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Thread: Ancient balkan states Y-DNA

  1. #201
    Iliria e Madhe Illyria's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oroku Saki View Post
    Yeah, right, just post as much nonsense as you are used to in your futile attempt to disassociate your Y-DNA from the Slavs.
    Says the E-V13 shkja. Go scribble some more Albanian in your notebook. Go make up more stories about having albanian friends. I know you wish you had some E-V13 friends

    Many E-V13 Slavs have the biggest identity crisis, I've seen it time and time again. Loving and hating themselves and Albanians, such an awkward dynamic. As a Slav who thinks Albanians are underclass, it must be gut-wrenching, to cope with that part of you.

  2. #202
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    Dude they're on a cline towards "Ukraine". The other study was on a cline towards "Russia". If you add extra Slavic ancestry to a population you go up that cline.

    And we know for a fact there is extra Slavic ancestry. We've had countless studies on it.
    Yeah but ho do you account for the Helladic_MBA sample?

  3. #203
    Regular Member Dibran's Avatar
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    4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oroku Saki View Post
    Yeah, right, just post as much nonsense as you are used to in your futile attempt to disassociate your Y-DNA from the Slavs.
    Since when? Lol. I'm not a delusional clown like you panty bunched girls. Got this Neo-Illyrian thinking Albanians and Kosovars are different races, these retarded E-V13 Albanians who think Proto-Albanians are Daco-Thracians, and the most special one with an extra chromosome(you) weaving retarded stories of his E-V13 Pecheng ancestor fantasy.

    My recent ancestors were Albanian. I dont give 2 fuchs what 1 direct ancestor in a sea of ancestors was 1-2 thousand years ago. I still have less Slavic autosomal ancestry then these LARPing morons from Northern Kosova and Serbia.

    So the joke is on you budals thinking a fraction of a percent of your entire genome somehow negates 99+% of your DNA and ancestors. Lol.

    I have nothing against Slavs anyway. Just you slimy Serbs.

  4. #204
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oroku Saki View Post
    Thank you but I think I have most of them. There are alot more names in that area than in Southern Illyrian territories, nevertheless there are matches between these areas. Matzinger derives Dazo from PIE *dek, Dasius should be a related form. This verb in Albanian should be marr "take", quite different.
    A legend which he records (Illyr. 1) makes Celtus, Illyrius, and Gala, to have been three brothers, the sons of the Cyclops Polyphemus, and is grounded probably on the intermixture of Celtic tribes (the Boii, the Scordisci, and the Taurisci) among the Illyrians: the lapodes, a tribe on the borders of Istria, are described by Strabo (iv. p.143) as half Celts, half Illyrians. On a rough estimate, it may be said that, in the earliest times, Illyricum was the coast between the Naro (Neretva). and the Drilo (Drin), bounded on the E. by the Triballi. At a later period it comprised all the various tribes from the Celtic Taurisci to the Epirots and Macedonians, and eastward as far as Moesia, including the Veneti, Pannonians, Dalmatians, Dardani, Autariatae, and many others. This is Illyricum in its most extended meaning in the ancient writers till the 2nd century of the Christian era: as, for instance, in Strabo (vii. pp. 313--319), during the reign of Augustus, and in Tacitus (Tac. Hist. 1.2, 9, 76, 2.86; comp. Joseph. B. J. 2.16), in his account of the civil wars which preceded the fall of Jerusalem. When the boundary of Rome reached to the Danube, the “Illyricus Limes” (as it is designated in the “Scriptores Historiae Angustae” ), or “Illyrian frontier,” comprised the following provinces:--Noricum, Pannonia Superior, Pannonia [p. 2.36]Inferior, Moesia Superior, Moesia Inferior, Dacia, and Thrace. This division continued till the time of Constantine, who severed from it Lower Moesia and Thrace, but added to it Macedonia, Thessaly, Achaia, Old and New Epirus, Praevalitana, and Crete. At this period it was one of the four great divisions of the Roman empire under a “Praefectus Praetorio,” and it is in this signification that it is used by the later writers, such as Sextus Rufus, the “Auctor Notitiae Dignitatum Imperil,” Zosimus, Jornandes, and others. At the final division of the Roman empire, the so-called “Illyricum Orientale,” containing the provinces of Macedonia, Thessaly, Epirus, Hellas, New Epirus, Crete,and Praevalitana,was incorporated with the Lower Empire; while “Illyricum Occidentale” was united with Rome, and embraced Noricum, Pannonia, Dalmatia, Savia, and Valeria Ripensis.
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather paternal mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    Says the E-V13 shkja. Go scribble some more Albanian in your notebook. Go make up more stories about having albanian friends. I know you wish you had some E-V13 friends
    I might add some more stuff. They were not friends, but strangers I met along the way. Today I had a long chat with some Finns.

