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Thread: Can a Spaniard, Romanian, and Swiss Italian understand Corsican?

  1. #1
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Can a Spaniard, Romanian, and Swiss Italian understand Corsican?

    See:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LLrTG8GHxc&t=883s

    Just click on the subtitles icon to get the English translation.

    Had no problem understanding him at all, even without looking at the written version, although it was distracting and disappointing hearing his pronounced French accent. Clearly he didn't learn it as a "madre lingua". Pity. I'd like to hear Corsican as it was.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    See:


    Just click on the subtitles icon to get the English translation.

    Had no problem understanding him at all, even without looking at the written version, although it was distracting and disappointing hearing his pronounced French accent. Clearly he didn't learn it as a "madre lingua". Pity. I'd like to hear Corsican as it was.
    It is not difficult to understand the Corsican. Phonetically many sounds resemble Portuguese.
    As for the revealed words, in Portuguese they would have the following translation.
    1) Borboleta (butterfly)
    2) varredor de rua (street cleaner)
    3) pelo (if referring to hair in the human body or in animals) or cabelo (if referring to hair in the human head)
    4) Castanha (chestnut)
    5) Ouriço (hedgehog)

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    Like I said earlier Portuguese and French sounds like your tongue gets in the way...Italian and Spanish sound more clear to my ear, and Romanian sounds most like the OG Latin to my ears...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    It is not difficult to understand the Corsican. Phonetically many sounds resemble Portuguese.
    As for the revealed words, in Portuguese they would have the following translation.
    1) Borboleta (butterfly)
    2) varredor de rua (street cleaner)
    3) pelo (if referring to hair in the human body or in animals) or cabelo (if referring to hair in the human head)
    4) Castanha (chestnut)
    5) Ouriço (hedgehog)
    Great comparative language programme, Duarte!

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    Thank you Vallicanus.
    You’re too kind.
    The original post was made by Angela.

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    Portuguese, Italian, English, Spezzino dialect (La Spezia) which is between Tuscan and Ligurian-Corsican

    Varredor-Netturbino or spazzino- street cleaner or sweeper-spazzino (from spazzare, to sweep)-u spazzinu
    Castanha-Castagna-chestnut-castagnina-castagna
    Pelo-Pelo-body hair-peo-u pelu
    Cabelo-Capelli-head hair-caveo-capillera
    Borboleta-Farfalla-butterfly-barbatoa-barrabatolla o farfalla (In Spanish it's mariposa)
    Ourico-Riccio-hedgehog-risso-u ricciu

    Corsican is very close to Tuscan, and thus to standard Italian. Your ear just has to become accustomed to the pronunciation, which has a lot of "sh" sounds and "oo" sounds at the end of words.

    Portuguese is also very similar to Italian if you look at the words; however, the pronunciation is even more different, so it's much harder for me to understand it than, say, Spanish, even though the number of similar words to Italian in the two languages might be almost the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Portuguese, Italian, English, Spezzino dialect (La Spezia) which is between Tuscan and Ligurian-Corsican

    Varredor-Netturbino or spazzino- street cleaner or sweeper-spazzino (from spazzare, to sweep)-u spazzinu
    Castanha-Castagna-chestnut-castagnina-castagna
    Pelo-Pelo-body hair-peo-u pelu
    Cabelo-Capelli-head hair-caveo-capillera
    Borboleta-Farfalla-butterfly-barbatoa-barrabatolla o farfalla (In Spanish it's mariposa)
    Ourico-Riccio-hedgehog-risso-u ricciu

    Corsican is very close to Tuscan, and thus to standard Italian. Your ear just has to become accustomed to the pronunciation, which has a lot of "sh" sounds and "oo" sounds at the end of words.

    Portuguese is also very similar to Italian if you look at the words; however, the pronunciation is even more different, so it's much harder for me to understand it than, say, Spanish, even though the number of similar words to Italian in the two languages might be almost the same.
    I found very interesting the variants in the Spezzino dialect (barbatoa-barrabatolla) to the word butterfly that resemble the Portuguese word “borboleta”. According to some etymological dictionaries of the Portuguese language, the word “borboleta” comes from “belbellita”, a term originated from the Latin word “bellus.” 'Belbellita' is a reduplication of bellus plus a diminutive suffix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    See:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LLrTG8GHxc&t=883s

    Just click on the subtitles icon to get the English translation.

    Had no problem understanding him at all, even without looking at the written version, although it was distracting and disappointing hearing his pronounced French accent. Clearly he didn't learn it as a "madre lingua". Pity. I'd like to hear Corsican as it was.

    He knows the phonetic Corsican rules but sometimes forget them! His Parisian french R is horrible! But more of all, his 'music' is not native.
    Some good polyglottic man indeed, but it doesn't rend the natural speach.

  9. #9
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    I love Corsican polyphonic singing, and their religious music, in particular, is wonderful; it's so "HUMAN" in its imagery and its attitudes.

    One of my favorites: This Morning



    If you know Italian you can certainly read the Corsican; listening to people sing is a little more difficult. I wonder if our Portuguese and French speakers can understand the written version, at least.

