David Reich Southern Arc Paper Abstract

I wrote 'central Asia': I thought in fact: mergins between eastern Europe and west-central Asia. ( so: Steppes)

Siberia is located in North and not Central Asia, as many say. Just saying.
 
The Italian population may have grown as well: three census were ordered by Augustus, also assuming role of Roman censor, in order to record the number of Roman citizens throughout the empire. The surviving totals were 4,063,000 in 28 BC, 4,233,000 in 8 BC, and 4,937,000 in AD 14, but it is still debated whether these counted all citizens, all adult male citizens, or citizens sui iuris.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Italy#cite_note-20

EDIT: I doubt it had such a big increase now that I think about it. Probably an error based on the census because citizen status did not include slaves.

"Rome differed from Greek city-states in allowing freed slaves to become citizens
. After manumission, a male slave who had belonged to a Roman citizen enjoyed not only passive freedom from ownership, but active political freedom (libertas), including the right to vote."





 
The Italian population may have grown as well: three census were ordered by Augustus, also assuming role of Roman censor, in order to record the number of Roman citizens throughout the empire. The surviving totals were 4,063,000 in 28 BC, 4,233,000 in 8 BC, and 4,937,000 in AD 14, but it is still debated whether these counted all citizens, all adult male citizens, or citizens sui iuris.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Italy#cite_note-20

EDIT: I doubt it had such a big increase now that I think about it. Probably an error based on the census because citizen status does not include slaves.

"Rome differed from Greek city-states in allowing freed slaves to become citizens
. After manumission, a male slave who had belonged to a Roman citizen enjoyed not only passive freedom from ownership, but active political freedom (libertas), including the right to vote."







Italian population in 1410 was 13.5 million

Italian Population in 1860 when Italy formed ................without Lombardy, Veneto, Trentino or Friuli was 22 million ...............by 1870 when these joined except Trentino they bought in nearly 9 million extra people
 
Not convincing. There is no universal model of intermatings along History. Every kind of model can be found. If R1b had flirted with south Caucasus, it was after an arrival from Central Asia and rather through southern Caspian, I think(not sure, it's true).

It could be. The only issue is we have not found the origin of M269 yet. It just "appears" in Yamnaya. But given its dating of >13,000 years it should be found in Khvalynsk if they were indeed the ancestors of Yamnaya.

The great thing about the now-defunct Anatolian theory of PIE was that it explained the "early branching" of the Anatolian language. The current R1b steppe doesn't. Reich is clearly trying to explain this.
 
My impression of Davidski is that at times he comes off as rude but he's very knowledgeable in genetics for better or worse


He may come across as knowledgeable by hobbyists who are themselves not data scientists or geneticists but the fact that he relies on PCA based methods such G25 for genetic distances or conclusions when there are many papers out there on why not to rely on PCAs for conclusions on genetic mixing histories or geneflows, or can’t himself process raw DNA sequence data from ENA tells me that he simply is a good amateur but isn’t a true data scientist or geneticist like Patterson of Broad or Dilawer of Eurasian DNA or even Dienekes.

I remember the arguments he had with Dienekes which really showed how ignorant he was about some of the genetics programs. The fact that he butts heads with David Reich without having reliable evidence to back his position also doesn’t help his case
 
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The fact is that different Indo-European peoples lived in Iran, for example as I said ancient Illuri people in Luristan were Illyrian, Gaeli people in Gilan were Celtic but Kurds in Kurdistan were Indo-Iranian.

iranhaplogroups_4dbh.jpg
 
What's the deal with pseudo-scientific couch potato input like the one above? It amazes me that some people really don't know boundaries.
 
