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Thread: Y-DNA of Greeks

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    Y-DNA of Greeks

    Macedonia and Thrace | Epirus and Thessaly | Peloponnese and Central Greece | Mainland Greece | Crete | East Aegean |
    I: 22,3% | 13,7% | 13,4% | 16,7% | 12,4% | 12,3% |
    R1a: 19,9% | 11,8% | 10,6% | 14% | 9,6% | 7,8% |
    R1b: 14,2% | 12,1% | 21,1% | 16,1% | 15,3% | 24,2% |
    G: 3,3% | 4,6% | 3,5% | 3,7% | 8,7% | 8,3% |
    J1: 3,3% | 3,4% | 1,6% | 2,6% | 4,9% | 5,3% |
    J2: 15,7% | 20,2% | 20,6% | 18,8% | 34,7% | 19,3% |
    E: 20,5% | 34,2% | 26,8% | 26,3% | 9% | 20,1% |
    E-V13:16,5% | 31% | 24% | 23,3% | 6,6% | 16% |
    Other:0,8% | ----- | 2,4% | 1,6% | 2,9% | 0,7% |

    We can see easily the slavic distribution on the dna of the greeks,especially in macedonia and thrace.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Macedonia and Thrace | Epirus and Thessaly | Peloponnese and Central Greece | Mainland Greece | Crete | East Aegean |
    I: 22,3% | 13,7% | 13,4% | 16,7% | 12,4% | 12,3% |
    R1a: 19,9% | 11,8% | 10,6% | 14% | 9,6% | 7,8% |
    R1b: 14,2% | 12,1% | 21,1% | 16,1% | 15,3% | 24,2% |
    G: 3,3% | 4,6% | 3,5% | 3,7% | 8,7% | 8,3% |
    J1: 3,3% | 3,4% | 1,6% | 2,6% | 4,9% | 5,3% |
    J2: 15,7% | 20,2% | 20,6% | 18,8% | 34,7% | 19,3% |
    E: 20,5% | 34,2% | 26,8% | 26,3% | 9% | 20,1% |
    E-V13:16,5% | 31% | 24% | 23,3% | 6,6% | 16% |
    Other:0,8% | ----- | 2,4% | 1,6% | 2,9% | 0,7% |

    We can see easily the slavic distribution on the dna of the greeks,especially in macedonia and thrace.
    What sources is this breakdown based off of??

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    The Slavic YDna of Macedonia and Thrace seems impossibly high if the Greeks from Pontus and Asia Minor are included and even without them it seems quite high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    The Slavic YDna of Macedonia and Thrace seems impossibly high if the Greeks from Pontus and Asia Minor are included and even without them it seems quite high.
    Honestly it may not be. Of course it depends on the sample size, but I do recall some time back people posting a number of references to native Northern Greeks(not including Greeks from Pontus & Asia Minor) had around 40% Slavic Y-DNA. or I2a/R1a(which is at least majority Slavic).

    However, keep in mind, Albanians and Vlachs also carry R1a/I2a. So it is very possible some of it is from more medieval Albanian/Vlach migrations, or at least founder effects among assimilated Slavs. So I doubt it is exclusively Slavic in the strict sense, or recent for that matter.

    My region of Okshtun Valley has very little Slavic autosomal admixture, and yet 80% of all the clans are R1a. Yet our founder clade appears to be in the region for 600 years roughly, all from 1 man.

    So it is important to consider the possibility that a big chunk of it in Northern Greeks could be due to founder effects/bottlnecks as opposed to some rich Slavic Y-DNA diversity.

    How is the Greek DNA project doing in their efforts?