    Corsican Kyrie
    Sta mane un diu hè falatu
    À fà e so parte à u mondu terranu
    S'hè scusatu è hà pientu
    Hà fattu casu pè una volta à a ghjente
    L'hà guardata è intesa
    Trascambiata, sfarente
    Un diu hà postu u so pede
    pè vede sangue di l'universu si perde
    Un diu di stu cunfrontu à u statu di l'omu,
    hà capitu digià di u mortu di u mondu
    u scheletru hè rosu cundannatu à sciappà
    A u nentru, nentru di sè à prufondu.
    Da u pesu di tantu tempu persu
    Inanzu à dà solu parolle
    Un diu s'hè rinicatu
    Cum'hè un omu inchjusu
    Ind'è l'universu chì more
    Sta mane un diu s'hè tombu
    È nimu nimu n'hè stunatu
    Sta mane un diu s'hè tombu
    È nimu nimu n'hè stunatu
    Sta mane un diu hè falatu
    À fà e so parte à u mondu terranu

    ITALIAN:
    Questa mattina è caduto un dio
    Per fare la sua parte nel mondo terreno,
    Si è scusato e ha pianto,
    Ha prestato attenzione una volta per tutte alla gente
    La guardò e la sentì,
    Scambiato, diverso.

    Un dio ha messo piede
    A vedere, il sangue dell'universo è perso
    Un dio di questo confronto con lo stato dell'uomo,
    Capisce già i morti del mondo
    Lo scheletro è rosso destinato a scappare
    Nel profondo, nel profondo, nel profondo.

    Dal peso di tanto tempo perso,
    Invece, provalo
    Un dio è rinato come un prigioniero
    Nell'universo morente
    Questa mattina un dio è stato ucciso
    E nessuno, nessuno, è sorpreso

    Questa mattina un dio è stato ucciso
    E nessuno, nessuno, è sorpreso

    Questa mattina un dio è stato ucciso
    E nessuno, nessuno, è sorpreso


    Stamattina è venuto un dio
    Adempiere ai suoi doveri verso quelli sotto.
    Si è scusato, ha pianto,
    Guardò gli umani per una volta.
    Li guardava, li capiva
    Tutti, trasformati, diversi.

    Quindi un dio lo ha messo giù
    Per guardarsi intorno.
    Il sangue dell'Universo è perso,
    Un dio affronta lo stato dell'uomo.
    Aveva già capito:
    Lo scheletro del mondo morto è rosicchiato,
    Destinato a rompere,
    Dentro, in sé, nel profondo,
    A causa del peso di tutto quel tempo perso,
    Finora,
    Porta solo parole.
    Un dio ha rifiutato,
    Come un uomo rinchiuso in un mondo morente.
    Questa mattina un dio si è suicidato:
    E nessuno al mondo è sorpreso.

    ENGLISH
    This morning a god has fallen
    To do his part in the earthly world,
    He apologized and cried,
    He paid attention once and for all to the people
    He looked at her and heard her,
    Exchanged, different.

    A god has set his foot
    To see, the blood of the universe is lost
    A god of this confrontation with the state of man,
    He already understands the dead of the world
    The skeleton is red doomed to escape
    Deep down, deep inside, deep down.

    From the weight of so much time lost,
    Instead, just give it a try
    A god has reborn like an imprisoned man
    In the dying universe
    This morning a god was killed
    And no one, no one, is surprised

    This morning a god was killed
    And no one, no one, is surprised

    This morning a god was killed
    And no one, no one, is surprised


    A god came this morning
    Fulfill his duties to those below.
    He apologized, he cried,
    He looked at humans for once.
    He looked at them, he understood them
    All of them, transformed, different.

    So a god put him down
    To look around him.
    The blood of the Universe is lost,
    A god faces the state of man.
    He already understood:
    The skeleton of the dead world is gnawed,
    Doomed to break up,
    Inside, in itself, deep down,
    Because of the weight of all that time lost,
    So far,
    Just bring words.
    A god refused,
    Like a man locked in a dying world.
    This morning a god killed himself:
    And no one in the world is surprised

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I love Corsican polyphonic singing, and their religious music, in particular, is wonderful; it's so "HUMAN" in its imagery and its attitudes.

    One of my favorites: This Morning



    If you know Italian you can certainly read the Corsican; listening to people sing is a little more difficult. I wonder if our Portuguese and French speakers can understand the written version, at least.

    Corsican Kyrie
    Sta mane un diu hè falatu
    À fà e so parte à u mondu terranu
    S'hè scusatu è hà pientu
    Hà fattu casu pè una volta à a ghjente
    L'hà guardata è intesa
    Trascambiata, sfarente
    Un diu hà postu u so pede
    pè vede sangue di l'universu si perde
    Un diu di stu cunfrontu à u statu di l'omu,
    hà capitu digià di u mortu di u mondu
    u scheletru hè rosu cundannatu à sciappà
    A u nentru, nentru di sè à prufondu.
    Da u pesu di tantu tempu persu
    Inanzu à dà solu parolle
    Un diu s'hè rinicatu
    Cum'hè un omu inchjusu
    Ind'è l'universu chì more
    Sta mane un diu s'hè tombu
    È nimu nimu n'hè stunatu
    Sta mane un diu s'hè tombu
    È nimu nimu n'hè stunatu
    Sta mane un diu hè falatu
    À fà e so parte à u mondu terranu

    ITALIAN:
    Questa mattina è caduto un dio
    Per fare la sua parte nel mondo terreno,
    Si è scusato e ha pianto,
    Ha prestato attenzione una volta per tutte alla gente
    La guardò e la sentì,
    Scambiato, diverso.

