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Thread: Ancient Italy K8 Model (Dodecad K12b)

  1. #26
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    14-10-21
    Posts
    198

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a-Z1903>>PF6863
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV16

    Ethnic group
    Italian, English, Irish
    Country: United States



    British Isles + Calabrian = pseudo Northern Italian
    Distance to: malaparte
    1.87958186 44.40% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 55.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    1.89503588 41.60% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 58.40% C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    2.31189153 41.60% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 58.40% C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019
    2.51736624 43.80% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 56.20% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    2.54615496 42.00% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 58.00% C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
    2.65179364 41.20% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 58.80% C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    2.73300606 42.40% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 57.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    2.77016537 44.60% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 55.40% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    2.84885272 44.80% Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015 + 55.20% C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
    2.91473218 42.20% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 57.80% C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    2.93533480 43.00% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 57.00% C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    3.04410664 44.40% Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015 + 55.60% C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    3.10336229 42.40% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 57.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.12442915 41.40% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 58.60% C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019
    3.14359042 43.20% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 56.80% C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    3.20189238 46.00% Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018 + 54.00% C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
    3.21008419 45.60% Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018 + 54.40% C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    3.30659765 44.20% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 55.80% C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    3.30969676 44.20% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 55.80% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    3.34638374 43.00% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 57.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.43302820 41.40% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 58.60% C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019
    3.47976241 42.20% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 57.80% C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    3.52413749 43.60% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 56.40% C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    3.55171983 43.20% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 56.80% C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019
    3.70315321 45.20% Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015 + 54.80% C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019

  2. #27
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
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    08-01-19
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27/R-Y45921

    Country: Brazil



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Most of these calculators and the ones by others as well show high Central Italian Neolithic for me, 73% in some of the runs, lowering my Yamnaya by about 3%.

    I wish there were more Italians posting their results so I could see if that holds true.

    I would be really interested, for example, in results from the Marche and Umbria.to see where they fall in the cline.
    Hi Angela.

    I don't know if this information will help you. The modern coordinates used as target are from the Italians of Marche and Umbria and were taken from the updated Vahaduo Dodecad K12 spreadsheet. It was used as source the Jovialis's original produced in this thread.

    Distance to: Italian_Umbria
    23.81414706 Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017
    23.82701198 Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017
    25.15173354 Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    25.35030572 Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017
    26.32666139 Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    26.58492430 Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    26.82019016 Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    27.00905589 Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    27.60229338 Anatolian_BA:I2683:Lazaridis_2017
    28.34750606 C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    28.48049859 Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017
    28.55217155 Minoan:Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017
    28.79588686 C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    29.25250758 C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    29.73908371 C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019
    29.78593460 C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019
    30.40092926 C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019
    30.62725584 C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    31.88117156 C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
    33.17301765 C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019
    36.34360879 C_Italian_ChL:R5:Antonio_2019
    39.22463894 C_Italian_ChL:R1014:Antonio_2019
    44.49631333 Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015
    48.19812859 Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015
    57.04024632 Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015


    Distance to: Italian_Marche
    22.13260681 Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017
    22.15253990 Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017
    23.44018055 Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    23.60312530 Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017
    24.79636635 Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    24.96989315 Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    25.26544288 Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    25.43636971 Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    25.86181749 Anatolian_BA:I2683:Lazaridis_2017
    26.95776630 Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017
    27.01141729 Minoan:Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017
    27.19959014 C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    27.68119044 C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    28.20914469 C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    28.72113549 C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019
    28.76254829 C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019
    29.43452707 C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019
    29.76205510 C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    31.12222139 C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
    32.70925288 C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019
    35.93388184 C_Italian_ChL:R5:Antonio_2019
    38.70070005 C_Italian_ChL:R1014:Antonio_2019
    44.75709669 Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015
    48.49391966 Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015
    58.11480280 Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015

    Target: Italian_Umbria
    Distance: 0.2171% / 0.21707844
    49.9 Minoan
    26.8 Yamnaya
    14.1 Remedello
    8.0 C_Italian_N
    1.0 Iberomaurusian
    0.2 C_Italian_ChL


    Target: Italian_Marche
    Distance: 0.1049% / 0.10488226
    50.2 Minoan
    26.4 Yamnaya
    16.7 C_Italian_N
    5.6 Remedello
    0.9 Iberomaurusian
    0.2 C_Italian_ChL

