Southern Italian Ethnogenesis (My theory)

bigsnake49 said:
I totally agree that we should wait for IA and classical age Greek samples but we do not have any historical or archaeological info that there was a large and influential admixture event. Now I can theorize that internal migration from rural settlements that might have been Pelasgian into urban areas that were Greek might have changed the admix. I guess we will have to wait.
Click to expand...
I don't think there was a large admixture event in the Iron Age neither, but maybe just a progressive and subtle interaction between the Aegean area (mycenean like) with both the Anatolian coast and the northern Greece region, like Macedonia. Nothing massive, anyway.
 
Francesco said:
The Aegean contribution southern Italy can be connected to at least two great episodes of colonization.

The first one can be traced back since the early bronze age and can be linked to Minoans first and Myceneans then. It's probably in this landscape that the italic migration gets in by the end of the bronze age/early iron age.

Then, we have a second big wave, due to the Iron Age Greek colonization of Magna Grecia, interacting with the italic world. Unfortunately, we still lack samples for this crucial Era.

There might have been a more anatolian admixed stream of population from the Aegean during the imperial era, but this wasn't limited to southern Italy only and I doubt it left a genetic impect as big as the previous streams of colonization.
Click to expand...


I wonder if South Italians, prior to the Greek colonization, had knowledge of sharing common ancestry with Aegean/Minoan people in Ancient times. That knowledge may have been lost as the Aegeans were Hellenized by the first Greek waves.
 
Then, we have a second big wave, due to the Iron Age Greek colonization of Magna Grecia, interacting with the italic world. Unfortunately, we still lack samples for this crucial Era.
Click to expand...

This anthropological study (Rathemann et al. 2019) made use of dental phenotypic evidence to identify the majority of the test individuals from the ancient Greek colonization era as Italian (82%) and 18% as Greek on average.

Overall, classification identified the majority of the test individuals as Italian (82%) and only a few as Greek (18%). Classified individuals had relatively high posterior probabilities for group membership (on average: 0.83). Table 4 displays the classification results for test individuals in post-colonial southern Italy from different archaeological sites (indigenous villages and Greek colonies). Individuals classified as Greek were scattered across the study region without any significant differences across sites (Fisher's exact test, p = 1.000).

Table 4. Naïve Bayes ancestry classification results for test individuals in post-colonial southern Italy

Archaeological site Italians Greeks
Passo di Giacobbe 80.0% (n = 12) 20.0% (n = 3)
Metapontion 80.0% (n = 16) 20.0% (n = 4)
Siris 88.9% (n = 8) 11.1% (n = 1)
Taras 100.0% (n = 1) 0.0% (n = 0)
Total study region 82.2% (n = 37) 17.8% (n = 8)

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ajpa.23937
Click to expand...
 
Francesco said:
The Aegean contribution southern Italy can be connected to at least two great episodes of colonization.
The first one can be traced back since the early bronze age and can be linked to Minoans first and Myceneans then. It's probably in this landscape that the italic migration gets in by the end of the bronze age/early iron age.
Then, we have a second big wave, due to the Iron Age Greek colonization of Magna Grecia, interacting with the italic world. Unfortunately, we still lack samples for this crucial Era.
There might have been a more anatolian admixed stream of population from the Aegean during the imperial era, but this wasn't limited to southern Italy only and I doubt it left a genetic impect as big as the previous streams of colonization.
Click to expand...

This pretty much sums it up imo.
 
Francesco said:
The Aegean contribution southern Italy can be connected to at least two great episodes of colonization.
The first one can be traced back since the early bronze age and can be linked to Minoans first and Myceneans then. It's probably in this landscape that the italic migration gets in by the end of the bronze age/early iron age.
Then, we have a second big wave, due to the Iron Age Greek colonization of Magna Grecia, interacting with the italic world. Unfortunately, we still lack samples for this crucial Era.
There might have been a more anatolian admixed stream of population from the Aegean during the imperial era, but this wasn't limited to southern Italy only and I doubt it left a genetic impect as big as the previous streams of colonization.
Click to expand...

was the minoan/mycenean contribution only one ...............when the myceneans took over ( conquered/absorbed ) the minoans or was it purely only minoan ?
 
Given that Neolithic farmers of Greece, who are highly similar to Minoans; spread to southern Italy before other places and more frequently; that modern south Italians show an affinity to Neolithic Greece; I would say with almost 100% confidence that the substratum of south Italy was minoan-like.
 
