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Thread: Mobility in the Iron Age Central Mediterranean

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The Etruscan from Tarquinia labeled R10343 is one of my closest Iron Age matches.

    R11749, which is closest to Armenoi Crete at a distance of 3, is at a distance of 5.7 to Corsica, I'm a distance of 8.3, and North Italian at a distance of 9.4, Liguria 9.46, and TSI at 9.53, so maybe someone from the Balkans?

    PCAs are helpful, but only two dimensions. Two of the Tunisian samples are pretty close to Etruscans, coming in at 3 and 4 approximately.

    Perhaps the presence of "Etruscan like" remains in a Carthaginian port city shouldn't be a surprise, given that the Etruscans and Carthaginians were allies around the 530s B.C. Certainly, Greek like people, perhaps traders etc. shouldn't be a surprise..
    I hadn't commented yet but I've read the preprint when was out and I didn't find it a good work. Full of flights of fancy and stretches. As is the style of some geneticists. The truth is that Moots has few samples in hand to draw the conclusions she would like to draw, and mostly from very busy places. So that there were foreigners is yet another discovery of hot water. Take the two non-European foreigners found at Tarquinia who seem to plot with Levantines. They date from the 2nd and 1st centuries BC if I'm not mistaken, when Tarquinia had long since entered the orbit of Rome. Tarquinia was part of southern Etruria, Veio was conquered by the Romans around 396 BC, and much of southern Etruria came under Roman control gradually from 300 BC. These two individuals cannot provide any information on the origin of the Etruscans, nor on the formation of the Etruscans, at such a late date, nor do they have anything to do likely with the relations with the Punics. The basic idea that every foreign person who died in a place might have helped shape subsequent generations is very weak. But geneticists like it so much because it is a very simple idea, not to say simplistic. Not to mention that Late Neolithic Morocco is still being used in this paper as a proxy for North African ancestry, when it was the sample that came from a study showing counter-migration during the Neolithic from Iberia to North Africa.

    The third dimension is statistically unlikely to change a position significantly in my opinion. In any case the uniparental markers could help us clarify, really strange that they haven't published them anywhere. Hopefully they will when it is published. That there may be Etruscans in Tunisia is very possible, you're right. But there could have been individuals from other peoples, not only the Etruscans. The Punics did not only have relations with the Etruscans, although the genetitsts seem to be obsessed with the Etruscans. According to this preprint out of the 12 samples from Tunisia, 2 end with Italy BA (which I guess is the cluster of samples from Pian Sultano near Cerveteri), 5 end with Sicily/Greece, 4 would be local North African natives, and 1 sample is from sub-Saharan Africa. These published so far are only 6, 50% of the samples from Tunisia. Hopefully, the paper will be improved before it is published.




    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The only surprise is the lack of Levantine like people. Perhaps, as I said, cremation lasted for longer than we were aware, or there were so few of them that they were in the larger cities like Carthage itself. Otherwise, it's hard to fathom the yearly tributes to Tyre before it fell to Babylonia. It's also interesting that the Punic language had such a hold in parts of North Africa, lasting until about 500 A.D. if I remember correctly.
    Yes, it is a surprise, but it may also be due to the smallness of the sample. Here again, it is not at all true what Moots writes that "the contribution of autochthonous North African populations in Carthaginian history is obscured by the use of terms like "Western Phoenicians", and even to an extent, "Punic", in the literature to refer to Carthaginians, as it implies a primarily colonial population and diminishes indigenous involvement in the Carthaginian Empire'" There are archaeological texts from over 20 years ago that distinguish the Punics and Carthaginians from the Phoenicians and assume that the bulk of the population was local and North African.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    I hadn't commented yet but I've read the preprint when was out and I didn't find it a good work. Full of flights of fancy and stretches. As is the style of some geneticists. The truth is that Moots has few samples in hand to draw the conclusions she would like to draw, and mostly from very busy places. So that there were foreigners is yet another discovery of hot water. Take the two non-European foreigners found at Tarquinia who seem to plot with Levantines. They date from the 2nd and 1st centuries BC if I'm not mistaken, when Tarquinia had long since entered the orbit of Rome. Tarquinia was part of southern Etruria, Veio was conquered by the Romans around 396 BC, and much of southern Etruria came under Roman control gradually from 300 BC. These two individuals cannot provide any information on the origin of the Etruscans, nor on the formation of the Etruscans, at such a late date, nor do they have anything to do likely with the relations with the Punics. The basic idea that every foreign person who died in a place might have helped shape subsequent generations is very weak. But geneticists like it so much because it is a very simple idea, not to say simplistic. Not to mention that Late Neolithic Morocco is still being used in this paper as a proxy for North African ancestry, when it was the sample that came from a study showing counter-migration during the Neolithic from Iberia to North Africa.

