    15.13013219    Greek_Chios
    15.27566692    Jew_Sephardi
    15.51565661    Jew_Algeria
    16.04220371    Greek_Kalymnos
    16.26384948    Bulgarian_Eastern
    16.47618585    Italian_North_Alpine



    Code:
    Distance to:    Target
    1.84783185    76.40% Italian_North + 23.60% Samaritan
    1.92863689    77.20% Italian_North + 22.80% Lebanese_Christian
    1.97476812    69.80% Greek_Deep_Mani + 30.20% Spanish_Valencia
    2.02588610    48.20% Italian_North + 51.80% Maltese
    2.05070752    71.00% Italian_Center + 29.00% Jew_Ashkenazi
    2.05969957    68.40% Greek_Deep_Mani + 31.60% Portuguese
    2.06528997    72.40% Greek_Andros + 27.60% Spanish_Galicia
    2.10814816    70.60% Greek_Deep_Mani + 29.40% Spanish_Castile-León
    2.11103799    69.20% Greek_Deep_Mani + 30.80% Spanish_Murcia
    2.15124864    52.00% Greek_Andros + 48.00% Italian_North

    Updated (from a so-called "smaller" regions list)
    Code:
    Distance to:    Target
    4.35004598    Italian_Marche
    4.62371063    Italian_Lazio
    5.13150076    Italian_Abruzzo
    5.30293315    Italian_Umbria
    5.37254130    Greek_Lefkada
    5.53175379    Italian_Romagna
    5.74773869    Italian_Molise
    6.09523584    Italian_Basilicata
    6.67935626    Greek_Euboea_South
    6.72037945    Italian_Apulia
    6.81139486    Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite
    6.94587647    Italian_Sicily
    6.97529928    Albanian_South_Albania
    7.27714917    Italian_Tuscany
    7.46105891    Greek_Athens
    7.56601612    Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
    7.71033722    Greek_Kefalonia
    7.73669180    Greek_Laconia
    7.78909494    Greek_Cyclades
    8.05455772    Greek_Messenia
    8.15559317    Greek_Peloponnese
    8.20067070    Greek_Arcadia
    8.31792041    Greek_Tsakonia
    8.38233261    Greek_Central
    8.39858917    Italian_Campania
    8.71135466    French_Corsica
    8.71950113    Albanian_Central_Albania
    8.92127794    Greek_Thessaly
    9.23055795    Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
    9.43618567    Greek_Andros
    9.47082362    Maltese
    9.59629095    Torbesh
    9.77308549    Greek_Samos
    9.89261341    Albanian_Macedonia
    10.23190598    Albanian_North_Albania
    10.28330200    Greek_Epirus
    10.29805321    Italian_Emilia
    10.62208078    Greek_Deep_Mani
    10.62833007    Albanian_Kosovo
    10.67664741    Greek_Achaea
    10.89881645    Greek_CentralMacedonia
    11.29599487    Italian_Calabria
    11.30096014    Italian_Liguria
    11.45946334    Greek_Kythera
    11.55190460    Greek_West
    11.75605376    Turkish_Crete
    11.78731946    Jew_Ashkenazi
    11.89131616    Greek_Istanbul
    12.07177700    Macedonian_South
    12.85616973    Aromanian

    Code:
    Distance to:    Target
    1.76500765    40.00% Italian_Lombardy + 60.00% Maltese
    1.88101156    62.40% Italian_Tuscany + 37.60% Jew_Ashkenazi
    1.90182931    42.60% Cypriot_Greek + 57.40% Swiss_Italian
    1.96103953    67.00% Maltese + 33.00% Swiss_Italian
    1.97210323    74.20% Italian_Romagna + 25.80% Jew_Italy
    1.97476812    69.80% Greek_Deep_Mani + 30.20% Spanish_Valencia
    1.99467659    62.80% Greek_Andros + 37.20% Italian_Piedmont
    2.00009586    62.80% Italian_Calabria + 37.20% Swiss_Italian
    2.00501781    57.00% Italian_Tuscany + 43.00% Maltese
    2.02550276    43.20% Greek_Andros + 56.80% Italian_Tuscany

    Dodecad K12b
    Code:
    Chris_paternal_grandmother_(Elis_Greece),4.7,0,4.57,1.22,30.31,18.59,0,0,9.73,0,30.87,0