    My best friend should be I1, get down to Earth, nobody cares what your hg is when socializing..

    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    Many E-V13 Slavs have the biggest identity crisis, I've seen it time and time again. Loving and hating themselves and Albanians, such an awkward dynamic. As a Slav who thinks Albanians are underclass, it must be gut-wrenching, to cope with that part of you.
    You might be right, but I have no reason to have any such crisis. I do not dislike Albanians firstly. And secondly I have no relation to Albanians. Thirdly I am a Dakian, probably the best Paleo-Balkan people, who also managed to survive for a long time, until the 5th century AD.

    Proto-Albanians at the time of Illyrian invasion might not have been in best shape. But They played part in Dardanian state, and also unlike Illyrians they participated in the Trojan War. So proto-Albanians might be easily an older historical people than Illyrians - Dardanians of Troy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Since when? Lol. I'm not a delusional clown like you panty bunched girls. Got this Neo-Illyrian thinking Albanians and Kosovars are different races, these retarded E-V13 Albanians who think Proto-Albanians are Daco-Thracians
    I rather think Albanians are Dardanians of Troy, that later assimilated Daco-Mysian and Thracian elements as well as Illyrian elements. Isn't that cool? To have your people fighting in the Trojan War. There are likely proto-Albanians in the movie Troy from 2004, some friends of Eric Bana vs the Brad Pitt?
    Dardanelles are possibly carry the name of Proto-Albanians.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    , and the most special one with an extra chromosome(you) weaving retarded stories of his E-V13 Pecheng ancestor fantasy.
    1. It is no fantasy that my Medieval clade is found in a village certainly founded by Pechenegs in several families that have no tradition of coming to there from somewhere
    2. It is no fantasy that the most distant member of my family from Raska/Sandzak region had a distinct Bulgarian name of Cuman origin.
    3. It is no fantasy that this particular word entered the Bulgarian language late, in early 13th century from Cumans.
    4. It is no fantasy that this particular Cuman name carried by a Bulgarian population in mid 13th century (my mention is from 15th century, but my ancestors have been cut off from Bulgarians for 700-750 years). could only have been carried by a Bulgarian of foreign i.e. Cuman or Berendei (Pecheneg remnants + Cuman like Kipchak people) origins which made up the Bulgarian elite in the second Bulgarian Empire. All dynasties were of such origin, Asen (though some implicate Vlachs too, but Asen and his nickname are Cuman), Terter and Shishman, as well as plenty of other bolyars (also such village nearby on Peshter) including one whose name was same to my family most distant members.
    5. It is no fantasy that several other families genetically close to mine are found in Bulglarian language derived villages on the Peshter highland (Peshter is also Bulgarian).
    6. it is no fantasy that one of them still carries a surname that is old, 18th century, but more likely 16th century, that is very similar to a surname of one Berendei ruling family.
    7. It is no fantasy that according to one translator in a village connected to my clade, a Turkic personal name meaning "descendant of a khan" was recorded.
    8. It is no fantasy that there was a Bulgarian incursion in this particular area where we are from in the mid 13th century. Ragusians called fo Bulgarian help and it was sent.
    9. It is no fantasy that one Bulgarian noble involved in this war had a name of East Slavic origin, so he was a foreigner. Quite possibly Berendei or Brodnik (ancestors of Cossacks with some Turkic connections including Berendei).
    10. It is no fantasy that my clade has highest diversity in historical Dacia, Carpathians. So do various other sister clades. There is only one firmly Balkan clade and it is common in Albanians (Dibrri), but they too are surely originated in Carpathains in Early Iron Age. Even the modern diversity is clear on that point. So Z17107 (taking into account all samples) looks like a clade that clearly originated in Gava culture context. The only question is about my clade, is it at home North of Danube or to the South. With this context, North seems definitely more likely. But even in the case of South these Turkic connections won't go away. Pechenegs controlled most of modern day Serbia in 11th century. The entire valley of Morava and everything East of it..

    11. It is no fantasy that there is another V13 clade in Pechenegs from Hungary, just a different (likely) CTS9320 clade. V13 is proto-Dacian, so Pechenegs could have picked up V13 clades along the way in various ways. They also ruled most of Dacia for some time.

    etc. Fact not fantasies.