    The third dimension is statistically unlikely to change a position significantly in my opinion. In any case the uniparental markers could help us clarify, really strange that they haven't published them anywhere. Hopefully they will when it is published. That there may be Etruscans in Tunisia is very possible, you're right. But there could have been individuals from other peoples, not only the Etruscans. The Punics did not only have relations with the Etruscans, although the genetitsts seem to be obsessed with the Etruscans. According to this preprint out of the 12 samples from Tunisia, 2 end with Italy BA (which I guess is the cluster of samples from Pian Sultano near Cerveteri), 5 end with Sicily/Greece, 4 would be local North African natives, and 1 sample is from sub-Saharan Africa. These published so far are only 6, 50% of the samples from Tunisia. Hopefully, the paper will be improved before it is published.






    Yes, it is a surprise, but it may also be due to the smallness of the sample. Here again, it is not at all true what Moots writes that "the contribution of autochthonous North African populations in Carthaginian history is obscured by the use of terms like "Western Phoenicians", and even to an extent, "Punic", in the literature to refer to Carthaginians, as it implies a primarily colonial population and diminishes indigenous involvement in the Carthaginian Empire'" There are archaeological texts from over 20 years ago that distinguish the Punics and Carthaginians from the Phoenicians and assume that the bulk of the population was local and North African.
    Completely agree. Her papers are always flawed because of the erroneous assumption that every "foreign" sample from busy port cities 'must be' an important part of the ethnogenesis of the host country.

    As to the Etruscans specifically, as you say, they formed as a people long before some of these very late samples.

    I have absolutely no idea why anyone would use Morocco Late Neolithic for Tunisian samples, but given the quality of the work, I suppose that shouldn't be a surprise either.

    You would think that someone supposedly trained in archaeology (if I'm not misremembering her background) would have read most of the relevant archaeological texts, but I guess not.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    So, no Phoenicians in Carthaginian cities. If it's because they switched away from cremation later than previously thought, fine. If not, then I guess there goes that theory that the Carthaginians brought all this Levantine ancestry to places like Sicily and Iberia.

    I know I keep doing this, but I did tell you so. I said over and over and over again that the Phoenicians were NOT colonizers, but were instead traders, and that there weren't enough of them to populate all these Carthaginian cities even before the downfall of their cities in today's Lebanon, and that I highly doubted much "Levantine" blood was spread through what were essentially trading marts.

    The Carthaginians were essentially North Africans of their time, apparently, but even then the majority of their FORCES, the men on the ground, were mercenaries from all over the known world. Included among them were my own Ligures and many Iberians especially after the Carthaginians established colonies there. Once Hannibal was in Italy many of the tribes north of the Po joined in.


    Does anyone else find her apparent surprise at the make-up of the North Africans of the time rather surprising? What else would one expect but an admixture of local HG derived ancestry, Levantine farmers (admixed, of course, with Anatolian farmers), who brought farming, and then "perhaps" some "black" African.

    I have to read the paper carefully, but I highly doubt there were enough Sicilian and Greek settlers to contribute to the "European" ancestry in modern North Africans. Much more likely to just be EEF, or maybe a bit owing to the Barbary Pirates and their slave trade.

    What always surprises me in any paper written by Moots (and affiliated people) is that she fails to grasp that the genomes of some people in port cities does not necessarily have anything to do with the genetic history of the people of the broader region.


    Exactly, historians already suggested that only the ruling elite of Carthage was Phoenician and that the Phoenician impact on the native Population was rather culturally than genetically. However, I do think that Levantine/Phoenician genetic input was there, albeit unevenly spread across Carthage.


    By the way, I've read some Twitter comments from Hannah Moots and she is a pro-open borders and multiculturalism apologist. It seems that the "fight against white supremacy" is being used as an excuse to politicize genetic papers in order to support certain liberal narratives. Matter of fact, it's not seldom that the involved authors have their own political spin and agendas. Hence, the usage of Morocco_HG instead of Levant_N in the Roman paper and now in this current one was probably not just a coincidence. The choice of Morocco_HG instead of Levant_N which makes Sicilians appear to be 50% North African-like, is misleading.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    I hadn't commented yet but I've read the preprint when was out and I didn't find it a good work. Full of flights of fancy and stretches. As is the style of some geneticists. The truth is that Moots has few samples in hand to draw the conclusions she would like to draw, and mostly from very busy places. So that there were foreigners is yet another discovery of hot water. Take the two non-European foreigners found at Tarquinia who seem to plot with Levantines. They date from the 2nd and 1st centuries BC if I'm not mistaken, when Tarquinia had long since entered the orbit of Rome. Tarquinia was part of southern Etruria, Veio was conquered by the Romans around 396 BC, and much of southern Etruria came under Roman control gradually from 300 BC. These two individuals cannot provide any information on the origin of the Etruscans, nor on the formation of the Etruscans, at such a late date, nor do they have anything to do likely with the relations with the Punics. The basic idea that every foreign person who died in a place might have helped shape subsequent generations is very weak. But geneticists like it so much because it is a very simple idea, not to say simplistic. Not to mention that Late Neolithic Morocco is still being used in this paper as a proxy for North African ancestry, when it was the sample that came from a study showing counter-migration during the Neolithic from Iberia to North Africa.