He may come across as knowledgeable by hobbyists who are themselves not data scientists or geneticists but the fact that he relies on PCA based methods such G25 for genetic distances or conclusions when there are many papers out there on why not to rely on PCAs for conclusions on genetic mixing histories or geneflows, or can’t himself process raw DNA sequence data from ENA tells me that he simply is a good amateur but isn’t a true data scientist or geneticist like Patterson of Broad or Dilawer of Eurasian DNA or even Dienekes.
I remember the arguments he had with Dienekes which really showed how ignorant he was about some of the genetics programs. The fact that he butts heads with David Reich without having reliable evidence to back his position also doesn’t help his case


you nail it
i think dilawer is very good ( i know some people dont like his calculators in geneplazza
but i do )
he was also banned from anthrogenica
if i am not wrong :LOL:
 
There has been migration from the Steppe to the Southern Arc as early as 4206-3925 BC (Areni_C samples from Armenia, not far from the border with Iran 39°43′53″N 45°12′13″E).

Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 0.0148% / 0.01476239 | R4P
29.1 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
29.0 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
25.1 RUS_Progress_En:pG2001___BC_4900___Coverage_75.05%
16.8 HUN_ALPc_Szakalhat_MN:I2743___BC_5100___Coverage_21.55%

Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 0.0206% / 0.02062109 | R4P
53.8 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
20.3 HRV_Sopot_MN:I3498___BC_5731___Coverage_42.90%
14.5 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
11.4 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%

Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 0.0193% / 0.01926070 | R5P
31.7 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323___BC_5960___Coverage_39.79%
30.6 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
14.5 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
13.9 HUN_Starcevo_N:I0174___BC_5608___Coverage_19.59%
9.3 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
 
There has been migration from the Steppe to the Southern Arc as early as 4206-3925 BC (Areni_C samples from Armenia, not far from the border with Iran 39°43′53″N 45°12′13″E).

Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 0.0148% / 0.01476239 | R4P
29.1 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
29.0 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
25.1 RUS_Progress_En:pG2001___BC_4900___Coverage_75.05%
16.8 HUN_ALPc_Szakalhat_MN:I2743___BC_5100___Coverage_21.55%

Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 0.0206% / 0.02062109 | R4P
53.8 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
20.3 HRV_Sopot_MN:I3498___BC_5731___Coverage_42.90%
14.5 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
11.4 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%

Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 0.0193% / 0.01926070 | R5P
31.7 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323___BC_5960___Coverage_39.79%
30.6 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
14.5 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
13.9 HUN_Starcevo_N:I0174___BC_5608___Coverage_19.59%
9.3 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%


can you run rise423 bronze age armenian from Nerqin Getashen site did he carry also some steppe ?
 
Yamnaya can be modeled entirely with Steppe + EEF.

Target: Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Distance: 0.0290% / 0.02899665 | R3P
70.5 RUS_Progress_En:pG2004___BC_4138___Coverage_73.94%
17.3 RUS_Khvalynsk_En:I0433___BC_4611___Coverage_36.95%
12.2 UKR_Trypillia:I2110___BC_3747___Coverage_14.11%

The only thing is that going back far enough you do find Iran_N in these populations (don't know if the same applies to qpAdm though). Perhaps this component was already long established in the North Caucasus, there may have been migrations millennia earlier that increased Iran_N in the region, but these are not to be associated with Proto-Indo-European.

Target: Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Distance: 0.0594% / 0.05936254
34.3 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
27.8 RUS_Sidelkino_HG:Sidelkino___BC_9371___Coverage_84.07%
25.0 UKR_Meso:I1763___BC_8131___Coverage_70.73%
5.9 RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3___BC_16086___Coverage_23.08%
3.5 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%
3.5 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZMOJ_BON014___BC_7950___Coverage_45.31%

Target: RUS_Progress_En
Distance: 0.0495% / 0.04953731
38.1 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
20.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3___BC_16086___Coverage_23.08%
19.2 UKR_Meso:I1763___BC_8131___Coverage_70.73%
13.4 RUS_Veretye_Meso:pES001___BC_10761___Coverage_97.50%
8.9 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%

I couldn't tell when Iran_N arrived, but it is present in samples dated almost around 5000 BC.

