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Thread: Is anthrogenica.com gone?

  1. #351
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    My internet at the house is down and has been since Saturday so since I am in my work office, I thought would check in. I was going to respond to a post directed at me but it seems that is no longer necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rafc View Post
    I always liked the Anthrogenica forum. I have never been very interested in the debates on IE-origins, so if there was bias there I might have missed it. But my impression was that anyone could offer their theory or opinion without getting banned, as long as you argues based on data. They were strict on some rules, and there were some valuable posters that were banned permanently (no clue why). I actually did not mind that strictness, since it focused discussion on genetics. I also hope the forum stays accessible through snapshots, much info I posted there on Y-haplogroup calls of adna samples, I don't have anywhere else.
    That was not my experience, I cited papers, and my detractors cited crappy G25 models, and was shouted down by imbeciles throwing ad hominens at me. Subsequently I was banned. I'm so happy that this pathetic website is gone. You don't see me abusing power, even though it is very ironic that the refugees are here, and I'm in the position of authority.

  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    That was not my experience, I cited papers, and my detractors cited crappy G25 models, and was shouted down by imbeciles throwing ad hominens at me. Subsequently I was banned. I'm so happy that this pathetic website is gone. You don't see me abusing power, even though it is very ironic that the refugees are here, and I'm in the position of authority.
    Just once? I was banned 2 times there :)

    RIP Anthrogenica, no other forum will ever measure up to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matadworf View Post
    Interesting because you would think by the middle Bronze age the IE admixture would have moved South into the Peloponnese.
    The Mycenaeans spread north, not the other way around. They were intimately tied to the Aegean, not the northern regions.






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    Quote Originally Posted by Er Monnezza View Post
    Just once? I was banned 2 times there :)
    RIP Anthrogenica, no other forum will ever measure up to you.
    Funny thing I remember is that they said, they were many forums admins so that way, what happened to Dnaforum will not happen again (like the admin getting bored of the forum or not willing to pay for it anymore or even dying). Well they lied. It seems that admins numbers shrinked as the years go by if i'm not mistaken like that guy mike who went from admin to regular member and many others who I forgot. I wonder why ?

    Even if I didn't like anthrogenica moderation, it's a big loss for the world of ancient dna enthusiast. It would be a good ridance only if the community build up upon a new forum with less schizofrenic and illogical moderation.

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    The forum could easily survive through members donations for sure. Yep it is probably gone. Very bad.
    I think if Eupedia got shot down too we would lose a lot as well especially the Y DNA work of Maciamo.
    Anthrogenica being gone is a big loss. It is what it is.

  7. #357
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    7 members found this post helpful.
    "Eupedia.com was founded in December 2004 by Maciamo Hay.

    Our aim is to create a detailed and informative guide to countries of the European Union, with an emphasis on travel, history, cultural differences, maps, and interesting facts about Europe.

    Since 2009, Eupedia also has a dedicated section for genetics focusing chiefly on European population genetics, historical genetics and genetic genealogy, as well as related fields such as prehistory, archaeology and anthropology."

    18 years, thus far. May the site live on 100 more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Especially in the field of ancient DNA and archaeology, as in history, opinions and interpretations matter a lot, because the facts can be ambiguous or distorted easily. Archaeogenetics primarily sets some limits, as to what's possible and what's not, but inside of the range provided, a lot of different interpretations are possible and these are, regardless if coming from a professional (paid) scientist or layman, primarily opinions.
    Exactly and correct. Peoples put out out of mouth imbecilities faster they think about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Isn't discord just a chat room, or something similar?
    Yea, this is not what I wanted, or WE wanted; I mean AG backup forum with all the threads to read them when you have time for that. Discord is an 'on-line NOW' tool, with little help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I think some of you should join anti-vaxxer/flat-earther forums, you might feel right at home with the anti-intellectualism. Then you can find like minded people who believe all of academia is bias. What joke, it is academic-style decorum to believe hobbyists know better than actual academics. Please, give me a break.
    It is not for the first time in history when peoples/hobbyists launch ideas which were embraced by the academics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to be a geneticist, especially one from a prestigious Ivy-league university. Even more so one who is the head of the research laboratory. The problem with "popular" forums is that it attracts people from all parts of the bell curve. It dilutes the quality of discussion. They can't help themselves, not to be cruel, but they are like dumb animals. They are completely oblivious to their own stupidity. Which is why they argue like we are talking about a sports rather than an inter-disciplinary subject like archeogenetics. Frankly, you need to at least have an IQ of 115 to gather and infer data properly. Which is about 14% of the population. The average doctor has an IQ of 120-130, so now we are in single digits. The fact that people who likely have lower-IQs than those they are raging against is outrageous, and also somewhat amusing, yet sad.
    The problem with those individuals is that they are almost all 'characters' not peoples, theirs preconceived ideas and mental is acting like amyloid plaques' in Alzheimer disease. It makes theirs cognitive horizon to be 'concreted' forever. here you're right. On IQ stuff I tell you it's unreliable measurement because it contain undesirable factors. For example IQ is related, to some degree, with the physiological/organic perception of the brain-body relation, which is NOT scientific. I have a friend with a psychological/ physiological disorder to not be able focus his attention to details but with an incredible intelligence when searching to explain something scientific. And he is an academic with a mediocre IQ. IQ testing MUST radically be changed imho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Are you sure this isn't the true sarcasm? Where did you get those from, clown college? There's no way in hell an academic would hold your views. Clearly you're a t-roll, first you have a Ph.D. then you have these other degrees after editing your post. You're not very smart at deception, are you? Correction, you are not very smart. Period. Disrespect for fellow members and moderation has gone on far enough. If you people are going to act like thugs, I am going to hit you with the ban hammer.
    Fair enough.