    The third dimension is statistically unlikely to change a position significantly in my opinion. In any case the uniparental markers could help us clarify, really strange that they haven't published them anywhere. Hopefully they will when it is published. That there may be Etruscans in Tunisia is very possible, you're right. But there could have been individuals from other peoples, not only the Etruscans. The Punics did not only have relations with the Etruscans, although the genetitsts seem to be obsessed with the Etruscans. According to this preprint out of the 12 samples from Tunisia, 2 end with Italy BA (which I guess is the cluster of samples from Pian Sultano near Cerveteri), 5 end with Sicily/Greece, 4 would be local North African natives, and 1 sample is from sub-Saharan Africa. These published so far are only 6, 50% of the samples from Tunisia. Hopefully, the paper will be improved before it is published.






    Yes, it is a surprise, but it may also be due to the smallness of the sample. Here again, it is not at all true what Moots writes that "the contribution of autochthonous North African populations in Carthaginian history is obscured by the use of terms like "Western Phoenicians", and even to an extent, "Punic", in the literature to refer to Carthaginians, as it implies a primarily colonial population and diminishes indigenous involvement in the Carthaginian Empire'" There are archaeological texts from over 20 years ago that distinguish the Punics and Carthaginians from the Phoenicians and assume that the bulk of the population was local and North African.


    Thanks for the good analysis and breakdown of the paper. It's always good that there are people like you who can give a historical and archeological context for ancient DNA findings.

  5. #30
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    it is a true bummer
    that we don't know the y haplogroups of the tunisian
    iron age male remains

    could be some j1 type or e-v65, e-m81
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

    "Know where you came from and where you are going."

    Direct paternal line : mizrahi from damascus

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    it is a true bummer
    that we don't know the y haplogroups of the tunisian
    iron age male remains

    could be some j1 type or e-v65, e-m81
    … this ENA Project has only 6 Tunisian samples, … all females, … I Think!

    PRJEB49419

    R11749
    R11755
    R11776
    R11780
    R11790
    R11791

    Last edited by Salento; 20-04-22 at 04:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    … this ENA Project has only 6 Tunisian samples, … all females, … I Think!

    PRJEB49419

    R11749
    R11755
    R11776
    R11780
    R11790
    R11791


    yes but in the paper those other 4 are males :

    R11746.SG
    R11751.SG
    R11753.SG
    R11793.SG


    from a reason unknown to me ENA decide not to include them
    maybe they are in horrible quality i don't know

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    One thing that is frustrating about these studies, is that they often don't specify where the samples came from, they only vaguely mentioned the site, but not the tombs.
    Sant'Imbenia for instance was a Nuragic coastal village known for the production of the Sant'Imbenia amphorae, but neither a necropolis nor individual tombs are ever mentioned in any publication about it.
    Last edited by Pygmalion; 23-04-22 at 20:45.

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    Interesting thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    … this ENA Project has only 6 Tunisian samples, … all females, … I Think!

    PRJEB49419

    R11749
    R11755
    R11776
    R11780
    R11790
    R11791




    what a bummer ( personaly for me no E at all )
    user from anthrogenica post this today:

    A member of the E-M81 project group apperantely got them.

    2x J2b2
    1x J2b1
    1x J2a

    J2b1
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z597/

    J2a
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y14439/

    Still got no info on the J2b2s.



    p.s
    tell you the truth it realy put good prove for the theory that the main
    haplogroup of the pheonicians is j2
    ( like pierre zoulla research years ago )

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    A bit off Phoenicians having more J2b2-L283 and J2b1 and on general J2 and no J1 and E-M35, ain't it? But, i guess specific groups despite having and speaking one language family could have been of different male lineages. Like in case of Indo-European groups, especially the latter groups.

    Could it be that those J2b2-L283 were picked in Sardinia? Were Punicized Nuragics?

    edit: you edited and removed the J2b2-L283 yfull, i guess it was a mistake then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    A bit off Phoenicians having more J2b2-L283 and J2b1 and on general J2 and no J1 and E-M35, ain't it? But, i guess specific groups despite having and speaking one language family could have been of different male lineages. Like in case of Indo-European groups, especially the latter groups.
    Could it be that those J2b2-L283 were picked in Sardinia? Were Punicized Nuragics?
    edit: you edited and removed the J2b2-L283 yfull, i guess it was a mistake then?
    I just put what he posted in anthrogenica
    It is extremely hard for me to read posts
    There
    But i wont give up my hobby just because
    Of some creatures in anthrogenica
    Who hate with no forgivnece
    I will continue to watch new posts there
    What we know for sure that those 4 punic males belong to y haplogroup j....
    I always thought that e-v22 under e-m78 could be the pheonician e-m35 version...

