Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 193

Thread: Preview: Upcoming Ancient Greek Transect (Mesolithic to Medieval) from Biomuse.

  1. #76
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    12-03-12
    Posts
    345


    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: Netherlands



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    I think so too...
    Even if they are not the focus, I don't understand how can you release a paper about Greeks through the ages and have only people from Thessaloniki as representatives of the modern era. Are they still the only properly sampled samples available ?
    It's like releasing a paper on French population history and having people from Normandy as the sole representatives of the modern era... They are part of the genetic variation, sure, but it leaves a lot to be desired.
    Perhaps a University in Thessaloniki was involved in the research.

  2. #77
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    12-03-12
    Posts
    345


    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    Curious about the two “Agios Giorgios?” results and wonder if they are samples from the same location but different eras, plotting far away from each other.
    Agr1 overlaps with modern Cypriots. There is a necropolis in Cyprus also called Agios Georgios. From the Early Christian era. Could it be it? I don't know. Agios Georgios 9 is unlikely to be from Cyprus though. Too much speculation. Let's wait for the paper.

  3. #78
    Banned
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    1,262


    Country: Albania



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Knowing Classical Greeks were broadly Mycenaean-like before this study was like seeing the writing on the wall. I mean after seeing the Iron Age Greek samples from Spain and many Balkan_IA clusters being fairly close to Aegean BA.
    I understand being skeptical in 2018 but not now.
    Was there even a migration there from another population or maybe it was a just a civil war that caused the collapse in Greece?

  4. #79
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,681

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    You know these guys seem to eat an extraordinary amount of meat and animal products, and a surprisingly low amount of fruits and vegetables.
    How did you come up with that conclusion if I may ask? It might be true for the elite but I doubt it for the common farmers.

    EDIT: Never mind, duh!!! I wonder how they (the authors came up with the diet).

  5. #80
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,681

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Carnimirie View Post
    Where's the Spartan on the PCA so speculation can be cut by 90%
    Or the Macedonian samples so that speculation about the Greekness of Ancient Macedonians can be cut at least by 99%. There are some Balkan individuals that have been throwing conspiracy theory accusation that the Greek government is suppressing genetic studies because the ancient greeks might turn out to be not Greeks after all .Of course the new accusation will be that they threw away all the samples that did not fit the official narrative.

  6. #81
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-11-16
    Posts
    491


    Country: United States



    All the BC samples so far are fast twitch muscle. And the meat diet up to 90%. Good times back then.

  7. #82
    Regular Member Stefano's Avatar
    Join Date
    16-02-22
    Location
    Lombardy
    Posts
    63

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a2a1a2b3b

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Italy



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoRevenge View Post
    All the BC samples so far are fast twitch muscle. And the meat diet up to 90%. Good times back then.
    It's not 90% meat it's up to 90% animal product which includes eggs and dairy, especially dairy i think, from goats and sheeps

  8. #83
    Regular Member Ralphie Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-10-16
    Posts
    238

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a-Y18331-Y66192

    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Knowing Classical Greeks were broadly Mycenaean-like before this study was like seeing the writing on the wall. I mean after seeing the Iron Age Greek samples from Spain and many Balkan_IA clusters being fairly close to Aegean BA.
    I understand being skeptical in 2018 but not now.
    Was there even a migration there from another population or maybe it was a just a civil war that caused the collapse in Greece?
    This seems like a reasonable assumption, based on the samples available. Before the Lazaridis et al. study, some thought Mycenaeans were northern invaders and different than Minoans, but it turned out that they were very local. Some also expect the ancient Greeks got a lot of central European ancestry based on burial practices, but so far that also does not seem to be the case (no big Greek Dark Age invasions).

    It’s no surprise either that Deep Mani and East Peloponnese were shown in one academic PCA to be closer to Mycenaeans and significantly different than many other Peloponnesians. The Byzantine Empire clung to life a few times, having shrunk to just the Peloponnese and a few other areas. During the Slavic settlement period, it was there only in east Peloponnese. Maybe that has something to do with what we are seeing.

  9. #84
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    20-11-20
    Posts
    48


    Country: Greece



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    ^Red hair, blonde hair, blue eyes in some of them, but their genotype is typical of Southern Europe, predominately Anatolian_N.
    Not to be a party pooper, but these are most likely based on the HIrisPlex prediction system, so they're to be taken with a grain of salt. Likelihood of blonde hair seems to be overestimated by this system. Also, ancient DNA is pseudo-haploid, which means they read just one of the 2 positions on each SNP. With eye colour, this means that the individual could in reality have been heterozygous on the relevant SNP, which is usually expressed as brown or hazel eyes in the phenotype.