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    Nothing about Anthrogenica, we are the veterans also of DNA Forums and the community of genetic genealogists lost a good part of the memory and debates there, the fora are part of our collective intelligence always shared as a group intelligence. I think the owners are responsible for the contents and they had the support of the members, I think they committed a kind of selfish Epistemological Suicide.

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    Today is the first time AG is fully back and accessible.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    AG is back online and they already started to shoot dirt at Angela and Jovialis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
    AG is back online and they already started to shoot dirt at Angela and Jovialis.
    Small-minded pseudo-racists.

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    Finally it's back, I hope we can preserve our history there and here, always.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
    AG is back online and they already started to shoot dirt at Angela and Jovialis.
    Of course they did. They don't want any of you new members to continue to post here or even lurk here, because then you'll just follow their party line.

    What weasels, though. They clearly didn't have the guts to come here and say whatever is on their minds to my face. They say it only where they have the power to ban anyone who responds, or indeed deny access altogether. Reminds me of all the women on twitter who post incendiary or provocative remarks, but deny the ability to respond to all but a select few of their cronies. Not the first time I've noticed that the young men at anthrogenica are not like men used to be.

    If they started out like that, whoever or whatever group bought it is probably worse than DMXX and the old moderators.

    I honestly am glad that some of people's posts are now available to them. I would suggest saving your material to your own files. I wish I had done that with some posts from dna-forums.

    On the other hand, I'm not happy that so much disinformation is now up and can pollute the minds of newbies.

    I hope that if one good thing came out of this it's to let people know there is another site where they can get a different point of view, or express their point of view, no matter what it is, and not fear getting banned. (With the exception of hate speech and insults and foul language, of course)

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Was back online today and now is not anymore. I got a screenshot I needed. And was able to make a post. Somehow people were making posts when it was offline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    "Eupedia.com was founded in December 2004 by Maciamo Hay.
    Our aim is to create a detailed and informative guide to countries of the European Union, with an emphasis on travel, history, cultural differences, maps, and interesting facts about Europe.
    Since 2009, Eupedia also has a dedicated section for genetics focusing chiefly on European population genetics, historical genetics and genetic genealogy, as well as related fields such as prehistory, archaeology and anthropology."
    18 years, thus far. May the site live on 100 more.
    This site is a cesspool of misinformation. And G25 is actually a professional tool based on the SmartPCA method designed by Nick Patterson and others; it just happens to be used by amateurs. You don't like Eurogenes tools because you don't like what they say. Simple as that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil View Post
    This site is a cesspool of misinformation. And G25 is actually a professional tool based on the SmartPCA method designed by Nick Patterson and others; it just happens to be used by amateurs. You don't like Eurogenes tools because you don't like what they say. Simple as that.
    What a ridiculous and extreme statement.
    I would say Anthrogenica is a cesspool of misinformation and Eurogenes gives ridiculous distances for Italians.
    Last edited by Vallicanus; 28-07-22 at 00:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil View Post
    This site is a cesspool of misinformation. And G25 is actually a professional tool based on the SmartPCA method designed by Nick Patterson and others; it just happens to be used by amateurs. You don't like Eurogenes tools because you don't like what they say. Simple as that.
    Can you provide the citation to a paper published in for example Nature, Science Advances, Cell, etc, that documents G25 has been used to model the populations that were analyzed in those respective studies. G25 being designed based on SMARTPCA method (Nick Patterson) does not mean that Nick Patterson endorses or suggest he had a hand in developing it.

    You are trying to justifying your support for G25 by what is referred to in the circles I run in as "name dropping".