    P.s
    I am dissapointed i expected at least 1 e-v65
    Individual
    As maybe the pheonicians absorbed some native north african lines and later spread it to the other side of the med- sea

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Update:

    Today i look in another dna forum
    By anlaysis by expert apperently
    1 out of the 4 male carthegenians
    Was r1b >v88

    R11746; 733-411 BC; Kerkouane; Tunisia IA; R1b-V2219>V88>PF6287>pre-Y7777

    R11751; 729-409 BC; Kerkouane; Tunisia IA; J2b2a-L283>Z622>Z600>Z2509>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Y15058>Z 38240>Z38241>PH1602

    R11753; 656-405 BC; Kerkouane; Tunisia IA; J2b2a-L283>Z622>Z600>Z2509>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Y15058>Z 38240

    R11793; 761-405 BC; Kerkouane; Tunisia IA; J2a-Z6064>Z6055>Z6057>Y7013>Y7010>Y13128>Y14434>Y14439 >Z28527>Z35779>PF7415* (xZ28524)

  14. #39
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Phoenicians who established trading marts across the Mediterranean were most probably an extremely small group who just set up the original trading posts. As I've always maintained, their cities were NOT the result of any folk movement, as was the case for the Greeks.

    I think the major point is being overlooked. A lot of these samples may be Italian and Greek in origin. This is a port city. Some of these "scientists" can't seem to grasp the fact that a lot of bodies buried in port cities were NOT the bodies of locals.

    The remainder may have North African y lines. V88 had to get to Cameroon somehow, after all. They didn't fly from Southeast Europe to the middle of Africa.

    All of that said, this is a small collection of samples. Any more definitive conclusions will have to wait for a larger collection of male samples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Dod. k12b

    Code:
    R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,8.39,0,4.23,0.02,14.92,0,0,1.82,26.08,0.60,43.93,0.02
    R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,1.43,0,1.33,1.31,45.54,24.78,0,0,5.23,0,20.20,0.17
    R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.72,0,0,0,47.09,27.17,0,0.38,3.98,0.96,16.09,0.61
    R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,5.36,0.92,2.37,0,44.54,35.11,0,0,0.67,0.29,10.47,0.28
    R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.53,0,0.89,0.50,42.32,22.36,0,0.20,6.37,0,23.83,0
    R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,0,0,1.23,0,46.50,22.77,0,0.45,5.62,0,23.36,0.06
    R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,2.99,0.05,0,0.53,50.17,22.59,0,0,5.48,0,17.89,0.30
    R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.60,0,0.51,0.44,47.07,28.51,0,0,3.73,0.34,15.32,0.48
    R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,1.29,0.37,1.15,0.50,45.66,26.89,0.46,0,5.41,0,17.79,0.48
    R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,0,0,0.03,0,48.34,33.89,0,0,3.33,0.03,13.48,0.90
    R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,2.02,0,1.27,0.73,48.52,24.33,0,0,4.65,0,17.94,0.54
    R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,1.58,0.48,0.37,0,51.51,23.78,0,0,5.12,0,16.42,0.73
    R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,0,0,1.27,0,51.48,23.67,0,0,6.23,0.38,16.75,0.22
    R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,3.77,0,68.53,9.35,0,0.30,6.72,0,11.32,0
    R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,3.81,0.29,68.29,6.22,0,0,6.29,0,15.10,0
    R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,2.92,0.41,68.58,4.55,0,0,6.97,0,16.43,0.14
    R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,2.93,0,4.71,0,41.35,15.75,0.45,1.66,10.27,0,22.35,0.52
    R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0,0,17.73,0.53,35.75,9.11,0,2.86,11.62,0,21.49,0.91
    R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,1.64,0,3.57,0.84,35.67,10.95,0.36,0.28,13.35,0.18,33.02,0.16
    R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,2.13,0,4.17,0.93,33.91,12.31,0,0,12.53,0.11,33.56,0.36
    R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0,0,14.84,0.06,42.01,6.16,0.32,1.40,14.37,0,20.07,0.77
    R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0.53,0,9.07,0.24,42.62,12.67,1.07,0.86,9.97,0,22.65,0.33
    Urbino-Bivio and Palazzo della Cancelleria (Rome) of the updated ENA Project PRJEB53564 (deprecated PRJEB52852), ... PRJEB49419 (above) is also included in the: "Population structure in Europe since the Iron Age, despite high mobility".
    (I’m still not confident in the validity of many Isola Sacra bams).
    Code:
    R1223_Cancelleria_1480_AD,8.54,0.57,0,0.32,40.45,37.15,0.62,0.62,0.59,0,11.13,0
    R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD,9.73,1.57,1.93,0,31.12,10.92,0,0.48,11.42,0.13,32.29,0.42
    R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD,6.83,0,1.75,0,31.64,13.94,0,0,9.50,1.34,34.43,0.58
    R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD,6.32,0.04,4.92,0,30.28,15.96,0,0.91,10.55,0,31.00,0
    R1294_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD,2.14,0,0.61,0,40.29,35.60,0.94,0,2.15,0,16.96,1.31
    R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE,3.24,0,4.65,0,28.06,16.02,0,0.33,13.02,0.26,33.78,0.66
    R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE,1.68,0,4.39,0,37.83,18.10,0,0.45,9.36,0,28.20,0
    R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE,6.65,0.61,3.33,0,32.96,10.05,0,0.64,11.29,0,34.40,0.06
    R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE,5.49,0.11,2.54,0,30.85,9.84,0,0,14.67,0,36.50,0
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...973v1.full.pdf