Jovialis said:
Given that Neolithic farmers of Greece, who are highly similar to Minoans; spread to southern Italy before other places and more frequently; that modern south Italians show an affinity to Neolithic Greece; I would say with almost 100% confidence that the substratum of south Italy was minoan-like.
Click to expand...

I though so.............as Salento Peninsula has a lot of minoan like ............
 
Read and summarize this link: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/42655-Southern-Italian-Ethnogenesis-(My-theory)

ChatGPT

The linked webpage is a discussion thread on Eupedia, where a user named Jovialis shares their theory on the ethnogenesis of Southern Italians. Here's a summary of the points made:


Jovialis posits that, similar to Ancient Greeks, Southern Italians can be modeled as a Minoan/Steppe admixture. This theory is based on recent studies that show a strong affinity to Ancient Greeks in Southern Italians. Some of these studies even use Minoans as a reference population to model certain regions in Italy.


Critics argue that this model neglects to incorporate the influence of the Eastern Mediterranean that arrived in later periods. However, Jovialis contends that this influence is present but may not be as significant as some believe. They suggest that the presence of the Anatolia_BA component in South Italy could be attributed to admixture with Aegean Islanders in Greek Colonies.


Jovialis also notes that the degree of the Anatolia_BA component varies between individual samples from different towns in Southern Italy. This variation could be due to geographic isolation and different historical events affecting each town.


Other admixture events from Moors, Saracens, Normans, and others are also considered to have had some impact on the genetic makeup of Southern Italy. For example, the higher Iberomarusian component found in some modern samples could be attributed to Moorish influence, although this is also found in ancient Italians.


Please note that this summary is based on the initial post in the discussion thread and may not capture the full depth of the conversation that follows. Also, the post refers to several images and diagrams that provide further detail on the theory, which are not included in this summary​1​.




does Jovialis' theory make sense with history, prehistory, and genetic studies?


ChatGPT
Jovialis' theory appears to align reasonably well with what is currently known about the historical, prehistorical, and genetic context of the Mediterranean region.


Historical and Prehistorical Context: Southern Italy, or Magna Graecia as it was known, was extensively colonized by Ancient Greeks in the 1st millennium BC, so a connection between Southern Italians and Ancient Greeks makes historical sense. The idea of admixture with the Minoans, an ancient civilization that existed on the island of Crete, also fits within this timeline. The movement of people and cultures around the Mediterranean was common throughout antiquity, leading to a complex tapestry of cultural and genetic exchange.


Genetic Studies: Recent genetic studies have indeed found that Southern Italians show a genetic affinity with Ancient Greeks. This aligns with the historical record of Greek colonization. Additionally, the reference to the Anatolia_BA component (referring to Bronze Age Anatolian genetics) is also in line with genetic studies which have found that the people of the Aegean and Anatolia were highly mobile and intermixed during the Bronze Age.


However, it's important to remember that the interpretation of genetic data can be complex and is often the subject of ongoing research and debate. New archaeological and genetic discoveries can also lead to shifts in our understanding. Furthermore, the specific contributions of various groups (like the Minoans, Steppes populations, or later Eastern Mediterranean influences) to the gene pool of modern Southern Italians, and the timeline of these admixtures, is a nuanced topic that can vary based on the methods and models used in each study. Therefore, while Jovialis' theory is plausible and appears to align with current knowledge, it should be viewed as one interpretation among many.
 
Here's another interesting scenario:

uYdfh9T.png


2diOfod.png




Distance to:Jovialis
1.7996864343.00% Etruscan:_IA:R474:Antonio_2019 + 57.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
2.3271625637.80% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN008 + 62.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
2.6015740167.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 32.80% Prenestini:R435:Antonio_2019
2.6156168471.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 28.80% Daunian:Daunian_Apulia_IA:SAL010:Aneli_2022
2.7289046253.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 47.00% Balkan-Cent-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946
2.7693013228.20% Etruscan.Ceu:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_360-200BCE:VET005 + 71.80% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
2.8659056884.00% Prenestini_o:R437:Antonio_2019 + 16.00% IA_Steppe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian_Steppe:I10944
3.0038017650.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 50.00% Protovillanovan:R1:Antonio_2019
3.1251165429.80% Etruscan_MAS001:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_350-100BCE:MAS001 + 70.20% Prenestini_o:R437:Antonio_2019
3.2027875452.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 48.00% Daunian:Daunian_Apulia_IA:ORD009:Aneli_2022
3.2216039883.40% Prenestini_o:R437:Antonio_2019 + 16.60% IA_Steppe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian-Steppe:I10947
3.2914100133.40% Etruscan.Ceu:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_770-520BCE:CAM002 + 66.60% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.4319761086.80% Prenestini_o:R437:Antonio_2019 + 13.20% NE-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943
3.4411178587.20% Prenestini_o:R437:Antonio_2019 + 12.80% NE-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_lc:I10949
3.4793795342.00% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE:CSN009 + 58.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.6597553237.80% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_533-392BCE:CSN006 + 62.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.6965702636.00% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_804-557BCE:MAS004 + 64.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.7310762367.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 33.00% Daunian:Daunian_Apulia_IA:Aneli_2022:SGR002
3.7920396238.80% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN013 + 61.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.8774027928.80% Etruscan_UDC:C.Italy_Etruscan_UDC_P:Chiostraccio(Siena_Tuscany)_174-53BCE:UDC_P + 71.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.9203890836.00% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ016 + 64.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.9287361840.00% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN005 + 60.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.9404977727.40% IA_Steppe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian-Steppe:I10947 + 72.60% Himera_Soldier:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866
3.9413814860.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 40.00% Balkans_W-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870
3.9960190264.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 36.00% Daunian:Daunian_Apulia_IA:ORD014:Aneli_2022
 
Jovialis said:
Here's another interesting scenario:

uYdfh9T.png


2diOfod.png




Distance to:Jovialis
1.7996864343.00% Etruscan:_IA:R474:Antonio_2019 + 57.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
2.3271625637.80% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN008 + 62.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
2.6015740167.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 32.80% Prenestini:R435:Antonio_2019
2.6156168471.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 28.80% Daunian:Daunian_Apulia_IA:SAL010:Aneli_2022
2.7289046253.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 47.00% Balkan-Cent-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946
2.7693013228.20% Etruscan.Ceu:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_360-200BCE:VET005 + 71.80% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
2.8659056884.00% Prenestini_o:R437:Antonio_2019 + 16.00% IA_Steppe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian_Steppe:I10944
3.0038017650.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 50.00% Protovillanovan:R1:Antonio_2019
3.1251165429.80% Etruscan_MAS001:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_350-100BCE:MAS001 + 70.20% Prenestini_o:R437:Antonio_2019
3.2027875452.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 48.00% Daunian:Daunian_Apulia_IA:ORD009:Aneli_2022
3.2216039883.40% Prenestini_o:R437:Antonio_2019 + 16.60% IA_Steppe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian-Steppe:I10947
3.2914100133.40% Etruscan.Ceu:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_770-520BCE:CAM002 + 66.60% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.4319761086.80% Prenestini_o:R437:Antonio_2019 + 13.20% NE-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943
3.4411178587.20% Prenestini_o:R437:Antonio_2019 + 12.80% NE-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_lc:I10949
3.4793795342.00% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE:CSN009 + 58.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.6597553237.80% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_533-392BCE:CSN006 + 62.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.6965702636.00% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_804-557BCE:MAS004 + 64.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.7310762367.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 33.00% Daunian:Daunian_Apulia_IA:Aneli_2022:SGR002
3.7920396238.80% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN013 + 61.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.8774027928.80% Etruscan_UDC:C.Italy_Etruscan_UDC_P:Chiostraccio(Siena_Tuscany)_174-53BCE:UDC_P + 71.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.9203890836.00% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ016 + 64.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.9287361840.00% Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN005 + 60.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019
3.9404977727.40% IA_Steppe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian-Steppe:I10947 + 72.60% Himera_Soldier:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866
3.9413814860.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 40.00% Balkans_W-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870
3.9960190264.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 36.00% Daunian:Daunian_Apulia_IA:ORD014:Aneli_2022
Click to expand...

Could you please add contemporary central Sicilian samples to the PCA?
 
Modern samples?