SampleIRAN_N %
RUS_Khvalynsk_En:I0434___BC_4975___Coverage_5.32%4,1
RUS_Progress_En:pG2001___BC_4900___Coverage_75.05%11,3
RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En:I1722___BC_4458___Coverage_14.76%5
RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En:I2055___BC_4558___Coverage_15.17%3,3
RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En:I2056___BC_4516___Coverage_59.59%5,1
RUS_Vonyuchka_En:VJ1001___BC_4280___Coverage_70.20%16,6
RUS_Progress_En:pG2004___BC_4138___Coverage_73.94%6,7
 
Yamnaya can be modeled entirely with Steppe + EEF.

Target: Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Distance: 0.0290% / 0.02899665 | R3P
70.5 RUS_Progress_En:pG2004___BC_4138___Coverage_73.94%
17.3 RUS_Khvalynsk_En:I0433___BC_4611___Coverage_36.95%
12.2 UKR_Trypillia:I2110___BC_3747___Coverage_14.11%

The only thing is that going back far enough you do find Iran_N in these populations (don't know if the same applies to qpAdm though). Perhaps this component was already long established in the North Caucasus, there may have been migrations millennia earlier that increased Iran_N in the region, but these are not to be associated with Proto-Indo-European.

Target: Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Distance: 0.0594% / 0.05936254
34.3 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
27.8 RUS_Sidelkino_HG:Sidelkino___BC_9371___Coverage_84.07%
25.0 UKR_Meso:I1763___BC_8131___Coverage_70.73%
5.9 RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3___BC_16086___Coverage_23.08%
3.5 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%
3.5 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZMOJ_BON014___BC_7950___Coverage_45.31%

Target: RUS_Progress_En
Distance: 0.0495% / 0.04953731
38.1 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
20.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3___BC_16086___Coverage_23.08%
19.2 UKR_Meso:I1763___BC_8131___Coverage_70.73%
13.4 RUS_Veretye_Meso:pES001___BC_10761___Coverage_97.50%
8.9 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%

I couldn't tell when Iran_N arrived, but it is present in samples dated almost around 5000 BC.

SampleIRAN_N %
RUS_Khvalynsk_En:I0434___BC_4975___Coverage_5.32%4,1
RUS_Progress_En:pG2001___BC_4900___Coverage_75.05%11,3
RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En:I1722___BC_4458___Coverage_14.76%5
RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En:I2055___BC_4558___Coverage_15.17%3,3
RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En:I2056___BC_4516___Coverage_59.59%5,1
RUS_Vonyuchka_En:VJ1001___BC_4280___Coverage_70.20%16,6
RUS_Progress_En:pG2004___BC_4138___Coverage_73.94%6,7

Says you. Let's wait to see what Reich, using REAL statistical methods, has to say about it.
 
can you run rise423 bronze age armenian from Nerqin Getashen site did he carry also some steppe ?

Some kind of ancestry from the north is present in almost all samples from Armenia available so far, I do not expect to find it in those much older than 4000 BC though.

Target: ARM_Areni_C:I1634___BC_4206___Coverage_64.04%
Distance: 0.0290% / 0.02904250 | R4P
48.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323___BC_5960___Coverage_39.79%
23.2 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN175___BC_5142___Coverage_27.91%
14.4 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
13.8 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%

Target: ARM_Areni_C:I1631___BC_4149___Coverage_70.90%
Distance: 0.0320% / 0.03203106 | R4P
53.2 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
20.0 HUN_Koros_N_contam:I2373___BC_5750___Coverage_26.38%
14.9 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
11.9 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%

Target: ARM_Areni_C:I1632___BC_4126___Coverage_69.22%
Distance: 0.0215% / 0.02147978 | R4P
60.0 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
17.2 HUN_Vinca_MN:I1887___BC_5200___Coverage_32.48%
12.0 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
10.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%