  16. #41
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Thanks, Salento.

    Distance to: Angela
    5.15410516 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    6.30652836 R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE
    7.97667224 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    9.06009382 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    10.57215683 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    11.94774874 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    13.14547070 R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    13.24072506 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    13.33748852 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    13.72491894 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    13.87059119 R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    14.11623533 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    14.27710755 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    15.14151908 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    15.50673725 R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    15.93252962 R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    16.09062771 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    16.11301337 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    16.35236374 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    16.84864386 R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE
    19.06320540 R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    19.75376926 R1294_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    21.31968574 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    21.65624621 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    22.02798220 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano

    As the results show, I'm closest to a Tarquinia B.C. sample at a distance of 5.2.

    I looked up the closest modern population:
    Distance to: R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    4.23489079 Italian_Lombardy
    5.18297212 Italian_Liguria
    5.53000000 Italian_Emilia
    6.44970542 French_Corsica
    6.51933279 Italian_Tuscany
    6.81667808 Italian_Piedmont
    7.52742071 Swiss_Italian
    7.59028326 Italian_Veneto
    9.16475313 Italian_Trentino
    9.29428857 Italian_Romagna
    10.44050765 Spanish_Baleares
    10.59155796 Italian_Friuli_VG
    10.87286991 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    11.21395113 Italian_Umbria
    12.02955111 Spanish_Castilla-Leon
    12.27713729 Spanish_Valencia
    12.31253605 Italian_Marche
    12.38050080 Portuguese
    12.98645448 Spanish_Catalonia
    12.99473355 Italian_Lazio
    13.08614917 Spanish_Canarias
    13.84442487 Spanish_Andalusia
    14.19827454 Spanish_Aragon
    14.37990612 Spanish_Galicia
    14.74407678 Albanian_Kosovo
    I get close distances to Liguria, Emilia, Corsica, and Tuscany, so it makes sense.

    For the next closest sample, from the Imperial period: so much for all imperial samples being West Asian.

    Distance to: R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE
    4.74765205 French_Corsica
    6.74092724 Italian_Romagna
    7.21992825 Italian_Marche
    7.22430620 Italian_Umbria
    7.35265938 Italian_Tuscany
    8.31948917 Italian_Liguria
    8.35026946 Italian_Lazio
    8.48409099 Italian_Emilia
    10.59043908 Italian_Lombardy
    11.75338675 Italian_Abruzzo
    11.89750394 Italian_Piedmont
    12.02949708 Albanian
    12.16840581 Italian_Veneto
    12.30403186 Italian_Molise
    13.26747150 Greek_Thessaly
    13.29257311 Italian_Campania
    13.34587202 Greek_Thrace
    13.39657046 Albanian_Kosovo
    13.44062127 Greek_Athens
    13.53183284 Greek_Central
    14.09949290 Italian_Sicily
    14.15326817 Greek_Peloponnese
    14.21314181 Italian_Apulia
    14.21450536 Swiss_Italian
    14.29086421 Greek_Thessaloniki
    Corsicans, of course, speak a dialect of Tuscan.

    Next closest sample, at a distance of about 8, and buried in a tomb in a port city of the Phoenicians/Carthaginian
    Distance to: R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    5.71739451 French_Corsica
    9.46480322 Italian_Liguria
    9.76122943 Italian_Tuscany
    10.02896804 Italian_Emilia
    10.87779849 Italian_Romagna
    11.14621909 Italian_Lombardy
    12.03636008 Italian_Marche
    12.15484266 Italian_Umbria
    12.33858177 Italian_Piedmont
    12.95959876 Spanish_Canarias
    13.12803870 Italian_Lazio
    13.81409787 Italian_Veneto
    14.31056603 Portuguese
    14.37304465 Swiss_Italian
    14.91596460 Spanish_Castilla-Leon
    15.18257225 Spanish_Baleares
    15.52753683 Spanish_Valencia
    15.94512465 Italian_Trentino
    16.07597586 Italian_Friuli_VG
    16.16207289 Spanish_Andalusia
    16.79725275 Italian_Abruzzo
    16.98464601 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    17.05966002 Spanish_Galicia
    17.10218992 Spanish_Catalonia
    17.16986022 Spanish_Asturias

    As I said upthread some or all of the bodies buried in the port city were merchants and seamen from the "Italy".