  10. #85
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    7,868

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by peloponnesian View Post
    Not to be a party pooper, but these are most likely based on the HIrisPlex prediction system, so they're to be taken with a grain of salt. Likelihood of blonde hair seems to be overestimated by this system. Also, ancient DNA is pseudo-haploid, which means they read just one of the 2 positions on each SNP. With eye colour, this means that the individual could in reality have been heterozygous on the relevant SNP, which is usually expressed as brown or hazel eyes in the phenotype.
    That doesn't poop the party for me, because it's not important to me. However, just like southern Europeans today there were surely some of them with light features. Just like southern europeans today, they were predominantly dark hair and brown eyes, with light skin.

  11. #86
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    7,868

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    What is fascinating to me is that they're consistent with Lazaridis et al. 2017. Not that I doubted it for a second, but that it proves the doubters wrong. The Myceneans and preceeding Greeks were southern European and closest to Southern Italians and Greek populations.

  12. #87
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    11-11-19
    Posts
    1,857

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    What is fascinating to me is that they're consistent with Lazaridis et al. 2017. Not that I doubted it for a second, but that it proves the doubters wrong. The Myceneans and preceeding Greeks were southern European and closest to Southern Italians and Greek populations.
    Southern-European-like people were living during Bronze Age from Southern Central Europe with Encrusted Pottery-like people down to Aegean. It's a "birds-point of view" approach taken here, being more Southern European/Neolithic without specifying further what is the specific admixture.

  13. #88
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    7,868

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Yes, it is speculation, but my speculation is also shared by Sarno et al. 2021 and Raveane et al. 2022. But ultimately as you said aDNA will show us.
    Please see my last post. I admit to starting it, but we need to move on. Otherwise we will be repeating ourselves in an off topic discussion that will turn off people to the thread.
    32 relevant People who share my speculation,

    Stefania Sarno, Rosalba Petrilli, Paolo Abondio, Andrea De Giovanni, Alessio Boattini, Marco Sazzini, Sara De Fanti, Elisabetta Cilli, Graziella Ciani, Davide Gentilini, Davide Pettener, Giovanni Romeo, Cristina Giuliani, Donata Luiselli, Alessandro Raveane, Ludovica Molinaro, Serena Aneli, Marco Rosario Capodiferro, Linda Ongaro, Nicola Rambaldi Migliore, Sara Soffiati, Teodoro Scarano, Antonio Torroni, Alessandro Achilli, Mario Ventura, Luca Pagani, Cristian Capelli, Anna Olivieri, Francesco Bertolini, Ornella Semino, Francesco Montinaro

    I myself came to the conclusion by my own analysis. Nevertheless I am not alone in my speculation, many prominent geneticists, using more sophisticated tools and methods, more sophisticated than G25, have also reach roughly the same conclusion. So I'm not just some guy on the internet, with obscure ideas.

    More and more Italian geneticists are realizing the true origins of the peopling of Italy. No more stupid speculation like Etruscans coming recently from Anatolia, or Nordic Latins.

  14. #89
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,681

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by peloponnesian View Post
    Not to be a party pooper, but these are most likely based on the HIrisPlex prediction system, so they're to be taken with a grain of salt. Likelihood of blonde hair seems to be overestimated by this system. Also, ancient DNA is pseudo-haploid, which means they read just one of the 2 positions on each SNP. With eye colour, this means that the individual could in reality have been heterozygous on the relevant SNP, which is usually expressed as brown or hazel eyes in the phenotype.
    According to some of those algorithms I should have blue gray eyes like my father and younger sister. Instead I inherited my mother's brown eyes.

  15. #90
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,681

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    When is the paper coming out? And more importantly when are the samples available?

  16. #91
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    7,868

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    According to some of those algorithms I should have blue gray eyes like my father and younger sister. Instead I inherited my mother's brown eyes.
    I don't understand what you mean. I don't think these people personally ran your DNA for you to come to that conclusion.

  17. #92
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    7,868

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    When is the paper coming out? And more importantly when are the samples available?
    Looking forward to that myself.

  18. #93
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    7,868

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    32 relevant People who share my speculation,
    Stefania Sarno, Rosalba Petrilli, Paolo Abondio, Andrea De Giovanni, Alessio Boattini, Marco Sazzini, Sara De Fanti, Elisabetta Cilli, Graziella Ciani, Davide Gentilini, Davide Pettener, Giovanni Romeo, Cristina Giuliani, Donata Luiselli, Alessandro Raveane, Ludovica Molinaro, Serena Aneli, Marco Rosario Capodiferro, Linda Ongaro, Nicola Rambaldi Migliore, Sara Soffiati, Teodoro Scarano, Antonio Torroni, Alessandro Achilli, Mario Ventura, Luca Pagani, Cristian Capelli, Anna Olivieri, Francesco Bertolini, Ornella Semino, Francesco Montinaro
    I myself came to the conclusion by my own analysis. Nevertheless I am not alone in my speculation, many prominent geneticists, using more sophisticated tools and methods, more sophisticated than G25, have also reach roughly the same conclusion. So I'm not just some guy on the internet, with obscure ideas.
    More and more Italian geneticists are realizing the true origins of the peopling of Italy. No more stupid speculation like Etruscans coming recently from Anatolia, or Nordic Latins.
    Imho, we ultimately will see that populations in the south, modeled a two-way of Steppe like plus minoan, are primarily responsible for pulling modern Italians to their current position, from Etruscans and Italics. It was a local internal migration within Italy, with a population that has been there since the Early Bronze Age. Not what what the odd bedfellows of levantists/nordicists/woke liberals believe.