Target: ARM_Areni_C:I1407___BC_3925___Coverage_67.46%
Distance: 0.0260% / 0.02602324 | R4P
39.4 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323___BC_5960___Coverage_39.79%
35.3 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4241___BC_5954___Coverage_73.53%
14.5 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
10.8 DEU_LBK_HBS:I0048___BC_5107___Coverage_41.84%

Target: Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps:ARM001___BC_3467___Coverage_52.03%
Distance: 0.0294% / 0.02943720 | R4P
41.7 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323___BC_5960___Coverage_39.79%
35.9 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
12.2 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
10.2 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN175___BC_5142___Coverage_27.91%

Target: Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps:ARM002-003___BC_3213___Coverage_59.55%
Distance: 0.0242% / 0.02423161 | R4P
54.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4349___BC_5797___Coverage_77.91%
28.7 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
14.8 TUR_Barcin_N:I1583___BC_6323___Coverage_99.28%
1.9 RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3___BC_16086___Coverage_23.08%

Target: Kura-Araxes_ARM_Talin:I1658___BC_3212___Coverage_70.76%
Distance: 0.0276% / 0.02756372 | R4P
41.2 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:pOT002___BC_5428___Coverage_59.20%
24.4 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
19.8 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN164___BC_5160___Coverage_31.25%
14.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%

Target: Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan:I1635___BC_2526___Coverage_69.61%
Distance: 0.0287% / 0.02869724 | R4P
37.3 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
34.5 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4241___BC_5954___Coverage_73.53%
24.2 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
4.0 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%

Target: Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan:I1633___BC_2515___Coverage_71.95%
Distance: 0.0302% / 0.03022877 | R4P
33.8 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
31.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
19.1 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN164___BC_5160___Coverage_31.25%
15.5 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%

Target: ARM_MBA:I1656___BC_1447___Coverage_72.08%
Distance: 0.0250% / 0.02504080 | R4P
47.9 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4349___BC_5797___Coverage_77.91%
24.5 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
14.7 RUS_Sidelkino_HG:Sidelkino___BC_9371___Coverage_84.07%
12.9 HRV_MN:I26738___BC_5175___Coverage_56.04%

Target: ARM_Lchashen_MBA : DA35___BC_1309___Coverage_67.26%
Distance: 0.0248% / 0.02482043 | R4P
53.5 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4241___BC_5954___Coverage_73.53%
18.4 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
14.7 RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3___BC_16086___Coverage_23.08%
13.4 TUR_Barcin_N:I1096___BC_6350___Coverage_64.66%

Target: ARM_MBA:RISE423___BC_1301___Coverage_32.89%
Distance: 0.0367% / 0.03668315 | R4P
57.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
17.3 UKR_Meso:I1763___BC_8131___Coverage_70.73%
17.2 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
7.9 GRC_Peloponnese_N:I2937___BC_5410___Coverage_64.88%

Target: ARM_Lchashen_MBA : DA31___BC_1250___Coverage_20.91%
Distance: 0.0251% / 0.02513586 | R4P
44.4 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323___BC_5960___Coverage_39.79%
24.5 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
16.7 HUN_Vinca_MN:I1895___BC_5245___Coverage_58.50%
14.4 RUS_Tyumen_HG:I1960___BC_6166___Coverage_70.00%

Target: ARM_LBA:RISE412___BC_1068___Coverage_10.13%
Distance: 0.0408% / 0.04081971 | R4P
37.4 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
30.8 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
17.9 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
13.9 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%

Target: ARM_LBA:RISE407___BC_985___Coverage_15.81%
Distance: 0.0295% / 0.02945488 | R4P
33.9 TUR_Barcin_N:I1101___BC_6350___Coverage_56.53%
31.0 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
18.9 RUS_Karelia_HG:UzOO77___BC_5250___Coverage_46.32%
16.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%