    12. it is no fantasy that V13 is a proto-Dacian and proto-Thracian hg, whitout which it is not possible to imagine the ethnogenesis of Daco-Thracians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    My recent ancestors were Albanian. I dont give 2 fuchs what 1 direct ancestor in a sea of ancestors was 1-2 thousand years ago. I still have less Slavic autosomal ancestry then these LARPing morons from Northern Kosova and Serbia.
    So the joke is on you budals thinking a fraction of a percent of your entire genome somehow negates 99+% of your DNA and ancestors. Lol.
    I have nothing against Slavs anyway. Just you slimy Serbs.
    You make good points, auDna is what matters most and all members of one ethnicity cluster with their ethnicity.

    Plus ofc you as an Albanian will know, direct paternal ancestry matters most. That Albanian from poreklo, Rugovac, told me that uncles, and anyone from mothers family does not count as a relative, while paternal cousin from 15 generations does. So in these patriarchal societies this matters more. Like in Montenegro too, why do you think it is Albanians and Montenegrins who test the most?? Obviously for this reason.

    But for people like me, that is irrelevant. I never had any strong or even weak ethnic identification. And objectively I have probably better reasons to hate Serbs than any of you. If anything I have been an anti-ethnicity globalist. And I am still in various ways. But I think my direct paternal ancestry is very cool and better than most of my auDNA and other usual ancestries.

    In most recent times I have declared myself ethnically as Bulgarian (even one official statement which was to my detriment, I was supposed to say I was some Yugoslav) or even Turk. To Turks I usually say that I have Turkic links. After all I do speak Turkish, and I do know more about the Pecheneg language than just about anyone.
    Also Bulgarians are not fools, and I got access to a Bulgarian DNA study.

  6. #206
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    @Oroku Saki
    I’m of the same clade as Dibrri and we (me and my cousin) got autosomal matches with Dibrri members. It seems they came down to Dibrri from my area slightly up more North.

    Why do you think this clade is more Balkan than the other E-V13? Many other clades seem pretty well established in the Balkans from what I’ve seen. They don’t look like recent/Medieval arrivals.

  7. #207
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    E-V13 is mainly a balkan haplogroup of illyrians,greeks,dacians and thracians

  8. #208
    Regular Member mount123's Avatar
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    This thread is a joke.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 View Post
    Samples from Croatia obviously represent a wave of the same populations that settled Albania etc. While they don't cluster like Albanians modern Albanians do have some of their autosomal DNA. And some of them come out like 70% similar to Albanians or many Albanians get the similar autosomal profile + something else which makes them differ at the same time. Also Greece has been settled by many different people. Many Albanians cluster more north than Greeks. While it's possible Illyrian samples from Albania close to the Greek border will cluster like Greeks. It's also possible for other regions such as Dardania. The IA in Bulgaria was very southern.
    Albania was also composed of many Illyrian tribes. And these people lived in the Balkans for thousands of years and were occupied by the Romans for hundreds of years. It seems also delusional to claim that proto-Albanians only lived in Albania. How can you be sure of that ? There were also many Vlachs that were assimilated. There could also be other ancestral populations or tribes that contributed.
    Complete troll. What does croatia have to do with albania, its hundreds of miles away. Once we get a few ancient samples from albania we will see if there is continuity, croatia has nothing to do with albanians. I am pretty sure that south albanians always had little j2b l283, the arbereshe had 2-3% of it

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 View Post
    There is also a total lack of EV-13 among Illyrian samples so far. Southern Albania was settled by various people through different waves. Except for the dialect split there were also Vlach and later Gheg migrations. Your comparison of J2b2 with EV-13 to southern Albania to me makes no sense. Also J2b2 which is a strong Illyrian marker so far does not even seem to peak in Central Albania neither in Tirana nor any close areas rrenjet.com/statistikat/

    J2b2-L283 actually peaks in the Malsi / Kosovo . Of course it could be a bottle neck like anything else.

    Reality is that we don't really know where Proto-Albanians originated for certain , we only know the name comes from a tribe in Albania . And the people that live there today have a strong affinity to EV-13 and some other markers it seems, they cluster more Greek-like but this is not the case for all Albanians, some almost cluster like Sicilians if you go more south and some more North Italian, Tuscan etc.... but there is none so far that clusters West like those samples in Croatia so there obviously was a Eastern shift in the South Balkans at least. We have hundreds of years before the Roman period and the end of Classical Greece. And then we have hundreds of years of the Roman period. Anything could of changed and also changed. Right before the Roman occupation many of the areas in Northern Albania, Montenegro etc were actually occupied by the same or related tribes that became power bases before Roman conquest. This might not of always been the case. Dwelling into some autosomal clustering seems meaningless.