Here's an interseting observation:

Distance to:Prenestini_o:R437:Antonio_2019
2.4790822955.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 44.80% Sicani:polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13391
2.5110048914.80% Caucasus_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 85.20% Himera_Greek:Himera_Soldier:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224
2.7166602316.60% Caucasus_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 + 83.40% Himera_Greek:Himera_Soldier:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218
2.7372565967.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 32.80% Daunian:Daunian_Apulia_IA:SAL007:Aneli_2022
2.8313915654.80% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 45.20% Sicani:polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13379
2.8756850457.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 43.00% Sicani:polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13387
2.9378654052.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 48.00% Sicani:polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13376
2.9446043957.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 42.80% Sicani:polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13392
3.0595305158.80% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 41.20% Sicani:polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13389
3.1574490264.40% Himera_Soldier:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 35.60% Himera_Greek:Himera_Soldier:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884
3.1707572159.00% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 41.00% Sicani:polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13381
3.1789286456.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 43.80% Sicani:polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13395
3.1901131182.60% Himera_Greek:Himera_Soldier:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 + 17.40% Caucasus_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951
3.1986476114.60% Caucasus_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 85.40% Himera_Greek:Himera_Soldier:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218
3.2181511848.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 51.80% Himera_Greek:Himera_Soldier:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7223
3.2244059091.20% Himera_Greek:Himera_Soldier:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 + 8.80% IA_Steppe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian-Steppe:I10947
3.2610014155.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 44.80% Sicani:polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13390
3.288452948.20% IA_Steppe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian_Steppe:I10944 + 91.80% Himera_Greek:Himera_Soldier:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945
3.3042237080.80% Himera_Soldier:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 19.20% Himera_Greek:Himera_Civilian:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20167
3.3316743414.40% Etruscan_MAS001:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_350-100BCE:MAS001 + 85.60% Himera_Greek:Himera_Soldier:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945
3.3466316546.80% Himera_Greek:Himera_Civilian:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17878 + 53.20% Himera_Greek:Himera_Civilian:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166
3.3682034688.00% Himera_Soldier:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 12.00% Caucasus_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872
3.3764609155.20% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 44.80% Himera_Greek:Himera_Civilian:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20163
3.4070254654.80% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 45.20% Sicani:Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med_lc:I13128
3.4351689933.80% Latini_o:Latini_o:R850:Antonio_2019 + 66.20% Himera_Greek:Himera_Soldier:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224

I come out as more R850 55% +Etruscan. R437 gets Scani plus R850 instead.
 
Francesco said:
Yes, thanks.
Click to expand...

Will do, when I get a chance.

Something I noticed from the PCA I posted, a couple Himera civilians match with the C6 cluster. I wonder if some represent a local population from Sicily rather than Greek Colonist.
 
Here are all the coordinates compiled for IA and Classical Era samples from all over Italy:

