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Thread: Stable population structure in Europe since the Iron Age

  1. #1
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    Stable population structure in Europe since the Iron Age

    16 May 2022

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...973v1.full.pdf


    Ancient DNA research in the past decade has revealed that European population
    structure changed dramatically in the prehistoric period (14,000-3,000 years before
    present, YBP), reflecting the widespread introduction of Neolithic farmer and Bronze
    Age Steppe ancestries. However, little is known about how population structure
    changed in the historical period onward (3,000 YBP - present). To address this, we
    collected whole genomes from 204 individuals from Europe and the Mediterranean,
    many of which are the first historical period genomes from their region (e.g. Armenia,
    France). We found that most regions show remarkable inter-individual heterogeneity.
    Around 8% of historical individuals carry ancestry uncommon in the region where they
    were sampled, some indicating cross-Mediterranean contacts. Despite this high level of
    mobility, overall population structure across western Eurasia is relatively stable through
    the historical period up to the present, mirroring the geographic map. We show that,
    under standard population genetics models with local panmixia, the observed level of
    dispersal would lead to a collapse of population structure. Persistent population
    structure thus suggests a lower effective migration rate than indicated by the observed
    dispersal. We hypothesize that this phenomenon can be explained by extensive
    transient dispersal arising from drastically improved transportation networks and the
    Roman Empire’s mobilization of people for trade, labor, and military. This work highlights
    the utility of ancient DNA in elucidating finer scale human population dynamics in recent History.
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

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    Interesting study led by Stanford geneticists and covering 204 genomes mostly from Iron Age Europe (+ Armenia, Syria, Lebanon and the Maghreb).

    Here is the supplementary material.
    Check this selection of my best forum topics
    My book selection
    ---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
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    Are these brand new samples?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Are these brand new samples?

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    Very undersamples timeframe for the Balkans, will shed some light into it. No samples from Albania/Greece is a bit disappointing.
    “Man cannot live without a permanent trust in something indestructible in himself, and at the same time that indestructible something as well as his trust in it may remain permanently concealed from him.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Very undersamples timeframe for the Balkans, will shed some light into it. No samples from Albania/Greece is a bit disappointing.
    There is a sample on the Albanian/Montenegrin border. Hence the "Southern Balkans". If it's dated to pre-Slavic invasions, it might be a good proxy. We just need the data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    There is a sample on the Albanian/Montenegrin border. Hence the "Southern Balkans". If it's dated to pre-Slavic invasions, it might be a good proxy. We just need the data.
    Six of them it seems.
    From Doclea_Bjelovine.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doclea_(Illyria)

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    Samples from Montenegro
    SAMPLE DATE COVERAGE LATITUDE LONGITUDE LOCALITY COUNTRY
    R3481 266 56,57% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    R3478 795 62,04% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    R9919 963 65,82% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    R9918 1074 56,83% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    R3482 1089 68,12% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    R9920 1102 53,04% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    Courtesy of Ajeje Brazof from the other forum.

    266 CE and 996 CE seem to be male.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Samples from Montenegro
    SAMPLE DATE COVERAGE LATITUDE LONGITUDE LOCALITY COUNTRY
    R3481 266 56,57% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    R3478 795 62,04% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    R9919 963 65,82% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    R9918 1074 56,83% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    R3482 1089 68,12% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    R9920 1102 53,04% 42,466869 19,266164 Doclea_Bjelovine Montenegro
    Courtesy of Ajeje Brazof from the other forum.

    So dates range from 266 to 1102. This might clear some things up.
    Yeah hopefully these are local. I remember some samples from Late Iron Age Croatia that were clearly Iranic (Sarmatian, Central Asian).

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    In the 4th and the 5th centuries, it was taken by the barbarian tribes and went into decline. At the beginning of the 5th century, it was attacked by the Germanic Visigoths. A severe earthquake destroyed it in 518. The South Slavs migrated into the land and proceeded to rebuild the settlement in the 7th century. The historical ruins of the town can be seen today.

    Looks like only the 266 AD one might be useful.

  12. #12
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    All the samples at this point are useful datapoints to get a clearer picture about demographic shifts. Comparing the 266 CE with the 996 CE samples will be very interesting.

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    Will also be interesting to see how the Naissus samples turn out. Given how much that area has been discussed by fellow members.
    I am not entirely sure if the Viminacium samples are the already published ones, or rather new ones?

    Samples from Serbia

    SAMPLE DATE COVERAGE LATITUDE LONGITUDE LOCALITY COUNTRY
    R6769 76 55,44% 43,326684 21,896187 Naissus Serbia
    R9674 134 66,67% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R9673 146 67,16% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R6750 148 64,83% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R6759 150 62,53% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R3931 180 66,31% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R6756 180 53,79% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R9669 220 47,26% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R6693 284 40,96% 45,912477 19,174329 Svilos_Krusevlje Serbia
    R6701 284 62,20% 45,912477 19,174329 Svilos_Krusevlje Serbia
    R6764 330 63,28% 43,326684 21,896187 Naissus Serbia
    R6681 331 63,93% 45,129863 20,069845 Beska Serbia
    R6688 331 50,63% 45,129863 20,069845 Beska Serbia
    R6730 348 65,22% 44,966801 19,609892 Sirmium Serbia
    R3918 1071 46,81% 44,966801 19,609892 Sirmium Serbia
    R9662 1546 46,50% 44,966801 19,609892 Sirmium Serbia
    R3906 1557 46,81% 44,966801 19,609892 Sirmium Serbia
    R6737 1558 60,56% 44,966801 19,609892 Sirmium Serbia


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    Seems quite promising, gotta wait for the coords and Y-dna

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Will also be interesting to see how the Naissus samples turn out. Given how much that area has been discussed by fellow members.
    I am not entirely sure if the Viminacium samples are the already published ones, or rather new ones?