Target: ARM_LBA:RISE397___BC_958___Coverage_20.86%
Distance: 0.0388% / 0.03884907 | R4P
39.3 CZE_N_oWHG:I7951___BC_5250___Coverage_36.25%
25.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%
21.8 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
13.1 RUS_Samara_HG:I0124___BC_5594___Coverage_40.95%
 
you nail it
i think dilawer is very good ( i know some people dont like his calculators in geneplazza
but i do )
he was also banned from anthrogenica
if i am not wrong :LOL:
I heard that they were upset when he either proved they didn’t know how to use formal statistical methods or proved their amateur calculators were wrong. So they quickly erased all the proof and banned him. They have no tolerance for anyone that can show they are wrong
 
I heard that they were upset when he either proved they didn’t know how to use formal statistical methods or proved their amateur calculators were wrong. So they quickly erased all the proof and banned him. They have no tolerance for anyone that can show they are wrong

I just found this page from Anthrogenica’s co-founder DMXX Vaedya blog. Apparently, they thought highly of Dilawer and used him to prove their point. But when he corrected or disagreed with them they show their true colors and ban him. How ironic and pathetic !
http://vaedhya.blogspot.com/search?q=Sintashta

Disclaimer
This is largely a re-post, albeit with additional explanations, from a recent ADMIXTURE autosomal run (Eurasia K20) performed at Anthrogenica by the user Kurd. Full technical information and the original files may be found in his original thread. Full acknowledgement is provided to him for the great work. Unless stated otherwise, assume the contents refer to the Eurasia K20 run. This entry may be updated at any time to include further investigations based on future runs. Finally, this entry assumes the mainstream Pontic-Caspian theory for the genesis of the Indo-Europeans to be fully accurate.
Preamble
This entry/repost contains a "quick and dirty" method for a preliminary attempt at deriving their Sintashta admixture levels in West, Central and South Asians based on the Eurasia K20 scores. Given the different admixture histories elsewhere in Eurasia, this probably won't be very informative for users with ancestral backgrounds outside the lands between Kurdistan and the Indo-Gangetic plains. This is especially the case with modern Europeans, who share the same core components with Sintashta, while also deriving their own Indo-European ancestries from different archaeological cultures and time periods.
Establishing the Context
According to this Eurasia K20 run, Sintashta are approximately 62% Yamnaya, 22% EEF, 10% European and 3% SHG_WHG. Sintashta, at present, appear to be the best proxy for the Indo-Iranians that arrived in West and South Asia. The above four components define the majority (94%) of Sintashta's autosomal profile here.
As discussed elsewhere in Anthrogenica (kudos to user Sein for pointing this out), Sintashta should be considered better surrogates for the Andronovo-related waves which reached West, Central and South Asia than the actual Andronovo samples derived from Allentoft et al. 2015. This is due to the Andronovo samples being derived from the extreme northeast of the archaeological horizon (above the Altai, near Afanasievo). Their position opens up the possibility for extraneous admixture from other steppe groups (including early speakers of Tocharian through Afanasievo?).
The user Kurd has previously demonstrated that recent steppe-related admixture may be segregated from other components. While undertaking this exercise, it also looks like Kurd has done an excellent job addressing the "teal" component that defined up to half of Samara Yamnaya and a big chunk of Sintashta. Kurd's K20 is, in my view, the most effective attempt thus far at separating the complicated autosomal overlapping in West and Central Eurasia.
 
Some kind of ancestry from the north is present in almost all samples from Armenia available so far, I do not expect to find it in those much older than 4000 BC though.