Code: 
Daunian:Apulia_IA:ORD001:Aneli_2022,2.13,0,3.17,1.09,29.5,31.57,0,0.75,9.39,1.76,20.64,0
Daunian:Apulia_IA:ORD004:Aneli_2022,0,0,0,0,44.67,29.85,0,0,0.14,0,22.4,2.95
Daunian:Apulia_IA:ORD006:Aneli_2022,0,0,0,2.54,41.99,25.03,0,0,8.55,0,21.11,0.78
Daunian:Apulia_IA:ORD009:Aneli_2022,4.03,0.65,1.42,0.98,38.29,23.77,0,0,7.95,0,22.52,0.39
Daunian:Apulia_IA:ORD011:Aneli_2022,0,0,0,0,41.49,23.76,0,0,8.92,0.98,24.85,0
Daunian:Apulia_IA:ORD014:Aneli_2022,0,2.06,4.08,0,43.2,28.47,0.29,0,2.97,0,18.93,0
Daunian:Apulia_IA:ORD019:Aneli_2022,1.73,0,0.9,0,38.01,22.88,2.51,0,0,0,33.46,0.52
Daunian:Apulia_IA:SAL001:Aneli_2022,0,0,3.78,3.04,43.72,32.79,0,3.1,2.05,0,11.51,0
Daunian:Apulia_IA:SAL003:Aneli_2022,0,0,1.91,0,39.06,17.5,0,0,7.93,0,33.23,0.38
Daunian:Apulia_IA:SAL007:Aneli_2022,4.63,0,0,0,53.35,16.94,0,0,6.74,0,18.34,0
Daunian:Apulia_IA:SAL010:Aneli_2022,4.31,0,0,0.02,45.37,38.34,0,0,0,0,11.95,0
Daunian:Apulia_IA:SAL011:Aneli_2022,8.8,0,0.77,0.26,61.26,14.72,0,0,5.84,0,8.35,0
Daunian:Apulia_IA:SGR002:Aneli_2022,1.02,0.6,2.92,0,45.47,29.36,0,0.66,5.54,0,14.06,0.37
Daunian:Apulia_IA:SGR003:Aneli_2022,2.69,0,1.74,2.68,40.79,15.65,0,1.55,7.31,0,27.6,0
Etruscan:IA:R473:Antonio_2019,1.01,0.23,0.57,0,47.29,22.71,0,0.37,6.95,0.11,20.11,0.66
Etruscan:IA:R474:Antonio_2019,6.73,0,1.43,0.32,39.73,25.66,0,0.13,5.53,0,19.64,0.85
Etruscan_o:IA:R475:Antonio_2019,0,0,12.34,0,38.51,11.99,0.78,2.01,11.21,0,22.39,0.77
Latini:IA:R851:Antonio_2019,1.08,0,1.52,0,49.35,25.19,0,0,1.78,0,20.65,0.44
Latini:IA:R1016:Antonio_2019,3.25,1.53,0.94,0,47.98,19.32,1.2,0,3.3,0,22.38,0.1
Latini:IA:R1021:Antonio_2019,1.77,0,0.94,0.76,48.63,23.97,0,0.15,1.54,0,21.8,0.44
Latini_o:IA:R850:Antonio_2019,7.3,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0,0.43,14.77,0,40.1,0
Protovillanovan:IA:R1:Antonio_2019,4.87,1.72,1.2,0,34.92,26.41,0,0,5.74,0,24.51,0.64
Villanovan:IA:R1015:Antonio_2019,1.64,0.26,2.62,0.01,48.21,21.4,0,0,5.06,0,20.64,0.16
Prenestini:IA:R435:Antonio_2019,4.6,0.48,1.22,0,46.59,28.92,0.06,0,4.14,0,13.22,0.77
Prenestini_o:IA:R437:Antonio_2019,5.89,0,2.61,0,32.88,11.52,0,0,11.42,0.47,34.68,0.53
Etruscan:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_780-540BCE:CAM001,1.38,0.19,1.2,0,47.62,24.58,0,0,6.88,0,17.87,0.27
Etruscan.CEU:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_770-520BCE:CAM002,4.72,0.03,0,1.59,40.47,34.19,0,0,4.64,0,13.94,0.44
Etruscan:CampigliadeiFoci(Siena_Tuscany)_770-540BCE:CAM003,0.93,0.04,0.79,0,49.21,23.83,0,0,7,0.18,16.98,1.04
Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN001,0.74,0,1.6,0.73,46.5,23.83,0,0,7.19,0,19.25,0.16
Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_380-204BCE:CSN003,0.97,0.01,2,0,49.14,21.97,1.05,0,7.95,0.53,15.93,0.45
Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN004,1.49,0,2.17,0.71,51.75,19.41,0.13,0,5.2,0,18.21,0.93
Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN005,1.48,0,4.65,0,39.23,28.19,0.65,0,6.11,0.54,19.16,0
Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_533-392BCE:CSN006,3.62,0,0,1.53,45.77,24.02,0.29,0,4.9,0,19.6,0.27
Etruscan:C.Italy_Etruscan_undated:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN007,0,0,0,0.5,50.29,20.45,0,0,10.86,0,17.91,0
Etruscan::Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN008,4.93,0,0,0.4,43.71,27.95,0,0,4.16,0,18.84,0
Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany)_427-265BCE:CSN009,2.52,0,2.03,0,39.86,27.95,0,0,2.52,0.43,23.93,0.75
Etruscan:Casenovole(Grosseto_Tuscany):CSN013,4.87,0,0.54,0,45.93,21.96,0.41,0,5.92,0.25,19.55,0.57
Etruscan:Chiusi(Siena_Tuscany)_805-774BCE:ETR005,2,0,0,1.54,45.54,20.52,0.17,0,9.35,1.02,18.73,1.13
Etruscan:MaglianoinToscana(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:MAG001,0.84,0,0,0,47.05,24.88,0.37,0.08,3.46,0.47,22.84,0.02
Etruscan_MAS001:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_350-100BCE:MAS001,7.2,0.84,4.18,0,26.73,30.23,1.6,0.6,6.25,1.12,21.08,0.18
Etruscan:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_804-557BCE:MAS004,1.12,0,0.85,0,44.63,29.23,0,0,1.36,1.35,21.46,0
Etruscan:PoggioRenzo(Siena_Tuscany)_794-543BCE:PRZ001,1.55,0.11,0,0,48.41,23.78,0,0,6.08,0.13,19.22,0.71
Etruscan:PoggioRenzo(Siena_Tuscany)_772-436BCE:PRZ002,0,0,2.6,0.54,47.1,27.43,0,0,4.06,1.06,17.2,0
Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_103BCE-54CE:TAQ002,0,0,1.15,0.26,46.51,23.88,0,0,5.81,0,21.27,1.12
Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_:TAQ004,1.71,0.66,0.95,0.36,48.5,23.89,0,0,5.59,0,17.87,0.48
Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_:TAQ006,1.18,0,3.59,0,42.96,25.05,0.15,0,2.83,0,24.24,0
Etruscan.Afr:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_391-207BCE:TAQ007,3.25,0.65,8.19,0,33.36,6.55,0.82,0,13.72,0.07,31.87,1.52
EtruscanTarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ008,4.27,1.3,0.28,0.84,49.67,21.5,0,0,3.99,0,17.53,0.63
Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ010,0,0,1.32,0.05,48.43,24.81,0.71,0,4.04,0,20.41,0.24
Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ012,3.32,0,1.79,0,51.8,17.96,0.72,0,7.3,0,16.79,0.33
Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ013,2.83,1.64,1.78,0,46.46,21.33,0,0,6.68,0,19.04,0.23
Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_346-51BCE:TAQ015,1.72,0,2.42,0,46.31,21.99,0,0,6.46,0.63,19.66,0.81
Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio):TAQ016,2.43,0,1.67,0,46.91,24.12,0.84,0,5.34,0,18.06,0.63
Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_358-98BCE:TAQ019,0.49,0,2.18,0,47.66,24.5,0.17,0,5.48,0.04,19.27,0.21
Etruscan.Afr:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_396-216BCE:TAQ023,0.11,0,9.86,0,38.6,11.68,0.88,1.34,10.18,0,26.04,1.31
Etruscan:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_356-96BCE:TAQ024,1.55,0.2,4.01,0.27,46.92,21.83,0,0.36,4.57,0,20.29,0
Etruscan_UDC_P:Chiostraccio(Siena_Tuscany)_174-53BCE:UDC_P,0,0,4.31,0,52.14,29.39,0,0,0.89,0,13.22,0.04
Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_750-406BCE:VET001,1.52,0,2.24,1.15,42.15,23.87,0,1.18,6.3,0,21.57,0
Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:VET002,0.77,1.24,2.59,0,48.74,18.77,0,0,7.8,0.08,20.03,0
Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_800-590BCE:VET003_4,1.33,0,2.66,0,47.08,21.2,0.25,0.26,7.04,0.15,20.03,0
Etruscan.CEU:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_360-200BCE:VET005,7.72,0.55,0,0,43.13,37.83,0,1.41,1.61,0,7.74,0
Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_806-599BCE:VET007,0,0,2.57,0.68,51.02,20.09,0.22,0,6.74,0.42,17.63,0.63
Etruscan.Afr:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_372-204BCE:VET008,0.41,0,8.27,0,38.29,9.06,0,1.75,12.78,0.04,28.42,0.99
Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_788-545BCE:VET010,0,0,4.61,0.76,48.22,21.92,0.27,0,3.53,0,20.12,0.57
Etruscan:Vetulonia(Grosseto_Tuscany)_790-550BCE:VEU001,0,0,1.86,2.69,45.76,22.07,0,0.83,3.79,0,23.01,0
Etruscan:Volterra(Pisa_Tuscany)_200-60BCE:VOL001,0.94,0,1.77,0,44.5,24.66,0.61,0.03,5.61,0,21.4,0.48
NE-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943,6.79,0.37,0,0.92,21.19,57.66,0.62,0.33,0,0,9.61,2.53
IA_Steppe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian_Steppe:I10944,19.43,8.86,0,0,13.55,39.47,3.66,0,0,2.79,10.41,1.84
Himera_Med:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945,3.57,0.02,3.49,0,34.37,8.7,1.25,0,9.75,0.51,37.33,1
Balkans_Cent-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946,4.41,1.02,1.4,0,37.29,25.51,0,0.03,5.81,0,22.6,1.93
IA_Steppe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian-Steppe:I10947,20.89,7.77,0,0,16.02,36.06,2.87,0,0.21,3.75,10.03,2.41
Himera_Med:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948,2.23,0,3.8,0.53,38.48,7.24,0.06,0,12.5,0.59,33.38,1.19
NE-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_lc:I10949,6.52,0.96,0.67,1.11,21.44,58.70,1.06,0,0,0,8.60,0.94
Balkans_Cent-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10950,0.64,0.2,0.03,0,35.51,26.68,0.18,0,6.23,1.88,27.3,1.35
Caucasus_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951,23.6,0.29,0,1.13,6.78,17.16,0.89,0,0.67,0,47.35,2.14
Himera_Med:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952,0.81,0,3.09,0.31,35.29,10.84,0,0,10.74,0,37.6,1.32
Sicani:Baucina_MtFalcone_Med:I13125,0,0.35,5.27,0,41.8,7.79,0.1,0,9.96,1.44,32.71,0.59
Sicani:Baucina_MtFalcone_Med_lc:I13128,0,0,1.38,1.47,45.65,10.33,0,0,11.78,0,27.13,2.26
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13376,0,0,4.21,0.09,44.55,12.46,0,0,9,0.26,28.89,0.54
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13377,0,0,1.74,0.21,46.73,7.54,0,0.76,9.69,0,32.49,0.84
