Greek from Elis (Western Peloponnese) Gedmatch results

[lacreme]

Myheritage kit.
What do you think about her results? Supposedly her village (right on the borders with Arcadia) is an old mix of Arcadian migrants from the vicinity of modern day municipality of Gortynia and local people from Elis.


Eurogenes K13

Chris_paternal_grandmother_(Elis_Greece),22.69,9.72,22.79,9.8,27.71,5.11,0,0.44,0,0,0.43,0,1.3

Updated (from a so-called "bigger" regions list)

Distance to:    Target
5.18147662    Italian_Center
5.37254130    Greek_Lefkada
6.67935626    Greek_Euboea_South
7.00201400    Italian_South
7.46105891    Greek_Athens
7.56601612    Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
7.71033722    Greek_Kefalonia
7.73669180    Greek_Laconia
7.78909494    Greek_Cyclades
8.05455772    Greek_Messenia
8.15559317    Greek_Peloponnese
8.20067070    Greek_Arcadia
8.31792041    Greek_Tsakonia
8.38233261    Greek_Central
8.45858144    Greek_Southeast_Laconia
8.71135466    French_Corsica
8.92127794    Greek_Thessaly
9.23055795    Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
9.37981343    Albanian
9.43618567    Greek_Andros
9.47082362    Maltese
9.59629095    Torbesh
9.77308549    Greek_Samos
10.17901763    Italian_North
10.28330200    Greek_Epirus
10.62208078    Greek_Deep_Mani
10.67664741    Greek_Achaea
10.89881645    Greek_CentralMacedonia
11.31129966    Greek_Thrace
11.45946334    Greek_Kythera
11.55190460    Greek_West
11.75605376    Turkish_Crete
11.78731946    Jew_Ashkenazi
11.94018425    Aromanian
12.40789265    Jew_Moldova
12.92159433    Greek_Florina
13.03174202    Turkish_Macedonia
13.25502546    Greek_Lesbos
13.63235856    North_Macedonian
13.79708665    Greek_Ikaria
13.82544394    Jew_Morroco
13.88966522    Greek_Crete
14.60742962    Greek_Nisyros
15.06501577    Jew_Italy
15.13013219    Greek_Chios
15.27566692    Jew_Sephardi
15.51565661    Jew_Algeria
16.04220371    Greek_Kalymnos
16.26384948    Bulgarian_Eastern
16.47618585    Italian_North_Alpine

Distance to:    Target
1.84783185    76.40% Italian_North + 23.60% Samaritan
1.92863689    77.20% Italian_North + 22.80% Lebanese_Christian
1.97476812    69.80% Greek_Deep_Mani + 30.20% Spanish_Valencia
2.02588610    48.20% Italian_North + 51.80% Maltese
2.05070752    71.00% Italian_Center + 29.00% Jew_Ashkenazi
2.05969957    68.40% Greek_Deep_Mani + 31.60% Portuguese
2.06528997    72.40% Greek_Andros + 27.60% Spanish_Galicia
2.10814816    70.60% Greek_Deep_Mani + 29.40% Spanish_Castile-León
2.11103799    69.20% Greek_Deep_Mani + 30.80% Spanish_Murcia
2.15124864    52.00% Greek_Andros + 48.00% Italian_North

Updated (from a so-called "smaller" regions list)

Distance to:    Target
4.35004598    Italian_Marche
4.62371063    Italian_Lazio
5.13150076    Italian_Abruzzo
5.30293315    Italian_Umbria
5.37254130    Greek_Lefkada
5.53175379    Italian_Romagna
5.74773869    Italian_Molise
6.09523584    Italian_Basilicata
6.67935626    Greek_Euboea_South
6.72037945    Italian_Apulia
6.81139486    Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite
6.94587647    Italian_Sicily
6.97529928    Albanian_South_Albania
7.27714917    Italian_Tuscany
7.46105891    Greek_Athens
7.56601612    Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
7.71033722    Greek_Kefalonia
7.73669180    Greek_Laconia
7.78909494    Greek_Cyclades
8.05455772    Greek_Messenia
8.15559317    Greek_Peloponnese
8.20067070    Greek_Arcadia
8.31792041    Greek_Tsakonia
8.38233261    Greek_Central
8.39858917    Italian_Campania
8.71135466    French_Corsica
8.71950113    Albanian_Central_Albania
8.92127794    Greek_Thessaly
9.23055795    Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
9.43618567    Greek_Andros
9.47082362    Maltese
9.59629095    Torbesh
9.77308549    Greek_Samos
9.89261341    Albanian_Macedonia
10.23190598    Albanian_North_Albania
10.28330200    Greek_Epirus
10.29805321    Italian_Emilia
10.62208078    Greek_Deep_Mani
10.62833007    Albanian_Kosovo
10.67664741    Greek_Achaea
10.89881645    Greek_CentralMacedonia
11.29599487    Italian_Calabria
11.30096014    Italian_Liguria
11.45946334    Greek_Kythera
11.55190460    Greek_West
11.75605376    Turkish_Crete
11.78731946    Jew_Ashkenazi
11.89131616    Greek_Istanbul
12.07177700    Macedonian_South
12.85616973    Aromanian