    Updated
    Code:
    Distance to:    Target
    4.14055552    Italian_Lazio
    4.40580118    Italian_Marche
    4.86326022    Italian_Abruzzo
    5.15618076    Italian_Umbria
    5.97554182    Greek_Athens
    6.02696441    Greek_Central
    6.15208908    Italian_Molise
    6.24834378    Italian_Apulia
    6.71248091    Albanian
    6.96624720    Greek_Peloponnese
    7.00835929    Italian_Romagna
    7.37714715    Italian_Campania
    7.40011486    Italian_Basilicata
    7.48485805    Italian_Sicily
    7.63854044    Greek_Thrace
    7.81478727    Greek_Foca
    7.89128633    Greek_Thessaly
    8.28492607    Greek_Lemnos
    8.29912044    Greek_Thessaloniki
    9.46247853    Ashkenazi_Jew
    9.55691373    Moldovan_Jewish
    9.87490253    Albanian_Kosovo
    10.04188229    Italian_Tuscany
    10.10305894    Bulgarian_Thrace
    10.23052785    Italian_Calabria
    10.97425168    Greek_Izmir
    11.10976147    French_Corsica
    11.27520288    Macedonian_South
    11.30713934    Turk_Makedonya
    11.62974634    Italian_Emilia
    11.64911585    Greek_Fournoi
    12.09886358    Italian_Liguria
    12.11238209    Macedonian_Vardar
    12.52337814    Greek_Macedonia
    13.02841510    Greek_Crete
    13.62007342    Macedonian_East
    13.78686331    Italian_Jew
    13.89506747    Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
    14.17207113    Macedonian_Polog
    14.18472770    Turk_Trakya
    14.36809312    Moldovan_Gagauz
    14.44318524    Bulgarian_East
    14.47163778    Italian_Veneto
    14.67326140    Greek_Icaria
    14.87985215    Italian_Lombardy
    14.89014439    Italian_Piedmont
    15.52592670    Italian_Friuli_VG
    15.62040652    Greek_Kos
    15.79975316    Turk_Deliorman
    16.16860538    Bulgarian_Central

    Code:
    Distance to:    Target
    2.36458164    39.40% Italian_Veneto + 60.60% Moldovan_Jewish
    2.37726601    38.60% Italian_Lombardy + 61.40% Moldovan_Jewish
    2.42206775    41.40% Austrian_Tyrol + 58.60% Sephardic_Jew
    2.47837720    66.00% Moldovan_Jewish + 34.00% Swiss_Italian
    2.52961591    67.20% Italian_Umbria + 32.80% Moldovan_Jewish
    2.54678242    61.00% Ashkenazi_Jew + 39.00% Italian_Veneto
    2.60137933    67.80% Greek_Izmir + 32.20% Portuguese
    2.63363860    43.80% Italian_Liguria + 56.20% Moldovan_Jewish
    2.65050262    58.60% Italian_Romagna + 41.40% Moldovan_Jewish
    2.70987193    44.80% Italian_Emilia + 55.20% Moldovan_Jewish

    I can provide the coordinates for any additional calculator requested
    Are those Deep Maniot samples self-made coordinates created from original partial Maniot coordinates? The results seem fine but also many of those unique outliers are almost always self made (i.e extracted). I would not recommend them, sorry.

  5. #30
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    What is this?

    Distance to: Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite
    3.63917573 Italian_Lazio
    3.74977333 Italian_Marche
    4.10082918 Italian_Umbria
    5.17549998 Italian_Romagna
    6.82568678 Italian_Tuscany
    7.14372452 Italian_Abruzzo
    7.51382725 Italian_Basilicata
    7.59715078 Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
    7.70085710 Italian_Molise
    7.76609941 Greek_Euboea_South
    8.27516767 Italian_Apulia
    8.43353425 Albanian_South_Albania
    8.71658764 Greek_Athens
    8.83832563 Albanian_Central_Albania
    8.91531828 Greek_Cyclades
    8.94280717 Italian_Emilia
    9.08770048 Greek_Samos
    9.15278100 Greek_Kefalonia
    9.25234024 Greek_Central
    9.30903862 Greek_Messenia
    9.33296845 Italian_Sicily
    9.39639292 French_Corsica
    9.47769487 Greek_Thessaly
    9.52760725 Greek_Laconia
    9.62090952 Albanian_Kosovo

  6. #31
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    What is this?