    I feel aside from the Albanian and Serbian DNA projects, not many other Balkan/South Euro groups are growing/doing any deep testing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    I feel aside from the Albanian and Serbian DNA projects, not many other Balkan/South Euro groups are growing/doing any deep testing.
    I think it's very sad, I really would've liked to see a dedicated Greek Y-DNA project because they're the closest to us Albanians genetically (I believe both pre and post Arvanite/Albanian immigration). For sure also the most interesting people in the Balkans together with the Albanians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    What sources is this breakdown based off of??
    The sources are from a book that is made by Konstantinos Triantafyllides.He is α greek geneticist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fustan View Post
    I think it's very sad, I really would've liked to see a dedicated Greek Y-DNA project because they're the closest to us Albanians genetically (I believe both pre and post Arvanite/Albanian immigration). For sure also the most interesting people in the Balkans together with the Albanians.
    Being a member of some quite big facebook groups on Greek genetics I have to say that unfortunately many are mostly focused on familial relations/family trees and oral or written family histories. The ones that have done dna tests are focusing and commenting mainly on their Ancestry or 23andMe ethnicity estimates. Relatively few really know that they can download and use their raw dna data with other platforms...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fustan View Post
    I think it's very sad, I really would've liked to see a dedicated Greek Y-DNA project because they're the closest to us Albanians genetically (I believe both pre and post Arvanite/Albanian immigration). For sure also the most interesting people in the Balkans together with the Albanians.
    Yes i want to see a greek y-dna project too.We are the closest population to albanians because of arvanites migration and illyrian admixture with the greeks in the ancient times.There is greek dna too in albania.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    The sources are from a book that is made by Konstantinos Triantafyllides.He is α greek geneticist.
    this one ?
    https://www.politeianet.gr/books/978...ellinon-307899

    if the table of YDna results is his work the exclusion of Pontic and Asia Minor Greeks from Macedonia and Thrace/their exclusion altogether is really disappointing IMHO especially considering he is of such extraction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    this one ?
    https://www.politeianet.gr/books/978...ellinon-307899

    if the table of YDna results is his work the exclusion of Pontic and Asia Minor Greeks from Macedonia and Thrace/their exclusion altogether is really disappointing IMHO especially considering he is of such extraction.
    Because the book its educational also has many version and upgrades.
    try find the latest ones




    Democriteian UTh also has made quite enough search with Paschou and others.
    Do not know if publish a book

    Also a lot of search has been done by the Stamatogiannopoulos ( they are 2) in USA and many times cooperate with Lazarides
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    E-V13 seems to be consistent in Mainland Greeks ranging from 20 up to 35% in some regions.

    I hope we get aDNA from Classical Greeks to see the big picture, i expect E-V13 to enter the scene during Bronze to Iron Age transition with the Eastern Urnfielders there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fustan View Post
    I think it's very sad, I really would've liked to see a dedicated Greek Y-DNA project because they're the closest to us Albanians genetically (I believe both pre and post Arvanite/Albanian immigration). For sure also the most interesting people in the Balkans together with the Albanians.
    I agree wholeheartedly. It is a shame they don't make greater efforts toward growing the project. Taking a basic Y-DNA assignment can be pretty misleading when taking into account all the possible subclades they can belong to, which have their own stories. There was one Greek L1029 on ftdna that actually belongs to that Tosk cluster R-FT205939. So we at least have one example of a Greek belonging to a medieval Albanian expansion, that is only distantly Slavic in the early medieval. There was also an Arberesh added recently to this clade as well, but he did not pay, so the sample was removed.

    Rrenjet recently tested an Arberesh who was R-M458. This is why deep testing is so important, due to how many cultures lineages can get shuffled through over the last 2 thousand years. I even have J2b-L283 Greek matches on 23andme that are almost certainly connected to Arvanites.

    I think the Macedonian project experiences some growth would be nice too. The overlap with Greeks, and North Macedonians is significant, so deeper testing would really help us confirm what percentage of their lineages are related to us, and even what percentage of their Slavic Y-DNA is more recently Albanian/Vlach/Slavic. Or even Greek specific founder effects.