Distance to:    Target
1.76500765    40.00% Italian_Lombardy + 60.00% Maltese
1.88101156    62.40% Italian_Tuscany + 37.60% Jew_Ashkenazi
1.90182931    42.60% Cypriot_Greek + 57.40% Swiss_Italian
1.96103953    67.00% Maltese + 33.00% Swiss_Italian
1.97210323    74.20% Italian_Romagna + 25.80% Jew_Italy
1.97476812    69.80% Greek_Deep_Mani + 30.20% Spanish_Valencia
1.99467659    62.80% Greek_Andros + 37.20% Italian_Piedmont
2.00009586    62.80% Italian_Calabria + 37.20% Swiss_Italian
2.00501781    57.00% Italian_Tuscany + 43.00% Maltese
2.02550276    43.20% Greek_Andros + 56.80% Italian_Tuscany

Dodecad K12b

Chris_paternal_grandmother_(Elis_Greece),4.7,0,4.57,1.22,30.31,18.59,0,0,9.73,0,30.87,0

Updated

Distance to:    Target
4.14055552    Italian_Lazio
4.40580118    Italian_Marche
4.86326022    Italian_Abruzzo
5.15618076    Italian_Umbria
5.97554182    Greek_Athens
6.02696441    Greek_Central
6.15208908    Italian_Molise
6.24834378    Italian_Apulia
6.71248091    Albanian
6.96624720    Greek_Peloponnese
7.00835929    Italian_Romagna
7.37714715    Italian_Campania
7.40011486    Italian_Basilicata
7.48485805    Italian_Sicily
7.63854044    Greek_Thrace
7.81478727    Greek_Foca
7.89128633    Greek_Thessaly
8.28492607    Greek_Lemnos
8.29912044    Greek_Thessaloniki
9.46247853    Ashkenazi_Jew
9.55691373    Moldovan_Jewish
9.87490253    Albanian_Kosovo
10.04188229    Italian_Tuscany
10.10305894    Bulgarian_Thrace
10.23052785    Italian_Calabria
10.97425168    Greek_Izmir
11.10976147    French_Corsica
11.27520288    Macedonian_South
11.30713934    Turk_Makedonya
11.62974634    Italian_Emilia
11.64911585    Greek_Fournoi
12.09886358    Italian_Liguria
12.11238209    Macedonian_Vardar
12.52337814    Greek_Macedonia
13.02841510    Greek_Crete
13.62007342    Macedonian_East
13.78686331    Italian_Jew
13.89506747    Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
14.17207113    Macedonian_Polog
14.18472770    Turk_Trakya
14.36809312    Moldovan_Gagauz
14.44318524    Bulgarian_East
14.47163778    Italian_Veneto
14.67326140    Greek_Icaria
14.87985215    Italian_Lombardy
14.89014439    Italian_Piedmont
15.52592670    Italian_Friuli_VG
15.62040652    Greek_Kos
15.79975316    Turk_Deliorman
16.16860538    Bulgarian_Central

