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Thread: Is anthrogenica.com gone?

  1. #326
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    Palermo -

    Reich publishing is hardly a bid deal, especially given the echo chamber approach within academia. Who is going to hold Reich to accountability when he is the ''expert'' ? Only real people from the real world, not so-called 'academics''.




    I can verify all my claims on Reich


    (a) Reich's models are false constructs based on coarse-grained genome-wide analysis . They lack basic sanity checks and constraints from uniparental data & archaeology.
    This is not even about PIE , this is about his entire approach. He also generated a false narrative about the Neolithic in northern & western Europe based on the same ex oriente Lux model which he blanket applies to all of Europe, instead of limiting it to southern Europe where it would actually be correct. This same for the western steppe - Reich & other academics from the Echo Chamber invent an Asian migration to propel said narrative.
    But it's bogus


    the qpADM best model for Yamnaya is
    Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic ; Russia_Khvalynsk_Eneolithic ; Ukraine_Globular_Amphora
    % coefficient 0.604 0.287 0.110


    In Turn, Progress (Steppe Enolithic) is CHG + EHG + WSHG


    There is no migration from an imaginary ''southern Arc' to the steppe, and certainly nothing to do with PIEs.
    The CHG arrived 6000 bc & even earlier, and related to fisher-hunter-gatherers from the Volga.
    Majkop was ousted from the region, and are a cultural dead-end & have no relevance to the debate
    The entire Asian homeland is based on fudged stats and dubious word-statistics by some ''linguists"' who insist on claiming PIE is 9000 years old


    - fudging sample attribution
    For ex: Reich and his team presented an entire cohort of Iberian data as "Bell Beaker'', when they have absolutely no association with bell Beaker artefacts. This inturn generated a false narrative which supported the broken ''out of Iberia'' model.
    I can provide a detailed breakdown if req.


    - political pressures
    refer to pp 135-136 in his book. mass migration is ok as long as it comes from outside of Europe & points to consistent turnovers in Europe, esp central Europe.......because Nazis & central Europeans are bad. Rather than sticking to science, Reich is virtue signalling & has taking it upon himself to ride the white horse of political correctness

  2. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinaric Superman View Post
    Jovialis

    And who are you exactly ? a mod in a silo ?
    obviously not smart enough to understand sarcastic bend on a name . So drop the virtue signalling & sit down




    Yes I have a PhD and understand everything better that Reich
    Wow that sounds like a little bit of hubris. I guess I am going to have to pay careful attention to the author affiliations on publications in journals like Nature and Science Advances, etc. to look for Australian Geneticist who know more than Reich.

  3. #328
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    Palermo


    Yeah, not everyone can be a sicophant, some people can think critically & analyse the data for themselves.
    Australians keep it real.

  4. #329
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dinaric Superman View Post
    Jovialis

    Yes I have a MD, MSc, PhD, and am in expert in the field and understand everything better that Reich.
    And who are you exactly ? obviously not smart enough to understand sarcastic bend on a name . So drop the virtue signalling & sit down pal
    Are you sure this isn't the true sarcasm? Where did you get those from, clown college? There's no way in hell an academic would hold your views. Clearly you're a t-roll, first you have a Ph.D. then you have these other degrees after editing your post. You're not very smart at deception, are you? Correction, you are not very smart. Period.


    Disrespect for fellow members and moderation has gone on far enough. If you people are going to act like thugs, I am going to hit you with the ban hammer.

  5. #330
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Many of you are already persona non grata interlopers on our website. Keep in mind, anthrogenica is gone, so all you have left is apricity as an alternative if you are booted from here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    Ok dude. Let's take what academics say at face value.

    David Anthony in 2019 "PIE originated in EHGs"

    David Reich in 2022 "No"

    Who am I supposed to believe? These people change their minds every 3 years.
    Reich is not an amateur or genome blogger that would assert something on a whim. Like a true scientist he requires big evidence to make big claims. EHG still has a big role in Yamnaya ethnogenesis

    Anyways, there will be hundreds of new ancient samples many of them being high coverage. I noticed there’s additional information posted at www.eurasiandna.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Are you sure this isn't the true sarcasm? Where did you get those from, clown college? There's no way in hell an academic would hold your views. Clearly you're a t-roll, first you have a Ph.D. then you have these other degrees after editing your post. You're not very smart at deception, are you? Correction, you are not very smart. Period.
    Disrespect for fellow members and moderation has gone on far enough. If you people are going to act like thugs, I am going to hit you with the ban hammer.
    Sadly hobbyists who don’t know better pay attention to nonsensical claims like his even if he has no real evidence to back his position . Also Slandering scientists does not seem to be an issue for people like him

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    David Anthony agrees with David Reich, dude. Yes, minds change with new data, that's how science works.