    Distance to: Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite
    3.63917573 Italian_Lazio
    3.74977333 Italian_Marche
    4.10082918 Italian_Umbria
    5.17549998 Italian_Romagna
    6.82568678 Italian_Tuscany
    7.14372452 Italian_Abruzzo
    7.51382725 Italian_Basilicata
    7.59715078 Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
    7.70085710 Italian_Molise
    7.76609941 Greek_Euboea_South
    8.27516767 Italian_Apulia
    8.43353425 Albanian_South_Albania
    8.71658764 Greek_Athens
    8.83832563 Albanian_Central_Albania
    8.91531828 Greek_Cyclades
    8.94280717 Italian_Emilia
    9.08770048 Greek_Samos
    9.15278100 Greek_Kefalonia
    9.25234024 Greek_Central
    9.30903862 Greek_Messenia
    9.33296845 Italian_Sicily
    9.39639292 French_Corsica
    9.47769487 Greek_Thessaly
    9.52760725 Greek_Laconia
    9.62090952 Albanian_Kosovo
    So Albanians are closer to Northen Italians where as Greeks closer to Southern Italians?

  7. #32
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Albanians usually plot quite far east of Tuscans (Slavic, not West European admixture), but parallel, if that makes sense.

    I've never seen an Albanian plot with Northern Italians. The only people from the Balkans whom I've seen plot with Northern Italians are Bulgarians occasionally, or Romanians.

    We've known this for decades, since the days of Cavalli-Sforza.

    As for Southern Italians/Sicilians, they're closest to people from the Peloponnese and some of the islands.

  8. #33
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    So Albanians are closer to Northen Italians where as Greeks closer to Southern Italians?
    Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite looks like an outlier. Possible miscalculation in the average or an outlier not representative of all Albanians. Albanians do not plot with Italians, Albanians are part of the Balkan cluster, as is obvious.




  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    What is this?

    Distance to: Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite
    3.63917573 Italian_Lazio
    3.74977333 Italian_Marche
    4.10082918 Italian_Umbria
    5.17549998 Italian_Romagna
    6.82568678 Italian_Tuscany
    7.14372452 Italian_Abruzzo
    7.51382725 Italian_Basilicata
    7.59715078 Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
    7.70085710 Italian_Molise
    7.76609941 Greek_Euboea_South
    8.27516767 Italian_Apulia
    8.43353425 Albanian_South_Albania
    8.71658764 Greek_Athens
    8.83832563 Albanian_Central_Albania
    8.91531828 Greek_Cyclades
    8.94280717 Italian_Emilia
    9.08770048 Greek_Samos
    9.15278100 Greek_Kefalonia
    9.25234024 Greek_Central
    9.30903862 Greek_Messenia
    9.33296845 Italian_Sicily
    9.39639292 French_Corsica
    9.47769487 Greek_Thessaly
    9.52760725 Greek_Laconia
    9.62090952 Albanian_Kosovo
    He is a single individual, "Illyrius" from the forum ending in ....-city to be exact.
    While he is an outlier he has a close match on gedmatch with similar results (also Albanian).
    Interestingly he is R-U152 but I don't think it's resolved further downstream.

  10. #35
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    curiously I ran mine on K13

    Distance to: TorzioK13
    2.84056815 Italian_North_Alpine
    7.10191523 Italian_North
    9.23246446 North_Macedonian
    10.55479038 Bosniak_Sandžak
    10.81767997 Torbesh
    10.91829199 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    10.92863212 Austrian_Tyrol
    10.96351677 Albanian
    11.01673273 US_New-York-City
    11.33977072 Swiss_French
    11.34944492 Italian_Center
    11.62167802 Aromanian
    11.98660920 Montenegrin
    12.15137029 Romanian_South
    12.47082596 French_Corsica
    12.55127882 Romanian_Centre
    12.69399464 Romanian
    12.85499903 Portuguese
    12.92438780 Bulgarian_Western
    13.23141338 Bulgarian_Central
    13.37591118 Bulgarian_Eastern
    14.18812532 Greek_North
    14.45193759 Gagauz_Moldova
    14.49120078 Serb
    14.70514536 Swiss_German



    Target: TorzioK13
    Distance: 0.7701% / 0.77010268 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    33.6 Italian_North_Alpine
    24.1 Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria
    21.9 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    11.9 Bosniak_Sandžak
    6.3 Sardinian
    2.2 Kalash
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather paternal mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

    "Fear profits man, nothing"

  11. #36
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    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    He is a single individual, "Illyrius" from the forum ending in ....-city to be exact.
    While he is an outlier he has a close match on gedmatch with similar results (also Albanian).
    Interestingly he is R-U152 but I don't think it's resolved further downstream.
    If he is R-U152 no wonder he is so close to Tuscan and Northern Italians.