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13378,0,0,2.81,0.38,48.36,6.93,0,0,8.92,0,31.58,1.02
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13379,0,0,2.29,0,47.24,10.3,0,0,9.39,0,30.2,0.59
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13380,0.21,0,3.79,0.12,48.45,7.89,0.25,0.04,7.68,0.47,30.78,0.32
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13381,0,0,4.87,0,49.38,9.59,0,0,7.7,0.15,28.29,0.02
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13382,0.25,0,3.63,0,46.84,8.92,0,0.18,12.01,0.34,27.82,0
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13383,0,0.03,3.17,0,47.7,7.93,0,0,8.73,0.36,31.3,0.79
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13384,0,0.3,3.55,0,46.81,8.32,0,0,8.6,0,31.64,0.78
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13385,0,0,2.48,0.94,47.58,7.08,0,0,10.14,0,30.75,1.02
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13386,0,0,1.94,0.27,47.25,8,0.59,0,9.24,0.05,31.89,0.78
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13387,0,0.07,2.21,0.53,48.19,10.15,0,0,10.31,0,27.84,0.69
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13389,0,0,3.04,0,49.6,8.53,0,0,8.09,0.09,29.15,1.5
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13390,0,0,4.1,0.29,46.91,9.39,0,0,9.39,0,29.1,0.82
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13391,0,0,2.63,0.13,47,11.62,0,0.36,8.09,0,29.31,0.86
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13392,0,0,4.24,0.3,47.8,10.68,0.42,0,8.82,0,27.18,0.56
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13393,0,0,4.23,0.2,48.3,7.96,0,0,6.4,0.02,31.83,1.04
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13394,0,0,3.23,0.41,47.06,8.15,0.36,0,12.49,0,27.55,0.76
Sicani:Polizzello_Med:I13395,0,0,2.79,0.15,47.82,9.07,0,0.02,10.26,0,28.98,0.9
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I17432,0,0.13,3.96,1.03,47.81,6.96,0,0,8.93,0.32,29.64,1.22
Himera_Med:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866,1.68,0,1.94,0,32.63,9.06,0,0,13.94,0.50,39.80,0.44
Balkans_W-Europe_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870,4.02,0,0,0,36.81,31.61,0,0,7.69,0,19.87,0
Caucasus_Merc:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872,35.97,3.24,0,0,5.40,10.51,0,1.79,8.09,0,35,0
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17878,7.68,0,2.45,0.39,42.04,4.78,0,0,15.54,0,27.11,0
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17879,10.6,0.42,0,0,33.53,0,12.83,0,18.24,0,24.39,0
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17881,8.56,0,10.82,1.79,35.00,0,0,0,8.36,6.78,28.69,0
Himera_Med:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884,13.72,0,5.57,0,31.10,5.86,0,0,12.13,0,31.61,0
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17887,6.04,0,2.01,0,48,1.93,0,0.5,0,0,41.51,0
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20160,0,3.56,0,0,48.09,6.29,0,0,0,0,40.21,1.85
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20161,8.17,0,0,0,48.11,0.15,0,0,18.81,5.19,19.56,0
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20162,0.54,4.57,4.04,0,38.38,6.06,1.58,1.42,12.16,0,31.24,0
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20163,0,0,1.01,0,44.03,15.69,0,0,9.47,0,25.85,3.95
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166,1.3,0,2.27,0,24.86,17.92,0,0,13.05,0,40.39,0.21
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20167,25.91,2.37,0,0,32.61,10.08,0,0,2.47,0,26.56,0
Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20168,3.15,0,5.53,0,27.61,10.89,1.03,0,8.76,5.28,37.74,0
Himera_Med:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217,3.47,0,3.7,1.5,36.68,8.46,0,0,10.54,0,34.73,0.93
Himera_Med:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218,1.53,0.56,1.25,0,38.25,9.27,0,0.74,13.01,0.56,33.99,0.85
Himera_Med:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219,0,0,2.62,0,34.85,9.15,0,0,11.07,0.18,40.95,1.18
Himera_Med:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7221,3.06,0.08,1.62,0.41,29.82,7.16,0,0,11.3,0.78,44.15,1.62
Himera_Med:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7223,0.26,0.14,2.97,0.87,41.92,13.23,0.2,0,10.42,0,28.22,1.77
Himera_Med:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224,0.86,0,2.28,0.62,37.93,12.11,1.09,0,9.92,0,33.83,1.36
Himera_Med:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7225,0.92,0,2.71,0.52,43.93,8.64,0,0,7.8,0.99,33.38,1.1
 
