Ancient Balkans Y-DNA lineages

I do have a question: is it possible to perform Identical by descent (IBD) on such the ancient database?
Since it has not been done I suppose something is problematic.... but i don't understand if it lack of resources, or of interest, or just impossible.
 
I do have a question: is it possible to perform Identical by descent (IBD) on such the ancient database?
Since it has not been done I suppose something is problematic.... but i don't understand if it lack of resources, or of interest, or just impossible.

It was done, its possible, but its oftentimes rather unreliable, because of the size of the segments.

I think the long term goal should be to work from generation to generation. Like take for example the Goths and Langobards. You could test from the Polish remains, to those in Ukraine-Carpathian basin, then the ones living in Northern Italy, Northern Italian Early Medieval etc.

So you could reconstruct a chain, because if the coverage is good enough, and you have a rather continuous chain of related populations, then you can do it with much higher accuracy than if comparing e.g. a population from 1.000 BC with one from 2.000 AD. For the latter uniparentals are at the moment, from my point of view, still the way to go, especially if its about patrilinear people.

But there have been efforts to close even wider gaps with sophisticated methods, yet they seem to be not overly reliable I guess.
 
It was done, its possible, but its oftentimes rather unreliable, because of the size of the segments.

I think the long term goal should be to work from generation to generation. Like take for example the Goths and Langobards. You could test from the Polish remains, to those in Ukraine-Carpathian basin, then the ones living in Northern Italy, Northern Italian Early Medieval etc.

So you could reconstruct a chain, because if the coverage is good enough, and you have a rather continuous chain of related populations, then you can do it with much higher accuracy than if comparing e.g. a population from 1.000 BC with one from 2.000 AD. For the latter uniparentals are at the moment, from my point of view, still the way to go, especially if its about patrilinear people.

But there have been efforts to close even wider gaps with sophisticated methods, yet they seem to be not overly reliable I guess.

Ostrogoth history in North Italy lasted less than 100 years.....their capital was Ravenna and they where conquered by the invading Longobards from East Austria who made Pavia their capital

Before the ostrogoths went to Italy...they lived on the northern side of the black sea fro over 300 years ........originally coming there circa 150BC from Vistula delta Poland area, Gotland and Scania Sweden
 
The questions I have are

- Where is the Bronze Age R1a-Z283 from?
- Where are the Mesolithic J2a-L26 from?
- Where is the Mesolithic I1 from?

Also what is their autosomal profile?

And more information about R1b of 'unknown sublaces'.
 
The questions I have are

- Where is the Bronze Age R1a-Z283 from?
- Where are the Mesolithic J2a-L26 from?
- Where is the Mesolithic I1 from?

Also what is their autosomal profile?

And more information about R1b of 'unknown sublaces'.

for R1b maybe under R-V88 ?
 
I’ve managed to trace my G line back to 16th c. All indications they moved South in Greece from the NW (Epirus) much earlier as sheepherders living in remote mountainous regions. I’m mildly convinced that remnants of G in the Balkans could be Neolithic survivors.
 
I’ve managed to trace my G line back to 16th c. All indications they moved South in Greece from the NW (Epirus) much earlier as sheepherders living in remote mountainous regions. I’m mildly convinced that remnants of G in the Balkans could be Neolithic survivors.

M406? Or some other clade? Have family with this clade from South Albania. But the clade is so old, most clades are for G in general, that it is very hard to make sense of it in a historical perspective. Even scientific papers label them at 6k, 10k< nomenclatures. While some could have been CHG/IEorCaucasus settlers post Neolithic, the rest would have been associated with EEF ultimately from Anatolia.
 
Trzciniec

The questions I have are

- Where is the Bronze Age R1a-Z283 from?
- Where are the Mesolithic J2a-L26 from?
- Where is the Mesolithic I1 from?

Also what is their autosomal profile?

And more information about R1b of 'unknown sublaces'.

The Bronze Age R-Z283 likely came from Mierzanowice-Kostany into the formation of F?zesabony. And it will have been present in Trzciniec-Komarow into Lusatians, especially Eastern Lusatian periphery I guess.
 
Serbs are not 50-60% slavic.They are like 25-35%
 
M406? Or some other clade? Have family with this clade from South Albania. But the clade is so old, most clades are for G in general, that it is very hard to make sense of it in a historical perspective. Even scientific papers label them at 6k, 10k< nomenclatures. While some could have been CHG/IEorCaucasus settlers post Neolithic, the rest would have been associated with EEF ultimately from Anatolia.

g2a2a PF 3237 subclade. Of course that’s through Morley predictor.
 
g2a2a PF 3237 subclade. Of course that’s through Morley predictor.

My maternal Y: https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-M406/
As you can see from the flags all of Caucasus post Eneolithic migration, IE, or EEF could be candidates. The TMRCAs are 9k+... but presence of flags from Armenia, Georgia, Turkey, and Greece, as well as Middle Eastern Emirates, or even IE nations such as Scotts etc really does not narrow anything down as to which hypothesis fits best. I am inclined to think this branch is EEF, but have no strong arguments for it. Certainly branches of G or I would have been Pelasgian, if such denomination even existed. Not sure if this fits.
 
Serbs are not 50-60% slavic.They are like 25-35%

Yes they are 50-60% North Slavic, if not more because Slavs were likely mixed before they made permanent settlements. 25% is a low percentage even if you model them with modern Albanians let alone Roman era sample.
 
Looks like my subclade G2a2a (PF3237)) has been found in Barcin and Bellbeaker culture and I get really high ENF autosomal results (like 60% vs. 32% IE).
 
for R1b maybe under R-V88 ?

They already have a category in the chart for R-V88, so nope. I think mostly will be M269+ (xL23) since that's a fairly common subclade in the Balkans today and closely related to R-L23+ (xL51) Yamnaya groups since they were found in the same geography in our archaeological records.
 
That's quite a disappointment.

Indeed
What can we do
We will just have to wait patiently
And hope it will get published earlier

P.s
Hope to see the 3 southern arc papers
erikl86 talked about soon
 
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This pre-print ( before the future addition balkan samples)

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.458211v1.full

Yesterday i asked Carles Lalueza-Fox in email:

when the final paper will be published ?

he was kind enough to answer(y)


his answere:
lets hope for next year
Thanks for sharing! Quite disappointing indeed. Let's just hope that other upcoming papers we've been anticipating won't follow the same delay or have a late publication date.
 

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