  12. #37
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Can you post also Eurogenes K36 ???
    There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Are those Deep Maniot samples self-made coordinates created from original partial Maniot coordinates? The results seem fine but also many of those unique outliers are almost always self made (i.e extracted). I would not recommend them, sorry.
    It's an average of 4 full Maniots, genotyped with high coverage raw data. I'm not sure what you mean by self made, or why you assume that. A significant proportion of the Greek averages come from what I have posted online, and I have pretty good standards for what is an acceptable average. Every average I post must have more than 1 individual, as I strongly disagree with basing averages on individuals such as that 'Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite' average. In most cases, the individuals must have their family trees posted on MyHeritage or AncestryDNA, before they are added to an average. Also, individuals must have above 165,000 SNP overlap with Eurogenes K13, as from my experience, coordinates which come from low SNP overlap raw data such as the one in the OP are much more prone to being outliers. The only time I would ever forego the last case is if the area is extremely unique and only has the low SNP overlap kits available from that area.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Can you post also Eurogenes K36 ???
    Sure! Please post any possibly interesting result that you might find if you use it with the available datasheets.
    _20220319_184114.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by 23abc View Post
    It's an average of 4 full Maniots, genotyped with high coverage raw data. I'm not sure what you mean by self made, or why you assume that. A significant proportion of the Greek averages come from what I have posted online, and I have pretty good standards for what is an acceptable average. Every average I post must have more than 1 individual, as I strongly disagree with basing averages on individuals such as that 'Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite' average. In most cases, the individuals must have their family trees posted on MyHeritage or AncestryDNA, before they are added to an average. Also, individuals must have above 165,000 SNP overlap with Eurogenes K13, as from my experience, coordinates which come from low SNP overlap raw data such as the one in the OP are much more prone to being outliers. The only time I would ever forego the last case is if the area is extremely unique and only has the low SNP overlap kits available from that area.
    In my friend's case, her grandson, who is of very mixed (greek) background his Myheritage kit produced VERY similar results with his WGS derived kit which had basically 100% overlap. I understand that's not always the case though.
    He may test her with Ancestry too in the future, it was going to be the first choice but budgetary restrictions (and a very good offer ) turned his attention to Myheritage.

  15. #40
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    What a pity since it's such an inaccurate and misleading calculator.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    What a pity since it's such an inaccurate and misleading calculator.
    Are you talking about K36 Angela?

  17. #42
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Are you talking about K36 Angela?
    No, bigsnake, I was talking about MyHeritage.

    I can't comment about K36 because I've never tested it against myself.

  18. #43
    Regular Member mount123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Albanians usually plot quite far east of Tuscans (Slavic, not West European admixture), but parallel, if that makes sense.

    I've never seen an Albanian plot with Northern Italians. The only people from the Balkans whom I've seen plot with Northern Italians are Bulgarians occasionally, or Romanians.

    We've known this for decades, since the days of Cavalli-Sforza.

    As for Southern Italians/Sicilians, they're closest to people from the Peloponnese and some of the islands.
    Where did these Bulgarians and Romanians come from? I find it quite dubious that populations whose ethnogenesis is predominantly Slavic can plot in this direction.


    As far as Albanians and Kosovars are concerned, the autosomal differences related to certain regions are quite underestimated. The accuracy with which the Slavic admixture in them can be measured is also rather approximate.


    My father comes from Ulpiana (Central Kosovo) and gets 14.87% Baltic (I know that doesn't necessarily equate with Slavic) and 26.25% North Atlantic with this K13 calculator; the "Slavic input" seems to be significantly smaller than that of mainstream Albanians.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I find it hard to believe that Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite is a legit sample, or this is just a fluke, or perhaps due to low resolution.