    Tell me again, experts at anthrogenica, how all the people buried in Imperial Rome were "natives".

  17. #42
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Thanks you Salento!

    Distance to: Jovialis
    3.33595564 R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    5.57134634 R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    6.61017398 R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE
    7.33586396 R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    8.86937991 R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    10.52631939 R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    11.53263630 R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE
    28.03965050 R1294_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    32.36891564 R1223_Cancelleria_1480_AD

  18. #43
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Thanks you Salento!

    Distance to: Jovialis
    3.33595564 R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    5.57134634 R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    6.61017398 R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE
    7.33586396 R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    8.86937991 R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    10.52631939 R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    11.53263630 R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE
    28.03965050 R1294_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    32.36891564 R1223_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    Makes a lot of sense, R1292 looks very Abruzzo/Apulia-like

    Distance to: R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    2.08844440 Abruzzo:Alp090
    2.41749871 Apulia:cera1
    2.64947165 Apulia:cera9
    2.87374320 Sicily:TP06_Busby_2015
    3.08912609 Abruzzo:22_Behar_2013
    3.15993671 Abruzzo:15_Behar_2013
    3.18951407 Apulia:cera8
    3.18973353 Sicily:TP08_Busby_2015
    3.27233861 ItalyAbruzzo9_Behar_2013
    3.29881797 Basilicata:PG24
    3.33595564 Jovialis
    3.36689768 Molise:PG26_Molise
    3.41801112 Lazio:NOR28
    3.43464700 Campania:NaN212CR
    3.44911583 Marche:MarABY030D
    3.55600900 Sicily:W-Sicily4_Behar_2013
    3.59431496 ITS5
    3.71068727 Apulia:cera2
    3.76019946 Abruzzo:17_Behar_2013
    3.81569129 Abruzzo:16_Behar_2013
    3.88605198 Sicily:W-Sicily7_Behar_2013
    3.92456367 Marche:MarACO100D
    4.00514669 Sicily:SR48R_Busby_2015
    4.03687998 Sicily:TP04_Busby_2015
    4.05413369 Sicily:Siracusa:SR64_LazaridisNat2014

  19. #44
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    thanks salento
    not that close
    but hey not an italian :)
    Distance to: adam
    7.44631452 R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE
    8.10926630 R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    8.96313003 R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    9.55865576 R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    10.07396645 R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    10.85303183 R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    12.61470174 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    14.61170079 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    17.51726862 R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE
    21.98800355 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    23.95741013 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    24.18688901 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    24.20228295 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    24.35974548 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    28.00125354 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    28.86726693 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    29.73947041 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    31.70884419 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    32.85799750 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    33.43052497 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    33.68770696 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    34.18269738 R1294_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    34.60610640 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    35.61568755 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    35.77753904 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano

  20. #45
    Regular Member Er Monnezza's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Thank you Salento for always sharing new samples!

    Distance to: Ajeje_Brazorf
    5.90600542 R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    6.33470599 R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    6.49202588 R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    6.57184905 R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    7.08645186 R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE
    7.80289049 R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    8.43410339 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    9.89360399 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene

    Distance to: Ajeje_Brazorf_imputed
    4.55717017 R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    5.22185791 R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    5.27841832 R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    5.70974605 R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    6.58041792 R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    6.80124253 R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE
    7.78710473 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    9.39207645 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene

    Distance to: ITA_Urbino-Bivio_Imperial
    4.69108596 Italian_Molise
    4.73745053 Italian_Campania
    5.56195447 Italian_Abruzzo
    6.12991741 Italian_Sicily
    6.96911669 Italian_Calabria
    7.23068721 Italian_Basilicata
    7.31778570 Ashkenazi_Jew
    7.53158493 Italian_Marche
    7.99054363 Italian_Apulia
    8.44872106 Moldovan_Jewish
    8.55020687 Italian_Lazio
    9.23016183 Italian_Umbria
    9.53116926 Greek_Athens
    9.69114222 Greek_Lemnos
    9.78873523 Greek_Foca
    9.82421435 Italian_Jew
    9.91739066 Greek_Central

  21. #46
    Regular Member
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Salento: Thanks for those new coordinates. Here are my distances (Dodecad12b, gradient is 50). I ran the first set and posted them in post #18. R1294 and 1223 are way different than the other samples for me.

    Distance to: PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
    3.64053567 R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    4.91711297 R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    5.28058709 R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    5.48906185 R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    5.74876508 R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE
    6.87954214 R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    11.14105920 R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE
    30.65660940 R1294_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    35.12479466 R1223_Cancelleria_1480_AD

    Good distances for those samples (Some of them) relative to R437 from Antonio et al 2019.