    Distance to: Italian_Umbria
    3.82098539 30.20% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 69.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.26836529 30.20% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 69.80% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.28828282 30.40% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 69.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.39452262 29.80% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 70.20% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    4.41574424 32.40% Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015 + 67.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.57440089 32.00% Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015 + 68.00% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    4.57864870 29.80% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 70.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.65379471 29.80% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 70.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.69000448 32.60% Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015 + 67.40% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.80314108 32.40% Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015 + 67.60% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    4.97583656 33.00% Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018 + 67.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    5.06172417 30.40% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 69.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    5.12625106 29.80% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 70.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.16716305 32.60% Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018 + 67.40% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    5.20275166 29.40% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 70.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.36996328 28.00% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 72.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.44406449 30.40% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 69.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    5.46008406 28.40% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 71.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.50983261 28.60% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 71.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    5.52363019 29.00% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 71.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.68359232 28.40% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 71.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.70599054 28.80% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 71.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    5.70717682 28.80% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 71.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    5.77655101 31.00% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 69.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    5.81406045 31.40% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 68.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017


    Distance to: Italian_Marche
    3.04365085 28.60% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 71.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.32428084 28.80% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 71.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.68471648 28.20% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 71.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.04302632 28.20% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 71.80% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.38581483 27.00% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 73.00% Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    4.38796719 28.60% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 71.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    4.42933269 28.20% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 71.80% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.44583283 27.80% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 72.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.53946217 27.00% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 73.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.61140939 28.80% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 71.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    4.65087717 27.40% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 72.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.69116164 27.00% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 73.00% Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    4.69695901 27.40% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 72.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.70647303 26.60% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 73.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.72205191 27.40% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 72.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.77497306 27.00% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 73.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.83270518 31.00% Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015 + 69.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.84075911 30.60% Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015 + 69.40% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    4.91937988 31.00% Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015 + 69.00% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    4.94462986 31.40% Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015 + 68.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    5.01105234 26.60% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 73.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    5.02257707 28.20% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 71.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    5.04420279 28.80% Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015 + 71.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.12934252 29.20% Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015 + 70.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    5.15861134 27.80% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 72.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017

  3. #28
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    I see the anthrogenica crew is still kicking around here utilizing the let's throw any groups at the calculators that will give us the results we want even if they're modern populations which are not accurate at all chronologically or archaeologically.

    I, half Northern Italian and half TSI like, get very good fits using Central Italian Neolithic plus some Yamnaya. Or, alternatively, Remedello, Central Italian Chalcolithic, Yamnaya, and Minoan or Greek Islander. Or, Iron Age Italics plus some Crete Islander. In fact, I get 70% Latin on some analyses with the rest being Crete Islander.

    Those are the archaeological cultures which are appropriate historically and archaeologically. The analysis is supported by uniparental dna.

    I get bad scores using ancient "Imperial Roman" plus "Celtic", because it doesn't approximate the populations which went into creating me. Period.

    Your "analyses" always fail the "smell" test as well as any elementary reasoning. It's like telling a Uighur that an analysis finding he is half Chinese and half British is in any way a meaningful window into his past.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  4. #29
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Hi Angela.

    I don't know if this information will help you. The modern coordinates used as target are from the Italians of Marche and Umbria and were taken from the updated Vahaduo Dodecad K12 spreadsheet. It was used as source the Jovialis's original produced in this thread.

    Distance to: Italian_Umbria
    23.81414706 Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017
    23.82701198 Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017
    25.15173354 Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    25.35030572 Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017
    26.32666139 Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    26.58492430 Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    26.82019016 Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    27.00905589 Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    27.60229338 Anatolian_BA:I2683:Lazaridis_2017
    28.34750606 C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    28.48049859 Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017
    28.55217155 Minoan:Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017
    28.79588686 C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    29.25250758 C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    29.73908371 C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019
    29.78593460 C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019
    30.40092926 C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019
    30.62725584 C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    31.88117156 C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
    33.17301765 C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019
    36.34360879 C_Italian_ChL:R5:Antonio_2019
    39.22463894 C_Italian_ChL:R1014:Antonio_2019
    44.49631333 Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015
    48.19812859 Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015
    57.04024632 Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015


    Distance to: Italian_Marche
    22.13260681 Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017
    22.15253990 Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017
    23.44018055 Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    23.60312530 Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017
    24.79636635 Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    24.96989315 Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    25.26544288 Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    25.43636971 Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    25.86181749 Anatolian_BA:I2683:Lazaridis_2017
    26.95776630 Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017
    27.01141729 Minoan:Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017
    27.19959014 C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    27.68119044 C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    28.20914469 C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    28.72113549 C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019
    28.76254829 C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019
    29.43452707 C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019
    29.76205510 C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    31.12222139 C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
    32.70925288 C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019
    35.93388184 C_Italian_ChL:R5:Antonio_2019
    38.70070005 C_Italian_ChL:R1014:Antonio_2019
    44.75709669 Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015
    48.49391966 Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015
    58.11480280 Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015