  19. #94
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    15-11-21
    Posts
    33


    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Or the Macedonian samples so that speculation about the Greekness of Ancient Macedonians can be cut at least by 99%. There are some Balkan individuals that have been throwing conspiracy theory accusation that the Greek government is suppressing genetic studies because the ancient greeks might turn out to be not Greeks after all .Of course the new accusation will be that they threw away all the samples that did not fit the official narrative.
    HvKDmKN.jpg

    Unless I'm mistaken "Tenea" is Dorian land while the two nobles "Archontiko" are Macedonian, both very low steppe

  20. #95
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,681

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Carnimirie View Post
    HvKDmKN.jpg

    Unless I'm mistaken "Tenea" is Dorian land while the two nobles "Archontiko" are Macedonian, both very low steppe
    Abdera was a Ionian colony, right? Even if was mixed it would be Thracians.

  21. #96
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,681

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I don't understand what you mean. I don't think these people personally ran your DNA for you to come to that conclusion.
    Not these people. There was an algorithm at GEDmatch that predicted people's eyer color. It predicted blue gray eyes which is my father's and younger sister's color instead of taking into account my mother's side of that debate.

  22. #97
    Banned
    Join Date
    25-12-21
    Posts
    737

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    Doric/Western Greeks are different than the rest of Greeks. Idk what some are talking about? I predicted this exactly. Ancient Doric Greeks cluster more with Albanians. That's where the Dorian invasion happened.



    That's the chart I made a few months ago. Aegean Greeks/Minoans are more CHG-heavy and Mediterrenean.

  23. #98
    Banned
    Join Date
    25-12-21
    Posts
    737

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Lazaridis ****** up by not mentioning Slavic ancestry that transformed the Balkans. Pretty dishonest academically.

  24. #99
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    12-03-12
    Posts
    345


    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    Lazaridis ****** up by not mentioning Slavic ancestry that transformed the Balkans. Pretty dishonest academically.
    Don't agree with you there. What Lazaridis proved was that first Greeks were Mediterranean, rather than anything else. And that the modern Greeks and neighboring peoples were similar to them, but with some delusion of their genepool. That was the essense of the research. Like the rest of us, he didn't know exactly to what extent other people invaded Greece after the Bronze Age. But this was less relevant at that point of time. It's not that anyone expected modern Greeks to be pure Mycenaens. It's only later research which started to shed ligh into the Slavic admixture in the Balkans.

    Doric/Western Greeks are different than the rest of Greeks. Idk what some are talking about? I predicted this exactly. Ancient Doric Greeks cluster more with Albanians. That's where the Dorian invasion happened.
    I postulated that Doric Greeks were somewhat different as well. But we still don't have sufficient evidence for that.
    Last edited by Dianatomia; 28-04-22 at 23:22.

  25. #100
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    12-03-12
    Posts
    345


    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: Netherlands



    Abd4 probably represent the Hellenistic graves of Abdera, Greek Thrace. (Update: they have a video in Greek where they explain their research. Abd4 is 700-490 B.C. So it is the classical age. They are colonists from Asia Minor)

    https://www.academia.edu/36208241/HE..._IN_ABDERA.pdf

    In Akanthos, Chalkidiki, Northern Greece another ancient grave site was found. Akanthos was colonized by Greeks from the island of Andros. In the first century it was named Ierissos. So given the chosen name the graves are older than that.

    Akanthos was colonized by people from Andros (not far from Attica). Originally Ionians. Hence they overlap with Mycenaeans.

    It looks like Classical Greeks constituted of the following types: Mycenaeans, Dorians (somewhat more Northern admixtue), and Eastern Greeks who were pulled towards Cypriots. Similarly, in North-Western Asia Minor Greeks will be pulled both towards the North as well as to Cyprus. Athenians, may have all of this types due to their empire. As their empire was pointed towards Ionia/Asia Minor, while there were migrants from the North of Greece as well as Thracian slaves. We can't discard that in isolated mountain areas of the mainland Log01 and Log02 types could still be found.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Dianatomia; 04-05-22 at 12:53.

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •