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Thread: Preview: Upcoming Ancient Greek Transect (Mesolithic to Medieval) from Biomuse.

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    Preview: Upcoming Ancient Greek Transect (Mesolithic to Medieval) from Biomuse.

    This Preview of Ancient Greek Transect (Mesolithic to Medieval) from Biomuse was originally posted by Moriopoulos on AG.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....017#post843017

    The genetic heritage of ancient Greece: Bringing digitalised biohistory to museums


    The project aims to analyse a series of 50 humans, including their full genomes, who lived in Greece from the Mesolithic to the Byzantine period. Based on the study of their skeletal remains and the reconstruction of each individual’s visible and functional phenotype, we create their “individual biographies”, and transfer these reconstructions into existing or new exhibitions, museums and cultural venues.
    We propose a new approach to save, document, digitise, and share a previously underutilised source of human cultural and biological heritage information: namely, palaeogenomic and anthropological data taken directly from ancient humans.
    http://https://biomuse.eu/project/?lang=en




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    Interesting phenotype predictions and recreations:

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    Thanks for sharing, looks like an interesting study.

    Surprisingly, the female from Agios Panteleimonas is red haired which is very uncommon for the region.

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    Iron Age Greeks (leak?)

    Tried to ask moderators but private message function doesn't seem to work. Are leaks allowed here?

    Iron Age Greeks seem Mycenean-like, with elite samples as well

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    Certainly, and thank you again. Here is the image you shared with me:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnimirie View Post
    Tried to ask moderators but private message function doesn't seem to work. Are leaks allowed here?

    Iron Age Greeks seem Mycenean-like, with elite samples as well
    Seems to indeed be the case.

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    Something that was expected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnimirie View Post
    Tried to ask moderators but private message function doesn't seem to work. Are leaks allowed here?

    Iron Age Greeks seem Mycenean-like, with elite samples as well
    Thank you once again for sharing even more images:













    Wow!

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    ^Red hair, blonde hair, blue eyes in some of them, but their genotype is typical of Southern Europe, predominately Anatolian_N.

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    Interesting thread, thanks for images. Some questions:

    1) The Leaked PCA in post #2, where is this from. Is there a new working paper on Ancient Greek DNA (new samples) floating around in the works that is going to be published maybe this year?
    2) If there is such a paper, what is the name of it, is there an Abstract presented at one of these Research Conferences since obviously it is not available at Biorxiv.
    3) With regards to the Leaked PCA, can someone give me a relative position on where these Ancient Greeks by the time of the Late Bronze/Iron Age are plotting. Kind of hard to see but I do see Sicilian, Italian_South and Italian_North as populations in the PCA. Based on Lazaridis et al 2014, The Myceneans had maybe up to 16% Steppe Ancestry, which would put them as Jovialis is alluding to well within what most Southern Europeans have, e.g. Raveane et al 2019 (Figure 2, page 5) If I remember correctly had Northern Italian populations with the highest Steppe admixture at an amount of about 28%.

    Thanks, PT

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    Can someone circle where Albanians are on the PCA? I can not see where they are, the image is quite blurry.

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    They're close to the Byzantine sample.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Interesting thread, thanks for images. Some questions:

    1) The Leaked PCA in post #2, where is this from. Is there a new working paper on Ancient Greek DNA (new samples) floating around in the works that is going to be published maybe this year?
    2) If there is such a paper, what is the name of it, is there an Abstract presented at one of these Research Conferences since obviously it is not available at Biorxiv.
    3) With regards to the Leaked PCA, can someone give me a relative position on where these Ancient Greeks by the time of the Late Bronze/Iron Age are plotting. Kind of hard to see but I do see Sicilian, Italian_South and Italian_North as populations in the PCA. Based on Lazaridis et al 2014, The Myceneans had maybe up to 16% Steppe Ancestry, which would put them as Jovialis is alluding to well within what most Southern Europeans have, e.g. Raveane et al 2019 (Figure 2, page 5) If I remember correctly had Northern Italian populations with the highest Steppe admixture at an amount of about 28%.

    Thanks, PT
    The majority of the samples plot in the range of LBA Myceneans. I guess Olalde 2022 was right to use the Empuries sample.

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    There was never any reason to believe that Iron Age Greeks would be different to the preceding Mycenaeans in the first place. That original autosomal profile likely lasted all the way through Classical period. It wasn't until the Hellenistic period when Greek civilization came to dominate the Eastern Mediterranean that we see the formation of a distinctively modern looking Cretan/Dodecanesian/Cypriot-like genetic profile, very similar to the Imperial Roman samples, after extensive intermixing between the original IA/Classical Greek and Greek-speaking but autosomal West Asian people. It's highly likely that this sort of Southeast Mediterranean genetic profile persisted well into the Roman/Byzantine period, where the assimilation of the Slavs crystallized the difference we see between the mainland and islands today.

    This is why there is a similar level of Mycenaean-like ancestry (40-60%) across all modern Greeks (with the exception of Pontians from the Black Sea), with an inverse relationship between East European vs. West Asian admixture based on geography e.g. a Rhodian is a Cypriot with roughly 6% more Slavic, thus 6% less West Asian, Cretan is a Rhodian with around 8% more Slavic etc. all the way until you reach Macedonia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    They're close to the Byzantine sample.

    maybe the story that albanians first reached the adriatic sea at the time of the Byzantines conquering that part of their empire is true ....................it should be after the goths passed through and before the norman invasions of modern Albania
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather paternal mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Interesting thread, thanks for images. Some questions:

    1) The Leaked PCA in post #2, where is this from. Is there a new working paper on Ancient Greek DNA (new samples) floating around in the works that is going to be published maybe this year?

    Thanks, PT
    apparently "Upcoming Ancient Greek Transect (Mesolithic to Medieval) from Biomuse"

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    I see real expert has already made a thread on it. I will merge these two.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...)-from-Biomuse

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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    I think "Ariel" from anthrogenica's PCA is wrong, given the fact the Abdera sample is from the Archaic period. Not after 300 BC...

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    maybe the story that albanians first reached the adriatic sea at the time of the Byzantines conquering that part of their empire is true ....................it should be after the goths passed through and before the norman invasions of modern Albania

    Lol what? Please tell me you're joking.

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    My take on the PCA:



    *More Steppe was brought by later Slavic migrations too, but I also think there could have been some more steppe like people as Logkas4 and Logkas2 the further north you go.

    Quote Originally Posted by LTG View Post
    There was never any reason to believe that Iron Age Greeks would be different to the preceding Mycenaeans in the first place. That original autosomal profile likely lasted all the way through Classical period. It wasn't until the Hellenistic period when Greek civilization came to dominate the Eastern Mediterranean that we see the formation of a distinctively modern looking Cretan/Dodecanesian/Cypriot-like genetic profile, very similar to the Imperial Roman samples, after extensive intermixing between the original IA/Classical Greek and Greek-speaking but autosomal West Asian people. It's highly likely that this sort of Southeast Mediterranean genetic profile persisted well into the Roman/Byzantine period, where the assimilation of the Slavs crystallized the difference we see between the mainland and islands today.

    This is why there is a similar level of Mycenaean-like ancestry (40-60%) across all modern Greeks (with the exception of Pontians from the Black Sea), with an inverse relationship between East European vs. West Asian admixture based on geography e.g. a Rhodian is a Cypriot with roughly 6% more Slavic, thus 6% less West Asian, Cretan is a Rhodian with around 8% more Slavic etc. all the way until you reach Macedonia.
    The Northern Model work just fine for Southern Italy






    FWIW, my paternal-lineage also supports it.

    Eastern Mediterranean from the Roman Imperial era using a similar model:


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    You know these guys seem to eat an extraordinary amount of meat and animal products, and a surprisingly low amount of fruits and vegetables.

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    Thanks, this is really interesting!
    The animal based diet is not so surprising to me.
    Dairy eggs and meat are far more nutrient dense than vegetables both in calories and vitamins. If you read the odyssey they feast on meat most of the times.

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