    Target: Italian_Umbria
    Distance: 0.2171% / 0.21707844
    49.9 Minoan
    26.8 Yamnaya
    14.1 Remedello
    8.0 C_Italian_N
    1.0 Iberomaurusian
    0.2 C_Italian_ChL


    Target: Italian_Marche
    Distance: 0.1049% / 0.10488226
    50.2 Minoan
    26.4 Yamnaya
    16.7 C_Italian_N
    5.6 Remedello
    0.9 Iberomaurusian
    0.2 C_Italian_ChL

    Distance to: Italian_Umbria
    3.82098539 30.20% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 69.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.26836529 30.20% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 69.80% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.28828282 30.40% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 69.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.39452262 29.80% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 70.20% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    4.41574424 32.40% Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015 + 67.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.57440089 32.00% Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015 + 68.00% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    4.57864870 29.80% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 70.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.65379471 29.80% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 70.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.69000448 32.60% Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015 + 67.40% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.80314108 32.40% Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015 + 67.60% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    4.97583656 33.00% Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018 + 67.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    5.06172417 30.40% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 69.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    5.12625106 29.80% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 70.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.16716305 32.60% Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018 + 67.40% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    5.20275166 29.40% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 70.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.36996328 28.00% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 72.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.44406449 30.40% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 69.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    5.46008406 28.40% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 71.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.50983261 28.60% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 71.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    5.52363019 29.00% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 71.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.68359232 28.40% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 71.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.70599054 28.80% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 71.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    5.70717682 28.80% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 71.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    5.77655101 31.00% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 69.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    5.81406045 31.40% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 68.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017


    Distance to: Italian_Marche
    3.04365085 28.60% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 71.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.32428084 28.80% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 71.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.68471648 28.20% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 71.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.04302632 28.20% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 71.80% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.38581483 27.00% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 73.00% Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    4.38796719 28.60% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 71.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    4.42933269 28.20% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 71.80% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.44583283 27.80% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 72.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.53946217 27.00% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 73.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.61140939 28.80% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 71.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    4.65087717 27.40% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 72.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.69116164 27.00% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 73.00% Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    4.69695901 27.40% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 72.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.70647303 26.60% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 73.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.72205191 27.40% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 72.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    4.77497306 27.00% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 73.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.83270518 31.00% Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015 + 69.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.84075911 30.60% Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015 + 69.40% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    4.91937988 31.00% Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015 + 69.00% C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    4.94462986 31.40% Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015 + 68.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    5.01105234 26.60% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 73.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    5.02257707 28.20% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 71.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    5.04420279 28.80% Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015 + 71.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    5.12934252 29.20% Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015 + 70.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    5.15861134 27.80% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 72.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    Very interesting. Thank-you, Duarte.

    Tuscans definitely cluster with Northern Italians, and the Marche and Umbria are closer to Central Italy. Interestingly, Marche, although at the same "latitude" as Umbria, is more "southern" in its genetics. I wonder if there would be a difference if I had data for Northern vs. Southern Marche.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I see the anthrogenica crew is still kicking around here utilizing the let's throw any groups at the calculators that will give us the results we want even if they're modern populations which are not accurate at all chronologically or archaeologically.
    I barely vist anthrongenica. On the contrary, I come here because I view people like Jovialis and Pax Augustus as the most knowledgeable people online when it comes to Italian population genetics. You're no slouch yourself, but you can't separate politics from inquiry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Your "analyses" always fail the "smell" test as well as any elementary reasoning. It's like telling a Uighur that an analysis finding he is half Chinese and half British is in any way a meaningful window into his past.
    Evidently you're the one who cannot read in this instance. I said PSEUDO northern Italian. I simply shared my results using the calculator provided, just as I shared that I had relatively high Anatolian BA and Iberomaurusian. And I acknowledged that the results are likely unreliable in my case due to mixed ancestry, in ways that cannot as yet be unraveled.

    Or should we now have a rule that only 100% pure Italians are allowed to share their results? If so, please the state the rule boldly and I will abide by it.