    Again, you think the head of the archaeogenetics Department at Harvard would assert such a claim without evidence to back it up? You people are basing your beliefs on already published data, when he has over 700+ new samples we haven't even seen yet. Are you going to discount new and undisputable information when it comes out?


    This is what is going to happen, the field will move forward with these new discoveries, and you will ultimately become a hyper-minority.
    Except I never disagreed with David Reich, did I? You are having arguments in your head with imaginary people.

    All I said, is I don't take what these people say as dogma, as archeogenetics is a new field and there is a lot of trial and error. You turned it into some "high iq" nonsense arguments, without even knowing who the people commenting on it are, how much time they've spent looking at problems, what their educational background is, etc... All it is, is academics = good, everyone else = bad. That's not how reality works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Many of you are already persona non grata interlopers on our website. Keep in mind, anthrogenica is gone, so all you have left is apricity as an alternative if you are booted from here.
    Well, the problem with anthrogenica was his stupid moderation, don't act as they did, don't become an anthrogenica bis but with a different agenda. There were many valuables members in here. Hope they don't get restricted to the mike discord where only one agenda is allowed because else you're obviously a troll and where 5 stars self sucking skill is mandatory to express how your theories were spot-on all along even if on 200 theories you made, only 1 was approximately right.

  10. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I don't think so, but this is my assumption of their origins:



    Maybe I am wrong, but if I am, I am happy to know the truth.
    Am I misremembering or did Lazaridis model them as Minoans + Steppe + Anatolia? The results show them entirely as Greece + Steppe.

    Target: GRC_Mycenaean
    Distance: 0.0139% / 0.01394717 | R5P
    43.5 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi:I0070___BC_2050___Coverage_53. 10%
    29.3 GRC_Koufonisi_Cycladic_EBA:Kou01___BC_2300___Cover age_89.18%
    12.9 Bell_Beaker_HUN:I7045___BC_2281___Coverage_65.58%
    11.9 KAZ_Taldysay_MLBA2:I4794___BC_1500___Coverage_31.5 5%

    2.4 KEN_Pastoral_N:I8874___BC_1337___Coverage_75.85%

    Target: Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    Distance: 0.0134% / 0.01338843 | R3P
    47.5 GRC_Manika_Helladic_EBA:Mik15___BC_2300___Coverage _94.19%
    37.7 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi:I0070___BC_2050___Coverage_53. 10%
    14.8 RUS_Catacomb:RK4001___BC_2288___Coverage_46.84%

    Target: Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    Distance: 0.0110% / 0.01104775 | R4P
    30.1 GRC_Manika_Helladic_EBA:Mik15___BC_2300___Coverage _94.19%
    30.1 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi:I0070___BC_2050___Coverage_53. 10%
    25.2 GRC_Minoan_Kephala_Petras:Pta08___BC_2300___Covera ge_97.98%
    14.6 RUS_Catacomb:RK4001___BC_2288___Coverage_46.84%
    Last edited by Er Monnezza; 24-07-22 at 16:06.

  11. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchguy View Post
    Well, the problem with anthrogenica was his stupid moderation, don't act as they did, don't become an anthrogenica bis but with a different agenda. There were many valuables members in here. Hope they don't get restricted to the mike discord where only one agenda is allowed because else you're obviously a troll and where 5 stars self sucking skill is mandatory to express how your theories were spot-on all along even if on 200 theories you made, only 1 was approximately right.
    That's the ploy now isn't it? Create a bunch of socks that overtly misbehave and try to paint moderators as hypocritical? I think it falls pretty flat when you see what length he had to go to, outright insults.

  12. #337
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    One of the two scenarios should them as Minoan + about 15% steppe. That's basically the "Northern model". If I recall, that's the one eurogenes thinks is correct as well. So me and him actually do agree on a key issue. The difference is that he thought the steppe would be much higher in Myceneans. I think it is possible that proto-Greeks were higher in steppe, but it was quickly diluted overtime. Or that it was never a big component on to begin with.