    Of course, there is also the question of Slavic influence.
    J2b l283 does not peak in kosovo, that is where v13 peaks. J2b l283 peaks in north albania. I have already made a claim that a lot of north albanians died during the ottoman wars and those that fled to the mountains determined the frequencies of y dna in north albanians over the next few hundred years until now

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    I've noticed that Albanians from Northern Albania and Montenegro, tend to plot slightly more North-West compared to the "core" of Albanians. Interestingly, these areas have the lowest foreign Y-DNA (I2,R1a, l1, etc) but they have slightly higher Baltic, Atlantic, compared to other Albanians. J2b2 is also highest in this region. On that PCA map a few posts above, I plot just north of IceT and to the right of Fustan, on a North-West cline. My family comes from the Catholic highlands, I don't score any Slavic autosomal but I am 4% Irish, from the ancient Celts
    I wonder if some of that increased Baltic/Atlantic is from when Illyrians and Dardanians used to trade amber & women with the ancient Baltic tribes. Of course, some would have came from medieval marriages with Slavic women, but there was also a trade network in ancient times from the Balkans to Northern Europe, that I've also seen you mention before
    Not sure about that, ive been in north albania and there seems to be more blonde people in places like berat or korce. Wherever there is high amount of i1 and i2 (and to a lesser extent maybe r1b) you will find more light haired/light eyed people
    Last edited by TaktikatEMalet; 28-05-22 at 12:38.

  12. #212
    Regular Member mount123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    @Tak.
    You continue to fail to provide papers to support your somewhat bizarre claims. This is not theapricity.

    In addition, you are continuing to post off-topic material. If you continue to do so, you will join your opponent.

    Hope I'm clear.
    I sincerely understand if the moderators of this forum, you being one of them, are not too enthusiastic to go through these troll accounts' posts, but for the sake of all of the genuine users on this forum, consequences are long overdue for these sock accounts:


    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 View Post
    If that's true then the guy is obviously mentally disturbed. Thought he was some Balkan Slav troll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fustan View Post
    A lot of Kosovo Albanians have become mentally ill from the war. It is a sad state of affairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    All i2a peoppe are direct descendents of WHG and have been in europe longer than anyone else, those are facts wether you like it or not. I2a is not slavic (it predates slavs and everyone else by thousands of years), proto slavs were r1a and picked up i2a somewhere in central europe before moving west

    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Yes indo europeans (asians) did pretty much wipe out the original europeans (i2a and i1) and bring the indo european language.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 View Post
    I say **** Albania. Analbania.
    These are sock puppet accounts using anti-Albanian slurs, making jokes about people and their generational trauma due to the 90s wars in the Balkans and making pseudo scientific statements.

    You and other moderators are notified when people report these posts or quote you. Now it would be greatly appreciated, and I am sure not only by me, but also other users, if these accounts would face consequences for their inappropriate posts. I would also take this as an opportunity to thank you, again, for what you have done in regards to older similar cases.

    Best regards and I sincerely hope that this won't stay unheard again.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    I sincerely understand if the moderators of this forum, you being one of them, are not too enthusiastic to go through these troll accounts' posts, but for the sake of all of the genuine users on this forum, consequences are long overdue for these sock accounts:





    These are sock puppet accounts using anti-Albanian slurs, making jokes about people and their generational trauma due to the 90s wars in the Balkans and making pseudo scientific statements.
    You and other moderators are notified when people report these posts or quote you. Now it would be greatly appreciated, and I am sure not only by me, but also other users, if these accounts would face consequences for their inappropriate posts. I would also take this as an opportunity to thank you, again, for what you have done in regards to older similar cases.
    Best regards and I sincerely hope that this won't stay unheard again.
    Dont mix up my comments with the trolls you dumbass troll, my account is 3 years older than yours. I have only said positive things about albania and our history unlike your v13 hating ass, you need to understand that v13 peaks in kosovo you dumbass. Gjergj Kastrioti and Muzaka are our kings, not the muslim terrorists you worship over there

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Dont mix up my comments with the trolls you dumbass troll, my account is 3 years older than yours. I have only said positive things about albania and our history unlike your v13 hating ass, you need to understand that v13 peaks in kosovo you dumbass. Gjergj Kastrioti and Muzaka are our kings, not the muslim terrorists you worship over there
    In his original post he called Kosovo Albanians muslim terrorists and now has changed it to "you worship muslim terrorists" I am just quoting this so your fellow moderators can see the hate speech he uses in case he changes it again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    In his original post he called Kosovo Albanians muslim terrorists and now has changed it to "you worship muslim terrorists" I am just quoting this so your fellow moderators can see the hate speech he uses in case he changes it again.
    If you can't keep a civil tongue in your head you're going to be banned.