  6. #31
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stefano View Post
    What is Bolshoy_Ostrov? why is it included? On a pca it seems near to Yamnaya.
    From: Ancient Fennoscandian genomes reveal origin and spread of Siberian ancestry in Europe

    Abstract

    European population history has been shaped by migrations of people, and their subsequent admixture. Recently, ancient DNA has brought new insights into European migration events linked to the advent of agriculture, and possibly to the spread of Indo-European languages. However, little is known about the ancient population history of north-eastern Europe, in particular about populations speaking Uralic languages, such as Finns and Saami. Here we analyse ancient genomic data from 11 individuals from Finland and north-western Russia. We show that the genetic makeup of northern Europe was shaped by migrations from Siberia that began at least 3500 years ago. This Siberian ancestry was subsequently admixed into many modern populations in the region, particularly into populations speaking Uralic languages today. Additionally, we show that ancestors of modern Saami inhabited a larger territory during the Iron Age, which adds to the historical and linguistic information about the population history of Finland.

    (…)
    Broadly, present-day Europeans have ancestors in three deeply diverged source populations: European hunter-gatherers who settled the continent in the Upper Paleolithic, Europe’s first farmers who expanded from Anatolia across Europe in the early Neolithic starting around 8000 years ago, and groups from the Pontic Steppe that arrived in Europe during the final Neolithic and early Bronze Age ~ 4500 years ago. As a consequence, most Europeans can be modelled as a mixture of these three ancestral populations3.
    This model, however, does not fit well for present-day populations from north-eastern Europe such as Saami, Russians, Mordovians, Chuvash, Estonians, Hungarians, and Finns: they carry additional ancestry seen as increased allele sharing with modern East Asian populations1,3,9,10.
    (…)







  7. #32
    Regular Member Stefano's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Thanks Duarte for the explanation on Bolshoy_Ostrov.


    I have noticed that using Hallstat/La Tène instead of yamnaya improves the results for northern italians, lowering the fit, both in mixed and in two modes.

    While C_Italian_N + Yamnaya is an acceptable approximation i think it lacks something, especially in alpine parts of italy.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefano View Post
    Thanks Duarte for the explanation on Bolshoy_Ostrov.


    I have noticed that using Hallstat/La Tène instead of yamnaya improves the results for northern italians, lowering the fit, both in mixed and in two modes.

    While C_Italian_N + Yamnaya is an acceptable approximation i think it lacks something, especially in alpine parts of italy.
    I was going to refer you to Jovialis' calculator on "La Tene to Model Italians" thread, but then saw that you were last person to comment there

  9. #34
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Distance to: Torziok12b
    35.11114353 Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017
    35.17248783 Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017
    35.37032372 C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    35.43131383 C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019
    35.48590002 C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    35.61154869 Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    35.70662824 C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    35.71676357 C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019
    35.73146792 C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019
    35.82832957 C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    35.85533015 Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017
    35.97029330 C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019
    36.08090908 Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    36.31372743 C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
    37.16272460 Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    37.54310722 Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    37.65628766 Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    37.99875524 C_Italian_ChL:R5:Antonio_2019
    38.82834918 Anatolian_BA:I2683:Lazaridis_2017
    39.21310113 Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017
    39.40315470 Minoan:Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017
    41.68266066 Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015
    42.53935825 C_Italian_ChL:R1014:Antonio_2019
    45.09681474 Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015
    50.74563627 Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