Jovialis said:
Will do, when I get a chance.
Something I noticed from the PCA I posted, a couple Himera civilians match with the C6 cluster. I wonder if some represent a local population from Sicily rather than Greek Colonist.
Click to expand...
Yes, some Himera civilians are more "Caucasus shifted" than the average mycenean profile. My hypothesis here is a little bit different from yours, but I don't have a strong opinion on the matter and I'm ready to change my mind: I believe that those samples are representative of the Classical Greek profile, a bit more CHG rich than their mycenean predecessor.
It seems to me that the C6 cluster could be almost incapsulated in the broader Himera civilians cluster, composed by Sicanian and Greeks: if so, at Himera we are seeing the very origin of the C6 cluster, by the interaction of Sicanian tribes and Greeks colonists (the latter seem to have been a stronger demographic impact).
Of course, other movements of people should be taken in to account, but I believe that the Iron Age /Classical age greek colonization and its interaction with the the italic world it's the core of the C6 cluster.
 
Thanks. Are Himera battle_med samples the same labeled as Himera civilians in the previous PCA? Even the two outliers from Iron Age Latium resembles this hypothetical Iron Age Greek profile.
 
Francesco said:
Yes, some Himera civilians are more "Caucasus shifted" than the average mycenean profile. My hypothesis here is a little bit different from yours, but I don't have a strong opinion on the matter and I'm ready to change my mind: I believe that those samples are representative of the Classical Greek profile, a bit more CHG rich than their mycenean predecessor.
It seems to me that the C6 cluster could be almost incapsulated in the broader Himera civilians cluster, composed by Sicanian and Greeks: if so, at Himera we are seeing the very origin of the C6 cluster, by the interaction of Sicanian tribes and Greeks colonists (the latter seem to have been a stronger demographic impact).
Of course, other movements of people should be taken in to account, but I believe that the Iron Age /Classical age greek colonization and its interaction with the the italic world it's the core of the C6 cluster.
Click to expand...

That's a sound theory imho.

If anything perhaps this dynamic served to maintain the genetic structure of C6.

We see a Balkan and Aegean influence on the Bronze Age Southern Italian cultures consistently throughout the archeological record. Magna Grecia may have been more of the same with this dynamic perhaps?

Basically,

Proto-Villanovan + EBA C5-like groups establish C6 in the BA-IA. Followed Incoming Italic/Etruscan + Greco-Anatolian in the Classical era that bring similar genetic input. That could explain why South Italy is on a cline from C6 to C5.
 
Francesco said:
Thanks. Are Himera battle_med samples the same labeled as Himera civilians in the previous PCA? Even the two outliers from Iron Age Latium resembles this hypothetical Iron Age Greek profile.
Click to expand...

Here it is with civilian and soldiers separated for Himera:

5rbj8H7.png
 
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