Target: ARM_Areni_C:I1634___BC_4206___Coverage_64.04%
Distance: 0.0290% / 0.02904250 | R4P
48.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323___BC_5960___Coverage_39.79%
23.2 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN175___BC_5142___Coverage_27.91%
14.4 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
13.8 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%

Target: ARM_Areni_C:I1631___BC_4149___Coverage_70.90%
Distance: 0.0320% / 0.03203106 | R4P
53.2 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
20.0 HUN_Koros_N_contam:I2373___BC_5750___Coverage_26.38%
14.9 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
11.9 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%

Target: ARM_Areni_C:I1632___BC_4126___Coverage_69.22%
Distance: 0.0215% / 0.02147978 | R4P
60.0 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
17.2 HUN_Vinca_MN:I1887___BC_5200___Coverage_32.48%
12.0 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
10.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%

Target: ARM_Areni_C:I1407___BC_3925___Coverage_67.46%
Distance: 0.0260% / 0.02602324 | R4P
39.4 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323___BC_5960___Coverage_39.79%
35.3 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4241___BC_5954___Coverage_73.53%
14.5 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
10.8 DEU_LBK_HBS:I0048___BC_5107___Coverage_41.84%

Target: Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps:ARM001___BC_3467___Coverage_52.03%
Distance: 0.0294% / 0.02943720 | R4P
41.7 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323___BC_5960___Coverage_39.79%
35.9 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
12.2 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
10.2 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN175___BC_5142___Coverage_27.91%

Target: Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps:ARM002-003___BC_3213___Coverage_59.55%
Distance: 0.0242% / 0.02423161 | R4P
54.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4349___BC_5797___Coverage_77.91%
28.7 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
14.8 TUR_Barcin_N:I1583___BC_6323___Coverage_99.28%
1.9 RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3___BC_16086___Coverage_23.08%

Target: Kura-Araxes_ARM_Talin:I1658___BC_3212___Coverage_70.76%
Distance: 0.0276% / 0.02756372 | R4P
41.2 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:pOT002___BC_5428___Coverage_59.20%
24.4 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
19.8 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN164___BC_5160___Coverage_31.25%
14.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%

Target: Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan:I1635___BC_2526___Coverage_69.61%
Distance: 0.0287% / 0.02869724 | R4P
37.3 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
34.5 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4241___BC_5954___Coverage_73.53%
24.2 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
4.0 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%

Target: Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan:I1633___BC_2515___Coverage_71.95%
Distance: 0.0302% / 0.03022877 | R4P
33.8 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
31.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
19.1 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN164___BC_5160___Coverage_31.25%
15.5 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%

Target: ARM_MBA:I1656___BC_1447___Coverage_72.08%
Distance: 0.0250% / 0.02504080 | R4P
47.9 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4349___BC_5797___Coverage_77.91%
24.5 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
14.7 RUS_Sidelkino_HG:Sidelkino___BC_9371___Coverage_84.07%
12.9 HRV_MN:I26738___BC_5175___Coverage_56.04%

Target: ARM_Lchashen_MBA : DA35___BC_1309___Coverage_67.26%
Distance: 0.0248% / 0.02482043 | R4P
53.5 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4241___BC_5954___Coverage_73.53%
18.4 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
14.7 RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3___BC_16086___Coverage_23.08%
13.4 TUR_Barcin_N:I1096___BC_6350___Coverage_64.66%

Target: ARM_MBA:RISE423___BC_1301___Coverage_32.89%
Distance: 0.0367% / 0.03668315 | R4P
57.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
17.3 UKR_Meso:I1763___BC_8131___Coverage_70.73%
17.2 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
7.9 GRC_Peloponnese_N:I2937___BC_5410___Coverage_64.88%

Target: ARM_Lchashen_MBA : DA31___BC_1250___Coverage_20.91%
Distance: 0.0251% / 0.02513586 | R4P
44.4 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323___BC_5960___Coverage_39.79%
24.5 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
16.7 HUN_Vinca_MN:I1895___BC_5245___Coverage_58.50%
14.4 RUS_Tyumen_HG:I1960___BC_6166___Coverage_70.00%

Target: ARM_LBA:RISE412___BC_1068___Coverage_10.13%
Distance: 0.0408% / 0.04081971 | R4P
37.4 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
30.8 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
17.9 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
13.9 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%

Target: ARM_LBA:RISE407___BC_985___Coverage_15.81%
Distance: 0.0295% / 0.02945488 | R4P
33.9 TUR_Barcin_N:I1101___BC_6350___Coverage_56.53%
31.0 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
18.9 RUS_Karelia_HG:UzOO77___BC_5250___Coverage_46.32%
16.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%