    Distance to: R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    2.14058403 R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    3.67770309 R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    4.63648574 R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    5.21542903 R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    6.90111585 R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    7.62931190 R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE
    11.64601649 R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE
    32.47246834 R1294_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    37.43829189 R1223_Cancelleria_1480_AD

    Top 5 distances for these samples using Ancient Roman Samples from Antonio et al 2019 (samples grouped by cluster, C6, C7, etc) and my own 12b coordinates. Quick review shows these new samples anchor on C6 cluster, with 2 closer to C7 (which clarifies why those 2 are furthest away from me). They are likely very much more Steppe in terms of admixture vs. me. R437 shows up in top 5 for 3 of those samples.

    Distance to: R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    5.28384330 Mediterranean_C6:R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    5.49743577 Mediterranean_C6:R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    5.58892655 Mediterranean_C6:R137_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pi etro
    5.86049486 Eastern_Mediterranean_C5:R30_Late_Antiquity_Mausol e_di_Augusto
    6.02119589 Mediterranean_C6:R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna

    Distance to: R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    2.25599202 Mediterranean_C6:R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    4.52012168 Mediterranean_C6:R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    4.56858840 Mediterranean_C6:R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_N ecropolis
    4.61060734 Mediterranean_C6:R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    4.83550411 Eastern_Mediterranean_C5:R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Erc olano_Necropolis_Ostia

    Distance to: R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE
    3.19419786 Mediterranean_C6:R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
    4.55425076 Mediterranean_C6:R1285_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
    5.75159108 Mediterranean_C6:R1283_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
    6.14420866 Mediterranean_C6:R120_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Ne cropolis_Ostia
    6.32475296 Mediterranean_C6:R111_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_N ecropolis

    Distance to: R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE
    2.88660700 Mediterranean_C6:R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    3.75012000 Mediterranean_C6:R107_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
    4.16746926 Mediterranean_C6:R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio
    4.54421610 Mediterranean_C6:R57_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    4.60711406 Mediterranean_C6:R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna

    Distance to: R1294_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    7.30135604 European_C7:R108_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
    7.34374564 European_C7:R61_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    7.86143753 European_C7:R1224_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
    8.90551515 European_C7:R1220_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
    8.91816125 European_C7:R116_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necrop olis

    Distance to: R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    3.56084260 Mediterranean_C6:R835_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marc he
    3.64053567 PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
    3.65455880 Eastern_Mediterranean_C5:R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Erc olano_Necropolis_Ostia
    4.02264838 Mediterranean_C6:R121_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Ne cropolis_Ostia
    4.20080945 Mediterranean_C6:R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna

    Distance to: R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    3.23379035 Mediterranean_C6:R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_N ecropolis
    3.32678524 Mediterranean_C6:R836_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marc he
    3.71587136 Mediterranean_C6:R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    3.72480872 Mediterranean_C6:R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necro polis
    3.78416437 Eastern_Mediterranean_C5:R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Erc olano_Necropolis_Ostia

    Distance to: R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    2.64261234 Mediterranean_C6:R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Ne cropolis_Ostia
    3.98291351 Mediterranean_C6:R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_N ecropolis
    4.24406645 Mediterranean_C6:R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    4.72361091 Mediterranean_C6:R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    4.91711297 PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY

    Distance to: R1223_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    5.30338571 European_C7:R62_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    6.40506831 European_C7:R116_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necrop olis
    7.03113078 European_C7:R1288_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
    7.22189033 European_C7:R1220_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
    7.33190971 European_C7:R1224_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria

    Thanks again Salento for the coordinates.
    Last edited by Palermo Trapani; 04-08-22 at 17:01. Reason: clarification

  22. #47
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    4 members found this post helpful.
    thanks Angela, Jovialis, PT, KingJohn, ErM …

    … adding Isola Sacra.

    Isola Sacra is a port necropolis, besides R11121 (Emilia) and a couple of others, the rest of the samples are probably foreigners or locals mixed with foreigners. I Think :)

    Code:
    R11109_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,4.95,0,2.12,0,28.31,6.36,0.39,0.02,12.58,0,45.27,0
    R11111_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,16.68,0,2.42,0.39,15.17,0,0,0,24.37,0,40.09,0.88
    R11112_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,8.59,0.16,1.37,0,23.94,4.99,0,0,13.41,0,47.54,0
    R11113_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,7.12,0,1.42,0,24.81,5.10,0,0.20,12.45,0.31,48.14,0.45
    R11115_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,1.89,1.01,2.87,0,51.51,31.73,0,0,2.57,0.59,7.45,0.38
    R11116_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,4.50,0,0.90,1.13,25.51,7.71,0,0,12.98,0,47.28,0
    R11117_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,4.21,0.74,6.54,0,25.31,8.39,0,1.42,18.39,0,34.50,0.50
    R11118_Isola_Sacra_no-timeline,0,0,4.11,0.37,65.71,7.88,0,0.03,6.06,0,15.85,0
    R11119_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,13.39,0.52,0.89,0,15.18,5.63,1.05,0,16.28,0.70,45.79,0.58
    R11120_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,5.16,0,8.59,0,29.88,10.30,0,2.37,14.85,1.72,25.40,1.74
    R11121_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,5.87,0,1.35,0,39.31,21.94,1.62,1.07,5.20,0,23.56,0.08