    You've been warned over and over again.

    ENOUGH!
    Last edited by Angela; 18-07-22 at 01:57.

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    In thracians you forgotted to put J2.I am 100% sure that dacians and thracians had not 70-80% E-V13.The rest are kinda accurate.

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    PCA plot of mycenaeans and minoans
    Vahaduo_ Global 25 Views.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    from a 2020 paper on mycenae and crete
    below are the ID

    the 2 x Dalmatian samples are not placed but they appear east of Cataluna marker
    Do you have the y dna lines for those samples?

  19. #219
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Do you have the y dna lines for those samples?

    i am posting only the y haplogroups (many of the samples are females)

    Mycenaean Galatas Apatheia Peloponnese
    I9041-J2a1

    Minoan Lasithi
    I0070-J2a1d
    I0073-J2a1


    Minoan Odigitiria
    I9130-G-p303


    Bronze age bulgarian
    I2163-R1a1a1b2

    Bronze age dalmatian
    I4331-J2b2a
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

    "Know where you came from and where you are going."

    Direct paternal line : mizrahi from damascus

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    i am posting only the y haplogroups (many of the samples are females)

    Mycenaean Galatas Apatheia Peloponnese
    I9041-J2a1

    Minoan Lasithi
    I0070-J2a1d
    I0073-J2a1


    Minoan Odigitiria
    I9130-G-p303


    Bronze age bulgarian
    I2163-R1a1a1b2

    Bronze age dalmatian
    I4331-J2b2a
    Thanks, pretty much as expected

  21. #221
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    By the way illyrians were like 15-35% ANE

  22. #222
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Do you have the y dna lines for those samples?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5565772/

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    He is a fan of the pseudo scientific fantasy that Slavs are autochthonous to the Balkans. I think he is not referring to the obviously contaminated modern Slavic sample but to one basal I2a2 non-IE sample from Slavonia, Potocari and is trying to link it to I2a1b-Slav which does not make sense whatsoever since these are different haplogroups.

    Also, J2b-L283 in antiquity does not have anything to do with the ancestors of Proto-Albanians but everything with Illyrians as we've seen.
    Lmao. And this mentally unstable guy accuses me of being anti-Albanian when you're the ''Kosovan identity'' guy

    I defended you for a minute then you come and attack me ? Man, you really have some nerves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Complete troll. What does croatia have to do with albania, its hundreds of miles away. Once we get a few ancient samples from albania we will see if there is continuity, croatia has nothing to do with albanians. I am pretty sure that south albanians always had little j2b l283, the arbereshe had 2-3% of it
    Certainly nothing to do with being a troll, unless you're also claiming geneticists and even Carleton Coon was a troll. It reperesents the same people that settled Western Balkans during the Iron Age / Bronze Age and formed the Glasinac culture. They originated most likely from the Steppes or somewhere in Central Europe in the Hallstatt. And yes in Y-DNA there is most certainly a continuity. We already have 11 J2b2-L283 samples from Croatia.

    You can even see this by the J2b2-L283 and R1b-L23 that has been found in these areas and the archaeological evidence points to this too.

  25. #225
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283

    Ethnic group
    ...
    Country: Japan-Shizuoka



    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    I've noticed that Albanians from Northern Albania and Montenegro, tend to plot slightly more North-West compared to the "core" of Albanians. Interestingly, these areas have the lowest foreign Y-DNA (I2,R1a, l1, etc) but they have slightly higher Baltic, Atlantic, compared to other Albanians. J2b2 is also highest in this region. On that PCA map a few posts above, I plot just north of IceT and to the right of Fustan, on a North-West cline. My family comes from the Catholic highlands, I don't score any Slavic autosomal but I am 4% Irish, from the ancient Celts

    I wonder if some of that increased Baltic/Atlantic is from when Illyrians and Dardanians used to trade amber & women with the ancient Baltic tribes. Of course, some would have came from medieval marriages with Slavic women, but there was also a trade network in ancient times from the Balkans to Northern Europe, that I've also seen you mention before
    Those are both Kosovars. I haven't really seen any correlation. In fact it is Kosovans and some Montenegro Albos that plot the most North out of all Albanians and Northern Albania and Albania was filled with Slavs too at one point, both Serbs and Bulgarians. And Albanians in Northern Albania / Montenegro intermarried Slavs and some Montenigrin tribes are also of Albanian and Vlach origin. However I have seen one Albanian from Albania that plotted like an Italian and one guy plotted like a Tuscan or South of Tuscans. Maybe some people in Albania proper or the coastal areas could be more West. I don't know.

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