    Un dio ha messo piede
    A vedere, il sangue dell'universo è perso
    Un dio di questo confronto con lo stato dell'uomo,
    Capisce già i morti del mondo
    Lo scheletro è rosso destinato a scappare
    Nel profondo, nel profondo, nel profondo.

    Dal peso di tanto tempo perso,
    Invece, provalo
    Un dio è rinato come un prigioniero
    Nell'universo morente
    Questa mattina un dio è stato ucciso
    E nessuno, nessuno, è sorpreso

    Questa mattina un dio è stato ucciso
    E nessuno, nessuno, è sorpreso

    Questa mattina un dio è stato ucciso
    E nessuno, nessuno, è sorpreso


    Stamattina è venuto un dio
    Adempiere ai suoi doveri verso quelli sotto.
    Si è scusato, ha pianto,
    Guardò gli umani per una volta.
    Li guardava, li capiva
    Tutti, trasformati, diversi.

    Quindi un dio lo ha messo giù
    Per guardarsi intorno.
    Il sangue dell'Universo è perso,
    Un dio affronta lo stato dell'uomo.
    Aveva già capito:
    Lo scheletro del mondo morto è rosicchiato,
    Destinato a rompere,
    Dentro, in sé, nel profondo,
    A causa del peso di tutto quel tempo perso,
    Finora,
    Porta solo parole.
    Un dio ha rifiutato,
    Come un uomo rinchiuso in un mondo morente.
    Questa mattina un dio si è suicidato:
    E nessuno al mondo è sorpreso.

    ENGLISH
    This morning a god has fallen
    To do his part in the earthly world,
    He apologized and cried,
    He paid attention once and for all to the people
    He looked at her and heard her,
    Exchanged, different.

    A god has set his foot
    To see, the blood of the universe is lost
    A god of this confrontation with the state of man,
    He already understands the dead of the world
    The skeleton is red doomed to escape
    Deep down, deep inside, deep down.

    From the weight of so much time lost,
    Instead, just give it a try
    A god has reborn like an imprisoned man
    In the dying universe
    This morning a god was killed
    And no one, no one, is surprised

    This morning a god was killed
    And no one, no one, is surprised

    This morning a god was killed
    And no one, no one, is surprised


    A god came this morning
    Fulfill his duties to those below.
    He apologized, he cried,
    He looked at humans for once.
    He looked at them, he understood them
    All of them, transformed, different.

    So a god put him down
    To look around him.
    The blood of the Universe is lost,
    A god faces the state of man.
    He already understood:
    The skeleton of the dead world is gnawed,
    Doomed to break up,
    Inside, in itself, deep down,
    Because of the weight of all that time lost,
    So far,
    Just bring words.
    A god refused,
    Like a man locked in a dying world.
    This morning a god killed himself:
    And no one in the world is surprised
    It's not as easy as reading Spanish or standard Italian, or even French. But, after some re-readings, it was possible to understand and see the similarity of most words with Portuguese words.

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    I follow the channel ecolinguist from a long time, it has many interesting videos about the languages of italy.
    Yesterday a new video came out about tuscan vernacular. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZm2ErE4V3c
    I also recommend you the video about lombard language https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exL-A3y9ZzA

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefano View Post
    I follow the channel ecolinguist from a long time, it has many interesting videos about the languages of italy.
    Yesterday a new video came out about tuscan vernacular. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZm2ErE4V3c
    I also recommend you the video about lombard language https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exL-A3y9ZzA
    I'm subscribed to his channel too. It's good.

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    I understand quite well.
    Maybe Romanian less, i had a hard time with Romanian.

    But I notice again the differences between Italian, French, even Catalan with Spanish in some words, and in the pronunciation.

    That must some kind of Arab, but mainly Basque influence in Castille.

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    Corsican has a peculiarity: it kept the "italian" writing for simple consonants/stops spite its pronounce them as do Occitan or Portuguese, as a whole: roughly showed

    À fà e so parte à u mondu terranu
    > ~ : [a fa e zo barte a u mondu deranu]
    S'hè scusatu è hà pientu > [se scuzadu e a pientu]
    Hà fattu casu pè una volta à a ghjente > [a fatu gazu be una (w/b)olta a a dyente]

    of course all that is not pure phonétics and just approximative. And differences exist between North and South.
    What is striking is that even at the initial the mutation (lenition) can befall, as in Celtic (Ligurian old habit too?)
    as in other western romance languages and dialects, this trend towards lenition of simple stops is linked to a loss of gemination of double stops, which are respected in standard Italian.

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