    Samples from Serbia

    SAMPLE DATE COVERAGE LATITUDE LONGITUDE LOCALITY COUNTRY
    R6769 76 55,44% 43,326684 21,896187 Naissus Serbia
    R9674 134 66,67% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R9673 146 67,16% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R6750 148 64,83% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R6759 150 62,53% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R3931 180 66,31% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R6756 180 53,79% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R9669 220 47,26% 44,7167 21,1667 Viminacium Serbia
    R6693 284 40,96% 45,912477 19,174329 Svilos_Krusevlje Serbia
    R6701 284 62,20% 45,912477 19,174329 Svilos_Krusevlje Serbia
    R6764 330 63,28% 43,326684 21,896187 Naissus Serbia
    R6681 331 63,93% 45,129863 20,069845 Beska Serbia
    R6688 331 50,63% 45,129863 20,069845 Beska Serbia
    R6730 348 65,22% 44,966801 19,609892 Sirmium Serbia
    R3918 1071 46,81% 44,966801 19,609892 Sirmium Serbia
    R9662 1546 46,50% 44,966801 19,609892 Sirmium Serbia
    R3906 1557 46,81% 44,966801 19,609892 Sirmium Serbia
    R6737 1558 60,56% 44,966801 19,609892 Sirmium Serbia
    The paper claims to focus on population movements specifically during the Imperial Roman period yet has no samples from Greece, Anatolia and the Southern Balkans. A good portion of the samples from what the authors weirdly call S.E.C Europe are late Antiquity/early medieval Slavic settlers, some of them would already have formed the "South"-Slavic genetic profile e. g. Early Slav with some admixed Non-Slavic ancestry. The authors make the impression they have absolutely no clue about what happened in late antiquity/early medieval in the Balkans when they fallaciously claim genetic continuity in those areas.

    Also, there is zero Iron Age samples from the Western, Central or Eastern Balkans and there are already outliers pointed out. Also cosmopolitan ports during the Imperial Roman era will most likely be multiethnic as we have seen with the Kerkouane samples.

    Not really excited about this one.


    As for the Viminacium samples I am not sure, I actually thought the other ones that I too heard of were just preprint results? Unless they are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    The paper claims to focus on population movements specifically during the Imperial Roman period yet has no samples from Greece, Anatolia and the Southern Balkans. A good portion of the samples from what the authors weirdly call S.E.C Europe are late Antiquity/early medieval Slavic settlers, some of them would already have formed the "South"-Slavic genetic profile e. g. Early Slav with some admixed Non-Slavic ancestry. The authors make the impression they have absolutely no clue about what happened in late antiquity/early medieval in the Balkans when they fallaciously claim genetic continuity in those areas.

    Also, there is zero Iron Age samples from the Western, Central or Eastern Balkans and there are already outliers pointed out. Also cosmopolitan ports during the Imperial Roman era will most likely be multiethnic as we have seen with the Kerkouane samples.

    Not really excited about this one.


    As for the Viminacium samples I am not sure, I actually thought the other ones that I too heard of were just preprint results? Unless they are the same.
    I mean that is one way to look at it. On the other hand having even early Balkan Slav profiles is super important to the history of the Balkans as that is more data points to make a clearer picture. I have seldom followed the Early Slav thread at the other forum and right now we really lack good proxy for early Slavs let alone early Balkan Slav populations. We have one medieval Czech, one Avar Szolad and I think that's about it. I for one welcome any data points we can get.

    But yeah, I am also disappointed at the lack of Greek and Albania/Kosovë samples on this one, for a paper focusing on the Roman Era movements it sure is a detriment. But I am hoping that is because the samples for these regions will be among the Southern Arch papers.

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    Sirmium looks like it was a mixed Illyrian/Celtic settlement.

    A silent witness of this war is a rooftile, dated to 582, with a prayer inscribed on it.
    Christ, our Lord,
    help our city halt the Avars.
    Protect the Roman Empire,
    and he who was written this.
    Amen.
    It did not help: after a siege of three years, the city was captured. Many inhabitants left for Salona. Soon after, the city burned down. Yet, it survived, and there was still a military district called "Sirmion" in the tenth-century Byzantine Empire.
    After Avar conquest the inhabitants left for Dalmatia. Only one sample there is of particular interest, the one dated before the great migrations of Middle Ages.

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    What I find peculiar is the lack of (early) Slavic autosomal/unipaternal profiles on the Hungary / Avar / Hun paper from a while ago. Given the dates of the samples as well as the far closer localization to the supposed origin.