  13. #338
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    This website responds faster than Anthrogenica. Every time I open AG's page, I have to wait for about half a minute. AG seems to be running out of money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    Except I never disagreed with David Reich, did I? You are having arguments in your head with imaginary people.
    All I said, is I don't take what these people say as dogma, as archeogenetics is a new field and there is a lot of trial and error. You turned it into some "high iq" nonsense arguments, without even knowing who the people commenting on it are, how much time they've spent looking at problems, what their educational background is, etc... All it is, is academics = good, everyone else = bad. That's not how reality works.
    Obviously I don't think in black and white. Like I said, I came to my theory about minoans before I saw it published in academic papers, by collecting information and collaboration with Maciamo. However, academic papers affirmed the theory. Had overwhelming evidence come out that said otherwise, the theory would be untenable. Hobbyists are indeed valuable, but they do not trump academic consensus by the leading authorities.

  15. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    One of the two scenarios should them as Minoan + about 15% steppe. That's basically the "Northern model". If I recall, that's the one eurogenes thinks is correct as well. So me and him actually do agree on a key issue. The difference is that he thought the steppe would be much higher in Myceneans. I think it is possible that proto-Greeks were higher in steppe, but it was quickly diluted overtime. Or that it was never a big component on to begin with.
    Realize those Helladic samples had higher Steppe particularly the ones from Northeast Greece where there was close proximity to Balkan Bronze age populations. I actually plot really close to one of the Logkas samples (55-33 EEF/IE minor CHG) as would most modern mainlanders (for different reasons) so possibly the Steppe element may not have made it that far South during the Bronze Age. It would make more sense to me (novice op) that the proto Greeks (Pelasgians or whatever) who were most likely centered in the more remote areas of the Peloponnese were harboring high EEF (leftover from the Neolithic).

  16. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by matadworf View Post
    Realize those Helladic samples had higher Steppe particularly the ones from Northeast Greece where there was close proximity to Balkan Bronze age populations. I actually plot really close to one of the Logkas samples (55-33 EEF/IE minor CHG) as would most modern mainlanders (for different reasons) so possibly the Steppe element may not have made it that far South during the Bronze Age. It would make more sense to me (novice op) that the proto Greeks (Pelasgians or whatever) who were most likely centered in the more remote areas of the Peloponnese were harboring high EEF (leftover from the Neolithic).
    [IMG]

    Log 4 and Log 2 are quite different from the Mycenaeans, and even from modern Greeks. Log 4 is not that far from me, in fact.

    Fwiw, I don't see the big difference between Crete and the mainlanders.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    [IMG]

    Log 4 and Log 2 are quite different from the Mycenaeans, and even from modern Greeks. Log 4 is not that far from me, in fact.

    Fwiw, I don't see the big difference between Crete and the mainlanders.

    Actually I'm actually pretty close to Log 4 as well. But here's a comparison:
    Target: Anthony_C_scaled
    Distance: 2.2236% / 0.02223648 | R4P | ADC: 0.25x
    82.0 GRC_Logkas_MBA
    11.0 GRC_Koufonisi_Cycladic_EBA
    5.4 GRC_Mycenaean
    1.6 GRC_Minoan_Kephala_Petras
    Cretans get higher Mycenean and/or Cycladic due to less IE.
    Target: Greek_Crete:Crete8
    Distance: 3.4528% / 0.03452811 | ADC: 0.25x
    45.8 GRC_Logkas_MBA
    27.4 GRC_Mycenaean
    26.8 GRC_Koufonisi_Cycladic_EBA


    Anyway probably wrong thread for this

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Mycenaeans are actually closer to the Early Bronze Age Helladic, rather than the Middle Bronze Age Helladic:

    Distance to: Mycenaean:I9041:Lazaridis_2017
    10.62773259 Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021
    12.24090274 Minoan_Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    12.36176767 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021
    12.36372112 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021
    17.27894962 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021
    25.50182739 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021


    Distance to: Mycenaean:I9033:Lazaridis_2017
    10.90805666 Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021
    15.20189133 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021
    15.27317583 Minoan_Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    15.77477100 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021
    17.19503707 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021
    24.60472719 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021


    Distance to: Mycenaean:I9010:Lazaridis_2017
    7.34801334 Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021
    11.29679158 Minoan_Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    12.03915695 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021
    14.13949787 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021
    19.82541046 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021
    28.40893169 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021


    Distance to: Mycenaean:I9006:Lazaridis_2017
    7.36557533 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021
    8.51929575 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021
    9.86095330 Minoan_Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    13.43415051 Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021
    23.39465324 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021
    31.37220585 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021

  19. #344
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    It’s a shame that there is so much bickering on archaeogenetic forums and not more collaborative discourse.