    I recently tested a Greek Peloponnesian through YSEQ that is basal R-L1029, so he likely forms a new haplotype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Being a member of some quite big facebook groups on Greek genetics I have to say that unfortunately many are mostly focused on familial relations/family trees and oral or written family histories. The ones that have done dna tests are focusing and commenting mainly on their Ancestry or 23andMe ethnicity estimates. Relatively few really know that they can download and use their raw dna data with other platforms...
    I wish more people were aware that AncestryDNA can give a generally deep accurate assignment using morely predictor. Even when I was no call for M458 due to founder effects, morely predicted accurately that I was R-L1029 with my ancestryDNA file. Maybe you can make a post on the Greek groups on facebook instructing AncestryDNA testers how to do so? It would be a great, and free way to compile Y-DNA statistics for those less enthusiastic about deeper testing/paying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly. It is a shame they don't make greater efforts toward growing the project. Taking a basic Y-DNA assignment can be pretty misleading when taking into account all the possible subclades they can belong to, which have their own stories. There was one Greek L1029 on ftdna that actually belongs to that Tosk cluster R-FT205939. So we at least have one example of a Greek belonging to a medieval Albanian expansion, that is only distantly Slavic in the early medieval. There was also an Arberesh added recently to this clade as well, but he did not pay, so the sample was removed.

    Rrenjet recently tested an Arberesh who was R-M458. This is why deep testing is so important, due to how many cultures lineages can get shuffled through over the last 2 thousand years. I even have J2b-L283 Greek matches on 23andme that are almost certainly connected to Arvanites.

    I think the Macedonian project experiences some growth would be nice too. The overlap with Greeks, and North Macedonians is significant, so deeper testing would really help us confirm what percentage of their lineages are related to us, and even what percentage of their Slavic Y-DNA is more recently Albanian/Vlach/Slavic. Or even Greek specific founder effects.

    I recently tested a Greek Peloponnesian through YSEQ that is basal R-L1029, so he likely forms a new haplotype.
    According to my research,i can say that arvanites have 40-50% albanian ancestry.I just used vahaduo to see albanian admixture to places that arvanites settled.Also,i used the greek census of 1907 to see the percentages of Arvanitic population.
    Last edited by Kari; 15-07-22 at 19:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    According to my research,i can say that arvanites have 40-50% albanian ancestry.I just used vahaduo to see albanian admixture to places that arvanites settled.Also,i used the greek census of 1907 to see the percentages of Arvanitic population.
    Can you share your model/populations used ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    According to my research,i can say that arvanites have 40-50% albanian ancestry.I just used vahaduo to see albanian admixture to places that arvanites settled.Also,i used the greek census of 1907 to see the percentages of Arvanitic population.
    Through research I discovered that my maternal grandfather was fully Arvanite and even with a 1/4 Arvanite (the rest standard Peloponnesian) I tend to cluster with Southern Albanians and have numerous matches with folks from Korce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Macedonia and Thrace | Epirus and Thessaly | Peloponnese and Central Greece | Mainland Greece | Crete | East Aegean |
    I: 22,3% | 13,7% | 13,4% | 16,7% | 12,4% | 12,3% |
    R1a: 19,9% | 11,8% | 10,6% | 14% | 9,6% | 7,8% |
    R1b: 14,2% | 12,1% | 21,1% | 16,1% | 15,3% | 24,2% |
    G: 3,3% | 4,6% | 3,5% | 3,7% | 8,7% | 8,3% |
    J1: 3,3% | 3,4% | 1,6% | 2,6% | 4,9% | 5,3% |
    J2: 15,7% | 20,2% | 20,6% | 18,8% | 34,7% | 19,3% |
    E: 20,5% | 34,2% | 26,8% | 26,3% | 9% | 20,1% |
    E-V13:16,5% | 31% | 24% | 23,3% | 6,6% | 16% |
    Other:0,8% | ----- | 2,4% | 1,6% | 2,9% | 0,7% |

    We can see easily the slavic distribution on the dna of the greeks,especially in macedonia and thrace.
    What's the sample size for that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by peloponnesian View Post
    What's the sample size for that?
    I took these from a book that was created by a greek geneticist.So,i dont know the sample size

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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Can you share your model/populations used ?
    I must find a good census to make my research more accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    I must find a good census to make my research more accurate.
    I meant the source populations/coordinates used with vahaduo

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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    I meant the source populations/coordinates used with vahaduo
    Unfortunately,there is no sample for arvanites.I used a research about the albanian dna in argolis and corinthia and i saw a census of 1907.Thats how i did it.Τhis research is at an experimental stage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    I meant the source populations/coordinates used with vahaduo
    Unfortunately,ther is no arvanite sample.I just made a research about the albanian dna in argolis and corinthia and i saw the greek census of 1907.This research is at anm experimental stage.

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