  10. #35
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    Distance to: C6-Imperial_Rome_(n=13)
    1.54313291 Italian_Campania
    1.99298904 Italian_Molise
    2.67254660 Italian_Basilicata
    2.70117309 Italian_Abruzzo
    2.98035580 Italian_Sicily
    4.39661643 Italian_Apulia
    4.58181833 Italian_Calabria
    5.35800529 Greek_Lemnos
    5.58613648 Ashkenazi_Jew
    6.35601393 Moldovan_Jewish
    6.75179844 Greek_Foca
    6.86378607 Greek_Izmir
    6.87973261 Greek_Fournoi
    7.65389076 Greek_Central
    7.69169167 Greek_Athens
    7.94419996 Greek_Crete
    8.14392875 Italian_Marche
    8.48170732 Italian_Lazio
    8.93514354 Italian_Jew
    9.53744632 Greek_Icaria
    9.78969384 Greek_Kos
    9.82909601 Greek_Peloponnese
    9.86080691 Italian_Umbria
    10.51454988 Greek_Rhodes
    11.27820557 Sephardic_Jew
    11.29814371 Albanian
    11.66178364 Italian_Romagna
    11.88330104 Greek_Thrace
    12.50021375 Greek_Thessaly
    12.52959471 Greek_Thessaloniki
    13.47045933 Morocco_Jew
    14.03516865 Bulgarian_Thrace
    14.54954841 Italian_Tuscany
    14.63525267 Turk_Cyprus
    14.70249604 French_Corsica
    14.95332165 Albanian_Kosovo
    15.02198970 Turk_Makedonya
    16.10742415 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
    16.30714300 Italian_Emilia
    16.56450948 Macedonian_South
    16.56552111 Turk_Trakya
    17.16474376 Turk_West_Black_Sea
    17.18694399 Italian_Liguria
    17.41372992 Macedonian_Vardar
    17.56423741 Greek_Macedonia
    17.64525817 Turk_Northwest
    17.72839264 Greek_Cypriot
    18.49194912 Turk_Southwest
    18.58563935 Turk_Central_West
    18.93212973 Moldovan_Gagauz
    18.97633155 Macedonian_East
    19.06088295 Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
    19.09579025 Bulgarian_East
    19.10874119 Turk_Deliorman
    19.44655727 Macedonian_Polog
    19.54532478 Greek_Cappadocia
    19.97902240 Italian_Veneto
    20.02091573 Italian_Lombardy
    20.13971978 Italian_Piedmont
    20.79432720 Turk_Central_East
    21.11998847 Italian_Friuli_VG
    21.12184372 Bulgarian_Central
    21.25470386 Turk_South
    21.37014069 Nusayri_Turkey
    21.37373256 Pomak_Greece
    21.79960174 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
    21.91360127 Pomak_Bulgaria
    22.56195618 Turk_Southeast
    22.58228674 Bulgarian_West
    22.68372980 Romanian_Muntenia
    22.72970349 Lebanese_Muslim
    23.35282567 Romanian_Oltenia
    23.56846992 Romanian_Dobrogea
    23.68586868 Swiss_Italian
    23.86826324 Lebanese_Christian

  11. #36
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    ^^I deleted the original post, because I made a mistake in the average. I accidently put a Late Antiquity sample in the mix.

    Here is the corrected version:

    Code:
    C6-Imperial_Rome_(n=12),8.63,0.187272727,2.805454545,0.270909091,28.64272727,13.66454545,0.134545455,0.219090909,11.27727273,0.138181818,33.83181818,0.198181818

  12. #37
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    ^^I deleted the original post, because I made a mistake in the average. I accidently put a Late Antiquity sample in the mix.

    Here is the corrected version:

    Code:
    C6-Imperial_Rome_(n=12),8.63,0.187272727,2.805454545,0.270909091,28.64272727,13.66454545,0.134545455,0.219090909,11.27727273,0.138181818,33.83181818,0.198181818
    Distance to: C6-Imperial_Rome_(n=12)
    1.98351970 Italian_Campania
    2.36331921 Italian_Basilicata
    2.61374609 Italian_Molise
    2.93977820 Italian_Sicily
    3.04321682 Italian_Abruzzo
    4.47868948 Italian_Calabria
    4.50571712 Italian_Apulia
    5.25139942 Greek_Lemnos
    5.73387584 Ashkenazi_Jew
    6.40187582 Moldovan_Jewish
    6.66150989 Greek_Fournoi
    6.72030677 Greek_Izmir
    6.87600872 Greek_Foca
    7.67469960 Greek_Crete
    7.91513197 Greek_Central
    8.01795743 Greek_Athens
    8.60764121 Italian_Marche
    8.87672008 Italian_Jew
    8.89178658 Italian_Lazio
    9.47850609 Greek_Kos
    9.48846551 Greek_Icaria
    10.10368949 Greek_Peloponnese
    10.21009996 Greek_Rhodes
    10.31746602 Italian_Umbria
    11.15980064 Sephardic_Jew