Distance to:    Target
2.36458164    39.40% Italian_Veneto + 60.60% Moldovan_Jewish
2.37726601    38.60% Italian_Lombardy + 61.40% Moldovan_Jewish
2.42206775    41.40% Austrian_Tyrol + 58.60% Sephardic_Jew
2.47837720    66.00% Moldovan_Jewish + 34.00% Swiss_Italian
2.52961591    67.20% Italian_Umbria + 32.80% Moldovan_Jewish
2.54678242    61.00% Ashkenazi_Jew + 39.00% Italian_Veneto
2.60137933    67.80% Greek_Izmir + 32.20% Portuguese
2.63363860    43.80% Italian_Liguria + 56.20% Moldovan_Jewish
2.65050262    58.60% Italian_Romagna + 41.40% Moldovan_Jewish
2.70987193    44.80% Italian_Emilia + 55.20% Moldovan_Jewish

I can provide the coordinates for any additional calculator requested

[bigsnake49]

it points out as per another thread about a new article (reference forthcoming) how close Peloponnesian people are to to Italians but in her case the Central Italians. Usually the Peloponnesian's are close to Southern Italians.

[brick]

it points out as per another thread about a new article (reference forthcoming) how close Peloponnesian people are to to Italians but in her case the Central Italians. Usually the Peloponnesian's are close to Southern Italians.

She is north of Southern Italians and southeast of Central Italians.

K13

[brick]

Only Italians and Greeks in the PCA. She is slightly southeast of the Central Italians and has an anomalous position compared to the Greek averages.

K13

[brick]

Similar results with K12

[lacreme]

it points out as per another thread about a new article (reference forthcoming) how close Peloponnesian people are to to Italians but in her case the Central Italians. Usually the Peloponnesian's are close to Southern Italians.

Knowing full well that the results of a single individual could be very different from the average, I was wondering, what kind of mix could have resulted in these type of results ? Would a combination of east Arcadian and Arvanite/Vlach like populations work ?
Her village is right next to the arcadian lands of the former municipality of Iraia (now part of Gortynia) , an area recorded as mostly arvanite inhabited during the medieval period. If the "older", high medieval period, central peloponnesians were more Tsakonian/East arcadian shifted then I can only think of this type of mix (plus later migrants from other parts of Greece of course) . It could be just a case of poor overlap between Myheritage raw data and Eurogenes calculators though and nothing more or less...

Only Italians and Greeks in the PCA. She is slightly southeast of the Central Italians and has an anomalous position compared to the Greek averages.

Can you do the same with her dodecad data? Thanks!

[brick]

Can you do the same with her dodecad data? Thanks!

Already done, post #5

[Jovialis]

it points out as per another thread about a new article (reference forthcoming) how close Peloponnesian people are to to Italians but in her case the Central Italians. Usually the Peloponnesian's are close to Southern Italians.

Indeed, here's the title, for some reason my phone won't copy web links.

"Assessing temporal and geographic contacts across the Adriatic Sea through the analysis of genome-wide data from Southern Italy"

[bigsnake49]

Interesting also to see an overlap of Greek Thessaly and Greek Thrace in the second PCA.

[lacreme]

Already done, post #5

Yeah, I saw it after posting my message, thanks!
Similar case for Dodecad too then, interesting!
Any other calculator worth playing with?

(My friend will buy her G25 coordinates soon)

[Jovialis]

it points out as per another thread about a new article (reference forthcoming) how close Peloponnesian people are to to Italians but in her case the Central Italians. Usually the Peloponnesian's are close to Southern Italians.

I get a pretty close distance:

Distance to:	Jovialis
4.42421744	Chris_paternal_grandmother_(Elis_Greece)

[bigsnake49]

I get a pretty close distance:

Distance to:	Jovialis
4.42421744	Chris_paternal_grandmother_(Elis_Greece)

Jovialis you're one of us .

[Jovialis]

Jovialis you're one of us .

Una faccia, una razza :)

[Palermo Trapani]

Glad to have found this thread. Need a break from the political ones. My distances, not quite as close as Jovialis, but reasonable. I think Jovialis's modeling using Minoan to capture Southern Italians was dead on. This recent pre-print seems to be providing solid evidence on what Jovialis Modeling showed. Well done!

[Jovialis]

Thanks Palermo!

[A. Papadimitriou]

Knowing full well that the results of a single individual could be very different from the average, I was wondering, what kind of mix could have resulted in these type of results ? Would a combination of east Arcadian and Arvanite/Vlach like populations work ?
Her village is right next to the arcadian lands of the former municipality of Iraia (now part of Gortynia) , an area recorded as mostly arvanite inhabited during the medieval period. If the "older", high medieval period, central peloponnesians were more Tsakonian/East arcadian shifted then I can only think of this type of mix (plus later migrants from other parts of Greece of course) . It could be just a case of poor overlap between Myheritage raw data and Eurogenes calculators though and nothing more or less...