    G25, as with any other model developed by non academicians (we are talking about people with training in Mathematics, Statistics, computer science) in my view is only as good as how robust it is to the extant published research. If there are 5, then 10 published papers from various research teams in various leading academic journals that document A and then G25, or Dodecad, or MDLP document B, or C, etc. Then I will defacto question something regarding the non-Professional calculators.

    Now to be fair, I think the G25 Eurogenes is much better than the Old Eurogenes K13/K15 models regarding Southern Europeans. Dodecad, from my perspective, has always produced results that are fairly consistent with what has been published. I would say G25 has in terms of "single distances" performed better for me versus Eurogenes K13/K15. I would add that the problem with the Eurogenes K13/K15 models might not be a problem with the models themselves, but rather, the samples used in those spreadsheets. Regarding G25 and modeling source populations, I have no clear opinion yet. I will note that I only have G25 simulated coordinates.

    As for modeling Southern Italians, Central and Northern as well, It is my view that the Dodecad 12B K8 model that Jovialis produced is the most accurate for me personally, and other individuals that are Americans of Italian ancestry with all of their ancestry from 1 of the 20 political regions of modern Italy as well as those Italians here whose ancestors are ethnically Italian with long standing histories in 1 of those same 20 political regions of Modern Italy. The Jovialis K8 model also matches up with several recent academic papers related to Italian genetics.
    Last edited by Palermo Trapani; 27-07-22 at 23:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil View Post
    This site is a cesspool of misinformation. And G25 is actually a professional tool based on the SmartPCA method designed by Nick Patterson and others; it just happens to be used by amateurs. You don't like Eurogenes tools because you don't like what they say. Simple as that.
    Do you have any info on that southern arc paper? They're really exaggerating at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Can you provide the citation to a paper published in for example Nature, Science Advances, Cell, etc, that documents G25 has been used to model the populations that were analyzed in those respective studies. G25 being designed based on SMARTPCA method (Nick Patterson) does not mean that Nick Patterson endorses or suggest he had a hand in developing it.

    You are trying to justifying your support for G25 by what is referred to in the circles I run in as "name dropping".

    G25, as with any other model developed by non academicians (we are talking about people with training in Mathematics, Statistics, computer science) in my view is only as good as how robust it is to the extant published research. If there are 5, then 10 published papers from various research teams in various leading academic journals that document A and then G25, or Dodecad, or MDLP document B, or C, etc. Then I will defacto question something regarding the non-Professional calculators.

    Now to be fair, I think the G25 Eurogenes is much better than the Old Eurogenes K13/K15 models regarding Southern Europeans. Dodecad, from my perspective, has always produced results that are fairly consistent with what has been published. I would say G25 has in terms of "single distances" performed better for me versus Eurogenes K13/K15. I would add that the problem with the Eurogenes K13/K15 models might not be a problem with the models themselves, but rather, the samples used in those spreadsheets. Regarding G25 and modeling source populations, I have no clear opinion yet. I will note that I only have G25 simulated coordinates.

    As for modeling Southern Italians, Central and Northern as well, It is my view that the Dodecad 12B K8 model that Jovialis produced is the most accurate for me personally, and other individuals that are Americans of Italian ancestry with all of their ancestry from 1 of the 20 political regions of modern Italy as well as those Italians here whose ancestors are ethnically Italian with long standing histories in 1 of those same 20 political regions of Modern Italy. The Jovialis K8 model also matches up with several recent academic papers related to Italian genetics.
    When it comes to ancient DNA, G25 is IMO better. It is something I have observed:
    1.) Iron Age Greek samples (the 2 samples from Iberia) in K12b are closer to LBA Sicilians than to Modern Sicilians which is not the case with G25.
    2.) Daunians plot more in tact in G25 with academic paper than in K12b.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    When it comes to ancient DNA, G25 is IMO better. It is something I have observed:
    1.) Iron Age Greek samples (the 2 samples from Iberia) in K12b are closer to LBA Sicilians than to Modern Sicilians which is not the case with G25.
    2.) Daunians plot more in tact in G25 with academic paper than in K12b.
    ihype02: Ok, for the Daunians I appreciate that information. I wasn't aware of that fact. I am open to that fact for ancient DNA it might be better but I still need more evidence other than the Daunian results you mentioned. One thing might be that the creator of G25 is still active and better updates his spreadsheets as new samples are publicly available (Creater of K12b is no longer active). I think for Dodecad12B, the spreadsheets are only updated when some of the talented Eupedia members here make time to do so (Salento, Jovialis, Pax Augusta, Duarte, Maciamo, etc). Still, I would like to see a what we use to call back in my graduate school days a statistical horse race. Take K12B and G25 and ensure the data spreadsheets have the same ancient samples and then run the models for both and compare to the published paper. If G25 consistently produces results more in line with the published papers relative to K12b, then I would acknowledge that point.

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