    Albanians do not cluster with Central Italians, regardless of religion. This person would be an outlier, not only for Albania, but for the entire Balkans in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Sure! Please post any possibly interesting result that you might find if you use it with the available datasheets.
    _20220319_184114.jpg


    In my friend's case, her grandson, who is of very mixed (greek) background his Myheritage kit produced VERY similar results with his WGS derived kit which had basically 100% overlap. I understand that's not always the case though.
    He may test her with Ancestry too in the future, it was going to be the first choice but budgetary restrictions (and a very good offer ) turned his attention to Myheritage.
    Ancestry is the superior calculator to pretty much all of the consumer-genomic test, this is quantifiable, when you look at the amount of SNPs yielded in the raw data.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I find it hard to believe that Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite is a legit sample, or this is just a fluke, or perhaps due to low resolution.
    Albanians do not cluster with Central Italians, regardless of religion. This person would be an outlier, not only for Albania, but for the entire Balkans in general.
    Considering that Balkans_IA was a south-to-central Italians-like genetic profile. maybe this group of Albanians were insulated from Slavic input, perhaps.
    Last edited by Jovialis; 21-03-22 at 07:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Considering that Balkans_IA was a south-to-central Italians-like genetic profile. maybe this group of Albanians were insulated from Slavic input, perhaps.
    There definitely is a slight autosomal north west pull in some Kosovar and Geg groups overall, my region included. Considering the Patterson/Reich et. al. IA Illyrian samples or Mathieson MBA Posusje samples and knowing how they plot it is not really a surprise to me. They were not modern south/central Italian like though neither did they overlap with IA Latini, they clearly form their own cluster.

    The Mirdita sample is very odd to me since he also has an elevated West Asian percentage. Having a lower Baltic percentage than mainstream Albanians (usually 18-22 %) is not really a rarity and is heavily tied to what region you are from. I got 15.07%, my father gets 14.87%. I have relatives who are on the 12 percentile but 9% like this Mirdita inidividual seems very very unusual. I really doubt that his results are legit (probably low resolution or smh) unless during the time of fascist Italy some highly unlikely mixing happened but even then that result does not seem to work out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I find it hard to believe that Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite is a legit sample, or this is just a fluke, or perhaps due to low resolution.

    Albanians do not cluster with Central Italians, regardless of religion. This person would be an outlier, not only for Albania, but for the entire Balkans in general.
    It is probably an outlier but Mirdita is the most isolated region in Albania.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 23abc View Post
    It's an average of 4 full Maniots, genotyped with high coverage raw data. I'm not sure what you mean by self made, or why you assume that.
    I meant like extracting coordinates from someone who is like half Thessalian and half Maniot and creating a full Maniot sample well that was clearly not the case here. Do you mind sharing those Deep Maniotes coordinates?
    Last edited by ihype02; 01-04-22 at 23:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    There definitely is a slight autosomal north west pull in some Kosovar and Geg groups overall, my region included. Considering the Patterson/Reich et. al. IA Illyrian samples or Mathieson MBA Posusje samples and knowing how they plot it is not really a surprise to me. They were not modern south/central Italian like though neither did they overlap with IA Latini, they clearly form their own cluster.

    The Mirdita sample is very odd to me since he also has an elevated West Asian percentage. Having a lower Baltic percentage than mainstream Albanians (usually 18-22 %) is not really a rarity and is heavily tied to what region you are from. I got 15.07%, my father gets 14.87%. I have relatives who are on the 12 percentile but 9% like this Mirdita inidividual seems very very unusual. I really doubt that his results are legit (probably low resolution or smh) unless during the time of fascist Italy some highly unlikely mixing happened but even then that result does not seem to work out.
    The sample I am referring to is:

    Code:
    Balkan_(Bulgaria)_IA:I5769:Mathieson_2018,2.57,0,2.28,0,37.94,13.19,0,0,9.59,0.01,34.31,0.12
    At least, according to Olalde et al 2021 pre-print, is pretty representative of the region in the IA.

    INB4 someone mentions the modeling of the paper*

    The PCAs check out, could be a coincidence. However, Aegean_BA/IA + northern Balkan groups makes too much sense to me, imo. The same dymanic happened in Southern, (particularly South-Eastern) Italy, which was observed in Sarno et al. 2021. Except in the Southern Italian scenario instead of Northern Balkan groups, it was Northwestern European groups ultimately originating from France.






    I feel strongly about this, because all of this was confirmed in my own analysis of European populations, using Dodecad K12b, and aDNA.

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