    Distance to: C6-Imperial_Rome_(n=12)
    4.47715875 Jovialis
    4.90570405 S_Italian_Sicilian_D:Dodecad_(n=10)
    5.61743434 Sicilian_D:Dodecad_(n=15)
    8.63112368 C_Italian_D:Dodecad_(n=13)
    8.91819007 Ashkenazy_Jews:Behar_(n=17)
    9.05347374 Ashkenazi_D:Dodecad_(n=19)
    9.52416666 Greek_D:Dodecad_(n=15)
    11.17164940 Sephardic_Jews:Behar_(n=19)
    11.81609555 O_Italian_D:Dodecad_(n=5)
    12.71918828 Tuscan:HGDP_(n=7)
    13.37627225 Morocco_Jews:Behar_(n=15)
    13.91087624 TSI30:Metspalu_(n=21)
    20.60977098 N_Italian_D:Dodecad_(n=5)
    20.96541146 Cypriots:Behar_(n=11)
    21.49697072 Turkish_D:Dodecad_(n=27)
    21.83010693 North_Italian:HGDP_(n=11)
    23.30132508 Bulgarian_D:Dodecad_(n=7)
    23.73081858 Bulgarians_Y:Yunusbayev_(n=10)
    24.09872734 Turks:Behar_(n=19)
    24.53531268 Lebanese:Behar_(n=7)
    24.80458399 Romanians:Behar_(n=16)
    27.02420338 Syrians:Behar_(n=15)
    27.78698723 Kurds_North:GEDmatch_(n=13)
    28.43991633 Jordanians:Behar_(n=20)
    28.46168917 Druze:HGDP_(n=32)


  13. #38
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    Code:
    Imperial-age_Marche_(n=2),8.03,0.24,2.22,0.79,30.54,15.60,0.00,0.00,10.52,0.00,32.08,0.00
    Maciamo created the above code for the average of the two samples from Imperial Marche. I am actually pretty close to this one.

    Distance to: Jovialis
    2.64620483 Imperial-age_Marche_(n=2)

    Distance to: Imperial-age_Marche_(n=2)
    1.85230377 25.60% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 74.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    1.91935155 25.20% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 74.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    2.01881479 26.40% Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015 + 73.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    2.12373104 25.80% Yamnaya:I0444_SVP58:Haak_2015 + 74.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    2.12681932 25.40% Yamnaya:RISE552:Allentoft_2015 + 74.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    2.27757528 25.40% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 74.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    2.28380399 24.80% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 75.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    2.29360958 24.80% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 75.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    2.29886473 25.40% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 74.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    2.44160165 26.20% Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015 + 73.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    2.46878271 26.00% Yamnaya:I0231_SVP3:Haak_2015 + 74.00% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    2.49132064 25.80% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 74.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    2.54717348 24.60% Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015 + 75.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    2.55603604 24.60% Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015 + 75.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    2.59226754 27.40% Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015 + 72.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    2.70757822 25.20% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 74.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    2.77203596 25.60% Yamnaya:I0444_SVP58:Haak_2015 + 74.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    2.88240720 25.60% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 74.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    2.96522847 25.20% Yamnaya:RISE552:Allentoft_2015 + 74.80% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    2.96915650 26.80% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 73.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017
    3.00607161 27.00% Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018 + 73.00% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.06074750 26.80% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 73.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017
    3.06330296 25.00% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 75.00% Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    3.16130762 26.40% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 73.60% Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017
    3.17511909 25.00% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 75.00% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017

  14. #39
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Jovialis: Thanks again. My distances to C6_Imperial Rome and Imperial_Marche:

    Distance to: PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
    3.69576785 Imperial-age_Marche_(n=2)
    3.97010367 C6-Imperial_Rome_(n=12)

  15. #40
    Regular Member italouruguayan's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malaparte View Post
    Hi Italouruguayan -- Where in Italy did your ancestors come from? And from what other countries do you have ancestry?
    Hello Malaparte!
    Surely my non-European components (18% Native American, 3% Sub-Saharan African, both inherited from my maternal side), separate my results from the true Italians. My paternal grandfather was from Veneto, and my paternal grandmother, Uruguayan, had her four Italian grandparents, I believe, from Liguria and Lombardy. The European components of my maternal side, although they are mostly Iberian (Portugal), also include a great-grandfather of my mother, of Neapolitan origin.

  16. #41
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    Italian
    Country: United States



    2 members found this post helpful.
    ... thanks Jovialis :)
    … I don't have the modern averages you posted, maybe they’re around somewhere, and I must have missed them.


  17. #42
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    6,873

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    4 members found this post helpful.
    Here is the model with the academic Italian samples Salento and Pax Augusta provided:


  18. #43
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    I noticed there is an Anatolia_BA-cline, when you organize the samples that have it from in percentage order. What else is striking is that it is throughout the entire south. I wonder if this has to due with ultra-regionalism and people not being able to leave their towns very much. Some towns perhaps had more Eastern Mediterranean influence, and/or Aegean Islander Greek colonists than others? I think it is hard to pin down southern Italy as a whole because of that dynamic if that is the case.


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