    At least this field of study seems to have picked up steam, and we get half a dozen papers on the region per year so it might clear up in the near future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Sirmium looks like it was a mixed Illyrian/Celtic settlement.



    After Avar conquest the inhabitants left for Dalmatia. Only one sample there is of particular interest, the one dated before the great migrations of Middle Ages.
    I doubt that after christianization there would have been any Celts, Illyrians left there. I think the biggest question regarding the replacement process of Illyrians is wether the Romans next to obviously Slavs also contributed largely to it or only partly. I would not expect minor Illyrian remnant groups to have survived in an area that is the Central Balkans also because Sirmium in itself was already a hybrid settlement. Sirmium would also fall into the category of Illyrian expansion settlements and with expansions there is quite a variety of examples that do not necessarily show a long lasting genetic impact too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    I mean that is one way to look at it. On the other hand having even early Balkan Slav profiles is super important to the history of the Balkans as that is more data points to make a clearer picture. I have seldom followed the Early Slav thread at the other forum and right now we really lack good proxy for early Slavs let alone early Balkan Slav populations. We have one medieval Czech, one Avar Szolad and I think that's about it. I for one welcome any data points we can get.

    But yeah, I am also disappointed at the lack of Greek and Albania/Kosovë samples on this one, for a paper focusing on the Roman Era movements it sure is a detriment. But I am hoping that is because the samples for these regions will be among the Southern Arch papers.
    I remember watching a news report about Iron Age settlements in Kosovo. There is so much to be discovered but unfortunately there is not the funds and archaeogenetics is neither an inland pioneer discipline nor do international institutes really care about collaborating with the local archeologists who are by the way doing the best they can.

    I agree but the problem is that there is a huge gap in the Central/Eastern Balkans and the Carpathian Basin whose pre-Slavic populations would be more than necessary when comparing the clearly very Slavic genetic profile in early Slavic settlers from the Balkans and the Non-Slavic ancestry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excine View Post
    Seems quite promising, gotta wait for the coords and Y-dna
    the raw data bam files should be here soon

    https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB52852


    p.s
    if it would be possible to anlayse the y haplogroup of those samples that would be cool
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

    "Know where you came from and where you are going."

    Direct paternal line : mizrahi from damascus

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafc View Post
    It's a bit odd that the names of the BAMs correspond to the codes of other samples. I wonder if the list above is fully correct ..


    I found no results for most samples if I follow the file (If I follow the names, these are female or not in the list). The ones that have result (between brackets the name of the BAM, which is probably the real sample):


    R3481 (11117): J-Z35779
    R3906 (6730): I-41633
    R3931 (10626): R-BY20283
    R6701 (11713): J-Y15913
    R6730 (10636): I-A11380
    R6750 (3931): E-V13
    R6756 (11746): R-Y7777


    As you see the V13 corresponds to one of the Balkan samples in fact. So I will now download the files again, but based on the name of the BAM.
    Edit: It seems I cannot find back all BAM-file names, and NCBI is no help, it has the same wrong links between sample and BAM.
    Interesting no?

    R3481 (11117): J-Z35779
    266 CE Doclea sample is J2a.

  23. #23
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    Aparently not. There was a mixup in the bam file names.

    Quote Originally Posted by rafc View Post
    Now with the correct files, per Yleaf:


    R3481: J-Z1043 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z1043/
    R3906: I-A11380 https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-A11380/
    R3918: J-CTS6190 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS6190/
    R3931: E-V13 https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V13/
    R6688: R-V164 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-V164/
    R6693: J-Z600 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z600/
    R6701: R-BY157588 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY157588/
    R6730: I-Y41633 https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y41633/
    R6750: file not found
    R6756: file not found
    R6759: file not found
    R6764: file not found
    R9669: J-Z1295 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z1295/
    R9673: R-BY130797 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY130797/
    R9918: J-CTS6190 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS6190/
    lol
    Doclea sample.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z1043/
    Just a honest mixup I hope.

    Inb4 degenerate sock puppets screech "REeEeeE Muh Illyrian continuity just Communist propaganda."

  24. #24
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    R9918 1074 Doclea 1000 CE https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS6190/

    Seems L283 has quite the continuity in Montenegro. Avars and Goths ruining Doclea or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    R3481: J-Z1043 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z1043/
    R9918: J-CTS6190 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS6190/


    200 CE Doclea vs 1000 CE Doclea. Only 2 Montenegro Y samples seem L283.
    So it seems despite the Avars and Goths ruining Doclea L283 has continuity in Montengro from Illyrian times to Middle Ages to today somewhat.
    Now it will be extremely hard for people to argue against Illyrian continuity in SE Balkans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    R9918 1074 Doclea 1000 CE https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS6190/

    Seems L283 has quite the continuity in Montenegro. Avars and Goths ruining Doclea or not.

    can you ask the bam files anlaysis experts in anthrogenica
    to have a look on this dude

    R10667- 171 AD wels austria
    (he is an outlier autosomally he cluster with canry islanders he could be e-m81 or the first e-m81 from roman period europe)

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