  23. #48
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    thanks Angela, Jovialis, PT, KingJohn, ErM …

    … adding Isola Sacra.

    Isola Sacra is a port necropolis, besides R11121 (Emilia) and a couple of others, the rest of the samples are probably foreigners or locals mixed with foreigners. I Think :)

    Code:
    R11109_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,4.95,0,2.12,0,28.31,6.36,0.39,0.02,12.58,0,45.27,0
    R11111_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,16.68,0,2.42,0.39,15.17,0,0,0,24.37,0,40.09,0.88
    R11112_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,8.59,0.16,1.37,0,23.94,4.99,0,0,13.41,0,47.54,0
    R11113_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,7.12,0,1.42,0,24.81,5.10,0,0.20,12.45,0.31,48.14,0.45
    R11115_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,1.89,1.01,2.87,0,51.51,31.73,0,0,2.57,0.59,7.45,0.38
    R11116_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,4.50,0,0.90,1.13,25.51,7.71,0,0,12.98,0,47.28,0
    R11117_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,4.21,0.74,6.54,0,25.31,8.39,0,1.42,18.39,0,34.50,0.50
    R11118_Isola_Sacra_no-timeline,0,0,4.11,0.37,65.71,7.88,0,0.03,6.06,0,15.85,0
    R11119_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,13.39,0.52,0.89,0,15.18,5.63,1.05,0,16.28,0.70,45.79,0.58
    R11120_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,5.16,0,8.59,0,29.88,10.30,0,2.37,14.85,1.72,25.40,1.74
    R11121_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD,5.87,0,1.35,0,39.31,21.94,1.62,1.07,5.20,0,23.56,0.08

    thanks salento
    still the same ( even with those isola sacra individuals) ( not my day)

    Distance to: adam
    7.44631452 R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE
    8.10926630 R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    8.96313003 R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    9.55865576 R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    10.05631145 R11117_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    10.07396645 R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    10.85303183 R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    12.61470174 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    13.04682720 R11120_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    14.61170079 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    15.88526361 R11109_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    16.64320582 R11116_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    17.36248254 R11112_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    17.51726862 R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE
    17.94343891 R11113_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    18.70461708 R11119_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    21.87565313 R11121_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    21.98800355 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    22.84453983 R11111_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    23.95741013 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    24.18688901 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    24.20228295 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    24.35974548 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    28.00125354 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    28.86726693 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi




    p.s
    it is interesting with (living dna raw data) i am closer to 1554 individual
    Distance to: adam
    6.26907489 R1554_Urbino-Bivio_125calCE-220calCE
    6.84947443 R1292_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    9.89841401 R1291_Cancelleria_500-1400_AD
    10.17039822 R1225_Cancelleria_1480_AD
    11.39521391 R11117_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    11.43086611 R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    11.87535263 R1556_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    11.94417013 R11120_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    12.12692871 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    14.09788991 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    15.33488181 R1555_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-210calCE
    18.59994355 R11109_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    19.40260807 R11116_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    19.44649326 R11121_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    19.77465044 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    20.81619322 R11112_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    21.21353106 R11113_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    21.72031538 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    22.28082584 R11119_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    22.37807856 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    23.08980944 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    25.94585323 R11111_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    26.39643915 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    26.68317447 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    26.76455305 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene

  24. #49
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    7,503

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    3 members found this post helpful.

  25. #50
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Posts
    1,470

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2-M223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2A3

    Ethnic group
    Italian-Sicily-South
    Country: United States



    Salento: Thanks again. Closest for me from these Isola Sacra samples (port city) is R1120 at 9.3, all others > 10. So I get better distances with most of Cancelleria Samples (i.e. ones that cluster with the C6 Antonio et al. 2019 cluster) from Rome Proper and Urbino samples (Marche Region).

    Distance to: PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
    9.37844337 R11120_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    10.58637332 R11117_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    15.98397635 R11109_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    16.64729708 R11121_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    18.03461117 R11116_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    19.64385146 R11112_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    19.74371039 R11113_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    23.87824114 R11119_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    26.97230988 R11111_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    38.44107569 R11115_Isola_Sacra_1AD-400AD
    40.05961557 R11118_Isola_Sacra_no-timeline

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