Target: ARM_LBA:RISE397___BC_958___Coverage_20.86%
Distance: 0.0388% / 0.03884907 | R4P
39.3 CZE_N_oWHG:I7951___BC_5250___Coverage_36.25%
25.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212___Coverage_79.77%
21.8 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%
13.1 RUS_Samara_HG:I0124___BC_5594___Coverage_40.95%


from future southern arc paper :

A striking signal of steppe migration into the Southern Arc is evident in Armenia and northwest Iran where admixture with Yamnaya patrilineal descendants occurred, coinciding with their 3rd millennium BCE displacement from the steppe itself. This ancestry, pervasive across numerous sites of Armenia of ~2000-600 BCE, was diluted during the ensuing centuries to only a third of its peak value, making no further western inroads from there into any part of Anatolia, including the geographically adjacent Lake Van center of the Iron Age Kingdom of Urartu.
 
There has been migration from the Steppe to the Southern Arc as early as 4206-3925 BC (Areni_C samples from Armenia, not far from the border with Iran 39°43′53″N 45°12′13″E).

Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 0.0148% / 0.01476239 | R4P
29.1 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
29.0 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
25.1 RUS_Progress_En:pG2001___BC_4900___Coverage_75.05%
16.8 HUN_ALPc_Szakalhat_MN:I2743___BC_5100___Coverage_21.55%

Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 0.0206% / 0.02062109 | R4P
53.8 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351___BC_5970___Coverage_64.70%
20.3 HRV_Sopot_MN:I3498___BC_5731___Coverage_42.90%
14.5 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
11.4 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%

Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 0.0193% / 0.01926070 | R5P
31.7 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323___BC_5960___Coverage_39.79%
30.6 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001___BC_5688___Coverage_73.36%
14.5 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061___BC_6500___Coverage_87.22%
13.9 HUN_Starcevo_N:I0174___BC_5608___Coverage_19.59%
9.3 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728___Coverage_99.87%

Was this done in qpAdm?
 
For me, my interest is in the progenitors of Western Civilization, the Ancient Greeks and Romans.


We can see that steppe was indeed a minority component among them.


I feel my sentiments on it are like that of Angela.


I can be modeled about 25% steppe, and I even have an EBA Yamnaya paternal-lineage. I'm proud of all my ancestors, and I think it is neat to have them as part of background. But they are merely a component, and I think it would be weird for me to be obsessed with it in an racist sort of way. It would be awkward for a mostly Native American mestizo to be obsessed with being 25% Iberian in a racist way.

I completely agree that the Greeks and Romans are the founders of Western civilization. The point is that both the Greeks and Romans inherited their languages ​​(for some people language defines culture) from Indo-European-speaking invaders. For Nordicists; this means that the PIE invaders are consequently the founders of Greek and Roman cultures as well.


I find Nordicism pathetic because the invaders mixed with the local population. No culture developed without this mixture. The Indo-European speakers themselves were also constituted by the mixture of EHG and CHG. There is no 'pure population', there is the natural movement of mixing between human populations.


There seems to be a silly intrigue between Northern Europeans and Southern Europeans. Northerners feel like the founders of it all as the Indo-European invaders dominated the farmers and modified their languages ​​and cultures, while Southern Europeans claim that the south was indeed civilized. As a Brazilian who looks at all this from the outside: it seems like a big waste of time. Indo-Europeans and farmers mingled everywhere in Europe, it no longer makes sense to think of any modern European civilization as essentially divided. Genetic and cultural mixing happened everywhere. That is all.


Unfortunately, this type of Nordic racism also happens in Brazil. Brazilians of German or Ukrainian descent feel 'whiter' than Brazilians of Portuguese and Italian descent. Of course, here in Brazil all this is taken much less seriously, but it happens.
 

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