You should consider the possibility of influence of early Slavic (West Slavic) groups and people from N. Italy.
My maternal grandmother from Messenia has an essentially adapted/corrupted Venetian name.

[matadworf]

it points out as per another thread about a new article (reference forthcoming) how close Peloponnesian people are to to Italians but in her case the Central Italians. Usually the Peloponnesian's are close to Southern Italians.

Actually I'm Peloponnesian and cluster with Central Italians; Marche typically first. Deep Maniots or Tsaknonians cluster with Abruzzo or other Souther Italian Groups but from what I've seen on G25 Peloponnesians, Thessalians, Rumeliotes, Epirotes cluster with Central Italians.

[lacreme]

Just did a K13 3D PCA run.
She is still on the "Italian" cline but
On the Z-axis she is on the same level/height with South Italians and some Balkan subpopulations (some Greek and Albanian regions) . The Central Italian averages form a cluster far "lower" from all of them with the only Balkan average close on the Z-axis to them being the very atypical Albanian Mirdite average (consisting of a single individual) who is between the Balkan and the Italian cline on the 2D version.

[Jovialis]

Just did a K13 3D PCA run.
She is still on the "Italian" cline but
On the Z-axis she is on the same level/height with South Italians and some Balkan subpopulations (some Greek and Albanian regions) . The Central Italian averages form a cluster far "lower" from all of them with the only Balkan average close on the Z-axis to them being the very atypical Albanian Mirdite average (consisting of a single individual) who is between the Balkan and the Italian cline on the 2D version.

The directions they are pulled in depends on the components, and can radically change by introducing or taking away samples projected.

[Jovialis]

Based on my experience Dodecad is better at decerning different types of farmer DNA. That's why it is a good calculator for Southern Europeans. But it seems to not work so well for determining WHG from Steppe. Euroogenes calcs seem to be the opposite.

[Jovialis]

Based on my experience Dodecad is better at decerning different types of farmer DNA. That's why it is a good calculator for Southern Europeans. But it seems to not work so well for determining WHG from Steppe. Euroogenes calcs seem to be the opposite.

Because of Dodecad K12b's ability to decern farmer DNA better, I was able to create the models for southern Europeans which led to me noticing that Minoans are indeed a good proxy.

[Jovialis]

Based on my experience Dodecad is better at decerning different types of farmer DNA. That's why it is a good calculator for Southern Europeans. But it seems to not work so well for determining WHG from Steppe. Euroogenes calcs seem to be the opposite.

Eurogenes seems to better for eastern Europeans, because their farmer ancestry is much smaller, and less relevant for accurately modeling them. But also because it is better at decerning components that do matter for modeling them.

[Jovialis]

I said to Davidski on anthrogenica that Dodecad was better for Southern Europeans, and he rebuked my claim. Asserting that G25 was better on both accounts. However, it is my honest observation, I'm not trying to be a t-roll. Recently, I tried to recreate my Minoan calcu set on G25 and the farmers were all jumbled on the 3D PCA. Though WHG, steppe, and others looked finely projected.

[lacreme]

Forgot to add, just for fun, her actual ethnicity estimate from Myheritage... I know their estimates leave a lot to be desired but her significant Balkan shift at least seems logical according to her ancestry. For this reason, her placement on the "Italian" cline is more of a coincidence -I think- than something like the connection presented on the upcoming Adriatic seas paper.
_20220303_103548.jpg
Genetic groups:
High confidence: Greece
Medium: Romania, Italy/France/Germany, Albanians in N. Macedonia and in Albania, Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia
Low: Crete

The directions they are pulled in depends on the components, and can radically change by introducing or taking away samples projected.

I used all the available averages of Greeks+Cypriots, Italians, Albanians, N. Macedonians, Bulgarians, Romanians+Aromanians and Turks.
I understand what you are saying but it produced seemingly clear/well defined placements and pulls. If you have a more suitable list please share it.

[Jovialis]

Try using all west Eurasians.

Also if it is the "updated' list, I see some were user submitted from the Apricity, from single individuals...