    “The more I know, the more I realize I know nothing.”
    Last edited by mwauthy; 25-07-22 at 17:43.
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  20. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Mycenaeans are actually closer to the Early Bronze Age Helladic, rather than the Middle Bronze Age Helladic:

    Distance to: Mycenaean:I9041:Lazaridis_2017
    10.62773259 Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021
    12.24090274 Minoan_Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    12.36176767 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021
    12.36372112 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021
    17.27894962 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021
    25.50182739 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021




    Distance to: Mycenaean:I9033:Lazaridis_2017
    10.90805666 Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021
    15.20189133 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021
    15.27317583 Minoan_Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    15.77477100 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021
    17.19503707 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021
    24.60472719 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021


    Distance to: Mycenaean:I9010:Lazaridis_2017
    7.34801334 Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021
    11.29679158 Minoan_Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    12.03915695 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021
    14.13949787 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021
    19.82541046 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021
    28.40893169 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021


    Distance to: Mycenaean:I9006:Lazaridis_2017
    7.36557533 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021
    8.51929575 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021
    9.86095330 Minoan_Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    13.43415051 Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021
    23.39465324 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021
    31.37220585 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021
    Interesting because you would think by the middle Bronze age the IE admixture would have moved South into the Peloponnese.

  21. #346
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I'm not particularly close to any of the Ancient Greeks we have on record for the public. But I seem to fit the pattern:

    Distance to: Jovialis
    9.98820805 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021
    13.83752868 Mycenaean:I9041:Lazaridis_2017
    14.54282297 Armenoi_Crete:I9123:Lazaridis_2017
    15.36065103 Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021
    15.66363304 Mycenaean:I9033:Lazaridis_2017
    17.13985998 Mycenaean:I9010:Lazaridis_2017
    19.50713459 Mycenaean:I9006:Lazaridis_2017
    21.77539896 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021
    22.53049711 Minoan_Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017
    22.58741685 Minoan_Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    22.90438604 Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021
    23.48364324 Minoan_Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    24.30187647 Minoan_Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    24.47227206 Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021
    24.49969183 Minoan_Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    24.92609476 Minoan_Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    25.57013883 Minoan_Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017
    25.60072851 Minoan_Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    25.85438648 Minoan_Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017
    28.19863649 Minoan_Odigitria:I9128:Lazaridis_2017
    28.99869997 Minoan_Odigitria:I9127:Lazaridis_2017




  22. #347
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by matadworf View Post
    Interesting because you would think by the middle Bronze age the IE admixture would have moved South into the Peloponnese.
    Perhaps it didn't make too much of an impact, because the south was already relatively speaking densely populated with Neolithic Greeks, who are pretty much the same as Minoans in terms of genetics.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    I always liked the Anthrogenica forum. I have never been very interested in the debates on IE-origins, so if there was bias there I might have missed it. But my impression was that anyone could offer their theory or opinion without getting banned, as long as you argues based on data. They were strict on some rules, and there were some valuable posters that were banned permanently (no clue why). I actually did not mind that strictness, since it focused discussion on genetics. I also hope the forum stays accessible through snapshots, much info I posted there on Y-haplogroup calls of adna samples, I don't have anywhere else.

  24. #349
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    Join Date
    28-01-14
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    11


    Country: France



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by rafc View Post
    I always liked the Anthrogenica forum. I have never been very interested in the debates on IE-origins, so if there was bias there I might have missed it. But my impression was that anyone could offer their theory or opinion without getting banned, as long as you argues based on data. They were strict on some rules, and there were some valuable posters that were banned permanently (no clue why). I actually did not mind that strictness, since it focused discussion on genetics. I also hope the forum stays accessible through snapshots, much info I posted there on Y-haplogroup calls of adna samples, I don't have anywhere else.
    Speak about population replacement in ancient time, everything is fine ! Speak about population replacement happening now in France, everybody loses their mind !

  25. #350
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-16
    Posts
    1,775

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Rare e-fgc7391
    MtDNA haplogroup
    h3ap

    Country: Uruguay



    3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by rafc View Post
    I always liked the Anthrogenica forum. I have never been very interested in the debates on IE-origins, so if there was bias there I might have missed it. But my impression was that anyone could offer their theory or opinion without getting banned, as long as you argues based on data. They were strict on some rules, and there were some valuable posters that were banned permanently (no clue why). I actually did not mind that strictness, since it focused discussion on genetics. I also hope the forum stays accessible through snapshots, much info I posted there on Y-haplogroup calls of adna samples, I don't have anywhere else.
    Rafc please stay around
    You are one of the guys in anthrogenica
    Who know how to read bam files y calls
    In some of the threads here i posted your y calls
    Of specific individuals
    Regards
    Adam
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

    "Know where you came from and where you are going."

    Direct paternal line : mizrahi from damascus

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